If It's Love (Train)

[(Artie Ziff)]

Follow up to the soon-to-be #1 at AAA (and #50 rock!) Hey, Soul Sister goes out in two weeks according to Billboard. Much more favorable to the rock side, and how often do you hear a song referencing Winger and Henry Lee Summer? Pretty, pretty, pretty good.

[singingsparrow]

This is unquestionably among the radio-friendly half of the tracks on the album.

It's not among my favorites from the record, but definitely a step up from "Hey, Soul Sister". Lyrically it's just as quirky and happy-go-lucky, but not nearly as cringe-inducing with name-drops that bleed over a breadth of a single verse and playing Gangsters and Thugs.

Sincerely,
Lisping Hibiscus

[(Artie Ziff)]

I love the retro feel of the title track. The Black Water sorta-cover is pretty cool. This song is just right for radio. I'm sure a slow song is coming soon.

[singingsparrow]

Dec 8, 2009 18:38:57 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

I love the retro feel of the title track. The Black Water sorta-cover is pretty cool. This song is just right for radio. I'm sure a slow song is coming soon.

The title track is one of the strongest tracks on the album, in my opinion...........but it just doesn't strike me as a general single candidate. I think it would be great if they released it separately to Triple A though.

"I Got You", minus that lame Sonny & Cher reference in the chorus, is not bad. Not one of my favorites from the album, but also not a cringe-inducing instance of selective borrowing (i.e Uncle Kracker's Auto-Tune induced play with Whitesnake's "Here I Go Again").

I have no doubt "This Ain't Goodbye" will be released as the eventual obligatory ballad, unless album sales don't stabilize which then this album will probably only go two singles deep.

Sincerely,
Lisping Hibiscus

[singingsparrow]

Dec 10, 2009 9:29:42 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

More than the last album I suppose.

They released two general singles from "For Me, It's You", plus a third Triple A-only radio release ("Am I Reaching You Now?") which charted poorly.

"Save Me, San Francisco" is selling poorly so far (its debut was even weaker than "For Me, It's You" position-wise) but should "Hey, Soul Sister" extend its scope into Mainstream Top 40 or AC successfully, the album may start selling more steadily.

Sincerely,
Lisping Hibiscus

[The Party Captain]

Dec 10, 2009 1:48:00 GMT -5 @singingsparrow said:

Dec 8, 2009 18:38:57 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

I love the retro feel of the title track. The Black Water sorta-cover is pretty cool. This song is just right for radio. I'm sure a slow song is coming soon.

"I Got You", minus that lame Sonny & Cher reference in the chorus, is not bad. Not one of my favorites from the album, but also not a cringe-inducing instance of selective borrowing (i.e Uncle Kracker's Auto-Tune induced play with Whitesnake's "Here I Go Again")

You really don't like namedrops, do you Noah?

[singingsparrow]

Dec 10, 2009 21:37:19 GMT -5 The Party Captain said:

Dec 10, 2009 1:48:00 GMT -5 @singingsparrow said:

"I Got You", minus that lame Sonny & Cher reference in the chorus, is not bad. Not one of my favorites from the album, but also not a cringe-inducing instance of selective borrowing (i.e Uncle Kracker's Auto-Tune induced play with Whitesnake's "Here I Go Again")

You really don't like namedrops, do you Noah?

When a name drop contributes something to the song, whether it's through commentary or personal homage or satire, then that is perfectly fine and I have no problem with that.

That's hardly the case there, where it's as though Monahan had written some of the lyrics out and then already had "I Got You" as a tentative title then suddenly thought "Hey, there's a song of the same title by Sonny & Cher! (laughs) I should include that somewhere in the song!"

It just gets annoying when it seems Monahan is more interested in sweeping a global 80's-themed Trivia Pursuit Tournament than actually write heartfelt and/or engaging songs that, yes, also have a light, childfree spirit to them.

"Drops of Jupiter" was great because Monahan employed both qualities into the song. "Meet Virginia" was great because as eccentric as the lyrics were, they composed a believable character profile. With "I've Got You", it adds nothing to the song.

