Fewer Commercials = Increased Spins?

[Michael1973]

I notice that my local CHR/Pop station, which is owned by ClearChannel and therefore began the "less commericals" policy, has several songs with gigantic spin gains this week.  In fact, their top 5 songs now get 80 spins each, whereas the #1 song used to get around 70.

Is this true of other CC stations as well?  Is it because they can fit in more music now?  Or is it totally unrelated?

[ct2874]

Hmmm...that's interesting. I primarily listen to AM radio
nowadays and it seems like they're running more ads
there. I know on the Animal, they now will interrupt a
segment for a 60-second commercial spot. Plus, Phil
Hendrie's show now has a second break within the half-
hour on the bottom half of each hour.

[Crushcrushchris]

I also hope that means bigger playlists.

[Michael1973]

Imaginary said:

I also hope that means bigger playlists.

Don't count on it.  I got into a long-winded conversation on another message board about this very subject.  I basically had all my thoughts on "bigger playlists" slammed by people in the business, who say the smaller the playlist, the better the ratings.

[Pipa]

It's very weird. Our station has a small playlist, but very few commericals. Their "rival" station has a bigger playlist, but hundreds of commericals.

[Libra]

Michael1973 said:

Don't count on it.  I got into a long-winded conversation on another message board about this very subject.  I basically had all my thoughts on "bigger playlists" slammed by people in the business, who say the smaller the playlist, the better the ratings.

BOO! >:(

Wish there was some way to test their belief...

[Michael1973]

Believe me, MikeK102, I wish there was too. I'm so fed up with repetition on radio, but I fear it will not be going away anytime soon.

These guys I was talking to on the other board basically insisted that radio stations spend huge amounts of money to "test" how much the "average listener" wants to hear a song, and only songs with extremely high results actually make it on the radio. This is supposedly how they keep their ratings high. One guy even told a story about a classic rock station that had a huge playlist and was basically run out of business because their listeners "heard too many unfamiliar songs" and tuned out.

So long as stations are getting the ratings and advertising dollars they want, things are never going to change in our favor.

[reception]

I guess this applies to just CHR stations, not AC stations?

[freeek04]

AC stations are worse. Have you looked at the AC Chart lately? Same songs are #1 for 26 bloody weeks!

[freeek04]

Michael1973 said:

Believe me, MikeK102, I wish there was too.  I'm so fed up with repetition on radio, but I fear it will not be going away anytime soon.

These guys I was talking to on the other board basically insisted that radio stations spend huge amounts of money to "test" how much the "average listener" wants to hear a song, and only songs with extremely high results actually make it on the radio.  This is supposedly how they keep their ratings high.  One guy even told a story about a classic rock station that had a huge playlist and was basically run out of business because their listeners "heard too many unfamiliar songs" and tuned out.

So long as stations are getting the ratings and advertising dollars they want, things are never going to change in our favor.

That's disgusting. This is what happens when 3 companies own 90% of the radio stations in the country. We get crap like this. Frankly, I know more people who've STOPPED listening to the radio in the past few years because of that exact reasoning on the part of the idiot corporate suits. Who are these bozos they talk about who tune out because they hear unfamiliar songs? And to boot, what a dumb example they gave you! Of course they don't want unfamiliar songs on a CLASSIC ROCK station!! It's not a new music/Top 40 station. People want to hear CLASSIC rock. Ugh.

Their reasoning is so flawed. People have such diverse musical tastes nowadays, that commercial radio just makes no sense. Basing the Hot 100 on it is what makes it such a useless chart. No one pays attention to it anymore, it's not even relevant in the industry that much.

Absolutely ridiculous.

[Michael1973]

Yes, AC stations are getting worse all the time.  They're playing far more non-AC sounding songs, and far fewer older songs.  In fact, I heard through the grapevine that one of the local AC stations has a playlist consisting of 225 songs total.  What a joke.

I too have heard a lot of complaints from people who think radio is too repetitive.  I tried to express my opinions on the subject to these radio professionals I mentioned, but they had an answer for everything.  They're so fixated on the idea that playing even one slightly unfamiliar song will drive away listeners that you will never get them to change their minds.  Sadly, it seems that almost every in the radio business thinks that way nowadays.

This is what happens when ratings-hungry corporations are running the entire industry.

[mst3k]

And unfortunately it's a downward spiral... the tighter the playlists become, the less new music the average listener is exposed to, which leads to fewer and fewer new songs testing well with familiarity, which leads to the stations tightening their playlists even more...

[tico]

AC is all about familiarity, so you won't a lot of newer music as you would on CHR or urban.

[freeek04]

mst3k said:

And unfortunately it's a downward spiral... the tighter the playlists become, the less new music the average listener is exposed to, which leads to fewer and fewer new songs testing well with familiarity, which leads to the stations tightening their playlists even more...

