pen
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Post by pen on Feb 14, 2008 1:07:53 GMT -5
Sevendust and Porcupine Tree? What a weird combination.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Feb 14, 2008 1:29:09 GMT -5
I'm more of a prog rocker these days, but Sevendust was my favorite band in High School, so there's a certain nostalgia and allegiance factor with them. But the last few years, bands I've been getting into have been more like Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, and Opeth. And all these bands other than Opeth have had some success at Active Rock, so I guess they're geared to a somewhat similar audience. Porcupine Tree is just a lot more erudite and British. Also, "Fear Of A Blank Planet"- era Porcupine Tree from '07 (which didn't have any radio singles) was a lot more on the metal side of rock than anything they had done in their past, which is something that they now share in common with Sevendust. Both Porcupine Tree and Sevendust write killer heavy riffs that I find heavier than the riffs that most metal bands write. And both have some of the best drummers in rock music. Both have won awards from Modern Drummer Magazine. You're right though, they're not two bands I would naturally be obsessed with unless I had come across them six years apart from each other.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Feb 14, 2008 5:03:31 GMT -5
Maybe your tastes have changed. Well, you just can't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect me to retain all my enthusiasm for it. I'll cite bands I love, even: Bad Religion and the Foo Fighters. At this point, I'm not gonna love any Bad Religion album anywhere close to the three I bought in 1997. I got The Gray Race ('96) first, Recipe for Hate ('93) second, and Stranger Than Fiction ('94) third and I love them in that order. The four studio albums before those, I bought in 1998, and it just wasn't the same. Each new album starting with No Substance in 1998, I've liked less than the one before. (I liked it less than STF.) The exception was The Empire Strikes First ('04), which I liked better than The Process of Belief ('02), but not as much as The New America (2000). I like New Maps of Hell the least. In the case of the Foo Fighters, I love the self-titled one best. Colour and the Shape is a distant second. Nothing Left to Lose a distant third. The first exception is One by One, which I like better than Lose. In Your Honor was way too long and overall mediocre. So far I like ESP&G better than that, but only time will tell if I like it better than Lose. It's because neither of these bands usually do anything I haven't heard already a long time ago. Sevendust is my second favorite band, behind Porcupine Tree. Porcupine Tree, eh? Well that's pretty damn cool.
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Feb 14, 2008 8:44:40 GMT -5
I have loads of Dream Theater and The Mars Volta, but I just can't get into Porcupine Tree. Sorry.
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pen
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Post by pen on Feb 14, 2008 23:11:44 GMT -5
It's because neither of these bands usually do anything I haven't heard already a long time ago. I kind of see where you're coming from and then kind of don't. For example, one band I've never really been able to get into is Pennywise, although I'm going to try when their new album comes out. I've never been able to get into them because all of their songs sound the same, and I don't mean just a similar sound, I mean a similar construction, similar setup. It's the same song rehashed a billion times. It just doesn't hold my interest. Now, maybe that's how you feel about these bands. Maybe you feel like you've gotten used to their formula, so it no longer excites you. It's no longer new. The only thing I don't agree with is that when talking about a band like Sevendust or the Foo Fighters versus a band like Pennywise, melody plays a much larger part in their music. And for me, it's usually the melody that captivates my interest more than anything else. So while their songs are all mostly in the same style, there's always something different about the song that makes it unique for me. I could never say "Face To Face", "Praise", and "Deathstar" all sound exactly the same. So maybe what it is is that we're listening to music for different reasons. Or maybe to put it better, music is affecting us for different reasons. I used to know a lot of people that were constantly searching for something new or innovative because that's what captivated them, but they despised everything that was formulaic and dated. Personally, I think as long as it moves me emotionally and it's something I want to sing along to later on, it's worth something. Maybe the former viewpoint is where you're coming from.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Feb 21, 2008 3:56:14 GMT -5
I kind of see where you're coming from and then kind of don't. For example, one band I've never really been able to get into is Pennywise, although I'm going to try when their new album comes out. I've never been able to get into them because all of their songs sound the same, and I don't mean just a similar sound, I mean a similar construction, similar setup. It's the same song rehashed a billion times. It just doesn't hold my interest. Now, maybe that's how you feel about these bands. Maybe you feel like you've gotten used to their formula, so it no longer excites you. It's no longer new. The only thing I don't agree with is that when talking about a band like Sevendust or the Foo Fighters versus a band like Pennywise, melody plays a much larger part in their music. And for me, it's usually the melody that captivates my interest more than anything else. So while their songs are all mostly in the same style, there's always something different about the song that makes it unique for me. I could never say "Face To Face", "Praise", and "Deathstar" all sound exactly the same. I disagree that Sevendust is more melodic than Pennywise. (Pennywise don't excite me anymore, either. I love About Time to death, but by the time album 6 came around, it started feeling like a chore to keep up with their catalog. I still don't own #6 or anything past it.) Anyway, Pennywise is all singing, without screaming or barking of any kind. Their skate-punk riffs are usually hummable, too, making them more melodic than Sevendust's thrashy new-metal. I'm sure Sevendust utilize more variety in song structures, but that's about it, I'd think. Sure the Foo Fighters are a much more dynamic band than either of them (and that's why I like them much more), but unfortunately they don't seem capable