Stone Temple Pilots - "Cinnamon"

[lockebox]

Third single from their self-titled return. A music video is currently in the works. Heading to radio in late September.

[rockmaniac]

it's gonna get pushed back cuz Take A Load Off is currently getting some spins

[singingsparrow]

Aug 24, 2010 19:21:40 GMT -5 rockmaniac said:

it's gonna get pushed back cuz Take A Load Off is currently getting some spins

It isn't making much of an impression on Alternative radio, however.

I suppose this era confirms that Stone Temple Pilots and Bush are generally seen as also-ran staples of the (and I say this not meaning to pigeon-hole the band as I feel they transcend more than that wafer-thin label) "post-grunge" era compared to Alice In Chains. It remains to be seen how Soundgarden fares (I predict it'll be more in the former camp)

Namaste,
Lisping Hibiscus

[lockebox]

Well, "Take a Load Off" is done on Alt. I'm suprised by how poorly it's done. It does appear that STP & Bush are slightly past their sell-by dates.

[singingsparrow]

Aug 24, 2010 19:30:00 GMT -5 lockebox said:

Well, "Take a Load Off" is done on Alt. I'm suprised by how poorly it's done. It does appear that STP & Bush are slightly past their sell-by dates.

It's possible bad PR on behalf of the frontman of each band led to the diminished appeal of both bands' legacies.

Scott Weiland presently appears to have steadied himself from his addictions, but it may be too late to reassure many he alienated along the way he has centered himself and is at a new creative summit. They were willing to give him a chance with Velvet Revolver, but once he was subject to yet another scandal, followed by a mediocre solo album, it was the final straw to many who had followed him along patiently, and finally he tested their patience to the breaking point. It's probably much that same reason why "Chinese Democracy" failed for Axl Rose..........it was Rose's outspokenness and erratic personality that made the headlines foremost and not the music.

It's a different predicament with Gavin Rossdale. Unlike the Stone Temple Pilots, Bush has actually always been maligned critically, and they were already showing signs of slipping into also-ran oblivion before their disbanding. Even so, enough kept an open mind about Rossdale as he stepped out and helped form the unsuccessful Institute. I think it was the release of "WANDERlust" that has become a kiss of death to his career among core listeners, which I certainly thought was utterly bland, colorless and watered down to anonymous artistic insignificance, which is a sentiment surely shared widely among those that expected more from his days with Bush. He is pretty much seen as some post-grunge Phil Collins now, and that will be excruciatingly difficult for many to get past.

In spite of Layne's passing, I suppose Alice In Chains have remained as successful as ever because they're still perceived first and foremost as serious artists and have managed to discipline themselves and their musical ethic. With the Stone Temple Pilots and Bush, the conflicts overshadow the music considerably, and with that nostalgia also settles in to an overwhelming degree.

Namaste,
Lisping Hibiscus

[pen]

While I can't say I disgree with your synopsis, I should point out that both STP and Bush singles are still climbing the active charts right now, which is arguably more likely where they both belong considering where Alternative is tending to tread at the current moment. I'll also say that Gavin hasn't done a very good job of promoting Bush's return to the spotlight since the reunion, single, and album announcement were pretty much all done at the same time and not that long ago, and fairly quietly in my opinion.

Finally, I really enjoy Wanderlust, and this is coming from a long-time Bush fan. I can't say whether the Bush community at large feels the same and you maybe have a better idea than I do, but I thought Wanderlust was a well-done album. It wasn't grungy or heavy like Institute was as a follow-up to Bush, but I felt it still retained some key Bush elements and the songs in general were just stand out to me. I don't know though, it seems like there are some Bush fans who are consistently seeking a sequel to Sixteen Stone that is never going to happen. In fact, I think Golden State was the closest they ever came to repeating Sixteen Stone but that album basically tanked. Granted there were a lot of reasons for that.

[rockmaniac]

Aug 24, 2010 19:30:00 GMT -5 lockebox said:

Well, "Take a Load Off" is done on Alt. I'm suprised by how poorly it's done. It does appear that STP & Bush are slightly past their sell-by dates.

it's still hanging on in Active. bout to reach top 20, but Finger Eleven is right on their tail.

[American Idiot]

I'm surprised they're releasing another one so fast. I feel like "Take A Load Off" hasn't been out all that long.

[WotUNeed]

Hot new band of Arizona aviators?

[Shadows in the Dark]

I can't see this getting higher than Top 30 thanks to Take A Load Off failing, but I could be wrong (hopefully).

[rockmaniac]

Aug 25, 2010 17:06:39 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

Wow, this is pretty sudden if it's true. Huckleberry Crumble seems like a more obvious choice to me.

oh it's true, Art

[rockmaniac]

www.ergmusic.com/usa/compilation.asp?series=NRT

happy?

[jvandyck87]

Aug 25, 2010 1:22:04 GMT -5 Shadows in the Dark said:

I can't see this getting higher than Top 30 thanks to Take A Load Off failing, but I could be wrong (hopefully).

