wittigrxn
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Post by wittigrxn on Aug 30, 2010 14:51:32 GMT -5
Surprise surprise, a bunch of people who live and die for pop music and radio underestimating the success of an R&B artist (while of course overestimating the success of a pop artist). Because if YOU don't know about them, then they're obviously irrelevant. I wonder what you people who are calling Fantasia completely irrelevant had to say about Monica's opening numbers, or Maxwell's massive success last year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 15:00:27 GMT -5
Can someone who believes that the national exposure received from the "sucide attempt" did nothing and she would have achieved these sales anyway explain further as to why?
It is well documented that exposure on the non-music variety that lands you in the national headlines exposes you to people who would not have otherwise bought the music.
Are we really saying the VH1 exposure is more powerful than a front page story on CNN? How so?
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 30, 2010 15:19:21 GMT -5
Are we really saying the VH1 exposure is more powerful than a front page story on CNN? How so? Because other artists have benefited from it without making the headlines for their personal drama.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 30, 2010 15:20:38 GMT -5
I wonder what you people who are calling Fantasia completely irrelevant had to say about Monica's opening numbers, or Maxwell's massive success last year. Exactly. Urban radio is as powerful as Pop radio. True, a crossover hit gets you more exposure, but not every artist aims at it. Not to mention the fact that the Urban audience is way less fickle than the Top 40 audience. Oh, and add Sade to the group of artists mentioned. ;)
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speeddial
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Post by speeddial on Aug 30, 2010 15:25:40 GMT -5
Can someone who believes that the national exposure received from the "sucide attempt" did nothing and she would have achieved these sales anyway explain further as to why? It is well documented that exposure on the non-music variety that lands you in the national headlines exposes you to people who would not have otherwise bought the music. Are we really saying the VH1 exposure is more powerful than a front page story on CNN? How so? Because people may read a front page story out of curiosity, but a real fan or someone with more than a passing curiosity would follow the singer's life and production of the singer's album on VH1. CNN = personal interest story aka breaking news aka FREE VH1= vested interest in the singer aka more likely to PAY for the person's music aka SALES No one's saying that Fantasia's suicide attempt did not generate news/publicity albeit bad publicity. What we're saying is that interest in her MUSIC actually has generated the majority - if not all - of her SALES.
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David
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Post by David on Aug 30, 2010 15:30:22 GMT -5
Danity Kane is proof a reality show can do wonders.
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Post by popindustrialist on Aug 30, 2010 15:56:18 GMT -5
Katy Perry has such little actual appeal that her debut week thread is being dominated by Fantasia.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Aug 30, 2010 17:23:48 GMT -5
I need to start buying cds again. I was shopping and saw Katy Perry for 7.99 and another cd I may be interested in for 8.99. Katy was also prominently displayed splashed all over the registers too. I thought cds were still being sold for like....10-12 dollars ha ha. Sales look fairly solid so this is a good week :) Hopefully Katy and Fantasia don't collapse next week with massive drops.
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area51
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Post by area51 on Aug 30, 2010 17:37:03 GMT -5
Let's see what happens in the weeks to come. If it truly is Fantasia's success in the R&B format that's lifted her album sales, that should be sustainable.
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Oprah
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Post by Oprah on Aug 30, 2010 17:59:34 GMT -5
Are we really saying the VH1 exposure is more powerful than a front page story on CNN? How so? Two million people tuned in each week to watch her record that album. Of course that's going to have a greater effect on album sales than glancing over the headlines and seeing she tried to kill herself. The latter doesn't generate any interest in her actual music. People said the same thing about Britney during the Blackout era, and I thought it was ridiculous then too. Bad press relating to one's personal life does not make people want to buy said artist's music.
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David
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Post by David on Aug 30, 2010 18:08:39 GMT -5
Let's see what happens in the weeks to come. If it truly is Fantasia's success in the R&B format that's lifted her album sales, that should be sustainable. Thats ridiculous since every artist sells differently. Who's to say they wouldn't have plummeted after first week regardless? I've seen artists have hits and promo, yet still plummet in the following weeks. I've also seen acts who are pretty much only on radio, and yet they stay consistent. So thats not really a valid argument.
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discoloser
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Post by discoloser on Aug 30, 2010 18:38:35 GMT -5
Fantasia and Katy can open strong all they want but let's see if Katy can sell more than her debut and if Fantasia can sell more than her sophmore this time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 19:56:50 GMT -5
Usually, I guess except in Fantasia's case, national headlines creates additional exposure.
