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Post by marv1978 on Nov 24, 2010 9:32:57 GMT -5
The times when they just announced the release date and the album sold automatically no matter how sh*tty it was are long gone, aren't they? Say what you want about Cowell, but he understands that to keep the show somewhat relevant and in public eye, it needs to keep producing successful contestants. By successful i mean that they have songs people recognize. So i agree there's hope for Lee, but he needs more airplay. Yes agree! totally! and for the above numbers..who cares lol, wheres Rubin,Katherine,Fantasia,Clay,Taylor,Bo & Elliot at now??? hmm, i'd rather take the long road and build then be a overnight success that fizzles out, idol got him the contract, now the journey begins. he's not an american idol pop star he's a singer/songwriter, i think people were getting tired of the show and it's contestants and wanted something different, but unfortunatly the show went stale first.
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Post by satanicfloret on Nov 24, 2010 11:06:36 GMT -5
Yes agree! totally! and for the above numbers..who cares lol, wheres Rubin,Katherine,Fantasia,Clay,Taylor,Bo & Elliot at now??? Well to be blunt for the most part they are HAS BEEN's as opposed to a NEVER WAS like Lee is right now. Idol is the biggest launching platform for unknown artists in the US. Are you saying Lee just wasted that opportunity? and that that is OK? And yeah Lee is so very different from the last 2 white guys with guitars that won the show - I'm sure that the public "wanting something different" was exactly the reason he won. Lee won, imo, because he's a good karaoke singer and he's not unattractive and frankly most of the rest of the contestants were BLEH. Crystal aside, I found Season 9's top 12 a total snoozefest. Lee included. And Crystal doesn't really do much for me either - just that I liked her voice. Her style of music isn't my thing at all. There's just nothing about him that stands out as original to me. He's okay. But okay isn't gonna get you anywhere when there is amazing, interesting, soul-stirring, emotive or blood-pumping music available elsewhere. Except in elevator music maybe... which will probably be Lee's next job after he gets dropped from RCA.
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Post by marv1978 on Nov 24, 2010 11:25:00 GMT -5
Yes agree! totally! and for the above numbers..who cares lol, wheres Rubin,Katherine,Fantasia,Clay,Taylor,Bo & Elliot at now??? Well to be blunt for the most part they are HAS BEEN's as opposed to a NEVER WAS like Lee is right now. Idol is the biggest launching platform for unknown artists in the US. Are you saying Lee just wasted that opportunity? and that that is OK? And yeah Lee is so very different from the last 2 white guys with guitars that won the show - I'm sure that the public "wanting something different" was exactly the reason he won. Lee won, imo, because he's a good karaoke singer and he's not unattractive and frankly most of the rest of the contestants were BLEH. Crystal aside, I found Season 9's top 12 a total snoozefest. Lee included. And Crystal doesn't really do much for me either - just that I liked her voice. Her style of music isn't my thing at all. There's just nothing about him that stands out as original to me. He's okay. But okay isn't gonna get you anywhere when there is amazing, interesting, soul-stirring, emotive or blood-pumping music available elsewhere. Except in elevator music maybe... which will probably be Lee's next job after he gets dropped from RCA. He used it to get a contract with a major label, duh! why else. And we'll see if he turns out to be a never was lol. I don't recall any of the names i stated as ever being Has Been's lol, they are never was's too lol. I've never seen Ruben have a hit, Fantasia at Mainstream or Hot AC have a big hit, Elliot is a one hit wonder lol as is BO & clay, Katherine is a never was as is Taylor hicks, even though i really like Taylor Hicks :( And who gives a da_n if he's good looking, i as a man really don't care lol,i'm not vein either lmao! And as for your opinions, they are not facts but opinions like mine and opinionms are like a__holes, we all got one lol. Happy Thanksgiving! ;)
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Post by Feelin'.$$$hady on Nov 24, 2010 11:52:41 GMT -5
He needs 2 or 3 HAC hits and they're gonna keep him IMO. I quite like SS, i think it can do at least moderately well. There's no point in comparing him to some R&B album sales from 2004. The show was at a completely different place back then, the market was different, album sales were something else...i just makes no sense to me. ... it's the producers fault more than anybody else's that noone cares about idol anymore.
