Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 10:06:17 GMT -5
Exactly. Huge number ones on R&B radio, three million albums sold, Grammy nominations, number one tv movies, number one books, $50 million worth of tickets sales generated on Broadway. People writing of R&B artists cause they don't listen to or involve themselves with R&B is kind of irritating. You're right, in her own right she's a superstar. Compare her success to Kelly or Carrie, however, and Fantasia's career isn't much. I love Fantasia, but it's highly arguable that she can be considered one of the show's top superstars. In my opinion, Fantasia has always been underrated partly because of her associated genre, that doesn't change the fact that she isn't as big as Kelly or Carrie though. Not one person said she is as big as Kelly or Carrie but to put her in the same league as Ruben and especially Taylor Hicks is foolish and completely misinformed. Just because someone chooses to ignore urban music doesnt mean they can deny someones success in that market. Its a BIG market
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Hook
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Post by Hook on Dec 3, 2010 14:18:29 GMT -5
The purpose of Idol was not to 'launch superstars'. It was to make money. The making stars thing was a nice side effect. This. Fox and the producers of Idol honestly couldn't care less whether they launch someone's career. Sure, 19 will make money off of any that somehow do end up doing well. But the bulk of the show's profit comes from the TV ratings. So as long as it's still one of the top shows on TV, or at the very least one of the top shows on Fox, it won't be going anywhere. I know people think the ratings will crumble this season, but I'm not so sure. They'll go down, just like they have for the past few seasons, but personally I think it'll still be one of the highest rated on TV.
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MSradio
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Post by MSradio on Dec 3, 2010 20:23:40 GMT -5
You're right, in her own right she's a superstar. Compare her success to Kelly or Carrie, however, and Fantasia's career isn't much. I love Fantasia, but it's highly arguable that she can be considered one of the show's top superstars. In my opinion, Fantasia has always been underrated partly because of her associated genre, that doesn't change the fact that she isn't as big as Kelly or Carrie though. Not one person said she is as big as Kelly or Carrie but to put her in the same league as Ruben and especially Taylor Hicks is foolish and completely misinformed. Just because someone chooses to ignore urban music doesnt mean they can deny someones success in that market. Its a BIG market Jordin's pretty successful in her own right has well. 5 top 20 singles, platinum selling singles, 2 top 10 albums... broadway etc.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on Dec 3, 2010 22:23:13 GMT -5
If we are ranking the success of the Idol winners, I would say it goes....
1. Kelly/Carrie (I would say they're pretty much equal in terms of overall impact but Carrie would have the edge if we're just talking about the past few years)
2. Fantasia (other than Kelly & Carrie, she's been the most consistent, big name in Urban) 3. Jordin (very successful first era, disappointing second era. decent amount of hits under her belt - i'd say she would be considered a successful winner especially since she wasn't as popular of an Idol contestant as others were) 4. David C (good album sales, but didn't really make much of a name for himself - he's also been MIA for the past year and a half which doesn't help)
5. Ruben (didn't really make much of an impact but he does have a double platinum and gold album under his belt) 6. Kris (he had a big hit but his album sales were poor)
7. Taylor (basically did nothing, although his album went gold) 8. Lee (perhaps a little too soon to tell but if his current stance is any indication, this is the spot for him)
You don't have to be a superstar to be a successful Idol alum. You can argue that Kelly and Carrie (and Daughtry) are the only huge names to come out of Idol, but they aren't the *only* successful ones.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Dec 4, 2010 10:15:19 GMT -5
You can argue that Kelly and Carrie (and Daughtry) are the only huge names to come out of Idol Actually think that's the biggest problem right now for A. I. - for the past four seasons, none of the contestants have become huge stars, so I think that takes a lot of the importance out of the show If David Cook were scoring huge #1 hits right now, I think the show would have a whole different level of respect/attention - I guess Adam Lambert could still make it huge (hit-wise), but IMO it hasn't really happened yet
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 12:27:43 GMT -5
Past success of Idols isn't relevant
Other than Carrie Underwood, none are really stars today
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Dec 4, 2010 12:35:50 GMT -5
Past success of Idols isn't relevant Other than Carrie Underwood, none are really stars today ??? Kelly Clarkson and Daughtry sure are ("Contestants", not "Idols") That's three huge stars from the first five seasons, and none from the last four seasons
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 13:05:33 GMT -5
Let me rephrase
If any past Idol of Idol finalist who has had big albums in the past, were to release an album today, other than Carrie Underwood, which person would have an album big enough to move 1 million copies?
