Billboard Hot 100: 11/27/2021

[felipe]

Nov 15, 2021 19:06:11 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 15, 2021 19:00:39 GMT -5 Hefty Hanna said:

I don't really get the argument of Taylor no longer being the biggest pop star in the world. Smash radio singles or not, her continued success at this level is nearly unprecedented by any other female act other than maybe Madonna?

I by no means am saying Taylor has had even a fraction of that sort of cultural impact, but she's undeniably still massive and it's hard for me to think of another act that you'd say is "bigger" in terms of success and star power other than Adele. Ariana? Billie? Olivia? Would love to have the conversation, as I don't typically reside in the States so maybe I'm missing something.

You're not wrong. I just think for a lot of people - myself being one of them - being a pop star involves having hits. That isn't to say other people can't see it differently, of course.

I kind of agree that a pop star needs hits in order to keep that title. I think Taylor is in a point of her career in which she's not getting huge pop hits anymore bu she's built a big, loyal fanbase that will drive anything she releases to #1, even if only for a week, and that gives the impression that she's still big among the GP while it's actually her own fanbase buying the same albums with different covers multiple times and downloading 4 different versions of the same song.

[Hefty Hanna]

Nov 15, 2021 20:31:00 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Hefty Hanna as for the "Taylor no longer being the biggest pop star in the world" argument, she isn't and that's okay. You can't call yourself the biggest pop star in the world without the hits the back it up. They kinda go together. She moves a ton of album units every year thanks to her well-consumed catalog and a steady stream of new releases but that's where it ends. Whenever she drops a new album, everyone talks about it for that week but then it's back to regularly scheduled programming. There are other female acts dominating cultural conversations and they're newer, younger artists, naturally. That's simply what happens when you're someone who has been releasing music for as long as Taylor has and I doubt she cares about that anyways.

I say all of that to say, Taylor is fine. Her legacy is already established but it's still great to see her continue to remain successful as a musician. She's the biggest female artist in a music marketplace with only a handful of female artists actually seeing sizeable success in a mainstream space and she releases music a lot more frequently than any other mainstream female artist, especially over the last few years and that only further highlights her success so in that regard, yes, it's Taylor's world and we're all just living in it.

I get this and agree with a good amount of it, but if Taylor isn't the biggest pop star in the world then who is?

Adele? Ariana? Billie? I wouldn't know who is if it's not Taylor. Is the concept of a "pop star" kind of gone in the age we are living in, when artists can be mega successful on just a singles basis alone? Maybe it's not the thread for this conversation but I'd be curious to keep having it.

[felipe]

Nov 15, 2021 20:51:26 GMT -5 Hefty Hanna said:

Nov 15, 2021 20:31:00 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Hefty Hanna as for the "Taylor no longer being the biggest pop star in the world" argument, she isn't and that's okay. You can't call yourself the biggest pop star in the world without the hits the back it up. They kinda go together. She moves a ton of album units every year thanks to her well-consumed catalog and a steady stream of new releases but that's where it ends. Whenever she drops a new album, everyone talks about it for that week but then it's back to regularly scheduled programming. There are other female acts dominating cultural conversations and they're newer, younger artists, naturally. That's simply what happens when you're someone who has been releasing music for as long as Taylor has and I doubt she cares about that anyways.

I say all of that to say, Taylor is fine. Her legacy is already established but it's still great to see her continue to remain successful as a musician. She's the biggest female artist in a music marketplace with only a handful of female artists actually seeing sizeable success in a mainstream space and she releases music a lot more frequently than any other mainstream female artist, especially over the last few years and that only further highlights her success so in that regard, yes, it's Taylor's world and we're all just living in it.

I get this and agree with a good amount of it, but if Taylor isn't the biggest pop star in the world then who is?

Adele? Ariana? Billie? I wouldn't know who is if it's not Taylor. Is the concept of a "pop star" kind of gone in the age we are living in, when artists can be mega successful on just a singles basis alone? Maybe it's not the thread for this conversation but I'd be curious to keep having it.

I guess currently the biggest pop star would be Ariana... But yeah, they don't make pop stars as they used to.

