jodakyellow
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Post by jodakyellow on Apr 27, 2024 14:45:02 GMT -5
^ I would say NSYNCs are all cds because iTunes didn't exist yet and vinyls weren't a thing then. Surely some were cassettes |
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Post by theycallmedualian on Apr 27, 2024 15:06:45 GMT -5
Republicβs Taylor Swift has notched the second-biggest album debut of all time with THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT. Her 31-track marvel moves an astounding 2.6m units in its opening week, knocking NSYNCβs No Strings Attached out of the #2 spot (Adeleβs 25 remains the all-time #1 with 3.4m+). Physical sales account for 1.9m of the total, with record-setting vinyl sales contributing nearly half. As we reported earlier today, Swift also set a new first-week streaming record, logging 865m streams. Limited commercial viability. Obviously not the case for the album but very much so for the single, itβs on the verge of being overtaken by her tour opener on Spotify atp. Just imagine if she had made a 2:30min quick little single instead |
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HEADOFTHEPACK
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Post by HEADOFTHEPACK on Apr 27, 2024 18:04:00 GMT -5
Limited commercial viability. Obviously not the case for the album but very much so for the single, itβs on the verge of being overtaken by her tour opener on Spotify atp. Just imagine if she had made a 2:30min quick little single instead Double checking that we're talking about Fortnight, which is about to debut at #1 on the Hot 100, is the #1 song on Spotify globally and is having a killer week at radio? |
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ccchui
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Post by ccchui on Apr 27, 2024 18:15:42 GMT -5
^ I would say NSYNCs are all cds because iTunes didn't exist yet and vinyls weren't a thing then. Surely some were cassettes Well being a person who were there in 2000...I can report that 99.5% of those sales were CDs. Cassette and Vinyl were considered outdated technology. No one buys those and record companies back then don't really produce those in the late 90s and early 2000s. People throwed those away like garbage. Therefore, seeing those media making the comeback in the 2020s (especially vinyl) and music lovers cherish them as collection items nowadays. It still amused me a lot. |
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Post by theycallmedualian on Apr 27, 2024 18:56:25 GMT -5
Obviously not the case for the album but very much so for the single, itβs on the verge of being overtaken by her tour opener on Spotify atp. Just imagine if she had made a 2:30min quick little single instead Double checking that we're talking about Fortnight, which is about to debut at #1 on the Hot 100, is the #1 song on Spotify globally and is having a killer week at radio? All of which are a bare minimum for any big acts?.. but because fortnight is a longer, slower, somewhat drawn-out- the middle song that sounded more like a Lana del Rey album track; everything that a generic pop song of the 2020s isnt, (sub 2min, great hook from the get go, simply lyrics that fits the chorus, which everything espresso is), shes is looking to be beaten by her tour opener in the near future. Thatβs like if you are a finance guy and the doorman of your company made a bigger more profitable investment than you. |
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clsvltn
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Post by clsvltn on Apr 27, 2024 20:24:50 GMT -5
Taylor's goal in life and this album is not to try and beat Sabrina. Someone was always going to beat Taylor in the "near future" - the average life span of a #1 single is only a couple weeks anyway, if that. Additionally, there is no promise that Espresso will even beat it anyway. Taylor can easily drop the Fortnight alt mix with additional Post vocals. Plus other potential big names are set to be dropping soon (Billie? Katy?) that could cause Espresso to get blocked or lost in the shuffle
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2024 20:53:14 GMT -5
Double checking that we're talking about Fortnight, which is about to debut at #1 on the Hot 100, is the #1 song on Spotify globally and is having a killer week at radio? All of which are a bare minimum for any big acts?.. but because fortnight is a longer, slower, somewhat drawn-out- the middle song that sounded more like a Lana del Rey album track; everything that a generic pop song of the 2020sniscnkt, (sub 2min, great hook from the get go, simply lyrics that fits the chorus, which everything espresso is), shes is looking to be beaten by her tour opener in the near future. Thatβs like if you are a finance guy and the doorman of your company made a bigger more profitable investment than you. Fortnight will have more total and more daily streams than Expresso in five years So perhaps the better analogy is that the doormans investment slightly outperformed the finance guys investment in the short-term but certainly not in the long-term? |
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Apr 27, 2024 22:53:40 GMT -5
Double checking that we're talking about Fortnight, which is about to debut at #1 on the Hot 100, is the #1 song on Spotify globally and is having a killer week at radio? All of which are a bare minimum for any big acts?.. but because fortnight is a longer, slower, somewhat drawn-out- the middle song that sounded more like a Lana del Rey album track; everything that a generic pop song of the 2020sniscnkt, (sub 2min, great hook from the get go, simply lyrics that fits the chorus, which everything espresso is), shes is looking to be beaten by her tour opener in the near future. Thatβs like if you are a finance guy and the doorman of your company made a bigger more profitable investment than you. Fortnight literally made histtory as the first song to debut with 100M streams on Spotify. Please explain to me how that say this song hs limited commercial viability? |
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Apr 28, 2024 0:21:15 GMT -5
Tbh Taylor could have done ANY song and would have gotten the exact same numbers. But to deny the song is at least a hit this week is delusion.