There is probably no possible way that someone learned of Fantasia's new album through the suicide article on CNN rather than on VH1?
Getting national headlines is usually a powerful marketing tool when you are trying to push an album.
The way to test this is to see where the album stands two to three weeks from now.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Aug 30, 2010 20:22:23 GMT -5
Usually, I guess except in Fantasia's case, national headlines creates additional exposure. There is probably no possible way that someone learned of Fantasia's new album through the suicide article on CNN rather than on VH1? Getting national headlines is usually a powerful marketing tool when you are trying to push an album. The way to test this is to see where the album stands two to three weeks from now. All you need to do is ask Britney if that kind of press brings sales. Blackout is her lowest selling studio album and was released when her media profile was at its highest. Bad press etc. doesn't sell albums. Radio successes, good reviews, massive television promotion does. Anyway, I thought you weren't interested in any of this? And no, the test won't be to see where the album stands two to three weeks from now. I imagine it will be where 80% of albums are after three weeks. With decreased numbers each week...as the promotion dries up, her album is taken off the new release shelves etc. And then if and when another single starts to take off, you'll see her album sales grow again. It's very basic knowledge that most people that take the time on Pulse should know. I still cannot believe you're still here, hammering away, with liberal use of the "" coupled with suicide attempt, demanding explanations that you are not owed. Over and over and over and over again.
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David
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Post by David on Aug 30, 2010 20:42:08 GMT -5
2m, I don't think we're saying her album sales would be the same had the suicide attempt not happened. I think its common sense that even if it is bad press that it can generate some sales. However, if the suicide attempt never happened, I doubt her sales would have been that much worse.
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Minor Scratch
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Post by Minor Scratch on Aug 30, 2010 20:42:23 GMT -5
But bad press did make people notice Blackout and 'Gimme More' way more than they would have without it. Record sales had receded drastically since the early 00s and it wasn't going to sell as much as her earlier records anyway. Blackout may have been her worst selling album, but it made Britney a prolific artist again. She went on to have more hit singles and an even better selling album in 'Circus'.
In the same vein as Britney, Fantasia would probably not sold as much this week if it weren't for her whole suicide fiasco.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 30, 2010 21:24:24 GMT -5
ONE year ago: -- 1 WHITNEY HOUSTON ARISTA/RMG 301,396 -- I LOOK TO YOU 2 2 MILEY CYRUS HOLLYWOOD 161,604 +154% TIME OF OUR LIVES -- 3 TREY SONGZ ATLANTIC 135,896 -- READY 4 4 MICHAEL JACKSON EPIC 64,027 +6% NUMBER ONES 1 5 COLBIE CAILLAT UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 46,071 -58% BREAKTHROUGH 5 6 KINGS OF LEON RCA/RMG 43,942 -17% ONLY BY THE NIGHT -- 7 CHEVELLE EPIC 42,913 -- SCI-FI CRIMES -- 8 PITBULL J RECORDS/RMG 41,173 -- REBELUTION 20 9 MICHAEL JACKSON EPIC 37,786 +59% THRILLER 10 10 TAYLOR SWIFT BIG MACHINE 35,007 +2% FEARLESS I thought that Colbie Callait hit #1 this week one year ago... Yup. Sowwy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 21:25:43 GMT -5
2m, I don't think we're saying her album sales would be the same had the suicide attempt not happened. I think its common sense that even if it is bad press that it can generate some sales. However, if the suicide attempt never happened, I doubt her sales would have been that much worse. This is a death or near-death scenario though from someone on American Idol, not some crazy celebrity who shaved her head. I had thought until this thread that it was obvious that this would translate into substantially higher album sales. Even the reports earlier in this thread suggest the album is doing well above expectations. I am suggesting the near-death scenario likely had something to do with that, more so than VH1. ''American Idol' tries to kill herself' should generate a lot more news and exposure than 'VH1 reality star is releasing an album' Just a thought
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David
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Post by David on Aug 30, 2010 21:29:32 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, and yes, it makes sense. I guess we won't really know. I mean, come on, Danity Kane had shit for promo or airplay when their albums were released, yet look how big they opened. I'm just saying, a reality show can do wonders for album sales. Even Monica saw good numbers.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Aug 30, 2010 21:29:55 GMT -5