[thegreatdivine]

atg I'd love to see All Too Well have that kind of longevity but I doubt it happens. Starting from next week, the Hot 100 will start getting occupied with Christmas songs. There's also a potential Adele album bomb to consider, not to mention rappers that could drop in December and have album bombs. Also, as we get deeper into December, the streaming support for non-Christmas songs will steadily decline while the streaming support for Christmas songs will rapidly rise. All those factors will work against All Too Well, which won't have radio support like other singles to help cushion it's fall.

[lazer]

Doesn't matter if ATW won't have longevity. All it matters is that it will reach #1 as it deserves.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Nov 15, 2021 20:51:26 GMT -5 Hefty Hanna said:

Nov 15, 2021 20:31:00 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

I get this and agree with a good amount of it, but if Taylor isn't the biggest pop star in the world then who is?

Adele? Ariana? Billie? I wouldn't know who is if it's not Taylor. Is the concept of a "pop star" kind of gone in the age we are living in, when artists can be mega successful on just a singles basis alone? Maybe it's not the thread for this conversation but I'd be curious to keep having it.

in the world? she's definitely one of the biggest, but I don't think she's THE biggest. If we talk about the US only, then I agree, she's the biggest female artist since Mariah in the US.

[Hefty Hanna]

I've created a thread in the "Your Opinion" forum for us to continue this conversation as I think it's quite interesting. :)

[fridayteenage]

Nov 15, 2021 19:54:45 GMT -5 Choco said:

Adele was an event that people wanted to see... I don't think the Grammys have felt as urgent and must-see since... the year 21 swept.

well, Grammys' lead in had 8 million viewers and the grammys grew from it.
Adele's lead in had 12.5 million viewers and lost a few million of those.

[jayhawk1117]

Look what I've caused 💀💀. I mean considering she's now had the highest day 1 streams of any female 3 different times in the last 3 years post her peak (which is obviously 2014/2015), she's def still the gal to beat imo. Either her or Ariana lol

[ificanthaveyou]

Team Taylor going all in now. Karaoke versions of ATW on YouTube and #2 and #3 on iTunes. I’m sure they have more up their sleeves if it’s too close.

[Verisimilitude]

Nov 15, 2021 21:46:42 GMT -5 fridayteenage said:

Nov 15, 2021 19:54:45 GMT -5 Choco said:

Adele was an event that people wanted to see... I don't think the Grammys have felt as urgent and must-see since... the year 21 swept.

well, Grammys' lead in had 8 million viewers and the grammys grew from it.
Adele's lead in had 12.5 million viewers and lost a few million of those.

[jayhawk1117]

Nov 15, 2021 22:13:43 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

Team Taylor going all in now. Karaoke versions of ATW on YouTube and #2 and #3 on iTunes. I’m sure they have more up their sleeves if it’s too close.

when she sees that number one is a possibility, she's turning that 50% to 99%. Does it seem desperate occasionally? Absolutely. But I love the hustle 😂

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

I don't see a point in this. She'll be #1 based on those streaming numbers alone...unless she knows something we don't? But I'm pretty sure Billboard will combine ATW versions.

[Future Captain]

Nov 15, 2021 22:25:16 GMT -5 jayhawk1117 said:

Nov 15, 2021 22:13:43 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

Team Taylor going all in now. Karaoke versions of ATW on YouTube and #2 and #3 on iTunes. I’m sure they have more up their sleeves if it’s too close.

when she sees that number one is a possibility, she's turning that 50% to 99%. Does it seem desperate occasionally? Absolutely. But I love the hustle 😂

As long as billboard continued to make that a viable strategy, any act with a rabid big enough fanbase will continue to do, which I agree is just part of the hustle at this point

[Joe1240]

Nov 15, 2021 20:31:00 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Choco if there's one thing no one can EVER say about Taylor, it's saying she "doesn't try." This is a woman that's pushing the re-release of her older albums harder than most artists push new albums. She definitely pushed the singles off reputation and Lover as much and as hard as she could. The difference between how the singles from those eras and the singles from the 1989 era performed is that there was an actual demand and GP support for the 1989 singles. Radio definitely factors into why her singles don't serve as much longevity as before but it's more than that tbh. People just aren't interested in Taylor Swift's singles longterm anymore and it has nothing to do with her no longer being able to craft a hit. It's also most definitely not because she doesn't "try" anymore. cardigan and willow each got multiple remixes and a legitimate push to debut as high as possible. She's doing the exact same thing with All Too Well right now so you also can't say she doesn't care about scoring hits. She probably just knows she can't score organic hits anymore so she waits to see a song she drops that gets some traction and then she throws all her support behind that song to get the best debut possible and keeps it moving.

