lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 13:15:19 GMT -5
I think the problem is the market is becoming pretty saturated with "guys who play the guitar". Cook, Kris, and now looks like Lee will win AI so yet another guy who plays the guitar. I think both Cook and Kris will struggle when their second albums come out. Unless they can come up with a string of solid pop hits. That is exactly right. If Lee wins Idol that will be the thid year in a row for a "guitar guy" lol. Enough already! Daughtry set an unwanted trend for these "rock" guys. I remember when you weren't allowed to play instruments on AI. I doubt that Kris Allen would be where he is now if that was the case during the season he won. I expect both sophomore efforts from Cook & Kris Allen to flop tbh. Allen's AI buzz will be gone, and I doubt the material will be strong enough to hold it's own on pop. As for Cook, he needs to get into a band (ala Daughtry) if he's to rekindle his career. Pop doesn't get him. Let's try rock, I say.
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frank
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Post by frank on May 25, 2010 13:27:04 GMT -5
I remember when you weren't allowed to play instruments on AI. I doubt that Kris Allen would be where he is now if that was the case during the season he won. And? All this "what if" stuff doesn't change history/what's occurring today, and it's really a moot point.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 13:34:36 GMT -5
I remember when you weren't allowed to play instruments on AI. I doubt that Kris Allen would be where he is now if that was the case during the season he won. And? All this "what if" stuff doesn't change history/what's occurring today, and it's really a moot point. I was just saying that as it looks like AI will have three consecutive pop-rock male guitarists win. I think we all know that Kris Allen didn't deserve to win anyway. Even he would admit that.
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Kworb
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Post by Kworb on May 25, 2010 13:36:59 GMT -5
Yeah obviously you get different results when you expand your talent pool and start looking for musicians and songwriters and not just pure vocalists.
I definitely think Kris has more pop hits in him. There are at least two on this album already that he wrote. So when he has more time to write and record the next album, I'm sure he can crank out a few more. The only issue is that it wouldn't get much of a push on radio. It would probably have to smash on HAC and then cross over.
Of course, first we have to see if he even gets another major label album.
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Kworb
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Post by Kworb on May 25, 2010 13:41:23 GMT -5
And? All this "what if" stuff doesn't change history/what's occurring today, and it's really a moot point. I was just saying that as it looks like AI will have three consecutive pop-rock male guitarists win. I think we all know that Kris Allen didn't deserve to win anyway. Even he would admit that. Nah he always says they "both deserved to win". It's silly anyway. How can you determine who "deserves" to win? Other than asking people to vote for their favorite, which is what the show does.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 13:44:13 GMT -5
I was just saying that as it looks like AI will have three consecutive pop-rock male guitarists win. I think we all know that Kris Allen didn't deserve to win anyway. Even he would admit that. Nah he always says they "both deserved to win". It's silly anyway. How can you determine who "deserves" to win? Other than asking people to vote for their favorite, which is what the show does. Well, Lambert is doing better post-Idol. So, there's the proof. I'm pleased Allen got a shot though. He seems like a nice guy with some amounts of talent.
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Kworb
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Post by Kworb on May 25, 2010 13:49:47 GMT -5
Nah he always says they "both deserved to win". It's silly anyway. How can you determine who "deserves" to win? Other than asking people to vote for their favorite, which is what the show does. Well, Lambert is doing better post-Idol. So, there's the proof. I'm pleased Allen got a shot though. He seems like a nice guy with some amounts of talent. But that's all after the fact. Kellie Pickler is one of the most successful Idol contestants. But she sure as hell didn't "deserve" to go any further than sixth place with all her dreadful performances.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 13:57:04 GMT -5
Haha. Touche. But Lambert's performances on Idol were better imo. Allen had a lot of dreary, lackluster moments, bouncing around on guitar. There was never a dull moment with Lambert. Every performance was spectacular and mesmerizing. Even people such as Slash have came out and said this.
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Kworb
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Post by Kworb on May 25, 2010 14:07:07 GMT -5
Haha. Touche. But Lambert's performances on Idol were better imo. Allen had a lot of dreary, lackluster moments, bouncing around on guitar. There was never a dull moment with Lambert. Every performance was spectacular and mesmerizing. Even people such as Slash have came out and said this. Yes I agree. Adam was also my favorite. Nothing will ever beat his Rain Of Fire performance. But Kris had a few gems of his own, and he peaked at the right time. Adam went off his game the last two weeks. In the end it was what it was. I only have good memories of the season. :) Unlike the current one, which I hope to forget very quickly.
