Is Pop Music Making a Comeback?

[krazymack]

Jersey said:

I want to add that it kind of sucks that everytime someone makes a topic about "Is Pop coming back?" or "Is Hot AC coming back?" it has to always get ruined by turning into a topic about "Is Rap here to stay?"

I need to know your definition of Pop. Is it the kind of Pop which is all Hot AC leaning. From your statement, that is what I am getting from you. Or are you talking about the pop charts being balanced despite the labels of Hot AC or Rhythmic.

[krazymack]

irice22 said:

There will also always be collaberations, but not so much to this extent as they are now in the future.

Who died and called you clairvoyant? LOL.

to fade on the pop charts and as for collaberation, it's just a fad that will fade out even on the rhytmic/urban charts. I'm not saying rap is fading out in in the rhytmic forum, I am saying it's fading out in the pop forum, therefore I am talking about the pop charts.

Well I am saying that there is no trace or hint based on factual resources that says that rap will completely die out on the pop chart anytime soon. I can't see it happening for now.

[allow that]

krazymack said:

I need to know your definition of Pop. Is it the kind of Pop which is all Hot AC leaning. From your statement, that is what I am getting from you. Or are you talking about the pop charts being balanced despite labels like Hot AC or Rhythmic.

Well, by Pop radio I mean the format chart.

By "pop music" I'm referring to the Stacie Orrico types.

But I do think there's a thin line between a lot of Hot AC and Pop songs. Not the Matchbox 20/ Sarah McLachlan Hot AC songs... but songs like "Harder To Breathe," "Why Can't I?" and "Stacy's Mom" all sound like Pop songs to me.

Just like it's Pop's place to play Hot AC leaning Pop songs that Hot AC doesn't play, like "Stacy's Mom," I think they should play Rhythmic leaning Pop songs that Urban/Rhythmic don't play. Songs like TLC "Damaged" or if Monica were to release "Breaks My Heart" or "I Wrote This Song." But those types of Rhythmic songs don't have a chance at CHR/Pop (until maybe now... I think in the current climate "Damaged" could've made Top 10). CHR/Pop has been trying to mimic CHR/Rhthmic over much of the past 2 years. I'm not saying those songs aren't popular, but I'm saying if someone only likes those types of songs or mostly those types of songs, then they are basically a CHR/Rhythmic listener. But CHR/Pop listeners should have their own hits too.

[krazymack]

Just like it's Pop's place to play Hot AC leaning Pop songs that Hot AC doesn't play, like "Stacy's Mom," I think they should play Rhythmic leaning Pop songs that Urban/Rhythmic don't play. Songs like TLC "Damaged" or if Monica were to release "Breaks My Heart" or "I Wrote This Song." But those types of Rhythmic songs don't have a chance at CHR/Pop (until maybe now... I think in the current climate "Damaged" could've made Top 10). CHR/Pop has been trying to mimic CHR/Rhthmic over much of the past 2 years. I'm not saying those songs aren't popular, but I'm saying if someone only likes those types of songs or mostly those types of songs, then they are basically a CHR/Rhythmic listener. But CHR/Pop listeners should have their own hits too.

IMO, that sounds like you have a very biased and closeminded viewpoint. You can hold to that if you wish. I personally can't see why Lil' Jon and The Eastside Boyz or Ludacris, mix it up on a pop playlist with a Liz Phair, Maroon 5, or Fountains of Wayne. If it's POPular then so be it.

That case you mentioned would apply to Eminem's success at Rhythmic as well. But I've seen Eminem on these boards accepted with open arms at pop on these boards, I guess? I'd like to know what's the difference with him. Alrighty then, LOL.

[Rob64]

LOL!

[allow that]

krazymack said:

IMO, that sounds like you have a very biased and closeminded viewpoint. You can hold to that if you wish. I personally can't see why Lil' Jon and The Eastside Boyz or Ludacris, mix it up on a pop playlist with a Liz Phair, Maroon 5, or Fountains of Wayne.

But I've seen Eminem on these boards accepted with open arms at pop, I guess? I'd like to know what's the difference with him. Alrighty then, LOL.

I don't see how anything I said was baised. If you explain how I got that, then maybe I could clarify.

