Unexpected
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Post by Unexpected on Nov 24, 2003 22:43:19 GMT -5
Is it just me or do some people stress way too much of an artist's credibility on vocal ability and power? It's easy to dismiss someone as not talented because their voice isn't striking or doen't bring chills down their spine when they hit the right notes. I've noticed this especially in some Aguilera or Mariah fans in other message boards in that they first thing they mention about an artist is how their voice sounds (usually how it sucks). I'm not saying that it's not important, but that people generally make too much of a big deal about it.
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jimmy74747
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Post by jimmy74747 on Nov 24, 2003 22:47:31 GMT -5
To me its songwriting and hooks that makes a song.
You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't something good to work with, whats the point. Plus certain songs can not by sung by a Mariah or Christina. She would kill a song like "Complicated"
However, a strong voice like a Mariah Carey can make a song better.
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Nov 24, 2003 23:05:35 GMT -5
To me, overall voice doesn't matter. I won't not like a song if the voice is plain or nothing great (i.e.... Britney, Enrique, Avril, Brandy, etc.... and yes I know some of those sing better than others, and no I do not necessarily like all the artists I listed here)
However, there are some times when I think a voice does ruin a song: 1. When a voice is SO bad that the artist should not even be singing... examples: J. Lo, Ashanti 2. If a voice is really weird/sounds off-key... examples: Macy Gray, some Nelly Furtado
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Nov 24, 2003 23:11:03 GMT -5
Well I am drawn to some artists because of their vocal ability. Like Christina Aguilera. Great vocals impress me and I do not think that is wrong. But I do think that many different artists have great voices-not just female diva-like voices. I happen to really like Nelly Furtado's voice. I love Sarah Maclachlan's as well. I saw John Mayer on Friday live and his voice was amazing-strong and he never wavered or broke. I think that even if you do not have a loud booming hold notes forever voice, its ok, you can stilll be a good singer or have an expressive or unique voice.
Terrible vocal ability can turn me away from an artist. I like Britney Spears' music sometimes, but the fact that she lips 90% of her performances and hides a lot of her voice in her songs by talking/layered beats turns me off from being a big fan of hers. Every performance I have heard of Michelle Branch live has been horrendous-her screeching half offkey. To some extent, that affects how much I like her music as well.
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Control
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Post by Control on Nov 24, 2003 23:11:35 GMT -5
I don't think someone has to have amazing vocals to be credible. To me it's an either/or kind of situation.
If you don't have great input into your own music, such as writing or instruments or production, then you should have a great voice (a la Celine, Whitney).
If you have an average voice, then you should be very involved in the creative aspect of your career, with writing, producing, etc. (a la Janet, Madonna).
And there are those who have both, and that's just a bonus. But for me personally to take someone seriously in music and believe that they have a rightful place, then they should fall into one of those two situations.
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Zander
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Post by Zander on Nov 25, 2003 4:37:00 GMT -5
A good voice is nice, but I would much rather be a fan of someone with awesome songs and limited vocal talent than someone with a really amazing voice and crappy songs.
I've also found that people who dismiss artists purely because they don't have a great voice tend to be more uptight and unable to have a sense of humor about their music.
Music is supposed to be fun to listen to, people need to lighten up and not take things so seriously. There are things to be appreciated about every artist.
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jond7699
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Post by jond7699 on Nov 25, 2003 8:15:57 GMT -5
I'd break it down like this. I respect Mariah and Christina's musical ability. Both of their voices are amazing at times. I love a high pitched scream when it can be done right That being said I also respect those artist whose voice isn't as strong (ala Madonna & Britney). In fact Britney's new cd is probably my most played cd right now I absolutely love most of the songs but her voice does suck live oh well. That just means I won't go see her concert but I still will jam to her album on the dance floor I think that is what kingofnyc is trying to say. Dont discredit someone just because they don't have a great voice because sometimes music is just suppose to be fun.