Also Expresso is super viral and probably gonna end up being a bigger hit mostly because Sabrina has way more room to grow but that doesn't mean Fortnight dropping below it makes it a flop. I see it as two pop ladies getting hits.
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jodakyellow
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Post by jodakyellow on Apr 28, 2024 1:17:38 GMT -5
Surely some were cassettes Well being a person who were there in 2000...I can report that 99.5% of those sales were CDs. Cassette and Vinyl were considered outdated technology. No one buys those and record companies back then don't really produce those in the late 90s and early 2000s. People throwed those away like garbage. I was there too. My copy of No Strings Attached was a cassette. |
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Apr 28, 2024 1:47:26 GMT -5
Some people here are wild. Are some people trying to take away from the fact that Fortnight is an insane success.
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Post by theycallmedualian on Apr 28, 2024 2:56:20 GMT -5
All of which are a bare minimum for any big acts?.. but because fortnight is a longer, slower, somewhat drawn-out- the middle song that sounded more like a Lana del Rey album track; everything that a generic pop song of the 2020sniscnkt, (sub 2min, great hook from the get go, simply lyrics that fits the chorus, which everything espresso is), shes is looking to be beaten by her tour opener in the near future. Thatβs like if you are a finance guy and the doorman of your company made a bigger more profitable investment than you. Fortnight literally made histtory as the first song to debut with 100M streams on Spotify. Please explain to me how that say this song hs limited commercial viability? Because Fortnight earned its historic debut day & week numbers, due to taylor's current fame and hype?.. outside of being a new taylor project, it wasnt doing that well on its own. it isnt going viral on tiktok like espresso or armetas or even cruel cruel summer has (so its not appealing to gen Z all that well). it didnt go on a multi-day surge/maintained a tiny percentage drop throughout the week; like 6 or 7 songs had done it this year. (so its unable to keep the huge audience it to reached from day1 interested). and lastly - it is gaining slower on radio than anti hero. EVERYTHING is showing you the only thing which this song has succeeded at is thriving off of taylor's big name, but it isnt finding successes beyond that. it is not taking off on its own. it is a factual proof that the song's outreach being limited. why? i dont know, but im willing to bet because it is slow, midtempo and downbeat? it wouldnt even matter if the sabrina song fails to overtake it, the point ive been making since the beginning still stands: had taylor just made a fast 2:30 minute,for a single, it wouldve been wider appealing. and for her to try and appeal to as many people as possible during the absolute peak of her game? she might never have these people back. edit: how did you guys got the notion that im denying fortnight as insanely successful? it absolutely is; its doing unheard of numbers on Spotify and shaping up to be the biggest pop song on AM ever (in a 12 month period at least). i am only point out that the single, album and era as a whole, is still aimed at her traditional audiences. given that shes reaching into newer audiences with how big she is right now, she ought make a project that would keep the new auidences around. this is what every label/execs/managers wouldve had their artists do. she's like following up Red with Speak Now 2.0 instead of 1989. |
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Apr 28, 2024 4:35:51 GMT -5
Fortnight literally made histtory as the first song to debut with 100M streams on Spotify. Please explain to me how that say this song hs limited commercial viability? Because Fortnight earned its historic debut day & week numbers, due to taylor's current fame and hype?.. outside of being a new taylor project, it wasnt doing that well on its own. it isnt going viral on tiktok like espresso or armetas or even cruel cruel summer has (so its not appealing to gen Z all that well). it didnt go on a multi-day surge/maintained a tiny percentage drop throughout the week; like 6 or 7 songs had done it this year. (so its unable to keep the huge audience it to reached from day1 interested). and lastly - it is gaining slower on radio than anti hero. EVERYTHING is showing you the only thing which this song has succeeded at is thriving off of taylor's big name, but it isnt finding successes beyond that. it is not taking off on its own. it is a factual proof that the song's outreach being limited. why? i dont know, but im willing to bet because it is slow, midtempo and downbeat? it wouldnt even matter if the sabrina song fails to overtake it, the point ive been making since the beginning still stands: had taylor just made a fast 2:30 minute,for a single, it wouldve been wider appealing. and for her to try and appeal to as many people as possible during the absolute peak of her game? she might never have these people back. You keep saynig that she should have made something more generic to get more appeal but isn't the fact she has her own style, isn't that more appealing? Isn't artistic longevity built on not just copying what everyone else is doing so you stand out more? Hell, Billie Eilish still gets good recurrent streams for her songs and many of them are also slow, midtempo, and downbeat. Also I'm sure whatever audience she might "never get back" were all that big to her to begin with. Like the NFL male audience, yeah I really think Taylor stays up at night worrying her music which has always appealed to a female demo isn't being played by more men. Or that she can't get back the South American audience despite being one of a handful of English acts that charts there. Yes the song didn't have a multi-day surge like Espresso...but Espresso also started out on a lower scale, it makes sense it could only go up. As you said in maintained a small and at times minimal percentage drop throughout the week, it hasn't been seeing big drops and the gap between it and Espresso is still sizable. Doesn't that show it doesn't have limited reach as you think? Also equating not going viral on TikTok = you don't appeal to Gen Z is faulty for a number of reasons. She is the biggest artist of the 21st Century and there isn't anyone close to her. Rather than whine she isn't a tenth richer than she could be, can't we appreciate her being one of a handful of artists who've managed to be this big and successful almost two decades into theri career? |