She focuses more on pushing her albums now because she knows that's always been her strong suit and that's really the only avenue in her music career she still has some legitimate support in (with the exception of touring).

Hefty Hanna as for the "Taylor no longer being the biggest pop star in the world" argument, she isn't and that's okay. You can't call yourself the biggest pop star in the world without the hits to back it up. They kinda go together. She moves a ton of album units every year thanks to her well-consumed catalog and a steady stream of new releases but that's where it ends. Whenever she drops a new album, everyone talks about it for that week but then it's back to regularly scheduled programming. There are other female acts dominating cultural conversations and they're newer, younger artists, naturally. That's simply what happens when you're someone who has been releasing music for as long as Taylor has and I doubt she cares about that anyways.

I say all of that to say, Taylor is fine. Her legacy is already established but it's still great to see her continue to remain successful as a musician. She's the biggest female artist in a music marketplace with only a handful of female artists actually seeing sizeable success in a mainstream space and she releases music a lot more frequently than any other mainstream female artist, especially over the last few years and that only further highlights her success so in that regard, yes, it's Taylor's world and we're all just living in it.

I agree with you on that one point.As A Swift fan myself,nostalgia itself is driving the re-releases because we Swift fans want to hear the changes in the new versions.Obviously I'm happy with ATW's 1st week success, glad to see this song doing well. The only downside is these new re-releases have done better on the charts than her recent collaborations with HAIM and Big Red Machine this year, both of them were new songs[Renegade,Gasoline Remix] and they were under the radar this year.Taylor even had backing vocals on Big Red Machine's song "Birch" and the song didn't do anything. I'm just hoping the Red TV songs will last into January and beyond the debut week.

[gikem]

TBH, I'm not too sure how well ATW is going to hold up long-term. It could be a mostly streaming-based smash, or it could fade into obscurity rather quickly like a lot of BTS tracks that don't get a huge radio push. I'll withhold judgement on its prospects until after the holidays are over.

The other Taylor track I'm keeping a close eye on is I Bet You Think Of Me, which both got a music video and is getting pushed to country radio. I wouldn't be surprised if that song has an alright run, maybe even an outside chance at the 2022 YE.

[Choco]

Message in a Bottle is being pushed to CHR as well.

[gikem]

Nov 15, 2021 22:52:04 GMT -5 Choco said:

Message in a Bottle is being pushed to CHR as well.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that one. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if it does decently, but like others have said, Taylor hasn't had a major CHR hit in some time.

[cjay]

well she hasn't exactly tried to have a major hit either. If so, she would have made better single choices for Reputation and Lover. It's sad that her only major radio hit (top 5 airplay and longevity) in the last 5 years has been Delicate.

[Hefty Hanna]

Nov 15, 2021 23:03:34 GMT -5 cjay said:

well she hasn't exactly tried to have a major hit either. If so, she would have made better single choices for Reputation and Lover. It's sad that her only major radio hit (top 5 airplay and longevity) in the last 5 years has been Delicate.

I disagree with this - she absolutely tried really hard on both of those albums and her/her label's judgement was off. 'Delicate' was easily the best single choice from either of those albums. I agree that she has certainly stopped trying as of folklore though for a smash hit and is happy for success on her own terms. Which has proven to be wildly successful anyway lol

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Nov 15, 2021 19:40:43 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 15, 2021 19:24:50 GMT -5 Choco said:

Her downloads and streams on the other hand are as healthy as ever.

Are they? Have recent singles stuck around for 2 or more months in sales and streaming?

Exile is on the Spotify streaming charts right now and I believe it outlasted cardigan.

[cjay]

Nov 15, 2021 23:09:20 GMT -5 Hefty Hanna said:

Nov 15, 2021 23:03:34 GMT -5 cjay said:

well she hasn't exactly tried to have a major hit either. If so, she would have made better single choices for Reputation and Lover. It's sad that her only major radio hit (top 5 airplay and longevity) in the last 5 years has been Delicate.