of delivering much outside of their usual autopilot level of intensity. I was actually looking forward to the stripped down disc of In Your Honor, just for the change of pace. Unfortunately, it just bores me for the most part. They didn't really deliver what I was hoping for, I guess. So maybe what it is is that we're listening to music for different reasons. Or maybe to put it better, music is affecting us for different reasons. I used to know a lot of people that were constantly searching for something new or innovative because that's what captivated them, but they despised everything that was formulaic and dated. Personally, I think as long as it moves me emotionally and it's something I want to sing along to later on, it's worth something. Maybe the former viewpoint is where you're coming from. Ultimately, as long as it moves me emotionally, that's all I care about. But the thing is, if you're just rehashing sounds I've heard a million times already, you're not gonna cut it. (Especially if you're an upstart band.) Honestly, I'm probably somewhere in the middle.
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pen
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Post by pen on Feb 21, 2008 6:04:41 GMT -5
I'm probably somewhere in the corner.
Listening to Sevendust.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 4, 2008 22:02:38 GMT -5
Just so everybody knows, Sevendust announced about a week ago that they're stepping off the rockstar mayhem tour. Sometimes I wonder if they're sick and tired of being viewed as below bands like Disturbed, Slipknot, and Mudvayne, when these bands came up after Sevendust, and in the case of Disturbed, looking up to Sevendust. Then for Sevendust to turn around and open for these guys, when Sevendust does pretty well for themselves as a touring band and has a much more extensive catalogue than Disturbed and Slipknot -- it just makes me wonder if that has anything to do with Sevendust stepping off the tour. The tour should have treated Disturbed, Slipknot, and Sevendust all three as co-headliners, rather than calling Disturbed and Slipknot co-headliners and then lumping Sevendust with the lesser known acts. I think Sevendust is now gonna go on tour with Saliva (that's what I heard somewhere). And it'll be the same deal where Sevendust opens for a band that probably looked up to Sevendust for 4 or 5 years before scoring their own string of hits. I guess the band that can draw more fans should be the headliner, but I don't feel like Sevendust should co-headline with these bands. The only bands they should ever be opening for are acts like Linkin Park, Foo Fighters, or Metallica (ie, hard rock acts that fill arenas).
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 4, 2008 23:07:27 GMT -5
You say they should open for Linkin Park, but wouldn't that just be putting them in the same position?
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 5, 2008 1:14:39 GMT -5
Linkin Park is just SO big, it's not even close. Disturbed and Slipknot haven't had ridiculously more success than Sevendust. Linkin Park is big enough to headline Projekt Revolution Tour. The other three bands are all main-stage acts at festivals and headliners at major rock clubs. Linkin Park pumps out 5 hits an album, most of which go to #1. Disturbed and Slipknot have had some high peaking singles on the rock charts, more so than Sevendust, but Sevendust's sheer number of top 40 active rock singles is probably among the most of any band over the last ten years (I think they've had 17 top 40 active rock singles in ten years, a number that very few artists can touch, just none that have gone further than about #8, and alternative and heritage rock formats don't support them like they support Disturbed and Slipknot). I agree that Disturbed and Slipknot are slightly more popular than Sevendust, but if you're gonna have two headliners, you might as well have three, because they're all three of the most dominant bands in their genre. To lump Sevendust's success with newcomers like Five Finger Death Punch and more underground artists like Machine Head is less accurate.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 5, 2008 11:32:16 GMT -5
I think you're exaggerating the data in multiple directions. For one thing, Sevendust was set to headline the second stage, which would place them below Slipknot and Disturbed, but above all the rest, which is exactly the right place for Sevendust. History has nothing to do with it. If we're talking sales, then all three of Disturbed's albums have gone platinum or multiplatinum, as has Slipknot's, not to mention Corey's success with Stone Sour. Sevendust, on the other hand, has never had an album sell platinum, and their last three albums have failed to even go gold. The last two albums even failed to sell halfway to gold. Yes, Sevendust has had far more output than either Slipknot or Disturbed, but if we venture inside the numbers, Sevendust's singles have not had the continued success of Disturbed or Slipknot. Their singles are reguarly within the top 10 on Active Rock, and Sevendust's singles are regularly in the top 30. It's not even really a contest in comparison. Do I agree with Sevendust fans that the band is largely underrated, works incredibly hard, and deserves to be listed among the heavyweights in the genre? Yes, I do, but that doesn't change the facts.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 5, 2008 11:47:41 GMT -5
By the way, upon rereading your post I realize I just parroted a lot of stuff you said back at you, so let me say this: most tours like this have all the stages going on at once, so if we look at it that way, eventually Sevendust would be playing pretty much before Disturbed and Slipknot, which is probably why it was set up the way it was. You have a really huge band headline the second stage so that when it all fits together seamlessly, all the big bands play at the end of the night and all the small bands at the beginning of the day, and people still have a reason to go to each stage. I mean, you dismiss Machine Head, but they're one of the biggest and most respected metal acts around right now, and they've been playing for much longer than Sevendust, and they're headlining the third stage. So it really makes no difference what stage the bands are on so much as where they're going to end up. Probably if Sevendust were moved to the main stage, they might even have had a smaller set time than if they stayed on the second stage. Course, it doesn't even matter now since they're off, so the whole point is moot, but whatever.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Mar 7, 2008 5:14:20 GMT -5
^ What penance said.