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Apr 28, 2024 9:08:42 GMT -5
It's not all the new accounts but it's always a new account.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Apr 28, 2024 10:54:09 GMT -5
EVERYTHING is showing you the only thing which this song has succeeded at is thriving off of taylor's big name, but it isnt finding successes beyond that. it is not taking off on its own. it is a factual proof that the song's outreach being limited. why? i dont know, but im willing to bet because it is slow, midtempo and downbeat? it wouldnt even matter if the sabrina song fails to overtake it, the point ive been making since the beginning still stands: had taylor just made a fast 2:30 minute,for a single, it wouldve been wider appealing. and for her to try and appeal to as many people as possible during the absolute peak of her game? she might never have these people back. edit: how did you guys got the notion that im denying fortnight as insanely successful? it absolutely is; its doing unheard of numbers on Spotify and shaping up to be the biggest pop song on AM ever (in a 12 month period at least). i am only point out that the single, album and era as a whole, is still aimed at her traditional audiences. given that shes reaching into newer audiences with how big she is right now, she ought make a project that would keep the new auidences around. this is what every label/execs/managers wouldve had their artists do. she's like following up Red with Speak Now 2.0 instead of 1989. You need to go into artist development and promotion because you have it figured out better than the ones already in the industry, particularly the team behind the current record-breaking release from Taylor. How they havenβt figured it out where you have is beyond me. |
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Post by Mayman on Apr 28, 2024 12:38:23 GMT -5
Fortnight literally made histtory as the first song to debut with 100M streams on Spotify. Please explain to me how that say this song hs limited commercial viability? Because Fortnight earned its historicΒ debut day & week numbers, due to taylor's current fame and hype?.. outside of being a new taylor project, it wasnt doing that well on its own. it isnt going viral on tiktok like espresso or armetas or even cruel cruel summer has (so its not appealing to gen Z all that well). it didnt go on a multi-day surge/maintained a tiny percentage drop throughout the week; like 6 or 7 songs had done it this year. (so its unable to keep the huge audience it to reached from day1 interested). and lastly - it is gaining slower on radioΒ than anti hero. EVERYTHING is showing you the only thing which this song has succeeded at is thriving off of taylor's big name, but it isnt finding successes beyond that. it is not taking off on its own. it is a factual proof that the song's outreach being limited. why? i dont know, but im willing to bet because it is slow, midtempo and downbeat?Β it wouldnt even matter if the sabrina song fails to overtake it, the point ive been making since the beginning still stands: had taylor just made a fast 2:30 minute,for a single, it wouldve been wider appealing. and for her to try and appeal to as many people as possible during the absolute peak of her game? she might never have these people back.Β edit: how did you guys got the notion that im denying fortnight as insanely successful? it absolutely is; its doing unheard of numbers on Spotify and shaping up to be the biggest pop song on AM ever (in a 12 month period at least). i am only point out that the single, album and era as a whole, is still aimed at her traditional audiences. given that shes reaching into newer audiences with how big she is right now, she ought make a project that would keep the new auidences around. this is what every label/execs/managers wouldve had their artists do. she's like following up Red with Speak Now 2.0 instead of 1989. Fortnight is having success outside of the album though? It's still the #1 song on Global Spotify whereas all of the other album tracks are doing less streams. It can't just be album listens when it's ahead of the other tracks by a good amount. It not being a viral song on TikTok doesn't really matter? Usually songs going viral on tiktok are songs that aren't already popular and then gain success after going viral there. This obviously didn't need that to still be successful, which is becoming more rare on the charts today. Not sure how one could think that's a bad thing. It "gainer slower at radio" when compared to Anti-Hero on radio so far is simply not true? It has less overall AI impressions and spins but that's because radio is continuously dropping in listeners overall and spins are down across the board due to less stations being counted toward the chart. Let's compare where both songs were in their runs at this point of release: POP: 25 20 TAYLOR SWIFT Anti-Hero 6861 2606 4255 23.628 30 13 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 6704 2076 4628 19.139 HOT AC: 25 12 TAYLOR SWIFT Anti-Hero 2916 1249 1667 13.165 24 13 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 2529 1111 1418 9.417 AC: 15 13 TAYLOR SWIFT Anti-Hero 281 193 88 0.943 