jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 30, 2021 12:14:18 GMT -5
How do rappers last longer than singers in the industry??? Literally no rappers die out the same rate as singers Define "last longer." I can name singers who've had hits in their 40s. There are also plenty of rappers who didn't remain relevant in their 40s. |
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Post by nathanalbright on Aug 30, 2021 12:14:31 GMT -5
How do rappers last longer than singers in the industry??? Literally no rappers die out the same rate as singers We're used to people in pop fading fast that we forget that genre artists tend to have much more longevity, because fans are loyal to artists for a long time regardless of whether or not those artists have any pop crossover hits. |
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chanman
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Post by chanman on Aug 30, 2021 12:15:41 GMT -5
Ok somebody has to ask the important question now that Donda is here is Blinding Lights officially done for? Blinding Lights is projected to be #20. Ye (album) got I think 4 or 5 songs in the top 25 but Donda will probably do better since the album is so much bigger. What would be great is if on Donda week Rumors, Peaches & Take My Breath could fall below it giving it some more breathing room but still it looks bleak I see Donda getting maybe 2 Top 25 debuts (Hurricane for sure, and maybe one other) due to the fact it missed one-third of the tracking period. BL should be able to chart one final week in the 21-25 range. It would be fitting if BL's run came to an end with it charting alongside SYT, You Right, TMB, and Hurricane all in the Top 25. Just 2 for Top 25, is that still the case? What's the updated projection??? |
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Groovy
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Post by Groovy on Aug 30, 2021 12:16:56 GMT -5
What are your predictions for Kanye and Drake's album bombs? It's gonna push out alot of songs in the top 40 into recurrency such as Beautiful Mistakes, Famous Friends, Lil Bit, Astronaut in the Ocean, Heat Waves, Without You and Blinding Lights as well as songs that'll miss the YE such as Favorite Crime, My Life and Blame It on You. |
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Aug 30, 2021 12:31:41 GMT -5
I see Donda getting maybe 2 Top 25 debuts (Hurricane for sure, and maybe one other) due to the fact it missed one-third of the tracking period. BL should be able to chart one final week in the 21-25 range. It would be fitting if BL's run came to an end with it charting alongside SYT, You Right, TMB, and Hurricane all in the Top 25. Just 2 for Top 25, is that still the case? What's the updated projection??? I’ll say 4 songs in the Top 25, 11 in the Top 50 (7 in the 26-50 range), and 21 songs overall on the shot 100. BL is definitely on the cusp. It will be 24, 25, or off. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 30, 2021 12:36:04 GMT -5
How do rappers last longer than singers in the industry??? Literally no rappers die out the same rate as singers We're used to people in pop fading fast that we forget that genre artists tend to have much more longevity, because fans are loyal to artists for a long time regardless of whether or not those artists have any pop crossover hits. But even within pop you have artists like Maroon 5, Madonna, Mariah, MJ, etc have long careers including hits in their 40s. Beyonce is still relevant. Not as recent, but pop artists like Elton John, Billy Joel, Cher, Aretha Franklin, etc. had relevant careers decades in. Also Jay-Z didn't really have mainstream success until 1998, so his actual career span in terms of mainstream success isn't that long (when was his last solo hit?). |
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shaz196
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Post by shaz196 on Aug 30, 2021 12:36:42 GMT -5
Donda now holds the top 21 on US Apple Music
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Post by nathanalbright on Aug 30, 2021 12:40:36 GMT -5
We're used to people in pop fading fast that we forget that genre artists tend to have much more longevity, because fans are loyal to artists for a long time regardless of whether or not those artists have any pop crossover hits. But even within pop you have artists like Maroon 5, Madonna, Mariah, MJ, etc have long careers including hits in their 40s. Beyonce is still relevant. Not as recent, but pop artists like Elton John, Billy Joel, Cher, Aretha Franklin, etc. had relevant careers decades in. Also Jay-Z didn't really have mainstream success until 1998, so his actual career span in terms of mainstream success isn't that long (when was his last solo hit?). Most of those artists you cite, though, had as their base of support areas that were outside of pop and happened to cross over. Having a base in, say, Hot AC or AC, as most of those artists did, allows one a lot more time to cross over on radio. |
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edward
Charting
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Post by edward on Aug 30, 2021 12:43:41 GMT -5