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Ragin
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Post by Ragin on Nov 25, 2003 8:27:53 GMT -5
Maybe it is overrated. I mean I agree with what most have said that if it's a crappy song it doesn't matter who is singing it. You could make the same argument, though that song writing is a bit overrated. I like Bob Dylan's songs, but very few can I stand with him actually singing them. It takes the whole package in my opinion to make a great song.
One thing, I really detest, however, is someone who has their music basically written and produced by other people AND also has no real vocal talent. I consider Britney Spears in that category. That's not even to say she doesn't have some good songs, but I can't say I think she has earned too much of her fame.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 25, 2003 9:29:45 GMT -5
Agreed! Vocal talent is used in a lot of cases here as a way to put some artists higher up on the "who'se better than who" list. To me, vocal talent (in the sense of Whitney, Celine, Christina, Mariah, etc) means next to nothing in how well I like a song/artist. If I had a list of criteria that I used when liking a song, singing like the artists listed above would be near dead-last. I think a singer that doesn't have as much a range or vocal capabilities can display just as much emotion in their songs as singers that do have the range. I guess it probably depends on the type of song you sing. I'm the type of person that loves the impurities and imperfections of a song. It adds something to a song. If a song is "perfectly" recorded with "perfect" vocals, it's smooth and thus there's nothing really special about it. Imperfections make a song unique. Plus, I like good instrumentation over good vocalization anyways.
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Post by radiorules on Nov 25, 2003 13:19:46 GMT -5
To me, vocal talent is UNDERRATED. It kills me everytime how artists like Britney, Beyonce, J.lo, Ashanti are so popular, yet they don't even bother singing live and half of the time they get so much credit for doing absolutely nothing. A Singer should be someone who sings, and is good at it. If you have weak vocals but you are a good songwriter, then become a song writer. If you have weak vocals but you are a good dancer, then become a freakin dancer. Why must all these artists show off their songwritting skills, or their dance skills in their music if they can't even sing? So what if someone knows how to play an insturement, does that make them talented in that department, yes. But does it make them talented in singing? no. I espechally hate it when someone comes and says "Just because [insert name] has a good voice, it doesn't mean that they are a true artist. A true artist is someone who knows how to play an insturement", yet we can switch this statement around and say "Just because [insert name] plays insturements, it doesn't mean that they are a true artist. A true artist is someone who has a good voice". Sometimes people's biaseness really kills me.
If people are going to sit here and say that Christina, or Mariah, or whoever are not "True" artists and not as talented compared to Michelle Branch or Sheryl Crow is a bunch of bull s**t. All of them write most of their music, and the only difference is that Christina and Mariah can sing, and Michelle and Sheryl Crow can play insturements.
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jimmy74747
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Post by jimmy74747 on Nov 25, 2003 13:25:28 GMT -5
Reason #1 why vocal talent is overrated:
Hilary Duff "So Yesterday". She is as bad a vocalist as anyone with a record deal, yet that's a great song. I could care less if she can't sing, write or play instruments. The song is so darn catchy.
And radiorules, Beyonce can sing. She doesn't sing at awards shows because of the choreography. It woldn't sound as good. Listen to her on the Destiny's Child CD's. She has vocal talent.
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jimmy74747
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Post by jimmy74747 on Nov 25, 2003 13:27:05 GMT -5
Sometimes people's biaseness really kills me. This has to be the 2003 Quote of the Year
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Post by radiorules on Nov 25, 2003 13:30:43 GMT -5
I know Beyonce can sing, but it's too bad she had to throw herself into the Britney/J.lo category, rather than the Mariah/Christina category.