I never said "Get Low" shouldn't be played on Pop. If Pop listeners want to hear it, then they should.

But many Pop listeners also want to hear the kinds of songs that up until recently haven't been getting played.

I think maybe the reason you think I souind biased is because I'm specifically referring to CHR/Pop listeners and (based on your Hot 100 references, which covers all formats) you're referring to the general public.

[krazymack]

But many Pop listeners also want to hear the kinds of songs that up until recently haven't been getting played.

What "type" of songs are these? You mean the "teenie pop" kind?

I think maybe the reason you think I souind biased is because I'm specifically referring to CHR/Pop listeners and (based on your Hot 100 references, which covers all formats) you're referring to the general public.

You sound biased, in my eyes because you are saying that there is a thin line between "Hot AC" and "Pop," why can't there be a thin line between "Pop" and "Rhythmic," or any format for that matter.

The CHR/Pop charts reflects what songs gets the popular airplay according to what the pop stations' play regardless of the format it originated from. Have you been reviewing what you have been typing?

[Eyeball]

I hate the extreme anti-rap sentiment on this board...

I think it's not pop, but rhythmic that should be changed. Rhythmic should become more pop. Leave the heavy rap like "Get Low" to the urban charts (some can chart on rhythmic, but it shouldn't be dominating the chart like it is). Also the extremely slow type of R&B should eb mostly on urban. Rhythmic should be danceable stuff. If I had a rhythmic station I would of course play Beyonce, Outkast, 50 Cent, etc. but also pop songs like "There's Gotta Be More To Life" and "Me Against The Music."

[allow that]

krazymack said:

You sound biased, in my eyes because you are saying that there is a thin line between "Hot AC" and "Pop," why can't there be a thin line between "Pop" and "Rhythmic," or any format for that matter.

The CHR/Pop charts tries to reflect what songs gets the popular airplay according to what the stations' play regardless of the format. Have you been reviewing what you have been typing?

You obviously didn't read what I typed closely enough. I never said there is a thin line between pop and Hot AC, I said there is a thin line between Pop and some Hot AC. I said that for the most part Hot AC is its own format, just as CHR/Rhythmic is. Then I said there is a subgenre of Hot AC that is Pop leaning... and gave Fountains of Wayne, Liz Phair, and Maroon 5 as examples. With the exception of Liz Phair, those examples didn't even get Hot AC airplay for the most part. Notice I specifically said artists like Matchbox 20 and Sarah McLachlan are not Pop. But if they have a popular song, like "Unwell" there's no reason why they shouldn't be played at Pop.

Then I pretty much said CHR/Rhythmic has the same thing, a sub-genre that's Pop leaning. TLC, Mya, Monica, Wayne Wonder, Nelly fall into this sub-genre. Those are the types of Rhthymic songs most CHR/Pop listeners want to hear for the most part. But just as Matchbox 20 is out of the HAC subgenre, there's no reason why a song like "Get Low" shouldn't get Pop airplay if its popular, and I said that in my above post, which you obviously didn't read.

Unless someone comes out and says "I wish the Pop Top 10 was all rap!" we get called biased or close-minded, or even accused of being anti-rap which if you saw my CD collection you'd know is ridiculous.

[Gold Soundz]

I completely agree with what Jersey Boy is saying. I also think mainstream CHR is in a great period right now with a balanced amount of rock, pop, and hip-hop. Last year it seemed like pop had faded and mainstream was either rock, hip-hop, or heavily influenced R&B pop. Anyway, I kind of wish Damaged and Bringing On The Heartbreak had a chance in this new wave of pop - both are such deserving hits.

[chebingeo]

krazymack said:

Whenever someone mentions that people are getting tired of rap music, I want to see the facts that they are dissatisfied. I don't rely on somene's opinions much.

Well, here's something that might interest a few people.

At my school, whenever there are events going on, they play non-stop rap the entire time. Last week, the student government launched a petition to force the student programming to play different types of music and not just rap. When the petition got to me, there were already several full pages of signatures (and I signed it the first day they were collecting).

BTW I would be perfectly fine with rap on the charts if they showed up as frequently as country songs.

[krazymack]

But I do think there's a thin line between a lot of Hot AC and Pop songs.

According to this statement, you didn't say some. You said "a lot." Let's not take the words out of context, now.

