How come Gwen & Eve can collabo twice?

[Bob]

but Monica and Brandy wanna do it, and they're desperate? people love hating on these veteran acts, what's up with that. well i'm hating on the haters!!!!

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Because Gwen didn't need Eve's rap on her song to make it a hit and Eve didn't need to be on Gwen's song to have a hit. Both are capable of having hits on their own. Brandy and Monica aren't as able to have a hit whenever they release a new single in these days.

[Deleted]

The first single from Monica's last album was bigger than anything Gwen has done since "Don't Speak".

[bluenote]

Gwen simply sung the hook on "blow your mind" and people wanted more. They worked well together. brandy and monica did a full duet that did better and is very "monumental" and it didnt leave people wanting more from the 2 of them together. Also Eve and Gwen are from 2 diff genres and it introduced Gwen to a different audience. brandy and Monica had a very siilar audience with Brandys being more broad.

[Night Senses]

I can understand people wondering where Brandy's career is headed. But for Monica, she has not stumbled to the bottom of the pit yet, where people are questioning if she can get out of it. So Gone and U Should've Known Better were both respectively big hits with the audience she connects with.

Monica is very capable! And she can do it again. I don't think she needs anyone to score a hit. I think that it's a shame that pop success is considered more important than any other kind of success, nowadays. If Monica goes to #1 on urban and flops on pop, people say she ain't done sh**. And to be honest, that's kind of offensive. To do well on any format is a success.

With Brandy, I think she has a chance to do well, too. But I can accept uncertainty with her, since she's been to the bottom of the rut recently. Monica hasn't been that low yet... and until she does go that low, it's unfair to say she needs anyone to have a hit. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brandy needs anyone either, I'm just indifferent to any circumstance with her.

If you notice from that article, Monica has not commented on this duet. So, it's not like she's bragging up a storm about it. Atleast not yet. I think she knows that with the right song, radio will love her all by herself.

[allow that]

I think it also has to do with the fact that Gwen and Eve never did a full-on duet together. Eve FEATURED Gwen, and that was it. Now Gwen is returning the favor. But they never had a song that they carried equally, it's never been 50/50 on one song.

As far as Brandy & Monica, I personally am glad to see them back together and can't wait to hear it. I doubt it'll be as good as "TBIM," but I don't need it to be AS good. I'll just enjoy if it's good IN GENERAL.

At the same time, if they were both more successful right now I don't think we'd be seeing this duet. Brandy is doing it because she needs all the help she can get to have a hit. Monica is doing it because she needs more hype, despite the fact that she had 2 big hits in the past year and a half.

[Night Senses]

I also agree that the Gwen/Eve comparison is off the mark. However, I simply don't understand why Monica is seen as desperate by some. Sure, she didn't have a huge selling album with #1's across the board, but she did do well for herself. If you look at her record sales After The Storm sits comfortably beside the rest. She's never sold by the tons.

And everyone does duets for "hype" - it's never exactly just because they're bored and feel like doing a song together. So, I agree that's certainly what it is and in this case, it's reality, not desperation, IMO.

[Love Plastic Love]

Billy said:

The first single from Monica's last album was bigger than anything Gwen has done since "Don't Speak".

????
I dont even know the name of it and it was larger than EVERY No Doubt song except DOnt Speak?
Thats kind of shocking. I wonder if you asked the general public, which songs would be considered larger or more well known.

[KikiMets]

Billy said:

The first single from Monica's last album was bigger than anything Gwen has done since "Don't Speak".

I'm not sure what criteria you're going by here. It can't be Hot 100 peaks, since both Hey Baby and Underneath It All outpeaked So Gone and It's My Life peaked in the same position.

I think that the reason the Gwen/Eve collabo isn't being looked at in the same way as potential Brandy/Monica duet is that The Boy Is Mine was the biggest hit of both Brandy's and Monica's careers and both were more successful when it was released than they are now.

[Deleted]

"So Gone" was a huge song. It was the #1 Urban hit of 2003 and was also high on the Urban AC and CHR/Rhythmic year-end charts. When was the last time No Doubt topped a year-end chart?

[bluenote]

I dont think "so gone" will be as remembered as Hey Baby, Underneath It All or It's My Life.

[allow that]

BlueNote said:

I dont think "so gone" will be as remembered as Hey Baby, Underneath It All or It's My Life.

It won't be. But it was still a huge song imo. Although, I don't think I've heard it on the radio once in 2004.

[Love Plastic Love]

Jersey said:

It won't be. But it was still a huge song imo. Although, I don't think I've heard it on the radio once in 2004.