19 14 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 271 129 142 1.003 I'd say both Anti-Hero and Fortnight are about on par with each other when comparing radio success. Considering the way radio has changed in just the last year and a half, I'd say both are performing pretty much the same. You keep making this point about her making songs that are more accessible and TikTok friendly but honestly that's the dumbest thing I've heard someone say an artist should do. I know Taylor is all about success on the charts, but one thing she has never done for charts is sacrifice her artistic integrity. Sure she's got a few songs like ME! or Shake It Off which are built for radio, but she's never strayed from making songs and albums that aren't HER. Saying an artist should dumb down their music to make for 5 second sound bites is just insane. Could you imagine if she did that and the criticism she would get? We already saw what happened with ME! She's Taylor Swift, she can put out anything and it'll be a hit right now. Why sacrifice your artistic integrity to appeal to people who aren't checking her out at the height of her popularity anyway? That doesn't make any sense. I honestly cannot tell if you're trolling or not because all of the posts that you have made in this thread have been absolutely off the wall. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2024 16:03:27 GMT -5
I will say I think youβd have to be lost pretty far down the Swiftie rabbit hole to not be able to recognize how much of Fortnightβs early success is on her brand power. Who heard that song and thinks βinstant smash hit!!β Itβs just not that kind of song. Major props to what itβs pulled off this week though, but it definitely is more what Taylor Swift the megastar has pulled off. The song is relatively incidental in this case, this was just gonna happen with the TTPD lead (unless tons of people loathed it, which obviously isnβt the case). I just canβt imagine a universe where Fortnight was doing exceptional things on charts right now as the new Katy Perry single (or even the new Ariana single if we want to use a far more relevant artist but not Taylor level).
What I really would have loved to have seen is if she could have dropped a CS or Anti-Hero obvious mega smash on us as the TTPD lead - the slayage would have just been absurd and I would have liked to see just how stratospheric a song like that could have gone this week under these circumstances.
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Post by theycallmedualian on Apr 28, 2024 16:26:24 GMT -5
EVERYTHING is showing you the only thing which this song has succeeded at is thriving off of taylor's big name, but it isnt finding successes beyond that. it is not taking off on its own. it is a factual proof that the song's outreach being limited. why? i dont know, but im willing to bet because it is slow, midtempo and downbeat? it wouldnt even matter if the sabrina song fails to overtake it, the point ive been making since the beginning still stands: had taylor just made a fast 2:30 minute,for a single, it wouldve been wider appealing. and for her to try and appeal to as many people as possible during the absolute peak of her game? she might never have these people back. edit: how did you guys got the notion that im denying fortnight as insanely successful? it absolutely is; its doing unheard of numbers on Spotify and shaping up to be the biggest pop song on AM ever (in a 12 month period at least). i am only point out that the single, album and era as a whole, is still aimed at her traditional audiences. given that shes reaching into newer audiences with how big she is right now, she ought make a project that would keep the new auidences around. this is what every label/execs/managers wouldve had their artists do. she's like following up Red with Speak Now 2.0 instead of 1989. You need to go into artist development and promotion because you have it figured out better than the ones already in the industry, particularly the team behind the current record-breaking release from Taylor. How they havenβt figured it out where you have is beyond me. What she did right now with following up midnights with TTPD is akin to following up Red with Speak Now 2 instead of 1989. She isnβt expanding into the pop field, DESPITE being in a prime position to do so. Shes just making something for the country audience which she already had on lock. you would be out here saying βand whatβs wrong with that? Sheβs now the biggest country singer so of course she shouldnβt go pop.β Mayman @mayman i mean, thats just standard singles performance? now youre arguing FOR my point now though, cant you see? at first i said fortnight's commercial-ability is limited due to its slowness. you guys said it wasnt. then i pointed out it is not clicking with the tiktok crowd, and you said it didnt need to. by doing so you have already conceded that its commercial-ability has its limits. billboard switch radio tracking format a bit after anti-hero's release, it is picking up 15%-20% impression compared to the past. yet it was still doing a bit worse. youre keep making strawman arguments, taking the very extremes of what other people COULD be saying, but not at all what they said. all ive stated from the beginning was she shouldve made a quicker single, such as a "cruel summer' which is very mush still "her" and was viral on tiktok without aiming to do so. maybe if you hadnt so negatively overcharged other people's words, it wouldnt have came off as off the wall or trolling. |
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Post by theycallmedualian on Apr 28, 2024 16:37:17 GMT -5