Well if I thought of your statement was very biased, then that is my opinion, so be it. I personally wouldn't care less what anyone thought about me or my statements either. It's so funny how we get emotional when we are trying to assess the facts, which is what I'm going by. I tried to use factual resources which can has some influence on the pop charts like the Billboard Album charts and "Hot 100."

I don't go by hearsay or opinions, that kind of stuff can be left for the dogs. I don't know where on earth you came out with a statement like "I wish the pop top 10 was all rap," for my reason for calling someone biased. Which is something that I never implied or said.
You stated that a lot of Hot AC and pop songs have a thin line. Not the other formats. Which led to my statement of thinking that you were biased.

Your approach is very childish, by saying or implying that I called you biased because of the top 10 isn't all rap or something of that nature.

So you are the one who need to relax and take a chill pill my friend.

[krazymack]

Well, here's something that might interest a few people.

At my school, whenever there are events going on, they play non-stop rap the entire time. Last week, the student government launched a petition to force the student programming to play different types of music and not just rap. When the petition got to me, there were already several full pages of signatures (and I signed it the first day they were collecting).

BTW I would be perfectly fine with rap on the charts if they showed up as frequently as country songs.

That's nice, thanks for sharing your "little" own story.
LOL.

[Deleted]

I totally agree with Adam. There's a whole format dedicated to Urban while plenty of pure pop acts are getting overlooked. Anyway, a lot of this Urban material that is getting played is total crap. Baby Bash, Lil' Jon, 50 Cent, Chingy... YUCK. I would have absolutely no problem with rap on pop radio if they were actually playing artists like The Roots, Pitch Black, and other alternative rap artists. It's bad enough that entire formats are dedicating themselves to that rap garbage, but now the only places to run from that is Adult Contemporary, Alternative, and Smooth Jazz.

[Deleted]

...and krazymack, this is obviously a race issue with you. You and I both know that plenty of black artists are being overlooked. I personally think the black artists at pop radio are giving the race a bad name. I'm sick of hearing that Urban music is trash when there are artists like, say, The Roots, Heather Headley, and Kindred The Family Soul out there. Do you really like people perceiving black music as Chingy and all that other bling bling, commercial gangsta trash?

Now I realize that it will be a cold day in hell when a Kindred song makes CHR/Pop, but having talentless gangsta rap at pop radio is not making it any better.

There is talentless Alternative music... talentless Adult Contemporary music... and all that too, however, right now we're being bombarded with the Urban garbage, and I think it's time for radio to even itself out.

[allow that]

krazymack said:

According to this statement, you didn't say some. You said "a lot." Let's not take the words out of context, now.

Taking words out of context is exactly what you did. If you read what came before and what came after you just quoted me for, then you'd see that I didn't say all Hot Ac and Pop songs have a thin line. Like the part where (God how many times will I have to repeat myself) I even gave examples of 2 major HAC artists who I said were NOT Pop.

Well if I thought of your statement was very biased, then that is my opinion, so be it. I personally wouldn't care less what anyone thought about me or my statements either. It's so funny how we get emotional when we are trying to assess the facts, which is what I'm going by. I tried to use factual resources which can has some influence on the pop charts like the Billboard Album charts and "Hot 100."

It's funny how now you say this, when you were the original person that got so insulted by "the backlash of Rap." My opinion is that for the past 2 years, CHR/Pop has been leaning too far towards Chr/Rhthmic. Sorry if the fact that you disagree with me makes me "emotional."

I don't go by hearsay or opinions, that kind of stuff can be left for the dogs. I don't know where on earth you came out with a statement like "I wish the pop top 10 was all rap," for my reason for calling someone biased. Which is something that I never implied or said.
You stated that a lot of Hot AC and pop songs have a thin line. Not the other formats. Which led to my statement of thinking that you were biased.

Again, I also said there are as many Rhythmic songs that have a thin line between them and Pop as there are Hot AC songs. A classic case of only reading what you want to.

Your approach is very childish, by saying or implying that I called you biased because of the top 10 isn't all rap or something of that nature.

So now I'm childish in addition to emotional! LOL, ok if you say so. And considering I said above many times that a song like "Get Low" is not out of place on Pop radio, and you still insist I want an all Hot AC pop chart, then I stand by what i said. You'd complain unless I said I want an all Rap Pop chart.