Sincerely,
Lisping Hibiscus

[The Party Captain]

Dec 10, 2009 15:17:06 GMT -5 @singingsparrow said:

"Save Me, San Francisco" is selling poorly so far (its debut was even weaker than "For Me, It's You" position-wise) but should "Hey, Soul Sister" extend its scope into Mainstream Top 40 or AC successfully, the album may start selling more steadily.

I feel like right now, we are experiencing the last hurrah of the 90s and early 2000s pop rock bands. Train, Uncle Kracker (although not really a band), Third Eye Blind, Collective Soul, Sugar Ray, Creed, Sister Hazel, and Five For Fighting have all released "anticipated" albums that have failed commercially. One could say Creed has done well, but they have been playing half-empty arenas that are giving tickets for 25 cents.

I feel some singles such as Smile and Hey Soul Sister have probably connected more with radio people than with the actual audience. Thus, resulting in poor sales.

[The Party Captain]

And don't forget illegal downloading.

[singingsparrow]

Dec 18, 2009 1:32:05 GMT -5 The Party Captain said:

Dec 10, 2009 15:17:06 GMT -5 @singingsparrow said:

"Save Me, San Francisco" is selling poorly so far (its debut was even weaker than "For Me, It's You" position-wise) but should "Hey, Soul Sister" extend its scope into Mainstream Top 40 or AC successfully, the album may start selling more steadily.

I feel like right now, we are experiencing the last hurrah of the 90s and early 2000s pop rock bands. Train, Uncle Kracker (although not really a band), Third Eye Blind, Collective Soul, Sugar Ray, Creed, Sister Hazel, and Five For Fighting have all released "anticipated" albums that have failed commercially. One could say Creed has done well, but they have been playing half-empty arenas that are giving tickets for 25 cents.

I feel some singles such as Smile and Hey Soul Sister have probably connected more with radio people than with the actual audience. Thus, resulting in poor sales.

I don't think anyone can say Creed is doing well with their "Full Circle" era thus far. It has been a commercial disaster in every respect.

I strongly agree with that contention. I'd also add that multiple hit singles for any band to emerge from that era from an album are the only reason any band are holding one's own.

Lifehouse is an excellent example. "Stanley Climbfall" was a sophomore slump for the band then, miraculously, they soared back when "You & Me" from their third album became almost as big a hit as "Hanging By A Moment". Despite that, it didn't provide enough of an incentive to non-radio listeners to purchase their self-titled album, and it only went Gold. Then, with "Who We Are", the album sold badly at first and, even after the second single "Whatever It Takes" became equally as big a hit as the lead single, it still sold slowly, albeit more steadily, and it wasn't until "Broken" received airplay that the album went Gold, although the album has since outsold their self-titled album from what I've heard, which can be credited to having more than one hit this particular era.

The bottom line: had Lifehouse not been as successful as they were during the "Who We Are" era singles-wise, they all but certainly would be reduced to Sister Hazel status on Hot AC............regularly charting the Top 40 and with luck the Top 30, but never the Top 20 again.

Sincerely,
Lisping Hibiscus

[pen]

While the summary of most of those bands' careers is apt, it's a little unfair to paint it as if it's a failure or as if it's the end of something. Third Eye Blind and Sugar Ray for example have both been quoted as understanding the position that they're in with regards to the mainstream and embracing it, which is great. It's not like all these bands are still searching for commerical success. Most of them are quite happy with where they are right now, because they now at least have a more dedicated and close-knit fanbase that will continue to support their future efforts. Sister Hazel is a prime example of this since they haven't had a successful album since the turn of the century, but they keep putting out material and doing tours and events. Is it the end of this kind of music being commercially viable or at the very least commercially visible? Absolutely. But it's not the end of the music is my point and the current direction of talk makes it sound like it is.

I would separate Creed from all these bands though just because Creed is a different musical animal than the rest and their brand of music is still highly active on radio. It's true that both their touring and album has not brought in the revenue that Wind-Up was probably expecting, and I chalk that up to a combination of them being out of the spotlight for so long, the typical crises of the current music industry, and the fact that probably much of their casual fanbase from their first albums have now moved on to other things. Although I personally think Full Circle is one of my favorite albums of the year and it's a shame that their return isn't generating the success that it should.

