HINDER, "All-American Nightmare"

[PHOBES]

I really don't think there's that much of a difference in sound from 'Comatose' to 'Awake.' Sure, the former was better no doubt, but the overall sound is almost the same. The only clear difference was that there were more ballads, which doesn't really deter me at all.

"Awake and Alive" and "Lucy" may be my two favorite Skillet songs, both are definitely top five, but after that I'll admit most of the songs on 'Comatose' are superior. I'll also say there's a lack of rock singles on this album, AAA could go top 10 and they'd have nothing but "It's Not Me, It's You" to follow with. I wish they'd send a softer song to HAC a la "The Older I Get," they've fairly well established themselves on rock with this album. So yeah a lot of ballads, but I like ballads.

[pen]

All I got from that post was "you're right, but I don't agree with you."

[bhowes]

You're right, the Puddle stuff was manufactured and slapped together. The label was like, okay you have 2 days and we need a radio song asap. As far as Skillet goes, I was supposed to do that record, but couldn't because of my label deal with Interscope. It precludes me from producing a certain number of cuts outside of the label. So I just co-wrote a few songs.
Thx re Comatose, thats my fav record as well

[pen]

Labels. What can you do.

[(Artie Ziff)]

Extreme Behavior hands down for me. You were able to let their hair metal and drunk flags fly. And the writing is pop-based, to a fault by some critics, but flexible enough to be power ballads. Nice mix. I still play this album monthly.

[PHOBES]

Dec 22, 2010 19:00:19 GMT -5 pen said:

All I got from that post was "you're right, but I don't agree with you."

In essence:

Dec 22, 2010 16:00:30 GMT -5 pen said:

I agree. Comatose was brilliant. Awake... not so much. They should've gone back to you instead of Benson, really.

I agree that 'Comatose' is better, but not by the leaps and bounds you seem to think. The general sound of the album is the same, closer than any other two Skillet albums for sure. If I didn't know better I'd think the same guy produced both albums. Basically, I just don't see the huge dropoff or change that many have referenced.

[pen]

Quality of lyrics has declined and the hooks aren't nearly as strong, plus there's less of a symphonic presence, which was ultimately part of Comatose's strong appeal. Also, do we need to get into the whole TDG thing?

[PHOBES]

Dec 22, 2010 22:31:36 GMT -5 pen said:

Quality of lyrics has declined

I disagree

Dec 22, 2010 22:31:36 GMT -5 pen said:

The hooks aren't nearly as strong

I agree for the most part, though AAA and "Lucy" are top notch.

Dec 22, 2010 22:31:36 GMT -5 pen said:

There's less of a symphonic presence

I can agree with this as well, but it's still highly evident on some songs.

Dec 22, 2010 22:31:36 GMT -5 pen said:

Do we need to get into the whole TDG thing?

Did I bring it up? I don't recall...

[pen]

You didn't bring it up, I was asking if I needed to, because it's a valid knock against the disc. Yes, the symphonic influence is present on a couple of cuts, and those are the better songs of the set, but the remainders are extremely weak. And you can disagree with me if you want on the lyrics, but I maintain that they are also weak.

[david112]

Dec 22, 2010 23:03:42 GMT -5 pen said:

You didn't bring it up, I was asking if I needed to, because it's a valid knock against the disc. Yes, the symphonic influence is present on a couple of cuts, and those are the better songs of the set, but the remainders are extremely weak. And you can disagree with me if you want on the lyrics, but I maintain that they are also weak.

While the lyrics on some songs are generally weaker (SWYC and INMIY spring to mind) then those on Comatose they're still lyrically they're far stronger then many other bands at present so i'm not at all worried. Awake was a move towards mainstream rock for Skillet and while songs like Monster may be pretty generic I think it's a necessary step in the progression of the band. I'm sure their next album will overall be much stronger both musically and lyrically.

That said I still really like Awake. Awake And Alive, Lucy, One Day too Late, Sometimes and the B side Dead Inside were all excellent tracks.

[pen]

Dec 23, 2010 9:50:52 GMT -5 david112 said:

they're still lyrically they're far stronger then many other bands at present

Wrong.

[(Artie Ziff)]

Not sure either of you can win the argument on stronger writing. It's all subjective.

[The Party Captain]

Dec 24, 2010 15:26:32 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

Not sure either of you can win the argument on stronger writing. It's all subjective.

I will agree with you that to a certain extent, it is subjective. As alternative fans, however, we expect at least a small amount of personality. This is why we're here instead of chilling with the divas in CHR. Our music is supposed to be more flavorful. Rock is supposed to be reinventing itself unlike genres such as country, which simply regurgitates the same damn themes. Sure, nothing is new under the sun, but you can tell when there's more effort to achieve personality on a domesticated level. And it's easier to tell when there's isn't.

Dec 23, 2010 9:50:52 GMT -5 david112 said:

lyrically they're far stronger then many other bands at present so i'm not at all worried.

If you wanna hear some atrocious lyrics, pick up the new Gin Blossoms album. Draw a line through each cliche and you'll have about 2 to 3 songs worth of material. I guess I should've expected that since the real genius behind them is long passed, but Major Lodge Victory had my hopes up so much.

[(Artie Ziff)]

The song for the moment that just won't die. It's the oldest song on the chart that still retains a bullet, as it inches closer to another top five Active Rock Airplay achievement.