I don't think "Take A Load Off" failed. Considering how fast "Between The Lines" plummeted down the chart, it seems that it was the underperformer, and the follow-up was doomed to struggle. The fact that "Take A Load Off" is still bulleted on active rock indicates that it's managed to stick around a decent amount of time and outperform what it should have done based on the fact that it didn't rocket up the chart like "Between The Lines" did.

[jvandyck87]

Aug 25, 2010 19:18:53 GMT -5 (Artie Ziff) said:

No joke! When is top 20 a bad thing? It's still a better song to me than Between The Lines regardless of where it peaks.

I agree. I also think that had "Take A Load Off" been the lead single, it would have done better than "Between The Lines" did.

[weaver]

First of all....please, why are we lumping Bush with STP? Just...no. I was thinking either Cinnamon or First Kiss on Mars for the third single. I don't think it's too soon, since Take A Load Off did not do very well. Hopefully we can get a Sour Girl scenario out of Cinnamon. I could see it gaining some traction at AC/Hot AC/Triple A, which would possible gain them a few more album sales....

[pen]

Aug 25, 2010 19:30:24 GMT -5 weaver said:

First of all....please, why are we lumping Bush with STP?

Because they're both in the same genre?

[weaver]

Aug 25, 2010 19:36:51 GMT -5 pen said:

Aug 25, 2010 19:30:24 GMT -5 weaver said:

First of all....please, why are we lumping Bush with STP?

Because they're both in the same genre?

I guess, but...Bush seriously had one "good" album which is actually not "good" when I go back and listen now. Every one of the STP albums is excellent. I have always found #4 muddy, sonically, but the songs are still good. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really dislike Bush (though I did purchase their first two records way back when), so I am not a fan of comparing/lumping these two particular bands in a category.

[pen]

Aug 25, 2010 19:39:45 GMT -5 weaver said:

Aug 25, 2010 19:36:51 GMT -5 pen said:

Because they're both in the same genre?

I guess, but...Bush seriously had one "good" album which is actually not "good" when I go back and listen now. Every one of the STP albums is excellent. I have always found #4 muddy, sonically, but the songs are still good. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really dislike Bush (though I did purchase their first two records way back when), so I am not a fan of comparing/lumping these two particular bands in a category.

Oh I get it. You're stuck up. Thanks for clearing that up.

[pen]

And now that I've been a dick, to provide a more serious response, I really don't see how anyone who is just looking for good music cannot find at least one Bush song to enjoy. The lyrics are always interesting, it's better written than a lot of post-grunge you hear on the radio today, and they actually took a lot more experimental detours with their sound than most people give them credit for. At the very least, I don't see how the whole of Bush's output is any worse than any other band around at that point in time.

[jvandyck87]

^Idk if I agree with that last sentence. Or maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong. You're saying that there exists no band that put out better music in the mid '90s than Bush? I agree that they released a decent amount of good music. I especially liked all three of the singles off 'The Science Of Things'. But there are definitely bands who I feel released better albums in that period of time. Live comes to mind immediately. I'd put Stabbing Westward in the mix too, but maybe your last sentence was more genre-specific. I probably liked Collective Soul's music more overall as well. Silverchair, Filter, Smashing Pumpkins, and mid/late '90s Metallica were more up my alley too.

But I agree with your overall point of lumping Bush and Stone Temple Pilots in the group of very successful '90s grunge/post-grunge type bands. I think a big part of why Alice In Chains is having more success than the two aforementioned bands is that they they are seen as pioneers. They also just released a really fucking awesome album. Based on the tracks that I've heard from STP, that isn't really the case. I like "Afterlife" by Bush, but I don't know if any other tracks have leaked yet. And STP and Bush are not matching the hype that you'd expect given how long they've been absent, and how well AIC has done. Soundgarden isn't doing stellarly either out of the gate, but it is early, and it is an old B-side that's a bit heavy for alternative radio.

[weaver]

Aug 25, 2010 20:42:50 GMT -5 pen said:

Aug 25, 2010 19:39:45 GMT -5 weaver said:

I guess, but...Bush seriously had one "good" album which is actually not "good" when I go back and listen now. Every one of the STP albums is excellent. I have always found #4 muddy, sonically, but the songs are still good. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really dislike Bush (though I did purchase their first two records way back when), so I am not a fan of comparing/lumping these two particular bands in a category.

Oh I get it. You're stuck up. Thanks for clearing that up.

??? Not liking Bush makes me "stuck up"? Ok then.

[weaver]

Aug 25, 2010 20:45:27 GMT -5 pen said:

And now that I've been a dick, to provide a more serious response, I really don't see how anyone who is just looking for good music cannot find at least one Bush song to enjoy. The lyrics are always interesting, it's better written than a lot of post-grunge you hear on the radio today, and they actually took a lot more experimental detours with their sound than most people give them credit for. At the very least, I don't see how the whole of Bush's output is any worse than any other band around at that point in time.