I disagree with this - she absolutely tried really hard on both of those albums and her/her label's judgement was off. 'Delicate' was easily the best single choice from either of those albums. I agree that she has certainly stopped trying as of folklore though for a smash hit and is happy for success on her own terms. Which has proven to be wildly successful anyway lol

maybe she tried with Reputation. Sometimes I think LWYMMD was a blessing and curse. It fired up the base, but did harm with her standing with the general public. But certainly Lover's single choices were very mind boggling. the only single that wasn't polarizing was the title track. Then she went all Beyonce with Folklore and Evermore--though Taylor did take advantage of chart manipulation techniques to get her lead singles #1 on the hot 100. I aint mad at her. I just feel like she isn't trying hard for radio hits. Like how do you write these POP masterpieces for 1989 and then fall flat (though I personally LOVE reputation). I know she still knows how to construct a perfect commercial pop song, but it's like she's holding back. It all worked out for her... just my thoughts.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Nov 15, 2021 16:55:13 GMT -5 mylo said:

Post Malone vs The Weeknd and his doppelgangers featuring mass genocide of some asians in suits while a song about getting revenge on an ex plays in the background. How.... intresting.

Also I totally called Abel dieing again. I wonder what this takes The Weeknd Cinematic Universe Death Count to?

Rockstar vibes anyone?

Well he's died in Can't Feel My Face, Starboy, False Alarm, In Your Eyes, I Feel It Coming, One Right Now, LA FAMA and I think also in Until I Bleed out?. He survives getting chocked out in Take My Breath, fakes a suicide in Save Your Tears, gets beat up in Blinding Lights, and survives a car crash in The Hills

[Hefty Hanna]

Nov 15, 2021 23:23:32 GMT -5 cjay said:

Nov 15, 2021 23:09:20 GMT -5 Hefty Hanna said:

I disagree with this - she absolutely tried really hard on both of those albums and her/her label's judgement was off. 'Delicate' was easily the best single choice from either of those albums. I agree that she has certainly stopped trying as of folklore though for a smash hit and is happy for success on her own terms. Which has proven to be wildly successful anyway lol

maybe she tried with Reputation. Sometimes I think LWYMMD was a blessing and curse. It fired up the base, but did harm with her standing with the general public. But certainly Lover's single choices were very mind boggling. the only single that wasn't polarizing was the title track. Then she went all Beyonce with Folklore and Evermore--though Taylor did take advantage of chart manipulation techniques to get her lead singles #1 on the hot 100. I aint mad at her. I just feel like she isn't trying hard for radio hits. Like how do you write these POP masterpieces for 1989 and then fall flat (though I personally LOVE reputation). I know she still knows how to construct a perfect commercial pop song, but it's like she's holding back. It all worked out for her... just my thoughts.

And they're great thoughts :) I personally love Lover!

I feel like she really thought she did a thing with ME!, but...

[cjay]

Nov 15, 2021 23:25:33 GMT -5 Hefty Hanna said:

Nov 15, 2021 23:23:32 GMT -5 cjay said:

maybe she tried with Reputation. Sometimes I think LWYMMD was a blessing and curse. It fired up the base, but did harm with her standing with the general public. But certainly Lover's single choices were very mind boggling. the only single that wasn't polarizing was the title track. Then she went all Beyonce with Folklore and Evermore--though Taylor did take advantage of chart manipulation techniques to get her lead singles #1 on the hot 100. I aint mad at her. I just feel like she isn't trying hard for radio hits. Like how do you write these POP masterpieces for 1989 and then fall flat (though I personally LOVE reputation). I know she still knows how to construct a perfect commercial pop song, but it's like she's holding back. It all worked out for her... just my thoughts.

And they're great thoughts :) I personally love Lover!

I feel like she really thought she did a thing with ME!, but...

LOL! "Hey kids, spelling is FUN." I just wanted to scream-- GURL STOP! while I'm bitching, I should admit that I LOVE both Reputation and Lover. They had so much potential. I still listen to both albums very frequently.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Nov 15, 2021 23:25:27 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Nov 15, 2021 16:55:13 GMT -5 mylo said:

Post Malone vs The Weeknd and his doppelgangers featuring mass genocide of some asians in suits while a song about getting revenge on an ex plays in the background. How.... intresting.

Also I totally called Abel dieing again. I wonder what this takes The Weeknd Cinematic Universe Death Count to?

Rockstar vibes anyone?