So you are the one who need to relax and take a chill pill my friend.

LOL. A little hipocritical considering you're the one who brought sarcasm and rudeness into this thread, such as these snide little lines:

To irice22:

Who died and called you clairvoyant? LOL.

To me:

Have you been reviewing what you have been typing?

[krazymack]

The said:

I totally agree with Adam. There's a whole format dedicated to Urban while plenty of pure pop acts are getting overlooked. Anyway, a lot of this Urban material that is getting played is total crap. Baby Bash, Lil' Jon, 50 Cent, Chingy... YUCK. I would have absolutely no problem with rap on pop radio if they were actually playing artists like The Roots, Pitch Black, and other alternative rap artists. It's bad enough that entire formats are dedicating themselves to that rap garbage, but now the only places to run from that is Adult Contemporary, Alternative, and Smooth Jazz.

Yes...well that's truth, but are The Roots, Pitch Black, and those other alternative acts popular. Not really.

[Deleted]

krazymack said:

Yes...well that's truth, but are The Roots, Pitch Black, and those other alternative acts popular. Not really.

Yeah, well Chingy and Lil Jon are not talented. So what's your point?

[krazymack]

The said:

...and krazymack, this is obviously a race issue with you. You and I both know that plenty of black artists are being overlooked. I personally think the black artists at pop radio are giving the race a bad name. I'm sick of hearing that Urban music is trash when there are artists like, say, The Roots, Heather Headley, and Kindred The Family Soul out there. Do you really like people perceiving black music as Chingy and all that other bling bling, commercial gangsta trash?

First off race wasn't the sole factor for my argument. However you make very good points on these blasphemous hiphop figures and their role on Urban music. Yes, it is disturbing and that is something that I agree with. But I can't change the way popular music is either -- I can't deny genres from being played because it in itself would be biased.

I am black, but I don't at act "hiphop" or "gangsta" or whatever they call it that Chingy or Ludacris does. Their life is not a reflection on me. So how are they giving me a black person a bad rap. In fact, I think of myself positively, so whatever someone thinks - I really don't give a crap. That's all that I have to say about that.

[krazymack]

The said:

Yeah, well Chingy and Lil Jon are not talented. So what's your point?

Yeah they are not talented but popular. Right Josh? Let's not move away from the actual point. CHR/Pop - means popular.

[Crushcrushchris]

krazymack said:

First off race wasn't the sole factor for my argument. However you make very good points on these blasphemous hiphop figures and their role on Urban music. Yes, it is disturbing and that is something that I agree with. But I can't change the way popular music is either -- I can't deny genres from being played because it in itself would be biased.

I am black, but I don't at act "hiphop" or "gangsta" or whatever they call it that Chingy or Ludacris does. Their life is not a reflection on me. So how are they giving me a black person a bad rap. In fact, I'm a positive person so whatever someone thinks - I really don't give a crap. That's all that I have to say about that.

Excellent point krazymack.

It's the music that's popular and not so much the image (which is really I think a form of escapism (uh oh I'm getting all psychological)).

I am black, but I don't at act "hiphop" or "gangsta" or whatever they call it that Chingy or Ludacris does. Their life is not a reflection on me.

Same here, same here.

[620 Soul Train]

I am just putting my 2 cents in, unlike 50s LOL. Anyway, i am glad that CHR is starting to play more non-rhythmic songs. I strongly believe that it's the labels that are putting these on the top as well the media. You know, the ones with all of the talent without the hype are ghetting pushed to the backburner because they really do not have what it takes to sell their product/music to the general public. Let's face, the majour labels are the ones that are going to get the most airplay, simply because they have the dough, others such as indies may have a hard time, which therefore can't promote the artists. I think that a number of these artists have some enough talent to satisfy the public in addition to the their image. Some the qualifications may include choreography, image, and hook. Yeah CHR = Popular, you can't do mucg of anything about it. The majour labels probably play a large role in what radio is going to "spin", however I am hoping that they are adjusting and/or adapting to what the public really wants to hear on one radio station. By looking at the Hot 100 and the LP charts pop radio maybe doing the right thing at the moment.