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Dec 4, 2010 13:59:13 GMT -5
^Seems like that's kind of going off on a tangent IMO
In order for A. I. to revive itself, I think viewers need to know that the person they vote for can become a huge pop/rock/country superstar (like Kelly Clarkson, Daughtry, and Carrie Underwood did) - not just a one-or-two hit wonder
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on Dec 4, 2010 15:12:08 GMT -5
That's the problem though, the viewers no longer care about whether or not who they vote for is successful. The voting audience is now mostly just 40-year-old housewives who are voting for who they think is hot rather than who they think is talented and they really have no clue what kind of artist is current or marketable. That younger voting audience that used to be a pretty good reception of what was current in the music industry has left the show, and unless they get that audience back, the show's time of cultural relevancy is basically finished. Obviously Idol realizes this hence the changes this year (lower age limit = younger contestants = hopefully for them, younger viewers), but I think it mightbe too late. I think the show will probably stick around for 3 more years or so but X Factor will probably finish it off although it wouldn't surprise me if that had the same problems the current incarceration of Idol does. They need to market that show in a way that makes it attractive for the younger audiences otherwise it'll just be a rehash of the past two years of Idol.
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malwaredie
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Post by malwaredie on Dec 4, 2010 15:23:05 GMT -5
Let me rephrase If any past Idol of Idol finalist who has had big albums in the past, were to release an album today, other than Carrie Underwood, which person would have an album big enough to move 1 million copies? The answer is none of them. Daughtry's third album is nearly guaranteed to miss the million mark.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 15:45:06 GMT -5
^Seems like that's kind of going off on a tangent IMO In order for A. I. to revive itself, I think viewers need to know that the person they vote for can become a huge pop/rock/country superstar (like Kelly Clarkson, Daughtry, and Carrie Underwood did) - not just a one-or-two hit wonder There is a related point here. The name "American Idol" doesn't mean as much as it used to, even regarding people who have past success.
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MSradio
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Post by MSradio on Dec 4, 2010 20:20:43 GMT -5
^Seems like that's kind of going off on a tangent IMO In order for A. I. to revive itself, I think viewers need to know that the person they vote for can become a huge pop/rock/country superstar (like Kelly Clarkson, Daughtry, and Carrie Underwood did) - not just a one-or-two hit wonder We'll see if that happens! I'm not voting for another DeWyze, and to lesser extent, Allen. I'll only vote for another Hudson, Daughtry, Clarkson, Underwood, or Sparks.
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Post by K. on Dec 4, 2010 21:28:14 GMT -5
They need to focus on getting singers rather than people who are contemporary or fit a certain niche or are even good performers.
I mean, I think if anything, Leona Lewis proved that you don't have to be a good performer or have a big personality to totally rock an American Idol-like competition.
And it is no coincedence that the only ones to hit it big out of idol are belters with genuinely amazing voices.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Dec 4, 2010 22:01:18 GMT -5
i think what they need to do is not shy away from people who aren't amazingly attractive. The show was at it's best when the frontrunners were "average Joes" like you and me. Now it just seems you have to look good to even get a chance.
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MSradio
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Post by MSradio on Dec 4, 2010 22:07:09 GMT -5
i think what they need to do is not shy away from people who aren't amazingly attractive. The show was at it's best when the frontrunners were "average Joes" like you and me. Now it just seems you have to look good to even get a chance. Lee and Crystal were the top 2 last year, I wouldn't call them "good looking" or "stunning" in any way. Both are pretty average looking, if that.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Dec 4, 2010 22:11:11 GMT -5
Let me rephrase If any past Idol of Idol finalist who has had big albums in the past, were to release an album today, other than Carrie Underwood, which person would have an album big enough to move 1 million copies? The answer is none of them. Daughtry's third album is nearly guaranteed to miss the million mark. This all seems kind of unrelated IMO, but Daughtry and Kelly Clarkson make an insane amount of money off radio airplay - I'm not sure how the profits from airplay compare to the profits from CD sales, but I definitely wouldn't call Carrie Underwood a "bigger" star than the other two
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swim
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Post by swim on Dec 5, 2010 18:25:33 GMT -5
In terms of talent AI needs to revive itself, which it looks like they are making changes to the structure.
The show itself is going nowhere regardless of the success of winners.
1. It's a reality show, therefore it's cheaper to produce. Even more so now that Simon is gone.
2. It's FOX's MOST PROFITABLE show, they will not cancel it until it isn't profitable. Other than Glee none of their other shows hold as much significance in pop culture.