Off the topic, but does anyone know what happened to TOTC? I really enjoy their contents and I was already really sad when their website got shut down. Please don't tell me that thing is gone forever.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 30, 2021 12:44:39 GMT -5
We're used to people in pop fading fast that we forget that genre artists tend to have much more longevity, because fans are loyal to artists for a long time regardless of whether or not those artists have any pop crossover hits. But even within pop you have artists like Maroon 5, Madonna, Mariah, MJ, etc have long careers including hits in their 40s. Beyonce is still relevant. Not as recent, but pop artists like Elton John, Billy Joel, Cher, Aretha Franklin, etc. had relevant careers decades in. I think rappers are definitely having the most longevity this century. Just look at Eminem/Kanye/Jay-Z who can still pull 300k+ first week 20~ years in. Britney/Xtina/Alicia/Usher/etc who also were around that time are just never pulling in the same interest they do ever again. Beyonce is the only one who’s a singer from that time that can still compare, and tbh we aren’t even sure she can anymore. It’s been over half a decade since her last studio album and her side projects were duds commercially. It comes down to once again Hip-Hop being the new Rock (go to genre for the straight men which are the biggest population demographic and ofcourse also really big genre with women too). It’s the same as how Metallica, AC/DC, and all those other rock bands from decades ago pulled way bigger numbers in present days as veterans compared to Pop stars. People still think it’s naturally cool to listen to them even at 40 years old. While a name like Katy Perry or Britney Spears is something people mainly like when younger then “grow out of”. |
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starlord
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Post by starlord on Aug 30, 2021 12:51:08 GMT -5
Lil Baby owns Apple Music. 2nd num 1 in this week. W for Weeknd.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 30, 2021 12:51:28 GMT -5
But even within pop you have artists like Maroon 5, Madonna, Mariah, MJ, etc have long careers including hits in their 40s. Beyonce is still relevant. Not as recent, but pop artists like Elton John, Billy Joel, Cher, Aretha Franklin, etc. had relevant careers decades in. Also Jay-Z didn't really have mainstream success until 1998, so his actual career span in terms of mainstream success isn't that long (when was his last solo hit?). Most of those artists you cite, though, had as their base of support areas that were outside of pop and happened to cross over. Having a base in, say, Hot AC or AC, as most of those artists did, allows one a lot more time to cross over on radio. Who are some artists that don't have a base in other formats? But even within pop you have artists like Maroon 5, Madonna, Mariah, MJ, etc have long careers including hits in their 40s. Beyonce is still relevant. Not as recent, but pop artists like Elton John, Billy Joel, Cher, Aretha Franklin, etc. had relevant careers decades in. I think rappers are definitely having the most longevity this century. Just look at Eminem/Kanye/Jay-Z who can still pull 300k+ first week 20~ years in. Britney/Xtina/Alicia/Usher/etc who also were around that time are just never pulling in the same interest they do ever again. Beyonce is the only one who’s a singer from that time that can still compare, and tbh we aren’t even sure she can anymore. It’s been over half a decade since her last studio album and her side projects were duds commercially. It comes down to once again Hip-Hop being the new Rock (go to genre for the straight men which are the biggest population demographic and ofcourse also really big genre with women too). It’s the same as how Metallica, AC/DC, and all those other rock bands from decades ago pulled way bigger numbers in present days as veterans compared to Pop stars. People still think it’s naturally cool to listen to them even at 40 years old. While a name like Katy Perry or Britney Spears is something people mainly like when younger then “grow out of”. Kanye's debut was in 2005, so I am not sure he should be grouped with Usher who debuted in 1997 (in terms of mainstream impact) or Britney who debuted in 1999. Successful rappers like Ja Rule, Nelly, Juvenile, etc can't pull in the same numbers as 20 years ago either. |
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Post by ontopofthis on Aug 30, 2021 12:57:48 GMT -5
What are your predictions for Kanye and Drake's album bombs? How do you make projections for something by that is not even out? |
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Post by nathanalbright on Aug 30, 2021 12:58:33 GMT -5
But Nelly is getting a YE hit with Lil Bit, so he has that going for him. As far as artists without other genre bases, all of the ones you listed had a strong base in something like AC/Hot AC, dance, R&B, and so on. It's worthwhile to look at how strong artists can maintain support within that genre, and then look to see what percentage of those artists that are able to do so are still able to occasionally cross over to pop.