Thats what is amusing me more and more about the music industry.
That Mario song that is shattering airplay records everywhere? I have never heard it ANYWHERE even MENTIONED outside of this board. Its bizarre. All these #1 songs that get so much airplay and they would never exist to me if I didnt visit this board.

Its a huge song for its formats, but I would say all the mentioned No Doubt songs were just as popular, if not moreso.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Billy said:

"So Gone" was a huge song. It was the #1 Urban hit of 2003 and was also high on the Urban AC and CHR/Rhythmic year-end charts. When was the last time No Doubt topped a year-end chart?

That's an odd comparison. ???

Monica certainly had a big hit with 'So Gone' but not really outside of her core formats. While it's not fair to me to say that CHR/Pop is the most important format or anything, I think we all know that it does seem to be the format that has the biggest effect on sales and generally what is used to determine whether a song is wellknown or not. Ask the general public which song they know more and chances are they would know 'Hey Baby', 'Hella Good' and 'Don't Speak' all over 'So Gone'.

[Deleted]

It depends on what "general public" you're asking. You can't be like "I NEVER heard Let Me Love You" on the radio and meanwhile it has 200M audience impressions. That just shows that you don't listen to certain formats. I'm sure I can find someone who hasn't heard a No Doubt song in years.

[Love Plastic Love]

I think if you asked everyone in America, people would be more familiar with No Doubt's largest hits than So Gone. I firmly believe that.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Billy said:

It depends on what "general public" you're asking. You can't be like "I NEVER heard Let Me Love You" on the radio and meanwhile it has 200M audience impressions. That just shows that you don't listen to certain formats. I'm sure I can find someone who hasn't heard a No Doubt song in years.

The's only one general public. Do a random sample of people from within all locations in the US as well as colours, etc, etc, and fans of different radio formats, I guarantee most will know No Doubt's songs better.

[allow that]

Love said:

I think if you asked everyone in America, people would be more familiar with No Doubt's largest hits than So Gone. I firmly believe that.

[Deleted]

I'm just playing devil's advocate because I'm tired of people discrediting Monica when she had such a big hit.

[bluenote]

The said:

Monica certainly had a big hit with 'So Gone' but not really outside of her core format.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Billy said:

I'm just playing devil's advocate because I'm tired of people discrediting Monica when she had such a big hit.

I figured you were because I think anyone that truly believes the stuff you were arguing are in deniel. I like Monica though and would like to see her have a huge multi-format hit. I wasn't a big fan of 'So Gone' though. 'All Eyez On Me' was my tune! Top 5 smash! I have the single too!

[Night Senses]

Billy said:

I'm just playing devil's advocate because I'm tired of people discrediting Monica when she had such a big hit.

I feel you. But people who do their research should know she has been very successful.

There are actually many things I wanted to say, regarding the whole "why Don't Speak is more popular than So Gone," but it's so not worth it. Plus, I think it was easier for songs that came out in the 90's to become memorable classics. In this day in age, songs (big or small) come and go and the next big thing pops up. Big hits replace eachother so quickly that people forget just how popular they were.

[Bob]

lol these No Doubt hits are replaceable, the only reason you all are saying "its my life" wil be remembered more is because YOU like it more. it'd be pretty hard to forget the #1 urban song of an entire year, as opposed to just another decent hit from No doubt.

[allow that]

Bob said:

lol these No Doubt hits are replaceable, the only reason you all are saying "its my life" wil be remembered more is because YOU like it more.

I like "So Gone" much more than any of the 3 No Doubt songs, but I have to say more people defintely know the No Doubt ones.

LOL, people on this board act like radio is the only place people hear songs. You can't use radio charts as the sole determinant of artists' fame. Josh Groban for example is better known than 75% of the people on the radio, and I can't even name a song he sings. But he's famous due to word of mouth, television appearances, concerts, etc. Phish get 0 airplay and more people have heard of them than Mario. Bands like Third Eye Blind, Coldplay, and Dave Matthews Band have fan bases that for the most part never turn on a radio. Some of DMB's most famous songs were never even singles. So while radio is a major factor, it's far from being the only outlet for people to hear songs.

[bluenote]

"so gone" was just another urban hit. It wasnt massive.  "crazy in love" for example would be a massively well known song that crossed different barriers. Not only did it top the Hot 100 for 11 weeks, but it also was used in commercials (pepsi), television shows, and more.  Thats a urban song that crossed over to other markets where people who dont listen to th radio can hear it. Thats how u know u have a massively well known song that went beyond being a radio hit.  Also "hey ya" would be another song that people who never listen to the radio knew about because of its commercial appeal to all audiences. "so gone" is not that type of hit.