j
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Post by j on Oct 23, 2003 23:36:24 GMT -5
I think the year end chart should be compiled by a point system. Forty points for being at #1, and one point for #40, and whatever is in between. That would be more fair, because the song doesn't have to be released at the right time to be at #1 or high on the chart. Well it used to be like that, wasn't it? I remember Billboard saying that a 1963 Beatles album was the biggest seller of the year but only managed to be at #8 on the year-end chart because it fell relatively fast off the chart. How is inverse points better than the technology we have now that can accurately and, more importantly, automatically, count the exact number of spins a song receives in a year? They can't claim that the year-end chart represents the most-played songs in a year if they rank songs according to an inverse-point system based on chart performance. |
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Post by radiorules on Oct 23, 2003 23:42:13 GMT -5
No no, what the year end chart should do is count spins for a songs chart life. I mean, you gives a shit how much spins a song is getting 9 months after it was supposed to be getting the airplay. It's not like Arista records still relies on "I'm With You" for "Let Go" to sell albums and checks it's spins even until this day to see how much spins it's getting. Just count the spins from the week it debuts, until the week it goes recurrent, this is the only fair way to do it. The #1=40 points thing won't work that well, because there could be a huge difference between a song that reached 8800 spins and stayed at #1 for 2 weeks (Crazy In Love) and a song that peaked at 7800 spins but stayed at #1 for 3 weeks (Shake Ya Tailfeather).
Shadowblue, even though you might claim you want the 2 week chart for IWY to get more spins, i am sure that if it made no difference and she would still be #3, then you wouldn't want the two week break to count so that way "Beautiful" would be #11.
And as for the whole Justin Timberlake/Where Is The Love thing, the best example i can come up with is Lil Kim. How come no one is saying "Oh wow, congratulations to LIL kimm who is now a major player on CHR POP because she recieved Back to Back top tens with "Magic Stick" and "Can't Hold Us Down", so i am going to predict her next single will also go top ten". We all know CHUD is NOT Lil Kim's song so that's why we aren't calling her an official big player yet. The same goes with BEP, Justin Timberlake is only featured on "Where Is The Love?". Did the fact that someone like Justin on the track helped the song do better? Sure. But the part that Justin is singing is a part that i call a "Replaceable Part", meaning anyone From Ashanti to Michael Jackson could've sung his part and it still would've done well.
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Keith3000
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 23, 2003 23:45:57 GMT -5
Radiorules, enough already. I think we all get the picture that you're a Christina fan..which is fine; just don't go overboard accusing other people of things and making assumptions, which you seem to love to do in the case of shadowblue.
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j
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Post by j on Oct 23, 2003 23:46:24 GMT -5
Shadowblue, even though you might claim you want the 2 week chart for IWY to get more spins, i am sure that if it made no difference and she would still be #3, then you wouldn't want the two week break to count so that way "Beautiful" would be #11. So now you know what I'm thinking, do you. Just shut up.  I don't know anyone who agrees with this. |
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Keith3000
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 23, 2003 23:52:02 GMT -5
Whatever, guys. Shadowblue, why don't you just ignore him?
Anyway, about the inverse point system, I agree that that wouldn't be a good idea, because a so-called "weak" #1 would get as many points as one which received plenty of airplay. The way things are now are quite accurate actually; I see no problem. It's true that December spins from the previous year get a strong advantage in the end-of-the-year chart, but then again, these spins were not even considered in the previous year's chart, so I guess it evens out.
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EvanJ
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Post by EvanJ on Oct 24, 2003 9:11:53 GMT -5
I could see ranking songs by their peak 26 weeks. This would allow songs released later in the year to have a chance and also be a long enough time period for longevity to matter. To use the "Hanging By A Moment" vs. "Lady Marmalade" example, Lifehouse would be ahead for a majority of the 26 weeks and be in the Top 10 at times "Lady Marmalade" had under 2,000 spins. I expect "Hanging By A Moment" would beat "Lady Marmalade" by far under that system. Maybe do peak 26 weeks for a song that spent 26 weeks or less on the chart and peak X weeks for a song that spent X weeks on the chart where X is greater than 26. Lifehouse lasted so long that I wouldn't be surprised if its spins in the chart year after it went recurrent were less than 10 percent of its spins.