Well, as I said, I did like Bush in the 90s. I played their debut album quite a bit. I was turned off by their second album...I have not played it many years, but I remember thinking they were trying to re-do Glycerine over and over. Looking back, they just sort of feel second-rate to me. A lot of people view STP that way too, I guess, but I have always been a big supporter of them. I have their new record as well as the new AIC, and I like both. However, I have played the STP album much more heavily. They aren't the only 90s band I just can't quite get into anymore- I used to LOVE LOVE LOVE Live...and now...well....maybe I just played it too much. I don't know. I do still love the Mental Jewelry album now and then, when I think of it. They too, lost me after their 3rd record. The 4th one, title escapes me, was quite disappointing. What were we talking about again? lol.

[jvandyck87]

Dude, the 4th Live album was 'The Distance To Here'. That might have been the best album to come out that year! Well Metallica - S&M and Splender - Halfway Down The Sky also came out that year, but those are probably my top 3 albums that I can think of off the top of my head from 1999.

[My Life Is A Stereo]

Aug 25, 2010 23:45:39 GMT -5 jvandyck87 said:

Dude, the 4th Live album was 'The Distance To Here'. That might have been the best album to come out that year! Well Metallica - S&M and Splender - Halfway Down The Sky also came out that year, but those are probably my top 3 albums that I can think of off the top of my head from 1999.

I still get chills when I hear the opening line of Dolphin's Cry ..."The way your bathed in light, reminds me of that night"....

I have to say though that overall I wasn't in love with TDTH as much as I had loved the first three, I remember buying Mental Jewelry for 2.99 out of a bargain bin(on cassette) when I didn't even know who they were. A week later I heard "Selling The Drama" and was royally PISSED that it wasn't on that album. I did however grow to love MJ almost as much as I would eventually love Throwing Copper, which would be in my top 10 albums of the decade.

[My Life Is A Stereo]

Oh and STP is still great to me even if I'm overwhelmed yet with the new album. I'm anxiously awaiting to hear all of the new Bush album. Sixteen Stone would be another album that still knocks on the top 10 door of favorite albums of the 90's

[pen]

Aug 25, 2010 21:47:40 GMT -5 jvandyck87 said:

^Idk if I agree with that last sentence. Or maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong. You're saying that there exists no band that put out better music in the mid '90s than Bush? I agree that they released a decent amount of good music. I especially liked all three of the singles off 'The Science Of Things'. But there are definitely bands who I feel released better albums in that period of time. Live comes to mind immediately. I'd put Stabbing Westward in the mix too, but maybe your last sentence was more genre-specific. I probably liked Collective Soul's music more overall as well. Silverchair, Filter, Smashing Pumpkins, and mid/late '90s Metallica were more up my alley too.

That isn't really what I meant. Let me put it like this. I really like Bush. Besides having some personal significance to me, I just happen to really like their music, and yes I think they're just as good as anything else at that time. That's not a dig on other music in that era if you're choosing to interpret that as such, and yes there are some albums and acts that are better, but my point is that Bush doesn't suck. I don't know, sometimes I get the feeling when I'm not as blunt as a murder instrument people get the urge to want to nitpick my words.

[pen]

Aug 25, 2010 23:03:55 GMT -5 weaver said:

I was turned off by their second album...I have not played it many years, but I remember thinking they were trying to re-do Glycerine over and over.

I can't imagine why you'd think that. I mean, yes, Razorblade was a more acoustic and stripped down sort of record, but none of the songs on it were anything like Glycerine. Most of the songs lack Glycerine's wistfulness and trade it for more uncomfortable feelings, many of them are still much heavier with distortion playing a large role in the proceedings, and even the couple of songs that come close to Glycerine in tone like Swallowed or Straight No Chaser don't feel overwhelmingly similar. To me Glycerine has always felt more wistful in reflection whereas Swallowed feels self-depreciating and Straight No Chaser more sad bastard. There's definitely a great sense of depression and animosity present on Razorblade that I don't think was as clearly present on Sixteen Stone.

[pen]

Although, ironically, my favorite album by Bush is actually Golden State, which is the album that in my opinion sounds most like Sixteen Stone. The reason I favor it more than Sixteen Stone is that personally, I just think the lyrics on State are better written. Stone's a fantastic album and I do love it but for some reason songs like "Soultions", "Head Full Of Ghosts", "Superman", "Hurricane", and "Inflatable" seem to resonate with me a lot more.

[jvandyck87]

"Speed Kills" turned me off that album, but the couple other tracks that I've heard off it were both pretty good. "Solutions" and "Headful Of Ghosts" are the two I believe, so it looks like we're in agreement there.

And I was partly just using your last sentence as an excuse to mention bands I really like from that period of time, even though I was curious as to what you meant.

[jvandyck87]

And going back and listening to some older Bush for the first time in awhile...I forgot just how absolutely gorgeous "Letting The Cables Sleep" is. A pretty big chart hit that gets very little recurrent airplay, but easily my favorite song of their career.