👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Sept 5, 2024 18:59:05 GMT -5
I agree with most of the posters here, she's out of touch and working again with DrL is truly one of her worst decisions ever, but this thread is sooo boring and repetitive, you can go to page 25 and read exactly the same things, beating a dead horse atp. It's gone on so long because we're finding out more info as things progress, there's not much more to talk about given the album isn't even out yet (and there's not much of a "chart performance" in relation to singles to speak of), and everyone's been waiting for her to speak on the situation and up until yesterday she hadn't so much as acknowledged it. Given this, it's understandable it's still the central topic of discussion. If people weren't talking about it the thread would be dead aside from maybe a few posters. lol
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Sept 5, 2024 19:06:25 GMT -5
I agree with most of the posters here, she's out of touch and working again with DrL is truly one of her worst decisions ever, but this thread is sooo boring and repetitive, you can go to page 25 and read exactly the same things, beating a dead horse atp. It’s the same arguments in every Katy thread. It’s impossible to open a Katy thread anymore without the same people circling around the same points. I agree, it’s beating a dead horse at this point.
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Sept 5, 2024 19:39:44 GMT -5
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Soundcl🕤ck
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Post by Soundcl🕤ck on Sept 5, 2024 20:16:41 GMT -5
I agree with most of the posters here, she's out of touch and working again with DrL is truly one of her worst decisions ever, but this thread is sooo boring and repetitive, you can go to page 25 and read exactly the same things, beating a dead horse atp. It's gone on so long because we're finding out more info as things progress, there's not much more to talk about given the album isn't even out yet (and there's not much of a "chart performance" in relation to singles to speak of), and everyone's been waiting for her to speak on the situation and up until yesterday she hadn't so much as acknowledged it. Given this, it's understandable it's still the central topic of discussion. If people weren't talking about it the thread would be dead aside from maybe a few posters. lol I can understand your point and people are free to discuss whatever they want ofc, but it's like I'm reading everything over and over again. I was also waiting for Katy's answer regarding DrL's involvement, and when she didn't say anything new, I realized she doesn't really have anything new to say. I don't know what we all expected, but she clearly thinks he is the only key to her success and she probably never had a bad experience with him in the past? and maybe Kesha's accusations about her and Dr pushed Katy to the other side, who knows. Still can't believe Katy was ready to risk her comeback and reputation for these weak and dated DrL tracks, like I'd understand if she had Dark Horse or Teenage Dream under the sleeve, but she was confident in WOMAN'S WORLD!?
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Sept 5, 2024 20:23:31 GMT -5
I agree with most of the posters here, she's out of touch and working again with DrL is truly one of her worst decisions ever, but this thread is sooo boring and repetitive, you can go to page 25 and read exactly the same things, beating a dead horse atp. It’s the same arguments in every Katy thread. It’s impossible to open a Katy thread anymore without the same people circling around the same points. I agree, it’s beating a dead horse at this point. Yea it’s made this place (and especially ATRL) a real bummer to come to. I know it’s all Katy’s fault blah blah blah, but the endless essays and from some, just venomous hate, really just makes me not even wanna log on.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Sept 5, 2024 20:49:48 GMT -5
Stans might not know him but celebrities do. Singers who choose to Max Martin going forward, are they as bad as Katy? As for have they collabed, ObhiDonna‘s list says they did on the Kim Petras track I feel like this is a disingenuous comparison. Apples to oranges. There are a myriad of factors in terms of potential backlash that you're purposefully glossing over it feels like to push this narrative Katy is somehow being unfairly criticized when that isn't the case. Potential backlash like this varies from artist to artist (depending on their target audience), from person to person (dependent on their image), let alone from artist to producer. It's so much more complex than just anyone and anything that touches the disreputable person gets shamed. For instance someone with a squeaky clean image found working with Luke isn't going to receive the same backlash as someone like Nicki Minaj who is synonymous with drama/infamous behavior. I feel like all this should go without saying, but it's gonna have to be broken down because some are gonna go out of their way to try to paint Katy as a victim of this whole situation when in fact she was not only a willing participant, but the direct source of her own problems. Yeah, you’re arguing with the wrong person and placing statements on me that are not true. Katy is not a victim here. Her working with Luke is idiotic. She is not being unfairly criticised. And her doubling down on her working with Luke is insane. I thought I made this clear but possibly not. So here I am making that clear Stans might not know him but celebrities do. Singers who choose to Max Martin going forward, are they as bad as Katy? As for have they collabed, ObhiDonna‘s list says they did on the Kim Petras track Huh? Max Martin has not been accused of sexual assault... are you confusing him with Dr. Luke? I appreciate that you're playing devil's advocate, but trying to equate Katy Perry with a random background singer (or even a respected producer) for a "double standard" argument really doesn't hold any water and is a bit silly. What does the top half mean? I’m saying people now hate Katy for working with Luke (which I don’t fault anyone for, I’ll add again). Therefore, I imagine it’s going to be difficult for her to find others to collab with going forward as they don’t want the negative press of “she was the one to work with Dr Luke, and me working with her says I’m okay with that”. My point is that I’m surprised people on this forum (and Stan Twitter), who know exactly who Max Martin is, seem to be fine/not not fine with the fact that Max is working with Dr Luke too? Maybe I’m reading into it too much, or I’m predicting the future. I just find it interesting no one (from what I have seen) has mentioned this - And with that.. I agree with everyone else. I’ve certainly said all I’ve needed to say on the matter. I’ll listen to this on release day, and if there’s anything else released in the meantime. Justice for Harley’s In Hawaii!