Which also leads to lower album sales, because people get so fed up with the crap music they're fed that they have to either pay $50 for imports or download the music off LimeWire. I don't think that a lot of today's more popular artists are actually that well-liked by the public. It's just that they know no one else. If this were 2000 and record sales were still strong, these artists would still sell the same amounts they are now.

Let's be honest, MP3s are in one way the new radio. They will very soon be taking over. I don't think the radio industry will be around much longer in its current state. It's already dying, and it will soon be completely obsolete. Never fear, the uprising is coming, lol.

[Michael1973]

freeek04 said:

I don't think that a lot of today's more popular artists are actually that well-liked by the public. It's just that they know no one else.

The other factor here is that today's radio is being driven by the teenage market.  CHR stations consider teenagers their target demographic and heavily play what they want to hear, which is generally not what everyone else wants to hear.

The result is, bad music dominating the charts and winning grammy awards, and really good music being delegated to other formats such as HotAC and AAA, which don't get as much exposure.

[Marv]

The fact that CHR/Pop has gotten so rhythmic-heavy over the past several years is also bad news for retail, considering the underwhelming CD sales increase in 2004, which would have been MUCH worse had it not been for another double-digit increase (approximately 12%) in country music sales.

Those corporations which rule the radio universe don't seem to know what good radio is, since today's products is just not that compelling.

The fact that songs can stay on the AC chart for a year is equally dreadful as well; I don't have a problem with artists such as Avril Lavigne & MB 20 on AC radio, but having a very small library isn't good for anybody, and that problem is much worse at CHR/Pop than at just about any other current-based format.

Media consolidation has ruined several once-legendary radio stations here in L A, including KRTH, which used to be a terrific-sounding oldies station with a HUGE library.

Now they play some songs as many as SIX times a day, which shows a lack of trust of their audience, and a lack of respect for their audience as well.

Face it folks; when you put the needs/demands of Wall Street ahead of the needs of the listeners, the listeners invariably lose.

'Delilah' was quoted in an R&R interview last summer stating that radfio has lost 20% of its listeners in the past three years; that percentage undoubtedly still climbing.

[EvanJ]

Six spins a day on an Oldies station? That's 42 spins a week which is too much for an AC station and way too much for an Oldies station. Looking at yes.net KRTH plays The Beatles too much.

[tico]

With these fewer commercials, revenue have to be made up by raising the fee. How much of an increase are stations charging for ads?

[Libra]

Marv said:

Those corporations which rule the radio universe don't seem to know what good radio is, since today's products is just not that compelling.

Case in point: A few months back, I posted a link to a Rolling Stone article about Clear Channel. The topic with the link was titled "Clear Channel: 'We're Not in the Music Business' ."

[Marv]

I've heard GREAT oldies stations all over the Southwest in the past several months, and KRTH is easily the worst of the bunch.

KDES in Palm Springs recently changed it's positioning statement to 'The Best Music Of The Sixties & Seventies', although it's still an excellent oldies station.

KOLA-FM in Riverside, which I'm VERY lucky to be able to hear from where I live in L A, is also a great oldies station.

KOOL-FM (Cool 94.5) in Phoenix is also terrific as well.

One MORE reason to despise Clear Channel; the destruction of yet another once-legendary radio statsion; even hearing former L A radio legend Bob (The Newlywed Game) Eubanks sitting in for Gary Bryan was very disheartening as well---same 25 songs over and over again.

Considering Eubanks once worked at the legendary KRLA/Pasadena in the 1960's (alongside Casey Kasem and Charlie O'Donnell, who's been the announcer on 'Wheel Of Fortune' since the show debuted), he certainly knows what good radio is all about, a tewrm which no longer applies to KRTH.

[freeek04]

Michael1973 said:

The other factor here is that today's radio is being driven by the teenage market.  CHR stations consider teenagers their target demographic and heavily play what they want to hear, which is generally not what everyone else wants to hear.

The result is, bad music dominating the charts and winning grammy awards, and really good music being delegated to other formats such as HotAC and AAA, which don't get as much exposure.

Well...I don't totally agree with that myself. Being 18 and fresh out of high school, a lot of it comes from the belief that "I should like it because it's popular and everyone else likes it". There is an awful large number of teenagers who only listen to music everyone else thinks is cool. If the radio plays "what is popular in the teen demographic" then it obviously must be good, says the shallow 'i must fit-in' teenage mindset that I know all-too-well but never partook in.

Now, let's face facts, knowing this, the radio conglomerates are far smarter than we think. Instead of playing what the public wants to hear, they instead dictate what they want to hear because the teenage mindset is one that generally cannot think for itself. Thus the record companies always win by feeding the same garbage at everyone over and over because they've seemingly mastered the art of "brainwashing" teenagers.

But that's just my theory.

[Edf85]

I've noticed a lot of Clear Channel stations have promos or the DJs will say stuff like "More music, less commercials" or "Back to the music faster" or "We'll be back in a couple minutes" or stuff that makes the commercials seem less now.