P.S. Why would Sevendust ever open for the Foo Fighters? ???
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bamafan2102
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Post by bamafan2102 on Mar 8, 2008 4:31:47 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that their past few albums have not sold well at all. I thought Alpha would be a big seller. Hopefully this album will move them into at least Gold status.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Mar 10, 2008 16:51:16 GMT -5
Well, with the shape the industry is in, I'd first hope for gold status for current/recent platinum or multiplatinum artists.
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blurple
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Post by blurple on Mar 19, 2008 1:05:42 GMT -5
The album already leaked. I'm in love with "The Past" and "Enough". I hope it become singles. "The Past" is so mainstream radio ready.
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Crushcrushchris
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Post by Crushcrushchris on Mar 19, 2008 21:37:22 GMT -5
Wow...just f**king wow.
Think Animosity and Seasons' vocal melodies and harmonies with Alpha's riffs.
I know I'm being a fanboy and all, but on first listen, this is the most complete album I've heard from them.
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blurple
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Post by blurple on Mar 20, 2008 16:17:42 GMT -5
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Post by reception on Mar 21, 2008 16:53:47 GMT -5
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Crushcrushchris
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Post by Crushcrushchris on Mar 26, 2008 12:03:46 GMT -5
Clint Lowery has left Dark New Day to rejoin Sevendust on their new set of dates with Saliva, Neverset, and Overscene. If this is not an April Fools Joke, it's the most shocking announcement of the year to date.
I'm sitting here just having found the news out with my jaw on the floor.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 26, 2008 18:05:20 GMT -5
I've been waiting for the day when Clint would rejoin Sevendust since that fateful 2004 day when he left. But the timing of this announcement with the new album coming in six days, and Chapter VII: Hope And Sorrow being as awesome as it is...it's just so confusing. Who played guitar on the new album? Who was there to write the songs for the new album? If Sonny was involved in both, I may have finally just begun to feel like Sonny was an apt replacement for Clint, and as soon as I began to feel that way last week...Clint returns. However, if Clint was involved with the new album in any way, that may explain why it's so much more creative than "Next" and "Alpha."
Bottom line is that I'm confused.
However, on the first page, I remember saying that I heard a rumor that Clint might be involved in this album in some way. I forget where I heard this rumor, but now I really wish I knew where I got this from, because either this person is quite prescient, or this has been coming for a long time.
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Crushcrushchris
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Post by Crushcrushchris on Mar 26, 2008 18:23:03 GMT -5
To come to think about it, on a couple of songs, it sounds like Clint was singing background vocals.
None of us will really completely know until the album comes out I guess.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 26, 2008 20:59:03 GMT -5
Clint Lowery has left Dark New Day to rejoin Sevendust on their new set of dates with Saliva, Neverset, and Overscene. If this is not an April Fools Joke, it's the most shocking announcement of the year to date. I'm sitting here just having found the news out with my jaw on the floor. I'm not. I called it on Tunelab once there were reports of Dark New Day having trouble. I knew eventually Clint was going to come back. And now here the day has come. I mean, if Marcos can rejoin P.O.D., then Clint rejoining Sevendust is not a far cry. The only one that I currently deem impossible is Head and Korn.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 27, 2008 0:25:14 GMT -5
In the Sevendust facebook group, two people made three very good observations:
1) The album is called "Hope And Sorrow," hope with the prospect of Clint rejoining the band, sorrow about the regret of Sonny leaving. 2) The single is about the return of the prodigal son, possibly a reference to Clint, no? 3) And this one is the clincher for me, The font of the Sevendust logo is the same as on the first four albums, and not the logo they used on "Next" and "Alpha," basically an indication that they have returned to the previous era of Sevendust. This makes me feel like Clint has been in and Sonny has been out for quite some time now.