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Sept 5, 2024 20:54:35 GMT -5
I feel like this is a disingenuous comparison. Apples to oranges. There are a myriad of factors in terms of potential backlash that you're purposefully glossing over it feels like to push this narrative Katy is somehow being unfairly criticized when that isn't the case. Potential backlash like this varies from artist to artist (depending on their target audience), from person to person (dependent on their image), let alone from artist to producer. It's so much more complex than just anyone and anything that touches the disreputable person gets shamed. For instance someone with a squeaky clean image found working with Luke isn't going to receive the same backlash as someone like Nicki Minaj who is synonymous with drama/infamous behavior. I feel like all this should go without saying, but it's gonna have to be broken down because some are gonna go out of their way to try to paint Katy as a victim of this whole situation when in fact she was not only a willing participant, but the direct source of her own problems. Yeah, you’re arguing with the wrong person and placing statements on me that are not true. Katy is not a victim here. Her working with Luke is idiotic. She is not being unfairly criticised. And her doubling down on her working with Luke is insane. I thought I made this clear but possibly not. So here I am making that clear Huh? Max Martin has not been accused of sexual assault... are you confusing him with Dr. Luke? I appreciate that you're playing devil's advocate, but trying to equate Katy Perry with a random background singer (or even a respected producer) for a "double standard" argument really doesn't hold any water and is a bit silly. What does the top half mean? I’m saying people now hate Katy for working with Luke (which I don’t fault anyone for, I’ll add again). Therefore, I imagine it’s going to be difficult for her to find others to collab with going forward as they don’t want the negative press of “she was the one to work with Dr Luke, and me working with her says I’m okay with that”. My point is that I’m surprised people on this forum (and Stan Twitter) know exactly who Max Martin is. But we all seem to be fine with the fact that Max is working with Dr Luke too? Maybe I’m reading into it too much, or I’m predicting the future. I just find it interesting no one (from what I have seen) has mentioned this The most perceptive thing you've said.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Sept 5, 2024 20:59:33 GMT -5
Yeah, you’re arguing with the wrong person and placing statements on me that are not true. Katy is not a victim here. Her working with Luke is idiotic. She is not being unfairly criticised. And her doubling down on her working with Luke is insane. I thought I made this clear but possibly not. So here I am making that clear What does the top half mean? I’m saying people now hate Katy for working with Luke (which I don’t fault anyone for, I’ll add again). Therefore, I imagine it’s going to be difficult for her to find others to collab with going forward as they don’t want the negative press of “she was the one to work with Dr Luke, and me working with her says I’m okay with that”. My point is that I’m surprised people on this forum (and Stan Twitter) know exactly who Max Martin is. But we all seem to be fine with the fact that Max is working with Dr Luke too? Maybe I’m reading into it too much, or I’m predicting the future. I just find it interesting no one (from what I have seen) has mentioned this The most perceptive thing you've said. God, you’re exhausting. Do you always act this pretentious? I usually ignore your posts. Have a nice evening.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 5, 2024 21:56:29 GMT -5
I don't think I gave much opinions on the topic because likely nobody cares and they don't contribute much and I don't have that much energy to give but here goes. All of these can be true:
-Katy collaborating with Luke was the foundation of comeback flopping. I actually think the songs could have done decently if the Luke association wasn't there. She had plenty of goodwill leading into it, much more than going into the Smile era. The songs weren't *great* but worse songs have done better. She just came out of the box with a tumour attached to her and from then on, she wasn't getting rid of it. Comparatively, if the songs were absolute undeniable bangers, she also could have withstood the Luke association, but they weren't, so the collaboration became the focal point of any discussion around her.
-I think the criticisms of Katy are fair. She (or people around her) had to have known what the response would be. Yeah, Doja and others had a couple successful eras despite her having to work with him, but their situations weren't the same at all.