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crazychick
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Post by crazychick on May 25, 2010 14:12:48 GMT -5
You know, Idol is long over for these guys. It really doesn't matter who did or didn't win. Most people who aren't Idol fans have little clue about who finished where. If Kris puts out music that enough people want to listen to and buy, he'll be successful. If he doesn't, then he won't. Same thing with Adam. It's way too early in their careers to call either of them a flop or a star. So far, both have had some success, not enough to guarantee them a long career, but enough that they are both going out on tour this summer & enough that both will likely get a 2nd album
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sabrina
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Post by sabrina on May 25, 2010 14:48:27 GMT -5
Well, Lambert is doing better post-Idol. So, there's the proof. huh? forbes top earning idols last yearkris - $672 000, top ten hit on chr adam - not on the list, top ten hit on h100 they've both got careers, but just 'cause adam's flashier and a media darling doesn't mean he's 'doing better'.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 15:00:41 GMT -5
Well, Lambert is doing better post-Idol. So, there's the proof. huh? forbes top earning idols last yearkris - $672 000, top ten hit on chr adam - not on the list, top ten hit on h100 they've both got careers, but just 'cause adam's flashier and a media darling doesn't mean he's 'doing better'. The amount of money they earn isn't the point. Adam Lambert's album has sold better and "Whataya Want from Me" did better than "Live Like We're Dying".
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sabrina
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Post by sabrina on May 25, 2010 15:20:23 GMT -5
huh? forbes top earning idols last yearkris - $672 000, top ten hit on chr adam - not on the list, top ten hit on h100 they've both got careers, but just 'cause adam's flashier and a media darling doesn't mean he's 'doing better'. The amount of money they earn isn't the point. Adam Lambert's album has sold better and "Whataya Want from Me" did better than "Live Like We're Dying". sigh. i do not have these numbers memorized off the top of my head, since i'm not particularly invested in either of these artists, but what were the chr+h100 peaks & sales for both songs? they were comparable. so in terms of....idk, let's call it 'pop cultural impact', they did about the same. taking that into account + the fact kris pulled in more dough, WHY do you think it's adam that 'did better'?
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tsw2008
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Post by tsw2008 on May 25, 2010 15:26:56 GMT -5
Well I think "lockebox" has a point. I mean I think it's great that Kris is making more money than Adam (who I don't like very much, I will admit that) but long term it looks like Adam might stick around for longer. He is probably making the label more money as his album has sold over twice as many copies as Kiris' album and so have his singles.
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ZAYN
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Post by ZAYN on May 25, 2010 15:33:49 GMT -5
yeah I'm pretty positive Kris peaked higher and sold more on that single sales duo. I cannot believe people are STILL comparing tho? MOVE ALONG!
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Kworb
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Post by Kworb on May 25, 2010 15:35:53 GMT -5
How did we even arrive at this tiresome discussion yet again? Right now it doesn't look like either will have a second hit.
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on May 25, 2010 15:36:49 GMT -5
Well. he's sold more albums so far than The Script and Train, so there's that. :) I agree we have to wait and see where he ends up. Jive traditionally doesn't need huge sales to stay interested so he may be fine. But without The Script, he wouldn't of had a hit. LOL! I wasn't trying to start anything, just trying to say something positive about Kris. The guy gets kicked around a lot on here. I'm saying though. They're gonna crown new Idols tomorrow. Let it go already!
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trei1658
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Post by trei1658 on May 25, 2010 16:15:11 GMT -5
You can say the same about Adam that without Pink, he would not have a hit either. Kris's peak positions did chart higher on pop, ac & hac than Adam. LLWD has sold more units than WWFM & FYI.
As far as longevity, that is TBD. Kris has other prospects besides just his music. He has a publishing deal that will allow him to write songs and market them to other people, television and film. He has already collaborated with Kate Voegle on a song. On the song writing front Matt Kearney has called him the real deal and Joe King has praised his writing abilities. So, Kris may never be a huge breakout star but he has a lot more going for him.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 17:03:27 GMT -5
The amount of money they earn isn't the point. Adam Lambert's album has sold better and "Whataya Want from Me" did better than "Live Like We're Dying". sigh. i do not have these numbers memorized off the top of my head, since i'm not particularly invested in either of these artists, but what were the chr+h100 peaks & sales for both songs? they were comparable. so in terms of ....idk, let's call it 'pop cultural impact', they did about the same. taking that into account + the fact kris pulled in more dough, WHY do you think it's adam that 'did better'? Lambert has sold many more albums + his lead single peaked higher on the hot 100. Both have done respectable, though.