It is also interesting to compare trends. An artist like Eminem is able to get high debuts for streaming but without radio support songs are not able to last a long time on the charts or make the Year End, but a group like Maroon 5 is able to consistently get a lot of genre radio support for songs that otherwise do not have nearly as much streaming, and is able to get YE hits year after year. The tendency of AC/Hot AC to hold on to artists for a long time helps to provide artists on those genres with a lot of longevity.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 30, 2021 12:58:40 GMT -5
Most of those artists you cite, though, had as their base of support areas that were outside of pop and happened to cross over. Having a base in, say, Hot AC or AC, as most of those artists did, allows one a lot more time to cross over on radio. Who are some artists that don't have a base in other formats? I think rappers are definitely having the most longevity this century. Just look at Eminem/Kanye/Jay-Z who can still pull 300k+ first week 20~ years in. Britney/Xtina/Alicia/Usher/etc who also were around that time are just never pulling in the same interest they do ever again. Beyonce is the only one who’s a singer from that time that can still compare, and tbh we aren’t even sure she can anymore. It’s been over half a decade since her last studio album and her side projects were duds commercially. It comes down to once again Hip-Hop being the new Rock (go to genre for the straight men which are the biggest population demographic and ofcourse also really big genre with women too). It’s the same as how Metallica, AC/DC, and all those other rock bands from decades ago pulled way bigger numbers in present days as veterans compared to Pop stars. People still think it’s naturally cool to listen to them even at 40 years old. While a name like Katy Perry or Britney Spears is something people mainly like when younger then “grow out of”. Kanye's debut was in 2005, so I am not sure he should be grouped with Usher who debuted in 1997 (in terms of mainstream impact) or Britney who debuted in 1999. Successful rappers like Ja Rule, Nelly, Juvenile, etc can't pull in the same numbers as 20 years ago either. Kanye’s debut was in 2004, 17 years ago. He is now pulling 300k+ first week and smashing Spotify/Apple Music occupying the entire top 20. 17 years after 1997 for Usher was 2014…17 years after 1999 for Britney was 2016. Do you really think their careers were still anywhere near what Kanye’s currently is at that point? Lmao. You pointing out rappers from the same time period that didn’t survive doesn’t really invalidate the point made that rappers are having the best longevity overall. Yeah, obviously not EVERY single artist in a genre is going to survive for multiple decades. I could name plenty of Rock bands from the 60s-80s that didn’t survive, but it doesn’t really take away from the fact that you can still name plenty of old Rock bands that sell large amounts in present times before you could from other genres. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 30, 2021 13:01:34 GMT -5
What are your predictions for Kanye and Drake's album bombs? How do you make projections for something by that is not even out? It's not impossible. The point isn't for the projections to be accurate. Just what you think based on their commercial standings. |
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garrettlen
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Post by garrettlen on Aug 30, 2021 13:03:20 GMT -5
I wonder if Drake is releasing CLB now because of the need to pay for some extra child support payments. It would explain the cover art. If so, Drake needs to learn how to use a condom. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 30, 2021 13:04:13 GMT -5
Also, aren’t we kind of entering into new territory? Rap has been around for a long enough time but it wasn’t until the 90s that it became culturally prominent and at the time, most major rappers were in their 20s. We haven’t really had a time where rappers in their 50s had an opportunity to really shine - until now. So Jay Z, Eminem, Kanye, etc, as they age, they still have major weight in the industry. Will the same be said for those who came to prominence within the last decade and a half? It’ll be interesting to see.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 30, 2021 13:04:22 GMT -5
