pen
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Post by pen on Sept 12, 2006 20:14:43 GMT -5
November 6th is the add date for this, their second single from Billy Talent II. The first single, "Devil In A Midnight Mass", never really went for official adds over here, but this time "Red Flag" will! I hope it does well for them. They're a very underrated group.
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jdmasta289
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Post by jdmasta289 on Sept 13, 2006 1:01:54 GMT -5
I have listened to part of the album, and I want to like this, but the reality is their last album was much, much better. "Prisoner of Today" and "The Ex" should have been so much bigger than they were (did they even release an official second single from that album?)
This doesn't really stand out to me. Kind of surprised they are releasing a "second" single in the first place.
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pen
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Post by pen on Sept 13, 2006 1:18:16 GMT -5
I have listened to part of the album, and I want to like this, but the reality is their last album was much, much better. "Prisoner of Today" and "The Ex" should have been so much bigger than they were (did they even release an official second single from that album?) This doesn't really stand out to me. Kind of surprised they are releasing a "second" single in the first place. Well, they're big in Canada, so there you go. There were actually four singles from the first album: "Try Honesty", "The Ex", "River Below", and "Nothing To Lose". The latter two were only released in Canada and the UK. Apparently "Prisoners Of Today" was a single here at some point, although I've only heard this from radio listeners and not from anyone or anything related to the band. "Devil In A Midnight Mass" went for adds in Canada and the UK, but not here, probably because they're so much more popular there. "Red Flag" is probably only going for adds here as an empty gesture by Atlantic to try to get them exposure here, especially since they're about to embark on tour with Rise Against and Thursday. It makes sense to try to get them somewhat in the public eye.
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jdmasta289
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Post by jdmasta289 on Sept 13, 2006 1:27:45 GMT -5
I have listened to part of the album, and I want to like this, but the reality is their last album was much, much better. "Prisoner of Today" and "The Ex" should have been so much bigger than they were (did they even release an official second single from that album?) This doesn't really stand out to me. Kind of surprised they are releasing a "second" single in the first place. Well, they're big in Canada, so there you go. There were actually four singles from the first album: "Try Honesty", "The Ex", "River Below", and "Nothing To Lose". The latter two were only released in Canada and the UK. Apparently "Prisoners Of Today" was a single here at some point, although I've only heard this from radio listeners and not from anyone or anything related to the band. "Devil In A Midnight Mass" went for adds in Canada and the UK, but not here, probably because they're so much more popular there. "Red Flag" is probably only going for adds here as an empty gesture by Atlantic to try to get them exposure here, especially since they're about to embark on tour with Rise Against and Thursday. It makes sense to try to get them somewhat in the public eye. Yes, I am DYING to get tickets to that tandem's show. They'll be coming to K.C. I think early next month. They went 4-deep on their last album? :o I had no idea. And of course, it keeps escaping me how big they are there. I still wonder how can a band with this much of a hardcore, gritty sound be so popular in any country. I mean, they're a great band, but seeing bands like System of a Down become big here would probably answer my question.
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pen
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Post by pen on Sept 13, 2006 1:44:02 GMT -5
I've noticed that Canada seems to have a lot more devotion toward their rock bands than we do. That may not necessarily hold true, but I do know that a lot of bands like Finger Eleven, Billy Talent, Our Lady Peace, and other acts that aren't big around these parts anymore still recieve a lot of support and sales from their home country, regardless of their sound or genre.
That may just be because Canada doesn't have nearly the population that we do, but it seems like rock bands are far more likely to crap out over here. Again, that might just be because we have so freakin many of them, but it's like we don't seem to have as much pride in our musicians.
Case in point: how is it that solid albums from Breaking Benjamin, Stone Sour, and Three Days Grace are sliding steadily down the chart; Crossfade and Lostprophets crap out; and a fourth generation juvenile psuedo-rock group like Hinder is now at #9? It's a world gone insane. Get Stoned, indeed.
Of course I realize that our mainstream leans far more heavily toward pop and urban artists than rock bands, thus the current state of the Billboard, but it's depressing. I know everyone needs their fix of whatever turns them on, but I wish things were a little more even. Why can't everyone be a winner?