[irice22]

I completely agree with what Jersey Boy is saying. I also think mainstream CHR is in a great period right now with a balanced amount of rock, pop, and hip-hop. Last year it seemed like pop had faded and mainstream was either rock, hip-hop, or heavily influenced R&B pop.

Exactly! Therefore I see a fade, not that I can see the future.

[allow that]

irice22 said:

Exactly! Therefore I see a fade, not that I can see the future.

you mean you're not clairvoyant? LOL

[jimmy74747]

When I first started listening to music, hair metal was the in thing. Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and others scored huge albums by combing mainstream pop with heavy metal. Seeing what happened here, every label rushed out a few hair metal acts such as White Lion, Winger, Firehouse, Saigon Kick, and on and on. These bands while selling albums and getting radio play, pretty much rehashed everything that came out before that. By 1992-93, hair metal was dead.

Same thing happened in the mid 90's with alternative rock, which faded as fast as it rose.

It also happened with teen-pop. Everyone wanted their own BSB, N Sync or Britney. The market became flooded and the genre is now just about gone.

This is happening to the whole "bling bling" rap scene. You had Eminem, Nelly and a couple of others scoring big, so now there are all of these talentless hacks. Just like Firehouse and O-Town before them, Chingy will get radio play because it is safe. They'll sell but receive backlash, which leads to the whole genre going under.

That is where rap is now. It will always do well on urban radio, but its CHR/pop days are numbered. There is no original rap music out right now (with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions), and Stacie Orrico pop music will get the airplay until the next big thing is found.

Rap is on its last legs on the Pop charts. History speaks for itself.

[irice22]

you mean you're not clairvoyant? LOL

As much as I wish I was, no.

[benmcd2000]

Nice to see all the replys...Top 40 Mainstream radio is slowly but surely coming back!

[Deleted]

If pop means popular, where are Toby Keith and Josh Groban on the CHR/Pop chart?

[JCMF3]

The said:

If pop means popular, where are Toby Keith and Josh Groban on the CHR/Pop chart?

"Popular" is used in the context of demographics. What is "popular" with women aged whatever to whatever is what the music industry calls "pop". Just like artists that appeal such and such a demographic are labeled "urban" or "country" or "AC", etc. You cannot use the Webster's book dictionary of popular and relate it to the music charts.

And, to briefly comment on this issue, like I have said before, pop music is ALWAYS around!!! You can subdivide it, relabel it, etc, but the fact is that the music we call "pop" evolves from era to era. Whether ballads are in or hip-hop or even country (yes, country music was on the pop charts in the past), so long as they meet the criteria for the "pop" culture on radio, they will be played. So, it is silly for me to see questions like "Is pop music making a comeback?" because it never went anywhere! LOL, The appropriate question should be "Is pop music entering a new phase?" or "Is hip-hop music becoming less popular?" Those are the right questions to ask.

[ExActLy99]

If pop means popular, where are Toby Keith and Josh Groban on the CHR/Pop chart?

IMO, Toby Keith doesn't need to be on the Pop chart, there are thousands of country stations you can listen to him on, Josh Groban I can see, there isn't a whole lot of AC stations. I think every artist should get a fair chance at radio and some of the better artists aren't getting heard enough of because Pop won't play them. Pop is where everything that isn't being heard enough should come and get played, yeah it sounds really stupid, but it just seems right. And Billboard shouldn't mean anything, the album chart: I would never stand up for Britney, but it looks like she will more than likely sell 1 million copies in her first 2 weeks, Pop is the only format playing her, so why shouldn't she be in the Top 5 right now? Rap albums aren't always the hottest selling albums, Outkast definetly deserves to be at #1 considering they've sold over 4 million copies in their first few months. But then you have artist like Sarah McLachlan, who are doing really well, but she can't even crack the Top 60 yet? She isn't being played that much, just at Hot Ac, and a small portion of AC, because Christmas songs are taking up her airplay, and what's worst this is the kind of music that sounds very much fit for Pop radio. But then on the other hand, Black Eyed Peas made #1 for a very long time, but their album never made it too far.
I don't really know what I just tried to prove, but I'm just adding to this conversation that will never end because no matter what happens on the Pop chart, there will always be someone who isn't satisfied!!