Billboard Mainstream Top 40 Year-End

[j]

Well bad example. I'm sure someone else can name a song that spent over 10 weeks at #1 on Alternative and didn't hit the Pop chart. I don't follow Alternative so I don't know.

But the argument still holds. Anyway this reminds me of the time someone said something along the lines of 90% of the population having heard "Complicated". I don't think that's true.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

jae said:

Well bad example. I'm sure someone else can name a song that spent over 10 weeks at #1 on Alternative and didn't hit the Pop chart. I don't follow Alternative so I don't know.

But the argument still holds. Anyway this reminds me of the time someone said something along the lines of 90% of the population having heard "Complicated". I don't think that's true.

I cant even look at a spin based chart and think its accurate because large spins totals mean that the DJ likes it large listening audience mean that the listeners like it. Back to my original point that Miss Independent was not very big and pop radio is nothing more than a format not a coming together of all the formats.

[EvanJ]

jae said:

Well bad example. I'm sure someone else can name a song that spent over 10 weeks at #1 on Alternative and didn't hit the Pop chart. I don't follow Alternative so I don't know.

"By The Way" should be the most recent one. I remember it made the Top 50 of the Billboard Hot 100 which a rock song normally doesn't do without crossing over.

[mst3k]

Adonis said:

large spins totals mean that the DJ likes it.

Actually it means the MD likes it... the DJ seldom gets to choose what he or she plays. Point taken though.

[Hot AC Archiver]

Adonis said:

... large listening audience mean that the listeners like it.

This is not necessarily true. It could just mean that the MD at a station with a larger audience likes the song and not necessarily the audience itself.

(Granted, if the MD repeatedly plays music the audience dislikes, the station's audience would decrease with time.)

[RRMusicGuy]

DuckHead said:

I was taking into account all formats. And I think "Miss Independent" should still be higher.

And anyway, Pop is without argument the most important format, and I think anything that spends 6 weeks at # 1 on Pop should be ranked higher than # 44.

How is Pop the most important format. Rythemic and urban conbined have WAY more listeners... "Miss Independent" was not a bigger hit than "How You going to act like that" more Americans would probably recognize the Tyrese song.

[DuckHead]

RR said:

How is Pop the most important format. Rythemic and urban conbined have WAY more listeners... "Miss Independent" was not a bigger hit than "How You going to act like that" more Americans would probably recognize the Tyrese song.

I disagree. I think more Americans would recognize "Miss Independent". I actually don't even think it would be close between the two.

And Pop is the most important format because it's the Pop format. It's the biggest format, it has the most stations, it's the only format that plays all types of music and it is the format that record companies release singles for. If an artist had a choice of being popular on one format, they would probably pick Pop. They would sell the most records being popular on Pop.

[jimmy74747]

DuckHead said:

I disagree. I think more Americans would recognize "Miss Independent". I actually don't even think it would be close between the two.

You beat me to the punch there. I would bet my left arm more people have heard of MI than that Tyrese song. Part of it is because of American Idol, but remember Kelly also got AC and Hot AC airplay with that song, and more people listen to AC radio than urban or rhythmic. They just don't play the top songs 10-15 times a day. Thats why the difference in audience impression.

[af18c]

RR said:

How is Pop the most important format. Rythemic and urban conbined have WAY more listeners... "Miss Independent" was not a bigger hit than "How You going to act like that" more Americans would probably recognize the Tyrese song.

Keyword...combined!

CHR/Pop Audience: 957.26
Rhythmic/Urban Combined Audience: 1466.228

Obviously you cant compare them because its almost double Pop's...thats like saying "Christina's and Britney's album sales combined are equal to Madonna's" ya just cant do it...And by the way...I think you have the thing about "Miss Independent" and "How You Gonna Act Like That" backwards...

ps: learn how to spell ;)

[EvanJ]

Those two numbers aren't almost double.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

jimmy74747 said:

You beat me to the punch there. I would bet my left arm more people have heard of MI than that Tyrese song. Part of it is because of American Idol, but remember Kelly also got AC and Hot AC airplay with that song, and more people listen to AC radio than urban or rhythmic. They just don't play the top songs 10-15 times a day. Thats why the difference in audience impression.