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jdmasta289
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Post by jdmasta289 on Sept 13, 2006 23:09:59 GMT -5
I've noticed that Canada seems to have a lot more devotion toward their rock bands than we do. That may not necessarily hold true, but I do know that a lot of bands like Finger Eleven, Billy Talent, Our Lady Peace, and other acts that aren't big around these parts anymore still recieve a lot of support and sales from their home country, regardless of their sound or genre. That may just be because Canada doesn't have nearly the population that we do, but it seems like rock bands are far more likely to crap out over here. Again, that might just be because we have so freakin many of them, but it's like we don't seem to have as much pride in our musicians. Case in point: how is it that solid albums from Breaking Benjamin, Stone Sour, and Three Days Grace are sliding steadily down the chart; Crossfade and Lostprophets crap out; and a fourth generation juvenile psuedo-rock group like Hinder is now at #9? It's a world gone insane. Get Stoned, indeed. Of course I realize that our mainstream leans far more heavily toward pop and urban artists than rock bands, thus the current state of the Billboard, but it's depressing. I know everyone needs their fix of whatever turns them on, but I wish things were a little more even. Why can't everyone be a winner? I probably don't have any better of a reason than the next guy, but I would guess the lack of success among American bands in their home country is due to market size - we are just so much bigger and are more diverse - more of a melting pot of different cultures. In radio terms, if seems like mega-markets like CHR/pop are much more fickle when it comes to artists' success. In other words, in 2003, an artist may be dominated, but usually runs out of steam by 2007. Smaller markets like AC and Active Rock tend to cling to their staple artists - Phil Collins, Sting, John Mellancamp, Bruce Springsteen, etc. - and Metallica, Godsmack, Shinedown, Disturbed, Buckcherry, Nickelback - etc. Smaller markets truly have less competition than larger ones. I wonder why pop and hip-hop seems to be much more popular here than in Canada. If ethnicity and race is a factor, I don't believe there is much of a difference between the two countries in % of African-Americans or Asians. Our higher % of Hispanics may have an affect, but I couldn't see that positively impacting record sales/overall popularity of hip-hop & pop music, because most whites tend to support pop & hip-hop as well, at least from my experience.
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crash46
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Post by crash46 on Sept 13, 2006 23:34:50 GMT -5
You guys do realize that the government of Canada regulates their commercial radio so that it's required for all stations to have a certain percentage--anywhere between 20 and 40 (I don't know for sure exactly what it is now)--of songs played be by Canadian artists, right? That's a lot of forced exposure for those Canadian acts up there, more than most record companies would be willing to pay American radio stations to match.
That and Canadians seem to have this ridiculously high sense of pride in all things Canada, especially relative to that of Americans.
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jdmasta289
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Post by jdmasta289 on Sept 14, 2006 1:54:22 GMT -5
You guys do realize that the government of Canada regulates their commercial radio so that it's required for all stations to have a certain percentage--anywhere between 20 and 40 (I don't know for sure exactly what it is now)--of songs played be by Canadian artists, right? What? :o How completely and utterly sad. That's all I have to say about that[/Forrest Gump]
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Sept 14, 2006 8:20:40 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much that it's CanCon than that people just like this stuff. Look at Alexisonfire, they're huge and I don't know why.
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pen
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Post by pen on Sept 14, 2006 10:42:49 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much that it's CanCon than that people just like this stuff. Look at Alexisonfire, they're huge and I don't know why. I don't know why either. I personally think they suck. BTW, Crash, I did not know that about Canadian radio, but that shouldn't necessarily affect album sales unless by getting more exposure, more people are discovering that they like these bands. National pride, which I referred to in my post, makes a lot more sense, but then why don't we have that kind of pride over here for rock groups? Instead people are throwing their money away into pop/urban acts like Beyonce and 50 Cent, and y'know, I'm not one to judge people's tastes in anything since I strongly believe in "whatever floats your boat", but a little man inside me can't help but ask "why"? Why is Beyonce gold and Audioslave only 140,000+? Why did 50 Cent go quadruple platinum in a month while most rock acts only manage to go platinum once in a year? For me, it is a conundrum that gives me a headache.