[Marv]

Well at least the version of 'Casey's Hot 20' that airs here on KBIG Los Angeles on Sundays from 7-10 AM is a three hour show; it used to start around 6:35 AM to make way for an extra THIRTY minutes of commercials.

Furthermore, there's no longer a six or seven minute block of commercials between the show which airs before it (Kid Kelly's BackTrax 80's) and 'Casey's Hot 20'.

[Love Plastic Love]

Our station actually began doing this as well-playing less commercials. (and from what I can tell, they actually are playing less commercials)
I can see the point in that they cannot play TOO much variety. Imagine if the most played song of a week was only played 10-20 times It might sound good, in theory, but I see why it wouldnt work.
But, I think radio stations are pulling it too much to the other side-tightening their playlists so there is NO variety. I really dont know a single person that Ive spoken to that thinks any radio station (obviously, around the Atlanata area where I am located) has good variety. The comments across the board are, "god, they are playing the same 5 songs every hour! Put in a mix cd!"

[freeek04]

But that's the thing. Top 40 used to mean all styles that made up what was currently popular. It all fit and the definition of pop was very eclectic and different from what it is today (Rap, R&B or Pop/Rock).

I honestly heard the worst playlisting ever yesterday at work. First "Breath" by Swollen Members ft/ Nelly Furtado came on (thankfully, I like the song). Another inane pop/rock song came on afterwards...the next song they played...you guessed it, "Breath" by Swollen Members. I could not believe how they managed to do that. I'm assuming a computer error, but still, it's ludicrous that this even happened.

If the station's playlist were bigger, this wouldn't happen, as I remember it has happened many a time before.

[Michael1973]

I have an awful feeling that the current incarnation of "Top 40" radio isn't going anywhere soon. Their primary audience is young kids, and the heavy focus on Urban and "Radio Disney" type music is because that's what most of today's kids want to hear. And the kids don't care if they hear the same songs 12 times a day, 9 months in a row. It no longer matters to Top 40 programmers what the rest of us want to hear. Sad but true.

[Pink Champagne Ricochet]

So, the consensus basically is that they are playing less commercials, but are using the extra time to play the same songs even more times? Not surprising.

[Slinky]

Marv said:

One MORE reason to despise Clear Channel; the destruction of yet another once-legendary radio statsion; even hearing former L A radio legend Bob (The Newlywed Game) Eubanks sitting in for Gary Bryan was very disheartening as well---same 25 songs over and over again.

Considering Eubanks once worked at the legendary KRLA/Pasadena in the 1960's (alongside Casey Kasem and Charlie O'Donnell, who's been the announcer on 'Wheel Of Fortune' since the show debuted), he certainly knows what good radio is all about, a tewrm which no longer applies to KRTH.

KRTH is owned by Infinity.  It seems like any time someone complains about a station, they automatically assume it's a Clear Channel station.  Someone in the Hot 97 topic did that too.

[tico]

splitchick59 said:

So, the consensus basically is that they are playing less commercials, but are using the extra time to play the same songs even more times? Not surprising.

I wouldn't be surprised either. Plus, on the stations that speed up their music, how many more repeats can they squeeze in?

[Marv]

Sorry I blew it about KRTH/Inifinity/Clear Channel.

But based on the wreckage of what's happened to numerous radio stations in LA over the past several years, Infinity is just as clueless as CC as to what constitutes great radio, at least as it applies to KRTH.

Radio is FAR too reliant on consultants and research to be anything but dull and safe, as detailed in both the Urban & Smooth Jazz columns of last weeks R&R clearly indicated.

Insofar as the troubled CHR/Pop format goes, Emmis VP/Programming Barry Mayo was quoted in last weerk's issue of R&R as saying that (CHR/Rhythmic) WQHT has two objectives...

1)---Target 12-24 listeners, AND

2)---Continue to bring new listeners to the station.

WQHT has done quite well in both regards, but the fact that the vast majority of CHR/Pop stations out there are rather poor copycats/imitators of the local CHR/Rhythmic outlet is why CHR/Pop is treading water as a format, not doing nearly as well as it used to until the late eighties.

There is NO reason for the CHR/Pop, CHR/Rhythmic, and Urban charts to have FAR too many of the same songs on all three charts to distinguish those formats, especially the first two.

When CHR/Pop gets make to being a mass-appeal format it was designed to be, thanks to the reinvention of the format here in Los Angeles on 93/KHJ in 1965, then it will start to see better days.

These days, AC & Hot AC stations have far more variety than CHR/Pop stations do, and that's downright bizarre, but undoubtedly true.

Playing dull songs such as 'Over And Over' 95+ times per week makes no sense either; no CHR/Pop station had to play 'It Must Have Been Love' (1990), St. Elmo's Fire (Man In Motion) (1985), or 'Another One Bites The Dust' (1980) 95+times per week either---42-54 times per week was plenty.