Well he's died in Can't Feel My Face, Starboy, False Alarm, In Your Eyes, I Feel It Coming, One Right Now, LA FAMA and I think also in Until I Bleed out?. He survives getting chocked out in Take My Breath, fakes a suicide in Save Your Tears, gets beat up in Blinding Lights, and survives a car crash in The Hills

me every time when the video is over and Abel is still alive.

[Future Captain]

Nov 15, 2021 23:25:27 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Nov 15, 2021 16:55:13 GMT -5 mylo said:

Post Malone vs The Weeknd and his doppelgangers featuring mass genocide of some asians in suits while a song about getting revenge on an ex plays in the background. How.... intresting.

Also I totally called Abel dieing again. I wonder what this takes The Weeknd Cinematic Universe Death Count to?

Rockstar vibes anyone?

Well he's died in Can't Feel My Face, Starboy, False Alarm, In Your Eyes, I Feel It Coming, One Right Now, LA FAMA and I think also in Until I Bleed out?. He survives getting chocked out in Take My Breath, fakes a suicide in Save Your Tears, gets beat up in Blinding Lights, and survives a car crash in The Hills

Abel in every single pitch meeting for music videos involving him: "Consider this. Me, but violently suffering."

[fridayteenage]

itunes #10 Sleeping on the Blacktop
Colter Wall
Genre: Singer/Songwriter
Release Date: June 2, 2015

i was curious why a random song from years ago was selling. it was featured on yellowstone.
the new grey's anatomy ig.

[nathanalbright]

Nov 15, 2021 23:50:53 GMT -5 Future Captain said:

Nov 15, 2021 23:25:27 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Well he's died in Can't Feel My Face, Starboy, False Alarm, In Your Eyes, I Feel It Coming, One Right Now, LA FAMA and I think also in Until I Bleed out?. He survives getting chocked out in Take My Breath, fakes a suicide in Save Your Tears, gets beat up in Blinding Lights, and survives a car crash in The Hills

Abel in every single pitch meeting for music videos involving him: "Consider this. Me, but violently suffering."

Actually, I'm not sure that this is an Abel problem.  I remember reading in the book by Semisonic's drummer, "So You Wanna Be A Rock & Roll Star" about how it was that musicians tend to get music video treatments that almost always include pain/suffering/death for the musicians involved.  I suspect the issue might lie with the people who pitch music video ideas to musicians and labels and not some sort of death wish by Abel himself, necessarily.  On the other hand, there does appear to be a pretty sizable difference between the persona of The Weeknd and Abel's own personality--at least from what I have been able to see, and so it is quite possible that Abel himself has some considerable ambivalence about his popular persona that reflects itself in the videos that are made, or at least those treatments that are accepted.

[85la]

Nov 15, 2021 23:09:20 GMT -5 Hefty Hanna said:

Nov 15, 2021 23:03:34 GMT -5 cjay said:

well she hasn't exactly tried to have a major hit either. If so, she would have made better single choices for Reputation and Lover. It's sad that her only major radio hit (top 5 airplay and longevity) in the last 5 years has been Delicate.

I disagree with this - she absolutely tried really hard on both of those albums and her/her label's judgement was off. 'Delicate' was easily the best single choice from either of those albums. I agree that she has certainly stopped trying as of folklore though for a smash hit and is happy for success on her own terms. Which has proven to be wildly successful anyway lol

Even that I'd disagree with you, as she actually tried very hard with Cardigan and Willow to secure their #1 debuts with releasing multiple versions and discounts last minute, etc., and they were both pushed to Pop and AC radio. Now that we're on this subject actually, it is bothering me a little bit that we are ok with Taylor releasing multiple versions last minute to get the #1, because while it's not to the same degree as BTS and ARMY, it's still along those lines. Just because it's with an artist and song we like, it's still crass and shady, and it is not ok. This is what they criticized us for. Just wanted to point that out.

Having said that though, I was wondering why they wouldn't push All Too Well at radio, it's not entirely radio-unfriendly. I could see it doing well at AC/Hot AC/Triple A, which I think Cardigan and Willow were fairly successful at, and the fact that the song is almost 10 years old doesn't matter because most people probably don't know it exists, I didn't until a few months ago! I just listened to Message in a Bottle though which is also a very, very good choice, but if it were me I would wait till after the New Year to see if there's any radio prospects for ATW, since there seems to be such high demand for it.