All you need to do is ask Britney if that kind of press brings sales. Blackout is her lowest selling studio album and was released when her media profile was at its highest. Bad press etc. doesn't sell albums. Radio successes, good reviews, massive television promotion does. Anyway, I thought you weren't interested in any of this? And no, the test won't be to see where the album stands two to three weeks from now. I imagine it will be where 80% of albums are after three weeks. With decreased numbers each week...as the promotion dries up, her album is taken off the new release shelves etc. And then if and when another single starts to take off, you'll see her album sales grow again. It's very basic knowledge that most people that take the time on Pulse should know. I still cannot believe you're still here, hammering away, with liberal use of the "" coupled with suicide attempt, demanding explanations that you are not owed. Over and over and over and over again. Who is being demanding? I thought, until this thread it was common knowledge that national exposure for things related to death translates into album sales, apparently I am wrong. I am being told here that national exposure for trying to kill herself is irrelevant. The VH1 show and R&B hit are more powerful marketing tools than being on every news source in the country The headline "Former American Idol winner tries to kill herself" does absolutely nothing for album sales? I would have thought that someone who saw that article and did not watch VH1 would have purchased the album. I am willing to bet more of the public knows she was on American Idol than knows that she has a reality show on VH1. But I am probably wrong. But you're getting confused...I think almost everybody who has disagreed with you fundamentally in this thread as conceeded that this kind of press helps to some degree. That the press helped her shift more albums. People actually agree with you. You're backtracking and suggesting all you were here for was to get people to agree with you about the suicide attempt helping her album sales. When in fact you were calling in to question the entire authenticity of her suicide attempt, suggesting she might not have even done it, and if she did then it was for publicity in order to get a big opening week. You can get away with pretending your initial point was y when it was in fact x in a spoken word conversation, but what you've written is there for everybody here to still see. And, you're downplaying the Britney situation. She was being wheeled off on a gurney by an ambulance, there was a situation where people didn't know if her children were safe. This wasn't a trip to the barber. It was year-long high profile ordeal that involved a star far bigger and more cherished than Fantasia, having her mental health speculated on, the safety of her and her children questioned, and most of her rights being taken away. You've been sidetracked arguing with people who don't even really disagree with you. The contention here seems to be "how much" it helped her opening sales, to which there is no definitive answer. However, people have posited compelling enough reasoning to suggest your conspiracy theories and crediting the bulk of Fantasia's opening week sales to her 'fake suicide attempt' is inaccurate. Nobody has said "she would have sold more on opening week without the suicide attempt", nor are we saying "National media attention doesn't actually provide any media attention". We're not. And now having called into question Fantasia's morality, sanity and integrity (all the while prompting people to sweep aside massive urban success as though it was less than nothing) you're splitting hairs over the percentages of the causes for Fantasia's successful opening week. It's not "just a thought". It's a couple of thoughts insensitively and repeatedly reworded. Again and again and again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 21:31:31 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, and yes, it makes sense. I guess we won't really know. I mean, come on, Danity Kane had s**t for promo or airplay when their albums were released, yet look how big they opened. I'm just saying, a reality show can do wonders for album sales. Even Monica saw good numbers. OK - a reality show can help but....I think a better comparison here is not Monica or Danity Kane or Britney but...Michael Jackson. If Michael Jackson had lived from the drugs that he took (HYPOTHETICAL STORY - since we all know it didn't happen this way) and the story that broke was 'Michael Jackson nearly died' rather than 'Michael Jackson died' do you think sales of his catalog would have still increased???
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Juanca
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Post by Juanca on Aug 30, 2010 21:32:33 GMT -5
anyway u cut it, she was as washed up as Ruben Studdord (spelling?)- far as musical relevancy towards the public. She has a good voice and was good for that season of AI (like Ruben), but did NOT maintain any musical legacy, hype, or real public interest. NO DOUBT the bulk of her 1st week album sales are only because of the suicide attempt. People easily forget about Fantasia's success in the R&B market with the 2nd single of her last album though: - "When I See U" became her first single to top the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart, remaining at the number one spot for EIGHT consecutive weeks. - The song is one of only 14 songs to ever spend over a year on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop chart, and is the eighth longest running song in the chart's history (57 weeks) - In December 2009 Billboard named it the 8th biggest hit of the decade on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart Those are quite the achievements I would say....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 22:05:20 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, and yes, it makes sense. I guess we won't really know. I mean, come on, Danity Kane had s**t for promo or airplay when their albums were released, yet look how big they opened. I'm just saying, a reality show can do wonders for album sales. Even Monica saw good numbers. Exactly. Idk what is so hard to get about reality shows being a BIG help for artists...