3. Even with declining ratings, it was still #1. Even if it falls below #1, the show will still bring in a ton of money for FOX.
It's not going to get canceled because it fails to produce stars in the music world. American Idol is a TV show first, and finding music stars second.
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MSradio
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Post by MSradio on Dec 5, 2010 18:39:23 GMT -5
Which is why half of the winner's flop afterwards. They need a good balance of both aspects, Kelly and Carrie fit each perfectly, and Jordin to lesser extent.
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swim
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Post by swim on Dec 5, 2010 18:45:38 GMT -5
The answer is none of them. Daughtry's third album is nearly guaranteed to miss the million mark. This all seems kind of unrelated IMO, but Daughtry and Kelly Clarkson make an insane amount of money off radio airplay - I'm not sure how the profits from airplay compare to the profits from CD sales, but I definitely wouldn't call Carrie Underwood a "bigger" star than the other two Yeah, I agree. Plus, Carrie being a country star doesn't do as well internationally as the others even if she is doing better (right now) in the US
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 19:46:59 GMT -5
"international" success or lack of it was not what I was referring to in an AMERICAN Idol
I was pointing out that other than maybe Carrie Underwood, there isn't a past winner or finalist out there that is big enough now to have a million selling album.
Another symptom of the dwindling value of the American Idol brand name.
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swim
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Post by swim on Dec 5, 2010 19:59:57 GMT -5
"international" success or lack of it was not what I was referring to in an AMERICAN Idol I was pointing out that other than maybe Carrie Underwood, there isn't a past winner or finalist out there that is big enough now to have a million selling album. Another symptom of the dwindling value of the American Idol brand name. In today's world the "American" part is really not relevant. It's hard for anyone to clear one million. I'll give you Lee, he totally flopped. Kris did too compared to past winners considering David Cook cleared the one million mark. I believe it's possible for Kelly to still have a million selling album. Daughtry's current album is over one million.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 20:09:08 GMT -5
I meant the here and now.
David Cook releases an album today, it has no chance at 1 million
yes, Daughtry's current album is 1.2M(released nearly a year and a half ago), his previous is at 4.8M.
If he were to release an album now, it doesn't stand much of a chance at 1M
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swim
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Post by swim on Dec 5, 2010 20:17:56 GMT -5
Not much else sells one million today anyways, not just American Idol contestants.
The majority of artists/bands who previously sold one million have a harder chance doing it today. The American Idol brand is being hurt by voting for the same type of winners year after year, but that's it. There are still several contestants who sell on par with the majority of popular acts right now.
Carrie wouldn't even be a a shoo-in for a million plus album if she released something new right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 20:35:10 GMT -5
For Idol albums, the current sales climate used to not matter.
A testament to the declining value of American-Idol
Big-albums can still do 1 million, if not in 1 year then in 2.
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MSradio
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Post by MSradio on Dec 5, 2010 20:53:25 GMT -5
Any album has a chance at 1 million. Lets say David Cook's album produces 4 hit singles, he could def. clear 1 million.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 21:11:28 GMT -5
Yes, anything is possible. Yes, David Cook could have 4 hit singles(did he before?). Kelly Clarkson could return to the level of popularity she enjoyed in the middle of the last decade and reel off top 10 hit after top 10 hit. Clay Aiken, Fantasia and others could have huge hits again, like they did right after winning.
I am suggesting that isn't going to happen with the American Idol folks anymore.
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MSradio
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Post by MSradio on Dec 5, 2010 21:13:11 GMT -5
Oh, no problem. Suggest away, anything is possible. Kelly Clarkson just had 3 top 10 hits last year, and Fantasia has had 2 Urban hits recently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 21:24:03 GMT -5
Kelly Clarkson had 1 top 10 in 2009. Prior to that there was one in 2007, you have to go back to 2005 and prior to see any level of popularity that she enjoyed after winning AI
Regarding Fantasia, little radio hits on small genre charts hasn't translated well to album sales, which was kind of my point
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MSradio
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Post by MSradio on Dec 5, 2010 21:45:54 GMT -5
Kelly Clarkson had 1 top 10 in 2009. Prior to that there was one in 2007, you have to go back to 2005 and prior to see any level of popularity that she enjoyed after winning AI Regarding Fantasia, little radio hits on small genre charts hasn't translated well to album sales, which was kind of my point They're both still stars in their genres. Kelly's first single went #1 on the hot 100, and all 3 of her singles were top 10 chr hits.
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