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Post by satanicfloret on Nov 24, 2010 12:32:15 GMT -5
He used it to get a contract with a major label, duh! why else. And we'll see if he turns out to be a never was lol. I don't recall any of the names i stated as ever being Has Been's lol, they are never was's too lol. I've never seen Ruben have a hit, Fantasia at Mainstream or Hot AC have a big hit, Elliot is a one hit wonder lol as is BO & clay, Katherine is a never was as is Taylor hicks, even though i really like Taylor Hicks :( And who gives a da_n if he's good looking, i as a man really don't care lol,i'm not vein either lmao! And as for your opinions, they are not facts but opinions like mine and opinionms are like a__holes, we all got one lol. Happy Thanksgiving! ;) Did I say anything about facts? No. I said "imo" which, since you clearly need it explained, stands for "in my opinion". Also - All of those artists sold really well coming off of Idol - into the millions in most cases, and some of them still have their major label deals even if they aren't selling as well any more. The point is - they all made the most of their time when coming off Idol and translated that into success on their debuts and in some cases for a good while afterwards. I'm just astounded by the logic you are bringing to this. It's basically "it's ok for Lee to have bad sales because he's doing this the slow way". THIS MAKES NO SENSE. You have to catch the ball when you ask for it. Lee has been thrown a once in a lifetime pass and you are saying it's ok if he fumbles because there will be other opportunities later once he's learned how to catch. I think it's really unlikely that he'll get the chance to try again given how this is turning out. People with better success commercially have been dropped from their deals, and without major label support it's much harder to get on radio/TV/etc to promote what you are doing. He's already had his post-idol honeymoon period and his album launch blitz of publicity. Now that the album is out he's going to have a much tougher job getting booked for shows because they know he's not bringing them eyeballs. It's a harsh business reality but it's the truth. I don't celebrate Thanksgiving but I hope yours is lovely. :)
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Nov 24, 2010 12:53:11 GMT -5
IMO if he makes it big on Hot AC he'll have no problem - but he's gotta make it BIG on HAC (if this track peaks in the 20s or even teens on HAC I think he's in trouble, unless he has a huge follow-up hit)
Personally, I think he could've absolutely nailed a rock ballad if he'd had someone write it for him - he won the biggest singing contest in the world, and this song doesn't even show off his voice
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Post by marv1978 on Nov 24, 2010 13:15:48 GMT -5
He used it to get a contract with a major label, duh! why else. And we'll see if he turns out to be a never was lol. I don't recall any of the names i stated as ever being Has Been's lol, they are never was's too lol. I've never seen Ruben have a hit, Fantasia at Mainstream or Hot AC have a big hit, Elliot is a one hit wonder lol as is BO & clay, Katherine is a never was as is Taylor hicks, even though i really like Taylor Hicks :( And who gives a da_n if he's good looking, i as a man really don't care lol,i'm not vein either lmao! And as for your opinions, they are not facts but opinions like mine and opinionms are like a__holes, we all got one lol. Happy Thanksgiving! ;) Did I say anything about facts? No. I said "imo" which, since you clearly need it explained, stands for "in my opinion". Also - All of those artists sold really well coming off of Idol - into the millions in most cases, and some of them still have their major label deals even if they aren't selling as well any more. The point is - they all made the most of their time when coming off Idol and translated that into success on their debuts and in some cases for a good while afterwards. I'm just astounded by the logic you are bringing to this. It's basically "it's ok for Lee to have bad sales because he's doing this the slow way". THIS MAKES NO SENSE. You have to catch the ball when you ask for it. Lee has been thrown a once in a lifetime pass and you are saying it's ok if he fumbles because there will be other opportunities later once he's learned how to catch. I think it's really unlikely that he'll get the chance to try again given how this is turning out. People with better success commercially have been dropped from their deals, and without major label support it's much harder to get on radio/TV/etc to promote what you are doing. He's already had his post-idol honeymoon period and his album launch blitz of publicity. Now that the album is out he's going to have a much tougher job getting booked for shows because they know he's not bringing them eyeballs. It's a harsh business reality but it's the truth. I don't celebrate Thanksgiving but I hope yours is lovely. :) we'll see what happens for Lee ;) Call up somebody in promotions at his label and ask them if they are worried right now lol... ok i quit. it's just when i talk to industry people and pd's i get totaly different feedback that's all. sorry to offend you with the imo thing! i celebrate thanksgiving for all the things i have to say thanks for, nothing historical or religious really, just appreciation for what i got! :)
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Post by marv1978 on Nov 24, 2010 13:16:45 GMT -5
IMO if he makes it big on Hot AC he'll have no problem - but he's gotta make it BIG on HAC (if this track peaks in the 20s or even teens on HAC I think he's in trouble, unless he has a huge follow-up hit) Personally, I think he could've absolutely nailed a rock ballad if he'd had someone write it for him - he won the biggest singing contest in the world, and this song doesn't even show off his voice true, good point!