I will say I think youβd have to be lost pretty far down the Swiftie rabbit hole to not be able to recognize how much of Fortnightβs early success is on her brand power. Who heard that song and thinks βinstant smash hit!!β Itβs just not that kind of song. Major props to what itβs pulled off this week though, but it definitely is more what Taylor Swift the megastar has pulled off. The song is relatively incidental in this case, this was just gonna happen with the TTPD lead (unless tons of people loathed it, which obviously isnβt the case). I just canβt imagine a universe where Fortnight was doing exceptional things on charts right now as the new Katy Perry single (or even the new Ariana single if we want to use a far more relevant artist but not Taylor level). What I really would have loved to have seen is if she could have dropped a CS or Anti-Hero obvious mega smash on us as the TTPD lead - the slayage would have just been absurd and I would have liked to see just how stratospheric a song like that could have gone this week under these circumstances. Exactly what Iβm saying. Think of what happens if she just dropped another Cruel Summer, one that genZ goes crazy for as well & went viral on tiktok + whatever else. Sheβd be doing even crazier numbers. But now sheβs about to be overtaken by a her tour opener. Why? Because her tour opener made a catchy-oriented song like cruel summer. Itβs crazy how much people would argue with you on things that are almost objectively true. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Apr 28, 2024 17:41:31 GMT -5
You need to go into artist development and promotion because you have it figured out better than the ones already in the industry, particularly the team behind the current record-breaking release from Taylor. How they havenβt figured it out where you have is beyond me. What she did right now with following up midnights with TTPD is akin to following up Red with Speak Now 2 instead of 1989. She isnβt expanding into the pop field, DESPITE being in a prime position to do so. Shes just making something for the country audience which she already had on lock. you would be out here saying βand whatβs wrong with that? Sheβs now the biggest country singer so of course she shouldnβt go pop.β Okay but you're arguing that she should make something literally every other pop starlet is doing in order to attain an easy hit, which she doesn't need to do anyway because her name grants her the ability to get an easy hit with any song she'd release. She could have put out a basic 2:30 pop song with a catchy 2-line hook and no personality and everyone would have dragged her for it because she's moved beyond needing to do that again. She's already done it (sort of) with "We Are Never Getting Back Together" and "Shake It Off". Is that something people want from Taylor Swift right now? I argue no. You argue she would gain a bigger audience with it and I argue, no, she wouldn't. She would lose some of her audience now and she certainly isn't going to win over new people with something basic because she already has a brand. Anytime I see anyone say an established (and currently successful) pop artist should make generic pop music, I scream inside. We have dozens of pop artists who are up-and-coming, or struggling to maintain a level of popularity they have, who are making generic pop music. Much of these songs are fun and great and for many artists, they're a necessary step in order to make it long-term. Why do we need everyone from Taylor Swift to Beyonce to Lady Gaga to also be making basic pop songs when they've already established themselves beyond them? How is it going to benefit their careers beyond getting them another number on the charts. It's not going to do anything for their legacy or help them in the long run. Especially with Taylor and Beyonce, people know who they are. They might not always know what to expect with their music (especially Beyonce) but one thing we do know (and are thankful for), is that they're not going to insult us by making a 2 and a half minute basic af pop song. In all seriousness, and no offence to you at all, but your posts are wrong plain and simple. They're probably the most wrong I've seen here in a long time. |
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Apr 28, 2024 17:47:43 GMT -5
Why is "Fortnight" being a hit bc of her fame an issue though????? Literally any established act gets a lot of early traction bc of name recognition. It's why they work so hard to... become established. It's how they get the "yes and?" and the "Yummy" crap to chart high... the songs are still selling regardless and there's no weekly chart measure for "do people like this or is it just overhyped?". When a song plummets after that hype then we can have a chat about overhype ("TROLLZ", any and all BTS songs, "HISS")
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Post by theycallmedualian on Apr 28, 2024 18:00:24 GMT -5
What she did right now with following up midnights with TTPD is akin to following up Red with Speak Now 2 instead of 1989. She isnβt expanding into the pop field, DESPITE being in a prime position to do so. Shes just making something for the country audience which she already had on lock. you would be out here saying βand whatβs wrong with that? Sheβs now the biggest country singer so of course she shouldnβt go pop.β Okay but you're arguing that she should make something literally every other pop starlet is doing in order to attain an easy hit, which she doesn't need to do anyway because her name grants her the ability to get an easy hit with any song she'd release. youre still missing my point, I've never said she should do a quick single simply for the sake of getting a hit. im saying the genre and tempo of TS11 shouldve cater to people outside of her base & made much easier for mass appealing, which these slower midtempo downbeat songs, including fortnight, arent. ill reiterate the point from my very first comment: shes attracting a lot of NEW audiences, especially in europe and LATAM (the two regions where she has always did worse in) with her massive tour and media frenzies the last year; so she shouldve used this opportunity to lock down these new audiences. instead, she didnt and now espresso have already overtook fortnight on UK spotify, probably will overtake it on their next week's charts. all ive been arguing is that she is kind of squandering all this newfound attention in EU & SA shes created from the last 2 years, and i am right. she can always go back to releasing slow mid tempo songs and have NA/AUS/asia eat it up. |