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jumpb4uthink
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Post by jumpb4uthink on Aug 31, 2010 7:13:18 GMT -5
Expected more from Katy but good for her anyway
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speeddial
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Post by speeddial on Aug 31, 2010 7:19:02 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, and yes, it makes sense. I guess we won't really know. I mean, come on, Danity Kane had s**t for promo or airplay when their albums were released, yet look how big they opened. I'm just saying, a reality show can do wonders for album sales. Even Monica saw good numbers. OK - a reality show can help but....I think a better comparison here is not Monica or Danity Kane or Britney but...Michael Jackson. If Michael Jackson had lived from the drugs that he took (HYPOTHETICAL STORY - since we all know it didn't happen this way) and the story that broke was 'Michael Jackson nearly died' rather than 'Michael Jackson died' do you think sales of his catalog would have still increased??? Are you seriously comparing Fantasia to Michael Jackson? THE Michael Jackson who was a music legend for decades before his death? C'mon. If that's the best example that you can use, then seriously...
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Aug 31, 2010 9:04:48 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, and yes, it makes sense. I guess we won't really know. I mean, come on, Danity Kane had s**t for promo or airplay when their albums were released, yet look how big they opened. I'm just saying, a reality show can do wonders for album sales. Even Monica saw good numbers. OK - a reality show can help but....I think a better comparison here is not Monica or Danity Kane or Britney but...Michael Jackson. If Michael Jackson had lived from the drugs that he took (HYPOTHETICAL STORY - since we all know it didn't happen this way) and the story that broke was 'Michael Jackson nearly died' rather than 'Michael Jackson died' do you think sales of his catalog would have still increased??? Terrible comparison. I dont think she should be compared to Britney either. Danity Kane and Monica are good comparisons.
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Aug 31, 2010 9:24:53 GMT -5
2m is probably right, but this argument is pretty silly, as we have no way to know what the other situation would have been had Fantasia not been in the press for her personal troubles.
In general people eat it up when a celebrity has a major tragedy and then recovers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2010 9:34:24 GMT -5
OK - a reality show can help but....I think a better comparison here is not Monica or Danity Kane or Britney but...Michael Jackson. If Michael Jackson had lived from the drugs that he took (HYPOTHETICAL STORY - since we all know it didn't happen this way) and the story that broke was 'Michael Jackson nearly died' rather than 'Michael Jackson died' do you think sales of his catalog would have still increased??? Are you seriously comparing Fantasia to Michael Jackson? THE Michael Jackson who was a music legend for decades before his death? C'mon. If that's the best example that you can use, then seriously... Michael Jackson had not put out music in a decade and was known more for personal troubles than for music priro to his death. The comparison is not the music itself. The comparison is this: Both are music celebrities Both took drugs Instead of a reality show on VH1, Michael Jackson was preparing a concert tour - so both were in the public eye for something. However obviously 1 died, 1 didn't What if they both lived? but instead of weeks on end news of his death we had headlines that he was hospitalized and nearly died for a drug overdoese? Would Michael Jackon's sales have also increased? or would it have made no difference?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2010 10:01:25 GMT -5
2m is probably right, but this argument is pretty silly, as we have no way to know what the other situation would have been had Fantasia not been in the press for her personal troubles. In general people eat it up when a celebrity has a major tragedy and then recovers. Michael Jackson's entire press time prior to 2009 (since his last album was years prior) was about his personal troubles
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speeddial
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Post by speeddial on Aug 31, 2010 10:15:08 GMT -5
Are you seriously comparing Fantasia to Michael Jackson? THE Michael Jackson who was a music legend for decades before his death? C'mon. If that's the best example that you can use, then seriously... Michael Jackson had not put out music in a decade and was known more for personal troubles than for music priro to his death. The comparison is not the music itself. The comparison is this: Both are music celebrities Both took drugs Instead of a reality show on VH1, Michael Jackson was preparing a concert tour - so both were in the public eye for something. However obviously 1 died, 1 didn't What if they both lived? but instead of weeks on end news of his death we had headlines that he was hospitalized and nearly died for a drug overdoese? Would Michael Jackon's sales have also increased? or would it have made no difference? Fantasia is nowhere near as famous as Michael Jackson is. Nowhere. Michael is an ICON, not just a music celebrity. C'mon. Plus, the public IMMEDIATELY knew that Fantasia was okay. The first media coverage about her suicide attempt emphatically stated that it was NOT life-threatening. No one thought that Fantasia was at death's door.
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