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atgs
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Post by atgs on Nov 24, 2010 14:37:40 GMT -5
Well, if you wanna believe there's a long road for him to build. I mean, right now what do we have to tell us that he's going up but slowly? That's easy to say and a sort of escape argument, but there's no basis for that. There's nothing positive on his side. Even the HAC play is totally meh. If he fails right after AI and being signed to a major label, what are the chances he'll then find something better and do better? I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying one doesn't justify this flopeness by saying that he'll have a long road but he'll get there. God knows why and how, but whatever. Oh, and I think Lee can only dream of doing half as good as Fantasia. but ok.
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Post by marv1978 on Nov 24, 2010 15:00:31 GMT -5
Well, if you wanna believe there's a long road for him to build. I mean, right now what do we have to tell us that he's going up but slowly? That's easy to say and a sort of escape argument, but there's no basis for that. There's nothing positive on his side. Even the HAC play is totally meh. If he fails right after AI and being signed to a major label, what are the chances he'll then find something better and do better? I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying one doesn't justify this flopeness by saying that he'll have a long road but he'll get there. God knows why and how, but whatever. Oh, and I think Lee can only dream of doing half as good as Fantasia. but ok. i guess we'll haft to wait & see then won't we I'm done debating about it for now, and i can debate all day lol. i just wanted to get my point across so when the time is right, no one will think i'm jumping on his band wagon! I've never personally heard Fantasia on the radio ever, but i listen to hot ac and our chr leans hot ac and i program hot ac, so that doesn't mean much. but like i said until about Mid February i'm silent on this subject
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alchemist
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Post by alchemist on Nov 24, 2010 16:28:16 GMT -5
Oh for godsakes. Clay, Ruben and Fantasia are multi-platinum artists. Taylor, Bo, Katherine and Elliott are not so they don't even belong in the same sentence with the first 3.
Clay has sold over 7 million of 5 albums. Five! The latest was released 6 months ago. He toured this summer and will tour again in Feb/March. He has a TV Special that is currently playing in various markets all over the country and will continue to repeat until the new year. He earns multiple millions even on years he is not actively promoting a CD.
Ruben has sold 2.5 million of his 4 CDs. His last was released in May 2009. He has been a guest touring with David Foster and on other tours including with Clay last summer.
Fantasia has sold 2.6 million of her 3 CDs. Her latest album was released 3 months ago and is still selling. She also has a reality show on VH1.
All 3 of them are in it over the long haul and none of these 3 are by any means has-beens.
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Nov 24, 2010 17:28:18 GMT -5
^agreed. especially fantasia. they complain they dont hear her on hot ac or chr. well shes an r/b / urban artist, what do u expect. fantasia doesnt try for pop smashes. and she does amazing on urban. its just not where huge album sales go. carrie only does really well on one format (sometimes 2) for the most part. her formats drive album sales. fantasias album earlier this year debuted at 2. lee at 17 or something, and they are saying fantasia is forgotten now.
Clay's career is slowing down, but his lastt Cd opened with more than Lees. or its very close.
Rubens career is about dead, but im sure his overall success will be much greater than lee's.
Kat had a gold single, and an album that will most likley sell better than Lee's (i beleive her first sold around 400k, Lee most likley wont hit 300k)
Taylor is actually one i accept. He basically never happened. no big singles, he hasnt charted on the hot 100 minus his idol related songs. his first album did well, but at that point on first idol albums did well, and he was the least selling by about a milllion copies.
Elliot is a one hit wonder, with a gold album; something lee wont get. Same with bo but his hit was smaller.
Lee is in a catagory below these people. Lee is more with allison, diana, kimberley; people around there.
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Nov 24, 2010 17:33:40 GMT -5
Lee will prbly sell more than allison. hes guna have more holiday weeks than her and at least a semi hit. Idol needs a girl winner next year, no exceptions. And have them work on a single when they make top 4 so it can be released shortly after the show. then a 2nd single right before the album. working two singles before an album is common now, ex: rihanna, katy perry
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jaytee
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Post by jaytee on Nov 24, 2010 17:40:30 GMT -5
Lee will prbly sell more than allison. hes guna have more holiday weeks than her and at least a semi hit. Idol needs a girl winner next year, no exceptions. And have them work on a single when they make top 4 so it can be released shortly after the show. then a 2nd single right before the album. working two singles before an album is common now, ex: rihanna, katy perry What they really should do is give them coronation songs that don't completely suck. I have no idea why they don't actually put effort into making those songs commercial/current - they sell incredibly well even when they're terrible. If the song was actually good, it'd get performed two nights in a row on AI to a huge audience, sell thousands and thousands of copies in its first week and then could continue on the radio.