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Post by theycallmedualian on Apr 28, 2024 18:07:09 GMT -5
Why is "Fortnight" being a hit bc of her fame an issue though????? Literally any established act gets a lot of early traction bc of name recognition. It's why they work so hard to... become established. It's how they get the "yes and?" and the "Yummy" crap to chart high... the songs are still selling regardless and there's no weekly chart measure for "do people like this or is it just overhyped?". When a song plummets after that hype then we can have a chat about overhype ("TROLLZ", any and all BTS songs, "HISS") shes the biggest star of the last 20 years and her latest single is gonna get overtaken by her tour opener. you still dont see the tempo of fortnight and TTPD as a little bit of a misstep? |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Apr 28, 2024 18:40:54 GMT -5
shes the biggest star of the last 20 years and her latest single is gonna get overtaken by her tour opener. you still dont see the tempo of fortnight and TTPD as a little bit of a misstep? Why should she feel threatened by that? The single and album are literally breaking records right now. If another single by another artist, regardless of who that is, takes over a chart position next week or next month, who cares? If you're seriously this concerned over Billboard chart placements, the mistake is fully on you. I promise you - music fan to music fan - Taylor will be perfectly okay. :) Okay but you're arguing that she should make something literally every other pop starlet is doing in order to attain an easy hit, which she doesn't need to do anyway because her name grants her the ability to get an easy hit with any song she'd release. youre still missing my point, I've never said she should do a quick single simply for the sake of getting a hit. im saying the genre and tempo of TS11 shouldve cater to people outside of her base & made much easier for mass appealing, which these slower midtempo downbeat songs, including fortnight, arent. ill reiterate the point from my very first comment: shes attracting a lot of NEW audiences, especially in europe and LATAM (the two regions where she has always did worse in) with her massive tour and media frenzies the last year; so she shouldve used this opportunity to lock down these new audiences. instead, she didnt and now espresso have already overtook fortnight on UK spotify, probably will overtake it on their next week's charts. all ive been arguing is that she is kind of squandering all this newfound attention in EU & SA shes created from the last 2 years, and i am right. she can always go back to releasing slow mid tempo songs and have NA/AUS/asia eat it up. Sorry, read these backwards. Catering to a larger audience is frequently a bad idea when it comes to "art". Now, I know people may laugh at a major pop star in the context of "art" but for the sake of argument, and for the sake of advancing and moving music forward (rather than staying stagnant), it's a requirement for the health of pop music - mainstream of not - to not simply appeal to mass audiences. All due respect to the general populace, but the "general public" isn't the smartest base to want to appeal to. In order to appeal to win audiences, you're almost required to dumb things down to the simplest terms. And that applies to anything. Movies. Food. Music. Appealing to everyone pretty much means it has to be bland and boring. Taylor has succeeded in winning new audiences in the last 5 years. I'm one of them. And as a result, she's breaking nearly every record possible. If this were her peak (and we've been saying this since 2020), and everything was gradually downhill from here. She'd be fine. You argue that she should do more to keep the new audiences. I'd argue that by putting out an album like this, she's doing more to keep the less fickle fans who would be more likely to stick with her for longer because they're giving them what they want and expect. Yeah, she could aim for more is more right now and try to appeal to wider audiences, and she could very well succeed in doing that, but would it pay off in the long run? Maybe, maybe not. But my argument is that she's cementing the fandom of less-fickle audiences. So yeah, "Espresso" may end up a bigger hit in the end, and it could help push Sabrina into the next tier as a pop star, but will it elevate her to superstar status? Doubtful, unless she can repeat its hypothetical success many times over. Taylor is already there. Everyone knows who she is. She consistently gets great word-of-mouth (even in the face of the criticism of this album). Everyone has an opinion on her. If they still don't like her after X number of hits and albums across nearly 2 decades, there's not much else she can do to win them over now. |
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Post by eyeofthestorm on Apr 28, 2024 18:56:05 GMT -5
^ I would say NSYNCs are all cds because iTunes didn't exist yet and vinyls weren't a thing then. Surely some were cassettes oh yeah how could i forget those lol |
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Post by suburbandreams on Apr 28, 2024 20:04:30 GMT -5