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jdmasta289
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Post by jdmasta289 on Sept 15, 2006 1:06:13 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much that it's CanCon than that people just like this stuff. Look at Alexisonfire, they're huge and I don't know why. I don't know why either. I personally think they suck. BTW, Crash, I did not know that about Canadian radio, but that shouldn't necessarily affect album sales unless by getting more exposure, more people are discovering that they like these bands. National pride, which I referred to in my post, makes a lot more sense, but then why don't we have that kind of pride over here for rock groups? Instead people are throwing their money away into pop/urban acts like Beyonce and 50 Cent, and y'know, I'm not one to judge people's tastes in anything since I strongly believe in "whatever floats your boat", but a little man inside me can't help but ask "why"? Why is Beyonce gold and Audioslave only 140,000+? Why did 50 Cent go quadruple platinum in a month while most rock acts only manage to go platinum once in a year? For me, it is a conundrum that gives me a headache. Rock artists' commercial success has long been a sensitive issue for me. While I dislike artists like Good Charlotte who begin marketing their music directly to the most superficial of teenyboppers and whose members begin dating Hilary Duff, I admire that they may perhaps usher in a "new wave" of alternative bands who can actually sustain pop airplay. Of course, so far, I've been wrong. Maybe in 2006, rock artists' pop success is beginning to look better. ??? The problem is that when I think of hip-hop's core audience, I don't actually think of urban people or "gangsters" (using that term very loosely in correlation with the term "gangster rap"), I think of wealthy, suburban, white kids who really don't know any better to have their own intelligent, unique musical taste. I have a really good friend who constantly defends crap-hop and always tries to justify its musical superiority by stating such things as "it's good club music" or "it's just more popular than your emo/alternative crap." Beyond those idiotic justifications, I don't even want to try to fathom why Johnny-come-lately unoriginal crap-hop artists outsell rock bands by such a hefty margin. Of course, there are exceptions in the R&B and Hip-Hop genre. From an artistic and musical standpoint, I respect artists like Mary J. Blige, Madonna, 2Pac, Dre, Alicia Keys, among certain select others for their integrity. But most of the more popular ones from today are cheap imitations and, in my opinion, committing the prime artistic crime - using their own good looks and sex appeal to make their music popular. That is exactly what makes their music crap-hop, in my opinion. I've long supported any rock artist (even those I don't particularly like) like Hinder or Nickelback that can make it on CHR/pop or MTV. Rather than conveniently dismiss bands like Fall Out Boy or Panic! at The Disco as "sell-outs", every time I see their video I see hope that maybe the young audience and those suburban white kids will experience a slow five-year revelation. Then, 2 years later, artists like 50 Cent come back in all their shirtless or low-cut (steroid-injected) glory and tantalize the world with their cheap and tacky sexual metaphors. I always love the fact that bands like Shinedown or Hinder can get airplay on pop, because, this day in age, it's really a dime a dozen. *Sigh* Penance was right; Get Stoned indeed.
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Post by allnightmarelong on Sept 15, 2006 18:05:14 GMT -5
Im Canadian and I've never heard bout the radio stations being forced by the government to play a certain % of Canadian artists. really, it doesnt bother me if it does. just means I dont have to listen to Panic at the Disco, Dashboard and that other garbage.
BACK ON TOPIC OF BILLY TALENT: this is another catchy song by them. I got sick of them when they released River Below but this album made me un-sick of them lol
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Sept 17, 2006 16:29:21 GMT -5
The rule is a 35% CanCon one. To qualify for CanCon, a song must be two of the following: canadian singer, canadian writer, canadian producer and/or recorded in canada. So songs that aren't by Canadian bands often qualify but on the flip side, I think most of Nelly Furtado's new CD and most Celine Dion stuff post-1997 isn't CanCon.
Personally, I agree with the rule for the simple fact that, without it, Canadian radio would be so similar to that of American radio that we'd never have a chance to hear anything new coming out of Canada. Honestly, with bands like Our Lady Peace and Billy Talent and whoever else started off in Canada first before moving elsewhere, I believe the CanCon rule helped them a lot. Bands like Nickelback, MAYBE not as much because they hit big in the US pretty soon after or around the same time as Canada so it was probably one of the cases where it would have happened anyway, it was just a gaurantee in Canada.
I can understand how people wouldn't agree with it and at the same time, I don't agree with how the rule is used by some stations to play just more songs by artists they already play enough of. I'm all for hearing new songs or songs by fairly unknown CanCon artists that go beyond the typical pop/rock genre. But alas, that's how it is.