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Nov 24, 2010 18:08:10 GMT -5
like a moment like this & time of my life. very radio friendly. i hope next year maybe (if the stick to the same corny winner songs) the winner will do a cover of together we are one. itd do better than beautiful day cover and no boundaries.
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Post by sugarandspice on Nov 24, 2010 20:59:02 GMT -5
Nah. Lee opened with 38k. Clay's latest opened with 22k.
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alchemist
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Post by alchemist on Nov 24, 2010 21:59:11 GMT -5
Lee opened with 38k. Clay's latest opened with 22k. Why not compare Clay's debut with Lee's debut or Clay's 5th with Lee's 5th, if Lee ever gets a 5th. Clay was on 8 years ago and didn't even win. American Idol season 2 is a distant memory. Lee's 5 solid months of promotion was this year and Lee was so popular he won. Lee has had a lot of promotion and a radio single. Its amazing that Clay sold 24k (Soundscan) his first week without radio or hardly any promotion. How can people buy it if they don't know it exists and don't hear anything on the radio?
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Post by sugarandspice on Nov 24, 2010 22:19:29 GMT -5
You call an hour long concert special aimed squarely at his demographic "no promotion?" lol ok.
Clay was never going to get radio play with his type of music.
Lee's problem wasn't a lack of promotion (he got the same as everyone else) it's just that he is so bland, he makes saltines look amazing. He's boring and blends into the background. Nothing about Lee or his music makes people want to take a look at him.
Personally I think Sony is glad that their association with Idol is over. No more duds like Lee, Diana, etc...
I read an article saying that only half of all Idols signed to Sony are still on there today, and that Sony didn't like the Idol deal because they were "not cheap, and weren't always worth the investment." They singled out Lee in particular.
Yikes.
I don't think Lee will be signed to RCA much longer. Maybe till the new year or the end of S10. It'd be horrible to have the returning winner come back for the S10 finale having already been dropped from their record contract they won the previous year.
Lee seems like a nice guy, but I don't think pop music is his calling. I see him hitting the road with a band, playing the club circuit, but not this.
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alchemist
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Post by alchemist on Nov 24, 2010 22:29:10 GMT -5
You call an hour long concert special aimed squarely at his demographic "no promotion?" lol ok. Clay was never going to get radio play with his type of music. Clay's Special aired one time on WTTW Chicago 12 days after his CD release on June 1st. The rest of the PBS stations began to air it at the end of July, 2 months after his release and late enough to have been no help with keeping stores stocked up. It was too late to help with his first week sales and all of the PBS stations used his CD as thank you gifts for pledges, but those sales don't count for soundscan. They do count in the eyes of his record label, the powers that be at PBS and for RIAA . Those entities are very happy with Clay's success. Clay's music has gotten great reception at radio when it is label $upported. He has recorded and released 5 different genres. I'd like to know what you mean when you say Clay's music. Do you mean his Christmas songs that get more radio spins than any other Idol every year or do you mean some of his cover songs or about half of his recorded songs that are originals of every genre but rap?
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Post by sugarandspice on Nov 25, 2010 0:11:33 GMT -5
I was specifically referring to his album Tried and True. None of that music would be played on the radio here, and as far as I know, it hasn't. If it has, it's just random stations here and there who played it for sh*ts and giggles, but I haven't seen any song from that album (or his last 3 albums) make any kind of chart run.
Can we get back to Lee now? This is the Sweet Serendipity thread for Lee, not the Clay thread.
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alchemist
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Post by alchemist on Nov 25, 2010 1:10:32 GMT -5
I was specifically referring to his album Tried and True. None of that music would be played on the radio here, and as far as I know, it hasn't. That is a compliment to the quality of Clay's album, none of those songs would fit with the shit that is played on Pop radio. I haven't seen any song from that album (or his last 3 albums) make any kind of chart run. That is because none of his songs were released to radio. Can we get back to Lee now? This is the Sweet Serendipity thread for Lee, not the Clay thread. If you can control yourself and stick to Lee, it would help.
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feline
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Post by feline on Nov 25, 2010 1:11:49 GMT -5
The current X Factor winner's debut numbers were well below the numbers for both the 2008 winner and the runnerup, Alexandra Burke and JLS. Joe McElderry sold almost half of what Alexandra sold.
From what I've read, Simon didn't want to support season 4 winner Leon Jackson, and he was dropped by his Sony label after just one album. Season one winner, Steve Brookstein lasted just eight months with Sony and Simon's label. So in six seasons, Simon's record with the X Factor isn't that great.
Career wise, Fantasia is doing fine. Her current album has sold over 300,000 and is still selling well, and the second one went Gold.