[The Party Captain]

^I fully agree. I am a Creed fan from long ago that has moved onto other music. I think a lot of the commercial failure can be attributed to that. The fans that grew up listening to Train, Collective Soul, Vertical Horizon, etc. are now in college and are either spending money on other things or illegally downloading.

There are 3 bands from this era that I think could make a comeback in the next 2-3 years: Matchbox Twenty, Hootie & the Blowfish, and The Wallflowers. Matchbox Twenty and Hootie can comeback thanks to solo success. I'm going out on a limb with The Wallflowers.

Noah, it's ironic that you used the example of Sister Hazel, because their latest album hit #1 on the iTunes rock chart.

[PHOBES]

They're just citing examples, I'm sure there are many others that would fit.

[pen]

Dec 18, 2009 16:10:34 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

How could Tonic be left out of this discussion?

Tonic hasn't released a new album since 2001 and Emerson Hart's solo album did very well?

[The Party Captain]

Dec 18, 2009 16:10:34 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

How could Tonic be left out of this discussion?

Because they've haven't been relevant since the last millennium. They pretty much took a Rip Van Winkle and slept for the past 10 years. These bands have at least put out new material. :)

[lockebox]

Dec 18, 2009 16:10:34 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

How could Tonic be left out of this discussion?

Well, if you're gonna go down route you can add Vertical Horizon and Marcy Playground to the list. Bands such as Oleander, Tonic, Days of the New and Lit are scheduled to have albums released next year aswell. All will flop.

[pen]

Dec 18, 2009 18:12:23 GMT -5 lockebox said:

Dec 18, 2009 16:10:34 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

How could Tonic be left out of this discussion?

Well, if you're gonna go down route you can add Vertical Horizon and Marcy Playground to the list. Bands such as Oleander, Tonic, Days of the New and Lit are scheduled to have albums released next year aswell. All will flop.

Probably but let's not be a negative Nancy here.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Or a douchebag.

[pen]

Yes, they are. They are working on a new album. But nothing's been released from that yet.

[(Artie Ziff)]

The lead singer had a couple of singles that charted also. Decent sound.

[singingsparrow]

Dec 21, 2009 12:55:39 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

The lead singer had a couple of singles that charted also. Decent sound.

"Last Of Seven" was a decent album overall, but I couldn't stand the lead single "Her Eyes". Like "Hey, Soul Sister", the lyrics were just awful (especially the "She liked Michael Jackson up until he made 'Bad'" one)

I really liked the second single ("Two Ways To Say Goodbye") though, which the acoustic version is even more enjoyable. "Pirate On The Run" and "Shine" were also among Monahan's best to date.

Sincerely,
Lisping Hibiscus

[pen]

I think he meant Emerson Hart but I could be wrong.

[(Artie Ziff)]

I meant Hart, but the bands and singers offer some pretty similar parallels. Monahan also had Someday getting some airplay I recall.

[The Party Captain]

I did hear one of Hart's singles played on the radio. It was Hot AC though.

[Jorge_Str [Som3on3]]

great song! that band needs a rock single, their last 2 charted songs on mainstream rock were "She's on fire" and "Calling All Angels", in 2001 and 2003 respectively

i believe that this song has the needed potential to hit the rock charts, and especially right now that the lead single rocks on hot adults charts

[PHOBES]

I saw the video on VH1 multiple times. It was definitely a successful solo project for him.

[PHOBES]

I was referring to Hart, but the same can be said of Monahan.

[(Artie Ziff)]

You saw his video multiple times, or his solo album was successful? Or both?

[The Party Captain]

I've been unable to locate any music video of Hart's.

[PHOBES]

Dec 28, 2009 9:28:59 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

You saw his video multiple times, or his solo album was successful? Or both?

Well, all of the above I suppose...

Dec 28, 2009 11:23:13 GMT -5 The Party Captain said:

I've been unable to locate any music video of Hart's.