BTW, the rule not only applies to radio but television, magazines, newspapers, etc. I'm not sure if it's 35% all around tho. I wonder if Austria has the same rule to prevent a complete German takeover? Or New Zealand to Australia? Etc. ;)
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[upsilon]β’
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Post by [upsilon]β’ on Sept 17, 2006 18:11:17 GMT -5
"Nothing To Lose" is the only song I've charted from them, and I really enjoyed it. They should've released it here.
In actuality, before the first single of this album, I had no idea they'd released singles here. Thought it was only in Canada and the UK.
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Post by fatalthirteen on Sept 17, 2006 20:24:53 GMT -5
In response to this whole CanCon business, I'm a Canadian and I strongly disagree with it for the simple reason that I think the best artists should get the most airplay-- whether they be Canadian or American. In fact, I think exposure of bands such as Alexisonfire and Billy Talent due to this CanCon rule are the main reason why they are successful because I personally think they truly suck.
The simple fact that that there are way fewer Canadian artists (and Canadian rock bands in particular) they are played much more than if they were just part of a slew of American bands. In fact, I have no doubt in my mind that both those bands would be underground if they were American. The four Canadian bands that do truly deserve their success on the basis of their music and not this CanCon crap is Nickelback (as they cater perfectly to the pop-rock audience) and Three days Grace (as they are as good as any successful American post-grunge band), Sum 41 (a good pop-punk band) and Simple Plan (as much as I DESPISE them they are the new backstreet boys for little girls).
Their are also a whole bunch of Canadian pop/R&B artists such as Massari, Shaun Desman, and Divine Brown who recieve airplay even though they are just worse, watered down versions of their American counterparts (Justin Timberlake and Beyonce). I think these radio regulations lessen the quality of mainstream Canadian music because these acts didn't need to work half as hard (on average) as American acts to achieve success. They need the competition of competing against the American acts for airplay so that only the true quality (or at least deserving) acts get played.
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pen
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Post by pen on Sept 17, 2006 20:50:29 GMT -5
On the one hand, you make a very valid point about bands needing to be judged on their own merits and not on their nationality.
On the other hand, your qualifications for that judgement are a little disturbing. Bands like Billy Talent and Finger Eleven deserve success far more than Simple Plan simply because they are far better and more listenable bands than Simple Plan. Yeah, maybe Simple Plan caters to a particular audience and so their presence on radio is expected, but saying they deserve their success on the basis of their music is going a little too far.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Sept 17, 2006 21:26:20 GMT -5
@ fatalthirteen: You are right in the aspect that the CanCon rule doesn't really work the way it should. I support the rule but don't support how it works now since most of the artists that benefit from it are sucky like the ones you mentioned. There's a ton of Canadian bands and singers that I love, buy CDs from, go to their concerts, etc, and they never get airplay on the radio and very little MuchMoreMusic airplay (re: sarah slean, melissa mcclelland, martina sorbara, tegan and sara, new pornographers, metric, etc). I don't know if those artists would work well on the radio in the higher portions we hear from the ones on now but I think radio could swing alittle more to those artists to help with their CanCon qualifications. I agree with the rule but don't like how it's being used. Needless to say, a lot of artists I do like probably benefitted in some way from it, even if it isn't radio airplay.
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Post by fatalthirteen on Sept 18, 2006 17:40:44 GMT -5
On the other hand, your qualifications for that judgement are a little disturbing. Bands like Billy Talent and Finger Eleven deserve success far more than Simple Plan simply because they are far better and more listenable bands than Simple Plan. Yeah, maybe Simple Plan caters to a particular audience and so their presence on radio is expected, but saying they deserve their success on the basis of their music is going a little too far. Yeah, I think I should have chosen my words more carefully, I don't think Simple Plan deserve airplay by any means, rather I can expect it as you said (to clarify I would listen to Billy Talent or Alexisonfire ANY DAY over Simple Plan), I just think that their are must be way better American Screamo-type bands than the aformentioned two that Canadians don't really care about because their material is not shoved down their throats until simply familiarity with the music causes them to like it. I don't know of many Screamo bands so I may be wrong...
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Post by reception on Dec 4, 2006 19:09:00 GMT -5
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