What I'd like Mediabase to do is make a rolling 52 week chart (it wouldn't need to be updated daily but I'd like it to be weekly). I wonder if Mediabase even has spin archives for other years.
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Ragin
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Post by Ragin on Oct 24, 2003 9:40:58 GMT -5
No no, what the year end chart should do is count spins for a songs chart life. I mean, you gives a s**t how much spins a song is getting 9 months after it was supposed to be getting the airplay. It's not like Arista records still relies on "I'm With You" for "Let Go" to sell albums and checks it's spins even until this day to see how much spins it's getting. Just count the spins from the week it debuts, until the week it goes recurrent, this is the only fair way to do it. The #1=40 points thing won't work that well, because there could be a huge difference between a song that reached 8800 spins and stayed at #1 for 2 weeks (Crazy In Love) and a song that peaked at 7800 spins but stayed at #1 for 3 weeks (Shake Ya Tailfeather). quote] I completely disagree with this. Songs that get strong recurrent play absolutely boost album sales and certainly are more well-known ergo bigger hits than one that plummets into no spins after going recurrent. The whole point of the year end chart is to tell us the biggest songs of the year. A song that is the biggest song for 4 weeks but is rarely played after it hits its peak is simply NOT as big of a song as one that gets airplay the whole year. There are songs that have peaked at #3 that are much bigger songs than those that reached #1 and not necessarily just from spins while they are current. I'd turn this around on you and say who cares if the labels are checking spin totals? Who cares WHEN the song is SUPPOSED to be getting airplay? The point is how much airplay did the song get? Often we talk about songs that make their rounds to different regions and are hits in different regions at different times preventing them from climbing very high on the charts. This does not negate the fact that the song was a hit in all of those regions and was listened to. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 24, 2003 13:45:13 GMT -5
Am i the ony one that notice that Shadowblue always uses "Where Is The Love?" as a Justin single just to make Christina's achievements seem smaller? |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 24, 2003 13:54:15 GMT -5
If "Lose Yourself" was the most played song during the last couple weeks of December last year, then it was #1 for eight weeks, not six.
And for radiorules saying the yearend chart is unbiased. I've explained to him on two different occations why they aren't so. Think of the yearend chart as a larger version of a weekly chart, aka a weekend chart. A chart representing the total plays in a week.
If a yearend chart is biased, so is a weekend chart.
The whole purpose of a YEAREND chart is to represent what was played through the year is represents! It's really not that hard to understand. If there was a chart to represent the biggest hits of a certain artist, or to compare whether one song is a bigger hit than another, then you can see which song was a bigger hit.
Of course a yearend chart will favour a song released in the beginning of the year! The same way a weekly chart would favour a song released on a Monday over a song released on a Friday. It's VERY SIMPLE common sense. If you can't understand that, well, I kinda feel bad for you. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 24, 2003 14:04:01 GMT -5
No no, what the year end chart should do is count spins for a songs chart life. I mean, you gives a s**t how much spins a song is getting 9 months after it was supposed to be getting the airplay. It's not like Arista records still relies on "I'm With You" for "Let Go" to sell albums and checks it's spins even until this day to see how much spins it's getting. Just count the spins from the week it debuts, until the week it goes recurrent, this is the only fair way to do it. The #1=40 points thing won't work that well, because there could be a huge difference between a song that reached 8800 spins and stayed at #1 for 2 weeks (Crazy In Love) and a song that peaked at 7800 spins but stayed at #1 for 3 weeks (Shake Ya Tailfeather). And as for the whole Justin Timberlake/Where Is The Love thing, the best example i can come up with is Lil Kim. How come no one is saying "Oh wow, congratulations to LIL kimm who is now a major player on CHR POP because she recieved Back to Back top tens with "Magic Stick" and "Can't Hold Us Down", so i am going to predict her next single will also go top ten". We all know CHUD is NOT Lil Kim's song so that's why we aren't calling her an official big player yet. The same goes with BEP, Justin Timberlake is only featured on "Where Is The Love?". Did the fact that someone like Justin on the track helped the song do better? Sure. But the part that Justin is singing is a part that i call a "Replaceable Part", meaning anyone From Ashanti to Michael Jackson could've sung his part and it still would've done well. |
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Post by radiorules on Oct 24, 2003 14:09:10 GMT -5
I am sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but Justin Timberlake isn't even credited on "Where Is The Love?"