I can almost garantee my parents don't know who Kelly Clarkson is but they know who Tyrese is. Just on the name recognition alone Tyrese is a lot bigger. He was an MTV host. Most people do not put much stock into those american idols because for the most part their music has been subpar music. I also know very few of my R&b/Rhythmic-Urban friends have no recollection of any of kelly clarkson other than she was the winner of the first american idol. My pop friends know who she is but most them dont like her music.

[jimmy74747]

Adonis said:

I can almost garantee my parents don't know who Kelly Clarkson is but they know who Tyrese is. Just on the name recognition alone Tyrese is a lot bigger. He was an MTV host.

Wow, our parents are the opposite, because mine know who Kelly Clarkson is, but while I may be wrong here, I'm pretty sure they have no idea who Tyrese is.

Also, MTV has a limited audience. Other than its reality shows, MTV has no more than 1 million viewers at a time, while 25 million people watched Kelly crowned American Idol. Also, I bet at least 20 million watched when she performed "Miss Independent" on season two. She is more known than Tyrese, or just about every other r&b star that has had limited pop success.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

jimmy74747 said:

Wow, our parents are the opposite, because mine know who Kelly Clarkson is, but while I may be wrong here, I'm pretty sure they have no idea who Tyrese is.

Also, MTV has a limited audience. Other than its reality shows, MTV has no more than 1 million viewers at a time, while 25 million people watched Kelly crowned American Idol. Also, I bet at least 20 million watched when she performed "Miss Independent" on season two. She is more known than Tyrese, or just about every other r&b star that has had limited pop success.

You forget that people may know who she is they may know who he is. It doesn't matter How You Gonna Act Like That was a bigger hit no matter how you slice it. Kelly Clarkson was just popular on a hit television show which means little or nothing in the music world. A lot of people know who clay Aiken is but I dont hear any of you complaining in his favor. Just because you are on a hit television show doesn't garantee your hit was any bigger than anyone else's. Most people do not even listen to pop stations these days they listen to other stations. While they may have heard of an artist that doesn't garantee they want to hear that artists music.

[af18c]

Adonis said:

It doesn't matter How You Gonna Act Like That was a bigger hit no matter how you slice it. Kelly Clarkson was just popular on a hit television show which means little or nothing in the music world.

Lets take this to the polls...

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Adonis said:

A lot of people know who clay Aiken is but I dont hear any of you complaining in his favor. Just because you are on a hit television show doesn't garantee your hit was any bigger than anyone else's.

You're helping the other side there and you're right. That means that it's not the TV show that is helping Kelly's song be a big hit.
I think it obviously depends on where one lives to determine what song is a bigger hit. Different cities have different stations and stuff. If you have a city that has 3 Urban stations and a Rhythmic station but no pop or Hot AC station, has BET but doesn't have VH1 on their cable system and always has hip-hop concerts but barely has rock concerts, chances are Tyrese's song would be a bigger hit there.
However, looking at the whole picture of the US with Tyrese vs Kelly. I definately agree with Kelly having the bigger hit.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

t.h.e.m.a.x.x.x. said:

You're helping the other side there and you're right. That means that it's not the TV show that is helping Kelly's song be a big hit.
I think it obviously depends on where one lives to determine what song is a bigger hit. Different cities have different stations and stuff. If you have a city that has 3 Urban stations and a Rhythmic station but no pop or Hot AC station, has BET but doesn't have VH1 on their cable system and always has hip-hop concerts but barely has rock concerts, chances are Tyrese's song would be a bigger hit there.
However, looking at the whole picture of the US with Tyrese vs Kelly. I definately agree with Kelly having the bigger hit.

Knowing that a song is available is much different than actually liking the song. If that were the case than Britney Spears records would be on the year end chart.