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Envoirment
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Post by Envoirment on May 25, 2010 17:11:29 GMT -5
But without The Script, he wouldn't of had a hit. LOL! I wasn't trying to start anything, just trying to say something positive about Kris. The guy gets kicked around a lot on here. Hehe I know, I just like stanning for The Script from time to time if given the chance. I em. I do like Kris a lot too though. He is a good looking, talented guy and I hope he does better than what he has been doing. Album-wise anyway. :) I haven't heard much from him either, so I need to check out his album soon ;)
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sabrina
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Post by sabrina on May 25, 2010 17:12:24 GMT -5
yeah I'm pretty positive Kris peaked higher and sold more on that single sales duo. I cannot believe people are STILL comparing tho? MOVE ALONG! i know, as i was typing i was kicking myself :(
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Kworb
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Post by Kworb on May 25, 2010 17:15:03 GMT -5
Hot 100 peak doesn't mean anything. It's not like Today Was A Fairytale "did better" than Love Story. Kris and Adam's singles had similar airplay and will end up selling the same so you can't call it one way or another. Again, it would just be nice if they got more than one hit. Radio is much better off with their music on it.
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Continuum
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Post by Continuum on May 25, 2010 17:20:32 GMT -5
sigh. i do not have these numbers memorized off the top of my head, since i'm not particularly invested in either of these artists, but what were the chr+h100 peaks & sales for both songs? they were comparable. so in terms of ....idk, let's call it 'pop cultural impact', they did about the same. taking that into account + the fact kris pulled in more dough, WHY do you think it's adam that 'did better'? Lambert has sold many more albums + his lead single peaked higher on the hot 100. Both have done respectable, though. wasn't his lead single For Your Entertainment (which in fact did flop)???
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blindeyes
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Post by blindeyes on May 25, 2010 17:25:30 GMT -5
How can you determine Lambert deserved to win? The votes clearly and officially say otherwise. Lambert's lead single was "For Your Entertainment", which bombed. So in actuality "Live Like We're Dying" did better than Adam's lead, and "The Truth" would be matched with "Whataya Want From Me". Sales is the only area Adam leads Kris in, which would happen since Lambert is obviously more exposed than Allen, and for obvious reasons.
And it's ignorant to ignore the Forbes list, considering that's an indication of who is doing better.
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sabrina
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Post by sabrina on May 25, 2010 17:27:58 GMT -5
sigh. i do not have these numbers memorized off the top of my head, since i'm not particularly invested in either of these artists, but what were the chr+h100 peaks & sales for both songs? they were comparable. so in terms of ....idk, let's call it 'pop cultural impact', they did about the same. taking that into account + the fact kris pulled in more dough, WHY do you think it's adam that 'did better'? Lambert has sold many more albums + his lead single peaked higher on the hot 100. Both have done respectable, though. this is around where i'd resort to ad hominems. :)
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 17:45:10 GMT -5
Lambert has sold many more albums + his lead single peaked higher on the hot 100. Both have done respectable, though. this is around where i'd resort to ad hominems. :) Why? I'm just saying that Lambert has done better ??? I think the facts are there. I like both artists. You're looking way too much into this one statement I made.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 25, 2010 17:45:24 GMT -5
Wuuuuuuut?
You can find a whole set of facts to "prove" that either Kris or Adam has done better. The fact that you can do that means it's a wash. Adam gets more press attention because he's flashier, and that's basically it. You can't say Adam is categorically "better" because that's opinion. You can say you like Adam better, just as I can say I like Kris better. You can say Kris's performances were super dull on Idol, just as I can say I didn't enjoy a single one of Adam's performances.
Neither opinion really matters. In the end, both guys are doing OK. Not super fantastic awesome, but OK.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 25, 2010 17:49:35 GMT -5
I just pointing out the fact that Lambert has sold more records, which is the bottom line. But yes, both have done respectably well.
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Ke$haStan
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Post by Ke$haStan on May 25, 2010 18:16:33 GMT -5
Any pop adds?
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vithor
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Post by vithor on May 25, 2010 18:44:39 GMT -5
^1. WPRO
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