From Billboard:
21 14 21 Where Is The Love?, Black Eyed Peas
A&M | 000714* | Interscope
Where is Justin?
From Mediabase:
7 9 BLACK EYED PEAS Where Is The Love 5093 5865 -772 44.276
Where is Justin?
From R & R:
5 7 Black Eyed Peas Where Is The Love? (A&M/Interscope) 5631
Where is Justin?
As you can see, Justin clearly didn't record his part of the song so he can get credited for it, he did it to help the BEP out, if Justin wanted to be credited for this song, then his name would actually be in the official title. If Justin actually wanted to get credit for this song, then he would've appeared in the video, if Justin wanted credit for this song then he would've performed it with them at least once!
If we are going to count Justin Timberlake on "Where Is The Love?" then i am going to count Missy Elliot on "Lady Marmalade", because she technically does sing, but her name isn't in the credits and at least she appeared in the video.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 24, 2003 14:13:05 GMT -5
Hmmm... you do have a point with all of that though, I suppose. Also note, when you provide information, why must you be so cocky about it? You aren't bursting my bubble. If the stuff you provide can back itself up, then you're either right or you're not right. :)
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Post by radiorules on Oct 24, 2003 14:20:31 GMT -5
I wasn't specifically bursting your bubble since i like you, i was bursting the other's bubble who have been claiming this for months when the fact is Justin isn't even credited on the song.
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Post by thisbeautifulmess on Oct 24, 2003 20:22:42 GMT -5
I don't have the 2002 year-end issue, but I do have the 2001 year-end issue, and here is what it states: "R&R's exclusive Top 100of 2001 charts are based [on] the total number of plays received by each artist, title, and label for the issues dated December 8, 2000 through November 30, 2001."That's 52 weeks. So you would assume the 2002 year-end chart counted the next 52 weeks, which would be December 7, 2001 through November 29, 2002. Either I have been proven wrong or R&R counted 53 weeks in their 2002 chart year, which they would have to do once every 7 years anyway. But there has to have been some reason why I started keeping track of spins with the 12/13/03 chart. I'm fairly sure it was because I thought at the time that it would be the first week counted toward the 2003 year-end chart. If you look at the 1996 chart pack, 12/06/96 was included in 1996. So I can't think of any reason why 12/06/02 wouldn't have been included in 2002. Now the interesting thing is that the quote says ISSUES, not WEEKS. So do they still public a magazine for those two chart-less weeks? If they do, then I would be almost positive that the two week break IS included in the year-end chart. |
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Post by thisbeautifulmess on Oct 24, 2003 20:25:19 GMT -5
I don't think it matters whether or not Evanesence becomes #1 of the year or not, because we all know "Bring Me To Life" was a little more bigger hit than "When I'm Gone", but since the year end charts are unfair and favor songs that were releaed in the first quarter of the year, it makes "When I'm Gone" look bigger. Geez the year end charts are so biased. That's a pretty subjective statement. They both seem about equal to me. If you count all the rock formats and even hotac, "when I'm gone" would probably even be shown as the bigger hit of the two. |
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Mega248
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Post by Mega248 on Oct 24, 2003 20:26:21 GMT -5
They actually publish a chartless issue for one of the two weeks, but not the other one.