-To me, the whole situation is kind of PR/marketing 101. They should have known what the reaction would be and how it would all play out. We all saw it coming. Anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves. So while her working with Luke was a bad choice, not anticipating this outcome is an even worse offence tbh.
-I also think Katy is unfairly targeted. Maybe this conflicts with the point above but I think she's receiving a lot of pressure for her collaborating with him compared to others who have worked with problematic people and succeeded despite it.
-I'll still check out the album.
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Sept 5, 2024 22:12:52 GMT -5
Yeah, you’re arguing with the wrong person and placing statements on me that are not true. I wouldn't say I'm arguing with anyone, nor placing statements on anyone. I was merely responding to you comparing the hypothetical backlash for a music producer to that of an established artist like Katy and explaining exactly why and how that comparison is unwarranted and why it felt disingenuous to me. That's really all it was. If you were comparing the two and were asking about the situation genuinely, awesome. :) Let's also not forget that two of the other artists named throughout all this who were criticized, but maybe not to the extent Katy has been, were contractually obligated to work with Luke, whereas Katy worked with him by choice. That being a huge distinction and reason they weren't criticized as extensively.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Sept 5, 2024 23:03:37 GMT -5
So everyone in the room with Luke creating this album together SHOULD ALSO be under the same scrutiny as Katy, no?
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Sept 5, 2024 23:39:36 GMT -5
So everyone in the room with Luke creating this album together SHOULD ALSO be under the same scrutiny as Katy, no? Considering we have zero information on their contracts, no. Katy wanted to work with Luke willingly. A lot of the other names you find on the credits are Luke alums and proteges that are contractually forced to credit him even if he doesn't really contribute to the song. A lot of these people do not actually sit on the same room, ever. Kelly Clarkson asked not to directly work with Luke in person for My Life Would Suck Without You, for example, and ended up working just with Claude Kelly who served as the intermediary with Luke. There's no "room" in most of these prefabricated pop albums. These defenses are just as empty as whatever Katy said on that podcast. That's my big issue with Katy this era aside from the music, she's completely disconnected from reality and from what's actually part of pop culture right now.
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ObhiDonna
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Post by ObhiDonna on Sept 6, 2024 2:58:30 GMT -5
Any news or tidbits from the Toronto listening sessions? I am intrigued by the songs that we haven’t heard still and whats the feedback been.
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spiritboy
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Post by spiritboy on Sept 6, 2024 2:59:31 GMT -5
There is no way her career is surviving this era. I am really curious about the album which i’ll like and curious about the performance of the tour.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Sept 6, 2024 3:04:06 GMT -5
It must have been so awkward being a fan in the listening sessions pretending to love the material. I’ve seen at least one fan on Twitter express their true feelings about the music since
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Sept 6, 2024 8:01:13 GMT -5
It must have been so awkward being a fan in the listening sessions pretending to love the material. I’ve seen at least one fan on Twitter express their true feelings about the music since What did they say?
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Sept 6, 2024 8:35:34 GMT -5
It must have been so awkward being a fan in the listening sessions pretending to love the material. I’ve seen at least one fan on Twitter express their true feelings about the music since What did they say? I’ll try to find a tweet as I can’t remember but I do remember thatthey were talking about how WW shouldn’t have been the lead
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Soundcl🕤ck
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Post by Soundcl🕤ck on Sept 6, 2024 8:46:20 GMT -5
1. "Woman's World" Katy Perry, Aaron Joseph, Chloe Angelides, Dr. Luke, Rocco Valdes & Vaughn Oliver 2. "Gimme Gimme" ft 21 Savage Katy Perry, Shéyaa Bin Abraham-Joseph, Dr. Luke, Rocco Valdes, Ryan Ogren, Theron Thomas, LunchMoney Lewis & Ferras Alqaisi 3. "Gorgeous" ft Kim Petras Katy Perry, Kim Petras, Dr. Luke, Max Martin, Vaughn Oliver, Aaron Joseph, Rocco Valdes, Chloe Angelides, Malibu Babie & Devin Wilkes 4. "I'm His, He's Mine" ft Doechii Katy Perry, Jaylah Hickmon, Dr. Luke, Rocco Valdes, Ryan Ogren, Theron Thomas, LunchMoney Lewis, Ferras Alqaisi, Crystal Waters & Neal Conway 5. "Crush" Katy Perry, Dr. Luke, Rocco Valdes, Ryan Ogren, Theron Thomas, Keegan Bach, Emily Warren, Scott Harris, Sarah Hudson & Dallas Koehlke 6. "Lifetimes" Katy Perry, Dr. Luke, Vaughn Oliver, Rocco Valdes, Ryan Ogren, Theron Thomas, LunchMoney Lewis & Sarah Hudson 7. "All the Love" Katy Perry, Dr. Luke, Vaughn Oliver, Aaron Joseph, Ryan Ogren, Keegan Bach & Ferras Alqaisi 8. "Nirvana" Katy Perry, Dr. Luke, Vaughn Oliver, Aaron Joseph, Rocco Valdes, Ryan Ogren, Keegan Bach, Sarah Hudson, Dallas Koehlke, Theron Thomas, Emily Warren & Scott Harris 9. "Artificial" ft JID Katy Perry, Destin Route, Dr. Luke, Aaron Joseph, Keegan Bach, Chloe Angelides, Sarah Hudson & Samuel Catalano 10. "Truth" Katy Perry, Dr. Luke, Vaughn Oliver, Ryan Ogren, LunchMoney Lewis & Sarah Hudson 11. "Wonder" Katy Perry, Ferras Alqaisi, Tor Erik Hermansen, Mikkel S. Eriksen, Henry Walter, Kent Sundberg & Cato Sundberg Bonus tracks: • "No Tears For New Years" Theron Thomas,, Dr. Luke, Rocco Valdes, Katy Perry, Ferras Mahmoud Alqaisi, Ryan Ogren • "I Woke Up" Theron Thomas, Dr. Luke, Sarah Theresa Hudson, Rocco Valdes, Katy Perry, Vaughn Oliver, Gamal Kosh Lewis, Ryan Ogren where tf is this song then?