Taylor has succeeded in winning new audiences in the last 5 years. I'm one of them. And as a result, she's breaking nearly every record possible. If this were her peak (and we've been saying this since 2020), and everything was gradually downhill from here. She'd be fine. You argue that she should do more to keep the new audiences. I'd argue that by putting out an album like this, she's doing more to keep the less fickle fans who would be more likely to stick with her for longer because they're giving them what they want and expect. Yeah, she could aim for more is more right now and try to appeal to wider audiences, and she could very well succeed in doing that, but would it pay off in the long run? Maybe, maybe not. But my argument is that she's cementing the fandom of less-fickle audiences. So yeah, "Espresso" may end up a bigger hit in the end, and it could help push Sabrina into the next tier as a pop star, but will it elevate her to superstar status? Doubtful, unless she can repeat its hypothetical success many times over. Taylor is already there. Everyone knows who she is. She consistently gets great word-of-mouth (even in the face of the criticism of this album). Everyone has an opinion on her. If they still don't like her after X number of hits and albums across nearly 2 decades, there's not much else she can do to win them over now. Also Sabrina's literally just ended her opening gig for Taylor. Taylor has been promoting her. Sabrina becoming a superstar is not a threat to Taylor. There can be more than one female superstar at the time. Althrough it will take more than one bit hit to make her a superstar. And as you said, Taylor doesn't need world conquering singles to remain a superstar. Cardigan literally was a one week number one with a big second week collapse. But folklore and cardigan still helped her career and cardigan ended up having great streaming longetivity in the long run. |
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Post by Mayman on Apr 28, 2024 21:24:15 GMT -5
Mayman @mayman i mean, thats just standard singles performance? now youre arguing FOR my point now though, cant you see? at first i said fortnight's commercial-ability is limited due to its slowness. you guys said it wasnt. then i pointed out it is not clicking with the tiktok crowd, and you said it didnt need to. by doing so you have already conceded that its commercial-ability has its limits. billboard switch radio tracking format a bit after anti-hero's release, it is picking up 15%-20% impression compared to the past. yet it was still doing a bit worse. youre keep making strawman arguments, taking the very extremes of what other people COULD be saying, but not at all what they said. all ive stated from the beginning was she shouldve made a quicker single, such as a "cruel summer' which is very mush still "her" and was viral on tiktok without aiming to do so. maybe if you hadnt so negatively overcharged other people's words, it wouldnt have came off as off the wall or trolling. Is it standard single performance? We see all the time album tracks doing great numbers and eventually overtake singles, forcing the labels hand to make another song a single instead. "Fortnight" is currently performing well. Who cares if it's "standard" or not, seems like arguing to just argue over nothing. I never said that the "Fortnight" has limited commercial appeal. I didn't address that anywhere in my statement. Not sure how you made that connection to my discussion on its TikTok success. I don't have a strong opinion either way on that topic, sure it's slower but it's a catchy track with a hot feature. I don't see it any less commercially viable than say "Lavender Haze" or "Willow." I'm saying it doesn't need that virality on TikTok as it's already successful and well known by the GP. Usually we see album tracks or less successful tracks go viral on TikTok, which leads to more attention to said track on other platforms such as Spotify. "Fortnight" is already well known - it doesn't need a TikTok trend to boost up. I'm not sure why that's the criteria you're using for a hit - as songs can be a success without being used for a few seconds in videos on there. I'm not fully informed on the Billboard changes, but I know that it's performing similarly to "Anti-Hero" on Mediabase. Not entirely sure why you completely ignored that but again I think you're arguing for the sake to just argue. Audience impressions and spins are going down by the month, so of course it may not exactly align. Looking at the bigger picture and comparing to others, it's performing similarly on Mediabase. It's not a drastic difference, nor much of a difference at all, as you're making it out to be. I think there are songs on the album that can fit your description of what you are looking for. "Broken Heart" and "Down Bad" seem TikTok-ready without having to make a dumbed-down 2:30 track that would sacrifice her artistic integrity that she has built up with each album. It seems like there's a certain direction she was taking with this album. More lyric-heavy tracks with slightly more complex production than she usually does. I think the album that you want is what Midnights was. Single-ready tracks that have mass appeal. It's clear with this album she did not want to do that. With such a fast turnaround between each release, I'm sure there will be single ready releases on Reputation TV or TS12 to satisfy what you're looking for. In order to not grow stale (which she's already being criticized for despite going in a somewhat different direction with this album), she wrote the album she "needed to write" rather focus on radio and TikTok success. Is that a bad thing? Well it can be if you're looking at it through the lense of charts, which she was going to do well on no matter what. If you're looking at it through an artistic direction, I'd say this album was a win. If that effects her "commercial viability" then so be it - she's Taylor Swift. Anything she does right now will be successful. Just looking at how massive the Folklore album was, next to no radio friendliness but it's become one of her signature albums. |
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Post by Mayman on Apr 28, 2024 21:31:41 GMT -5