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Post by sugarandspice on Nov 25, 2010 1:22:29 GMT -5
You were the one that started everything by going on and on and on for several posts about how amazingly wonderful Clay's 22,000 copies sold debut was.
Now back to Lee.
I predict he will be dropped by May, if not sooner. Maybe January if RCA is feeling pretty cold-hearted, but he's not bringing them anything as far as sales go, and he doesn't have the potential to be a huge star, nor does he have any critical acclaim, so there's no reason to keep him.
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brb
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Post by brb on Nov 25, 2010 3:01:13 GMT -5
I predict he will be dropped by May, if not sooner. Maybe January if RCA is feeling pretty cold-hearted, but he's not bringing them anything as far as sales go, and he doesn't have the potential to be a huge star, nor does he have any critical acclaim, so there's no reason to keep him. I agree with that, and as for SS, I think it could reach the top 20 in HAC but I doubt it'd sell enough to enter the Billboard top 100 at that point too.. and at the end of the day, top 20 doesn't matter if they can't gain enough money to return their investment and make profit on this single. JMO.
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atgs
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Post by atgs on Nov 25, 2010 8:46:31 GMT -5
I think they might wait till there's a new winner to drop him. They'll probably let him go on tour first (without actually helping much) and then say goodbye. Even when Lee was signed people were making comments about the PR not being enthusiastic. You could tell they signed him because they had to.
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Post by Feelin'.$$$hady on Nov 25, 2010 11:18:42 GMT -5
The current X Factor winner's debut numbers were well below the numbers for both the 2008 winner and the runnerup, Alexandra Burke and JLS. Joe McElderry sold almost half of what Alexandra sold. Since october 2009 (in past 14 months!) ex-xfactor contestants produced 3!!!! No.1 debut albums (2 of them are multiplatinum) Also in that time period they had 7! No.1 singles. Last time idol contestant had No.1 single on BB100 was Kelly (who is from 2002 idol version)almost 2 years ago. In past year the only person having top 10 hit was Adam L. with WWFM. btw. i'm aware that it's harder to reach No.1 in the US, but still. I'm not saying every x factor contestant turns out to be a star , but Simon and his label are doing heck of a job in spewing radio hits and keeping them relevant. New idols coming from the show after 2006 are fighting for survivor and to even get few spins on radio - when someone reaches top 10 on BB100 it's almost a national holiday. Sorry if something's not accurate, it's from top of my head. The point is the producers killed idol by being arrogant and getting lazy and content. They stopped paying attention to how the music market is changing and now the train has passed.
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Nov 25, 2010 11:27:17 GMT -5
brining instruments to the show, was the downfall in my opinion. contestants hide behind them. carrie underwood just missed top 10 with cowboy casanova battlefield got there. i think kelly is the only idol with a chance to ever another number one, although with crossover i think carrie could do it. daughtry without a ballad, thatd be tough though, any it needs to be after the dance scene dies down.
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alchemist
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Post by alchemist on Nov 25, 2010 23:37:28 GMT -5
You were the one that started everything by going on and on and on for several posts about how amazingly wonderful Clay's 22,000 copies sold debut was. Stop lying. It was 24k soundscan and you are the one that started it and won't stop. Shut up about Clay already!
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circadian
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Post by circadian on Nov 26, 2010 0:20:37 GMT -5
You were the one that started everything by going on and on and on for several posts about how amazingly wonderful Clay's 22,000 copies sold debut was. Stop lying. It was 24k soundscan and you are the one that started it and won't stop. Shut up about Clay already! STOP TALKING ABOUT CLAY FOR GOD'S f**kING SAKE! Even if he said that Clay had sold 24k, you would still have come to the thread just to post that it was a lie, and that in reality, he sold 24,00 1 copies... We get it, really, you think he's the biggest s**t ever, THAT'S OK, we respect that... but stop shoving him in out faces, go brag about his multiple accomplishments in his thread, go buy a wax figure of him and put it in your bedroom, or something else that keep posting in a thread that has NOTHING to do with him, JESUS... That said: It's sad that Lee's gonna get dropped sooner than later (probably sooner...), the album is actually good... there are a few standout songs, but oh, well... Hopefully he'll find his niche in HAC and have a couple of midsized hits down the road
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alchemist
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Post by alchemist on Nov 26, 2010 0:38:45 GMT -5
Dude, you got anger issues! Why is it that the Kelly Clarkson fans are the most aggressive on this board? You'd think they never learned how to get along and play nice with others.
Why do they think they can inject Kelly into every conversation and that's OK but then have a hairy fit if Clay is mentioned in a positive way? They don't complain when they use him to bash on, but boy, don't you dare say anything good about him or you'll get run off.
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