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Post by thisbeautifulmess on Oct 24, 2003 20:27:14 GMT -5
And as for the whole Justin Timberlake/Where Is The Love thing, the best example i can come up with is Lil Kim. How come no one is saying "Oh wow, congratulations to LIL kimm who is now a major player on CHR POP because she recieved Back to Back top tens with "Magic Stick" and "Can't Hold Us Down", so i am going to predict her next single will also go top ten". We all know CHUD is NOT Lil Kim's song so that's why we aren't calling her an official big player yet. The same goes with BEP, Justin Timberlake is only featured on "Where Is The Love?". Did the fact that someone like Justin on the track helped the song do better? Sure. But the part that Justin is singing is a part that i call a "Replaceable Part", meaning anyone From Ashanti to Michael Jackson could've sung his part and it still would've done well. The song wouldn't have even gone top 10 if Justin Timberlake wasn't in it. |
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Post by radiorules on Oct 24, 2003 21:13:38 GMT -5
That's a pretty subjective statement. They both seem about equal to me. If you count all the rock formats and even hotac, "when I'm gone" would probably even be shown as the bigger hit of the two. Oh believe me, i have learned long ago that the people on these boards don't care about how well a song did on the other formats, they just care about the pop format. If everyone was like you and they did care about the other formats, then they would admit that a certain song that got played on 4 formats was a bigger hit than that other certain song that was played on two formats. But don't worry, i am not mentioning names or what the two songs were. |
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mst3k
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Post by mst3k on Oct 24, 2003 21:22:11 GMT -5
Oh believe me, i have learned long ago that the people on these boards don't care about how well a song did on the other formats, they just care about the pop format, Because if everyone was like you and they did care about the the formats, then they would admit that a certain song that got played on 4 formats was a bigger hit than that other certain song that was played on two formats. But don't worry, i am not mentioning names or what the two songs were. Because we are discussing this in the CHR/Pop forum. Up to this point, "When I'm Gone" has received more spins than "Bring Me To Life", therefore it is the bigger hit TO DATE. The yearend charts are not biased, they measure airplay for a one-year period. If you would like to compile an all-time chart with no start or stop dates, go right ahead and do it. And I wish the two of you (I'm not naming names, either) would take your petty "I'm With You"/"Beautiful" bullsh*t off the boards. It's really old. :) |
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Post by radiorules on Oct 24, 2003 21:26:47 GMT -5
Because we are discussing this in the CHR/Pop forum. Up to this point, "When I'm Gone" has received more spins than "Bring Me To Life", therefore it is the bigger hit TO DATE. The yearend charts are not biased, they measure airplay for a one-year period. If you would like to compile an all-time chart with no start or stop dates, go right ahead and do it. And I wish the two of you (I'm not naming names, either) would take your petty "I'm With You"/"Beautiful" bullsh*t off the boards. It's really old. :) "I'm With You"? what's that? ??? |
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j
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Post by j on Oct 24, 2003 21:27:43 GMT -5
And I wish the two of you (I'm not naming names, either) would take your petty "I'm With You"/"Beautiful" bullsh*t off the boards. It's really old. :) Sigh I know. Would you believe it's almost NOVEMBER and he's still going at it? "It's really old" doesn't quite cut it. In fact, it's an understatement. It's pre-Jurassic old. I wanted it to stop more than half a year ago. Geez, get a life already. What a complete waste of one whole year. |
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Post by radiorules on Oct 24, 2003 21:46:20 GMT -5
My comment was not intended to start an argument, it was a reply to thisbeautifulmess's multi-format comment, and when you reply to something, have proof to back it up, and that was the proof. And besides, Whats IWY ayway? ???
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