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Ragin
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Post by Ragin on Nov 25, 2003 14:14:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't say vocal ability is overrated. The way we define vocal ability is though. The definition of great vocals nowadays is how loud someone can get (Celine, Mariah, Christina, Whitney). And while that kind of singing is nice for certain kinds of songs, it gets old really quick. Most of those singers seem to attack songs rather than sing them. And when their not singing at the top of their lungs, they're riffing and trilling all over the place. Pick a note already! I prefer artists who can interpret a song and convey the emotions necessary to sell the song. Look at Madonna, she has a pretty weak voice compared to the aforementioned big-voiced divas, but she can sing a ballad more convincingly IMO. As much as I love Mariah, she's never had a ballad as moving as say "Promise To Try" or "Oh Father." Look at Sade, look at Erykah Badu, look at Anita Baker, look at Luther Vandross. They all have good voices in their own right, and they know what kind of vocals a certain song needs to succeed. Belting is not always necessary. The example I always use is Whitney Houston's remake of "I Will Always Love You." I know most of you will disagree, but I think it's absolutely terrible. Dolly Parton has a fairly weak voice, especially compared to Whitney, but she sold the song more convincingly. Whitney took a simple, heart-felt love song, and beat it to death with her vocal histrionics. Sure, she hits some impressive notes, but the vocals just weren't appropriate for the subject matter. Listening to the first disc of Whitney's greatest hits CD (which is mostly ballads), I realized how bland her music and style of singing really is. Every song sounds the same. I SO completely agree with this.
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Radical347
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Post by Radical347 on Nov 25, 2003 16:19:30 GMT -5
Yes, vocal talent (or at least vocal talent as we know it) is overrated simply because people try to use it as an excuse to explain why crappy songs (i.e. Lady Marmalade) are good. The -real- vocal talent is not how good of a voice you have, but how you can manage your song with it. Sure, it helps to have a good voice, but it's useless if you don't know how to put it into a song. An example of a singer with a good voice that knows how to work it right is Sade.
That being said, some people (i.e. Chantal Kreviazuk) have voices so bad that try as they may, there's no way that they'll have a good song unless their voice is put through a digital rock-polishing machine.
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irice22
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Post by irice22 on Nov 25, 2003 16:30:21 GMT -5
If you write your own songs I don't think you need a good voice. If you don't write your own songs I think you are more deserving the better voice you have. For instance, I think there are people much better thn Stacie Orrico out there that deserve record deals. I like Stacie Orrico and her songs, I just don't really think as an overall artist she is all that great.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Nov 25, 2003 19:23:41 GMT -5
Yes Vocal Talent is overrated. I like any song no matter how bad the voice is. I like a song for what it is. I can't stand listening to singers who scream constantly in their music. I like music that is fun.
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Crushcrushchris
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Post by Crushcrushchris on Nov 25, 2003 20:35:05 GMT -5
It kills me everytime how artists like Britney, Beyonce, J.lo, Ashanti are so popular, yet they don't even bother singing live and half of the time they get so much credit for doing absolutely nothing. Z-100 was talking about this the night after the American Music Awards. They were saying how they were upset at the fact that Britney and Beyonce weren't singing. The funny part about it is that Britney was supposed to play a show later in the week for them so what do they do? They play "new music" by Britney 'Breathe On Me'. I was upset with that because they couldn't give props to those who were singing live. And if Hilary Duff sang live from what I heard (I missed the awards show), I will lose respect in Britney, Beyonce, and whoever else wasn't up for the task. Unless they had an excuse like if they were really sick, but I doubt it. I don't care if both Britney and Beyonce already know how to sing live. At least Hilary had the guts to put her voice out there for better or worse in front of millions of people.
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halo19
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Post by halo19 on Nov 25, 2003 21:05:35 GMT -5
It is overrated. Most people base how much they like a particular artist over that. There is sometimes when the focus is the voice, but when listening to Bob Dylan, it's more for the lyrics than the vocals. Plus, if the album's got cool-sounding noise in it, no matter how off-key the singer sounds, chances are I'm gonna love it. And sometimes it's not an actual musical element that makes it so great, just the way that the song blends. But I base things more on that stuff than I do vocal talent.
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Post by FriendsFan on Nov 25, 2003 21:52:03 GMT -5
Vocal talent overrated? Yes. It doesn't really matter if [insert artist] has this outstanding pipes, for me what matters most is the song.
And I think its stupid to say, if you're a good dancer, you should stick at only dancing. If every artist was like that, well... the music scene will be pretty boring.
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strong4PMB!
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Post by strong4PMB! on Nov 25, 2003 22:00:48 GMT -5
Yes. It is overrated.