17 years after 1997 for Usher was 2014…17 years after 1999 for Britney was 2016. Do you really think their careers were still anywhere near what Kanye’s currently is at that point? Lmao. Well I'd also note it's not just about debut totals. Ye and Jesus is King are only certified Gold. My point is more so just that we're talking about a few specific artists either way. I'm just looking for a wider set of examples, if that makes sense. |
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kalmanta
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Post by kalmanta on Aug 30, 2021 13:04:36 GMT -5
Kanye's debut was in 2005, so I am not sure he should be grouped with Usher who debuted in 1997 (in terms of mainstream impact) or Britney who debuted in 1999. Kanye actually had his debut album in 04, collected a #1 Hot 100 hit in 03 and made prominent contributions to Jay‘s mega-successful Blueprint album in 01. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 30, 2021 13:06:58 GMT -5
Kanye's debut was in 2005, so I am not sure he should be grouped with Usher who debuted in 1997 (in terms of mainstream impact) or Britney who debuted in 1999. Kanye actually had his debut album in 04, collected a #1 Hot 100 hit in 03 and made prominent contributions to Jay‘s mega-successful Blueprint album in 01. Those are different than notable solo artist material, though. I mean Usher technically released his debut album in 1994, and it spawned some R&B hits, so technically 2014 would have been 20 years into his career. But I don't know why he was brought up in the first place because he's a "genre" artist in having R&B as a base. |
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korbel16
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Post by korbel16 on Aug 30, 2021 13:12:14 GMT -5
Oh shit did i start something lmao
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Aug 30, 2021 13:14:21 GMT -5
Who are some artists that don't have a base in other formats? Kanye's debut was in 2005, so I am not sure he should be grouped with Usher who debuted in 1997 (in terms of mainstream impact) or Britney who debuted in 1999. Successful rappers like Ja Rule, Nelly, Juvenile, etc can't pull in the same numbers as 20 years ago either. Kanye’s debut was in 2004, 17 years ago. He is now pulling 300k+ first week and smashing Spotify/Apple Music occupying the entire top 20. 17 years after 1997 for Usher was 2014…17 years after 1999 for Britney was 2016. Do you really think their careers were still anywhere near what Kanye’s currently is at that point? Lmao. You pointing out rappers from the same time period that didn’t survive doesn’t really invalidate the point made that rappers are having the best longevity overall. Yeah, obviously not EVERY single artist in a genre is going to survive for multiple decades. I could name plenty of Rock bands from the 60s-80s that didn’t survive, but it doesn’t really take away from the fact that you can still name plenty of old Rock bands that sell large amounts in present times before you could from other genres. To be fair, in Spears’ defence, in 2016, “MM” sold 96K digital units in the first week; “Glory” debuted with 100K units in the first week, and she was fluently selling out all of her Vegas shows during that time also. Given the disastrous state of her personal life, I would say that (commercially) she was relatively stable during that time and clearly had a lot of strong fan interest. Now, longevity is another conversation. That said... To me it seems that the biggest Pop stars, who debuted in the latter half of the 20th century, seemed to have more longevity coming into the 21st century than those who debuted in the 2000’s and have come into the 2010’s/2020’s. (Rihanna/Taylor Swift are the only, current, strong exceptions who are approaching years 17/16 of their careers respectively). • 17 years after her debut, Mariah Carey had “TMB & E=MC2”. • 17 years after her debut, Janet Jackson had “Doesn’t Really Matter & All For You”. • 17 years after her debut, Madonna had the “Music” era; she fell to her lowest between 2001-2004, and then rose like a phoenix in her 23rd year with “COAD” and then had continued success with “Hard Candy” and future tours etc. Then, of course, there’s Beyonce if we count D.C. It’s interesting. |
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Post by ontopofthis on Aug 30, 2021 13:14:39 GMT -5