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PerPlexied
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Post by PerPlexied on Sept 6, 2024 9:38:35 GMT -5
This whole thread devolved into a mess. Just like this album rollout.
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on Sept 6, 2024 11:04:49 GMT -5
This whole thread devolved into a mess. Just like this album rollout. Except no one is talking about the album.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Sept 6, 2024 11:12:03 GMT -5
It may seem like a pile-on on its face, but seriously, what positive is there to say? It's been a non-stop stream of dumb decisions, weak music, weak videos, bad promo, etc.
I'm sure when the album drops, there will be bops to discuss. But until then, not a single thing has gone right.
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austin
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Post by austin on Sept 6, 2024 11:34:17 GMT -5
I don't understand why anyone is upset or surprised this thread is repetitive and negative when you factor in both how poor of a decision it was to work with Dr.Luke AND how bad the songs are (especially "WW" which is embarrassingly bad). It's just a flop era. It's OK. We will survive it even if her career won't.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Sept 6, 2024 12:02:01 GMT -5
someone went to the listening party in Toronto last night and said the album was GREAT. They played the album front to back. So i still have high hopes that I'll be getting an amazing gym playlist out of this.
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haven
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Post by haven on Sept 6, 2024 12:15:21 GMT -5
I think it's important to note that woman's world did not singlehandedly ruin this era's chance of mainstream success.
In hindsight, it was a bad idea to rush out Lifetimes like they did. Obviously there's the low-budget/basic video, but the only time I heard someone mention it in real life was a radio Dj saying how unlucky Katy was for having so much controversy. The whole era seemed cursed at that point! It may have been a better idea to just let the controversy play out without a second single and launch something as soon as the album came out. At least that way they'd get curiosity streams and something could catch on.
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on Sept 6, 2024 12:17:35 GMT -5
someone went to the listening party in Toronto last night and said the album was GREAT. They played the album front to back. So i still have high hopes that I'll be getting an amazing gym playlist out of this. I’m so ready for this album! Did they mention any standouts?
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Sept 6, 2024 12:21:07 GMT -5
Sending something else post WW was a decent choice - the lead was dead too far in advance from the album. Lifetimes just did not move the needle whatsoever so the era is back on no hype land. I’ll try to find a tweet as I can’t remember but I do remember thatthey were talking about how WW shouldn’t have been the lead I mean in hindsight that's not the deep analysis they seem to think it is lol. Even without hearing the lead, LIFETIMES alone would have been better.
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shakemaki
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Post by shakemaki on Sept 6, 2024 12:55:47 GMT -5
I don’t even believe Luke really worked on WW much. The song really does give off too much major AI vibes from everything from production to lyrics for it to all just be coincidental in this day and age. Honestly wouldn’t be shocked at all to find out she asked him to work on the album and he basically let AI do a lot of the “work.” Katy might not even be aware herself. Not even joking.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Sept 6, 2024 12:58:00 GMT -5
someone went to the listening party in Toronto last night and said the album was GREAT. They played the album front to back. So i still have high hopes that I'll be getting an amazing gym playlist out of this. I’m so ready for this album! Did they mention any standouts? not yet
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Sept 6, 2024 13:41:38 GMT -5
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Ty
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Post by Ty on Sept 6, 2024 15:26:16 GMT -5
She seems in love and feeling secured about her life after marrying Bloom. I hope their marriage will last.
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