But Sonny must have been with them on the Australian tour, all the while knowing that this album was the mark of the return of Clint Lowery.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 27, 2008 14:30:07 GMT -5
In the Sevendust facebook group, two people made three very good observations: 1) The album is called "Hope And Sorrow," hope with the prospect of Clint rejoining the band, sorrow about the regret of Sonny leaving. 2) The single is about the return of the prodigal son, possibly a reference to Clint, no? 3) And this one is the clincher for me, The font of the Sevendust logo is the same as on the first four albums, and not the logo they used on "Next" and "Alpha," basically an indication that they have returned to the previous era of Sevendust. This makes me feel like Clint has been in and Sonny has been out for quite some time now. But Sonny must have been with them on the Australian tour, all the while knowing that this album was the mark of the return of Clint Lowery. A wise person once said, "Don't go spilling allegory all down your shirt."
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Apr 2, 2008 1:42:22 GMT -5
Chapter VII: Hope And Sorrow came out today and it's really awesome. Way more creative and epic than any of their last three albums. I don't think this is a return to form to their first three albums so much as the first time since "Seasons" that they weren't trying to go recreate their previous records, but rather try something new and make the record they felt like making at the time.
Now if "Prodigal Son" would just quit stalling in the mid 20s on active rock, I would be very happy.
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pen
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Post by pen on Apr 4, 2008 20:39:44 GMT -5
This is weird for me to say after all the discussion on here and everything, but I'm not really sure how thrilled I am by this album. Maybe it needs some time to grow on me or something, but I think since Seasons they've been kind of lacking something. I know it's so easy to say it's Clint, but we'll see. But right now none of the songs are really standing out to me too much.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Apr 5, 2008 0:23:41 GMT -5
I felt that way about NEXT and ALPHA, but not about this one. Sevendust nation seems to like this less than ALPHA, but a lot of them judge a Sevendust album's quality solely based on how heavy it is. And a lot of negative fan reviews have just been, it's good, but they worked with Chris Daughtry which basically makes them sell outs. It's kinda sad that "loyal" Sevendust fans will dismiss an entire album for that reason. I know that with you, Penance, that's obviously not the reason why. I think a lot of my love for the album is just because of just how awesome I think the collaborations are, especially the title tracks. There are a lot of forgettable songs on here, but they still sound really good, and much more interesting than the riffage and screaming that ALPHA depended on for every track.
If only "Broken Down" had been the first single off SEASONS they'd have had a huge hit, rather than "Enemy" which might be my least favorite song that they have ever written. They haven't had anything since then that could really do too much damage without having had a single before it to make them a band who gets a free ride up the chart like Disturbed.
And based on how fast "Inside The Fire" went top 10 on active and top 30 on alternative, I take back everything I said about Disturbed not being way bigger than Sevendust. The song isn't even all that impressive and it's flying up the chart like crazy. I still might argue that Slipknot isn't much bigger than Sevendust, but I guess the success of Stone Sour kinda trumps anything Sevendust has done. Now I remain a bitter Sevendust fan who just wishes they'd score a huge hit so they could be named among the upper echelon alt-metal bands. Maybe "The Past" with Chris Daughtry will do that for them...
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pen
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Post by pen on Apr 5, 2008 10:00:47 GMT -5
I think "The Past" and "Prodigal Son" are right now my favorite tracks off the album. But a lot of the songs before were just a blur. I'll have to give it a few more listens for the tracks to grow on me. I did kind of like "Sorrow" too. I think the whole "heavier is better" argument is ridiculous, just like you. Animosity and Seasons are my favorite Sevendust albums precisely because they blended heaviness and melody in equal amounts.
I still think you're wrong about Slipknot though, since Slipknot's success is greater than Stone Sour and you have no problem putting them over Sevendust.
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Post by Pipa on Apr 5, 2008 10:13:46 GMT -5
I still think you're wrong about Slipknot though, since Slipknot's success is greater than Stone Sour and you have no problem putting them over Sevendust. Are you sure about that? I mean, if you asked someone about Stone Sour, they'd be more likely to say "oh yeah, they did that 'Through the Glass' song" than they would be to recognize one of Slipknot's songs.
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