But even within pop you have artists like Maroon 5, Madonna, Mariah, MJ, etc have long careers including hits in their 40s. Beyonce is still relevant. Not as recent, but pop artists like Elton John, Billy Joel, Cher, Aretha Franklin, etc. had relevant careers decades in. I think rappers are definitely having the most longevity this century. Just look at Eminem/Kanye/Jay-Z who can still pull 300k+ first week 20~ years in. Britney/Xtina/Alicia/Usher/etc who also were around that time are just never pulling in the same interest they do ever again. Beyonce is the only one who’s a singer from that time that can still compare, and tbh we aren’t even sure she can anymore. It’s been over half a decade since her last studio album and her side projects were duds commercially. It comes down to once again Hip-Hop being the new Rock (go to genre for the straight men which are the biggest population demographic and ofcourse also really big genre with women too). It’s the same as how Metallica, AC/DC, and all those other rock bands from decades ago pulled way bigger numbers in present days as veterans compared to Pop stars. People still think it’s naturally cool to listen to them even at 40 years old. While a name like Katy Perry or Britney Spears is something people mainly like when younger then “grow out of”. Women actually outnumber guys in America, but women are more comfortable listening to male artists than guys are listening to female artists for obvious reasons. That is why you get Lemonade opening to 600,000 copies or Folklore opening to 800,000 when an artist is extremely popular with women |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 30, 2021 13:14:43 GMT -5
17 years after 1997 for Usher was 2014…17 years after 1999 for Britney was 2016. Do you really think their careers were still anywhere near what Kanye’s currently is at that point? Lmao. Well I'd also note it's not just about debut totals. Ye and Jesus is King are only certified Gold. My point is more so just that we're talking about a few specific artists either way. I'm just looking for a wider set of examples, if that makes sense. One of those is literally a Gospel album. How much would you have expected a Gospel release by Britney or Usher to sell in comparison 15 years into their career lmao? And you’re right it’s not about just debut sales or whatever. Kanye is literally still a massive pop culture staple in general whether you like or dislike him. Britney in 2016 was not. Usher in 2014 was not. It’s quite honestly that simple. |
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joshtheking
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Post by joshtheking on Aug 30, 2021 13:15:59 GMT -5
24( debut) Lorde I Need You 1,063,121Wow glad to see Lorde getting a top 25 spotify hit! Especially on Kanye's album bomb, wow! (In all seriousness thank you so much dremolus for this, you put in so much effort every day i dont know how you do it |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 30, 2021 13:19:07 GMT -5
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 30, 2021 13:19:07 GMT -5
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 30, 2021 13:19:23 GMT -5
Well I'd also note it's not just about debut totals. Ye and Jesus is King are only certified Gold. My point is more so just that we're talking about a few specific artists either way. I'm just looking for a wider set of examples, if that makes sense. One of those is literally a Gospel album. How much would you have expected a Gospel release by Britney or Usher to sell in comparison 15 years into their career lmao? And you’re right it’s not about just debut sales or whatever. Kanye is literally still a massive pop culture staple in general whether you like or dislike him. Britney in 2016 was not. Usher in 2014 was not. It’s quite honestly that simple. is literally my favorite album of all-time, so I won't tolerate your implications that my asking questions and such is rooted in disliking Kanye/his music. And to act like Britney has ever been anything but a pop culture staple is all sorts of ridiculous. Literally I am just trying to see if there is more than "These 2-3 guys can debut with a decent total" to support the theory that hip-hop artists last longer than pop artists. |
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Post by ontopofthis on Aug 30, 2021 13:32:06 GMT -5
17 years after 1997 for Usher was 2014…17 years after 1999 for Britney was 2016. Do you really think their careers were still anywhere near what Kanye’s currently is at that point? Lmao. Well I'd also note it's not just about debut totals. Ye and Jesus is King are only certified Gold. My point is more so just that we're talking about a few specific artists either way. I'm just looking for a wider set of examples, if that makes sense. I am pretty sure that they only have those certifications because they have not been updated |
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