Sure, I like my Angela Vias and Mariah Careys. But I also like my Ashantis and Hilary Duffs. I like them all. Their songs just have to be good.
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Post by FriendsFan on Nov 25, 2003 23:01:31 GMT -5
Yes. It is overrated. Sure, I like my Angela Vias and Mariah Careys. But I also like my Ashantis and Hilary Duffs. I like them all. Their songs just have to be good. Just wanted to say I agree with you geoguy. :)
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strong4PMB!
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Post by strong4PMB! on Nov 25, 2003 23:06:45 GMT -5
Just wanted to say I agree with you geoguy. :) Thank you! It's always great to see new Angela Via fans. Welcome to the loyal family. (j/k)
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irice22
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Post by irice22 on Nov 26, 2003 0:24:23 GMT -5
I didn't fully undrstand the topic at first, but yes vocal talent is overrated. I don't think a better voice make a song have a better tune. Of course, I won't listen to a song if someone's voice was intolerable (i.e. Macy Gray).
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Post by radiorules on Nov 26, 2003 1:03:47 GMT -5
I disagree, the reasons why songs like "Lady Marmalade" were huge hits (besides the song being good) was because of the powerful voices on the record. People love to sing along to oversung records because in my opinion it's fun to try and see if you can sing like them. For example, everytime someone sings a Christina song, (guy or girl) they always try to copy her style and i think that's the fun thing about it, and that's what makes her records a hit. It really is fun to try and mimick artists like Mariah and Christina. And in my opinion that's why Christina has hit records more than that other artist who can't score top 10 hits even though her music is decent.
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crash46
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Post by crash46 on Nov 26, 2003 2:33:25 GMT -5
I'll tell you what's overrated: Vocal range. Like you get the people that are saying "Christina Aguilera has a three octave range; she's so talented!". Hey that's great. I could give a rats ass if you have a sixty octave range if you can't refrain from utilizing it in the most teeth-gnashingly annoying manner imaginable.
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strong4PMB!
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Post by strong4PMB! on Nov 26, 2003 3:28:51 GMT -5
I disagree, the reasons why songs like "Lady Marmalade" were huge hits (besides the song being good) was because of the powerful voices on the record. People love to sing along to oversung records because in my opinion it's fun to try and see if you can sing like them. For example, everytime someone sings a Christina song, (guy or girl) they always try to copy her style and i think that's the fun thing about it, and that's what makes her records a hit. It really is fun to try and mimick artists like Mariah and Christina. And in my opinion that's why Christina has hit records more than that other artist who can't score top 10 hits even though her music is decent. lol Interesting perspective. Really.
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Ragin
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Post by Ragin on Nov 26, 2003 6:55:45 GMT -5
I'll tell you what's overrated: Vocal range. Like you get the people that are saying "Christina Aguilera has a three octave range; she's so talented!". Hey that's great. I could give a rats ass if you have a sixty octave range if you can't refrain from utilizing it in the most teeth-gnashingly annoying manner imaginable. I don't think range is overrated, it is impressive. I think it is overused though. There's a difference between the two. I find it highly annoying when singers oversing every song they do (we discussed this on another thread one time it seems). That should not, and in my opinion does not take away from the impressiveness of the range of the voice. When an opera singer does it, you can't say it is overrated, if anything it is underrated. Overused is maybe a better word.
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Post by FriendsFan on Nov 26, 2003 13:23:53 GMT -5
For example, everytime someone sings a Christina song, (guy or girl) they always try to copy her style In other words, Mariah's style. ;) Such a cheap shot, atleast Britney Spears is hotter than some conceited dirrty brat.
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Post by radiorules on Nov 26, 2003 14:35:53 GMT -5
In other words, Mariah's style. ;) Such a cheap shot, atleast Britney Spears is hotter than some conceited dirrty brat. Britney wasn't the one named "Hottest Woman Of The Year" by Maxim and Blender And btw, do you guys honestly think that Christina oversings on her records? I mean i could understand on LM but how about her songs off of "Stripped"? i really think her she has had good control with her voice on this album, she even didn't oversing on her big ballad "Beautiful".
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