I will say I think youβd have to be lost pretty far down the Swiftie rabbit hole to not be able to recognize how much of Fortnightβs early success is on her brand power. Who heard that song and thinks βinstant smash hit!!β Itβs just not that kind of song. Major props to what itβs pulled off this week though, but it definitely is more what Taylor Swift the megastar has pulled off. The song is relatively incidental in this case, this was just gonna happen with the TTPD lead (unless tons of people loathed it, which obviously isnβt the case). I just canβt imagine a universe where Fortnight was doing exceptional things on charts right now as the new Katy Perry single (or even the new Ariana single if we want to use a far more relevant artist but not Taylor level). What I really would have loved to have seen is if she could have dropped a CS or Anti-Hero obvious mega smash on us as the TTPD lead - the slayage would have just been absurd and I would have liked to see just how stratospheric a song like that could have gone this week under these circumstances. Exactly what Iβm saying. Think of what happens if she just dropped another Cruel Summer, one that genZ goes crazy for as well & went viral on tiktok + whatever else. Sheβd be doing even crazier numbers. But now sheβs about to be overtaken by a her tour opener. Why? Because her tour opener made a catchy-oriented song like cruel summer. Itβs crazy how much people would argue with you on things that are almost objectively true. And don't get me wrong - I think having a song like "Cruel Summer" would be great. That's not the point I'm arguing - it's the point that you originally made about her dumbing her music down to a 2:30 TikTok bait song. I think when she's looking for a smash hit, she can find the best of both worlds with songs like "Anti-Hero." I agree with certain points, it's the points you made in your OP where you implied she should essentially drop something that specifically appeals to TikTok is where I disagree. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. I think "Fortnight" will end up being a solid hit for her and will be followed up with another single or two. It might not end up being her biggest hit, but it'll get the job done. I think choosing the song as the lead will help with her not too overexposed on radio, as it's not a very polarizing song like say "Karma." |
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Post by Mayman on Apr 28, 2024 21:41:06 GMT -5
What she did right now with following up midnights with TTPD is akin to following up Red with Speak Now 2 instead of 1989. She isnβt expanding into the pop field, DESPITE being in a prime position to do so. Shes just making something for the country audience which she already had on lock. you would be out here saying βand whatβs wrong with that? Sheβs now the biggest country singer so of course she shouldnβt go pop.β Okay but you're arguing that she should make something literally every other pop starlet is doing in order to attain an easy hit, which she doesn't need to do anyway because her name grants her the ability to get an easy hit with any song she'd release. She could have put out a basic 2:30 pop song with a catchy 2-line hook and no personality and everyone would have dragged her for it because she's moved beyond needing to do that again. She's already done it (sort of) with "We Are Never Getting Back Together" and "Shake It Off". Is that something people want from Taylor Swift right now? I argue no. You argue she would gain a bigger audience with it and I argue, no, she wouldn't. She would lose some of her audience now and she certainly isn't going to win over new people with something basic because she already has a brand. Anytime I see anyone say an established (and currently successful) pop artist should make generic pop music, I scream inside. We have dozens of pop artists who are up-and-coming, or struggling to maintain a level of popularity they have, who are making generic pop music. Much of these songs are fun and great and for many artists, they're a necessary step in order to make it long-term. Why do we need everyone from Taylor Swift to Beyonce to Lady Gaga to also be making basic pop songs when they've already established themselves beyond them? How is it going to benefit their careers beyond getting them another number on the charts. It's not going to do anything for their legacy or help them in the long run. Especially with Taylor and Beyonce, people know who they are. They might not always know what to expect with their music (especially Beyonce) but one thing we do know (and are thankful for), is that they're not going to insult us by making a 2 and a half minute basic af pop song. In all seriousness, and no offence to you at all, but your posts are wrong plain and simple. They're probably the most wrong I've seen here in a long time. This is exactly the point I was trying to make. You worded it way better than I could. Again, my main disagreement was with the points she should sacrifice her artistic integrity for a TikTok hit. I feel she's past the need for that. It's clear within the last few years she can get viral hits while still making music that isn't catered specifically for it (see: Anti-Hero, Cruel Summer, Is It Over Now?, August, even You're Losing Me). What helped with her recent repeak was the acclaim of Folklore and Evermore. People wanted more mature offerings and they responded well with those albums and her other recent albums. I think going back and trying to make another "ME!" or "You Need To Calm Down" would be a bad decision, especially with the acclaim she has received that has helped with getting her back to that top slot in the pop world. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Apr 28, 2024 23:04:12 GMT -5
And quite frankly, it's nice to have an artist who's able to success in as big a way as Taylor without having to rely on 5-second audio clips through TikTok. Bring attention spans back to pop music for the love of all that's holy.
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