jaseboyhyde
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Post by jaseboyhyde on May 15, 2012 9:03:23 GMT -5
Eric Church paints himself to be an outlaw, that much to me is painfully obvious. Everything from his image to the topics and lyrics of his songs to his overall attitude in general emphasize this. Hi Indulge, I respectfully disagree with your disdain for Eric, of which you've made extremely clear. Your point here, being that the lyrical content of his songs and his stage attitude paint him to be an outlaw, proves my point. It isn't him saying "I'm an outlaw, I'm an outlaw" that makes him an outlaw. It's the content and style of his music that have made people think that he is. Unless you know him personally, generalizations about his character and life outside of his music are hardly accurate or credible.
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jaseboyhyde
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Post by jaseboyhyde on May 15, 2012 9:10:28 GMT -5
Lisping, while I always appreciate and admire your knowledge and appreciation for music in general, I'm not sure I agree that Eric is "Postulating himself as an outlaw". Throughout his career, he has spoken his mind and taken the path less taken. He has literally done things the hard way (he brought much of that on himself), and the media has taken the outlaw image and run with it. I'm not sure Eric is the one that started that. I've yet to see a quote from Eric Church where he calls himself an outlaw or bad boy. That doesn't mean they aren't out there, just that I haven't seen them or can't recall (which is highly probable). Then why does his very own web-site depict in its store section a line of T-shirts that boast about outlaw country not being dead? Why does he not vocally contest it when other artists, including Brad Paisley, greet him as an outlaw upon introducing him at awards shows? I KNOW Church pays especially close attention to the press as he does the charts, and wouldn't believe him one second if he said he was oblivious to all of this. Namaste, lisping HIBISCUS Much of Eric's music is considered to be edgy and outlaw. The MSM, Eric's peers, and many fans consider him to be "Outlaw" or "Bad Boy". He's put things on the radio that other artists haven't dared to try. People consider that to be outlaw and edgy. My point is that Eric didn't gain that image by running around screaming "I'm an outlaw, look at me". . . he did what he did musically and people noticed and began proclaiming him as an outlaw. Not the other way around. Do you think when Brad Paisley says " Here's country music's bad boy, Eric Church" as the band has already begun playing, that Eric should stop the band and say, "I'm not an outlaw", and then begin his performance?
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on May 15, 2012 10:29:00 GMT -5
I'm sure Eric Church at the end of the day really doesnt have control of his merch...things that matter most to him are his music and the fans the buy it ! He really isn't in the game of award shows and merchandise. You'd actually be surprised at how much artists have a say in their merchandise. Most touring artists make more money and are more profitable off their merchandise sales than off the ticket sales, since the ticket sales are paying for so much. That's partly why an artist like Will Hoge is at the merch table after every single show - it keeps him approachable, yes, but he's also pocketing a majority of everything he sells. So a business-smart artist will want to have as much of a hand in the merchandise process as possible, as it's the most lucrative point of the business. (And that's your Music Business 101 lesson for the day.) Certainly, a singer/songwriter such as Eric is already doing very well for himself via royalties and the like, but it's doubtful he's actually profiting very much from a sold-out arena tour. As for his "outlaw" image, no, he doesn't run around saying "look at me, look at me, I'm so outlaw!" He can leave that for Justin Moore. However, he's also done absolutely nothing to dissuade that view of him, either. As long as he rolls with it, as he does now, the more people are going to assume that he's perfectly fine with that particular image. When his best friend (ESPN's Marty Smith) refers to him that way on a regular basis (follow him on Twitter - @martysmithespn) - I don't see Eric having a problem with it. And if he did have a problem with it, Eric Church is certainly not one to just sit around and not say anything about it, either. To me, he continues to perpetuate the image. And I believe that's roughly what indulge was trying to articulate, as well. As for this song, I'm quickly growing tired of it. It's everywhere. I suppose I'm more exposed to it via Facebook and Twitter but it's literally quoted on every social media site I'm a part of. It's a good song. I still enjoy it. But I'm more likely, at this point in its run, to turn it off for want of something different.
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jaseboyhyde
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Post by jaseboyhyde on May 15, 2012 11:04:24 GMT -5
I Understand the point they are all making. I just disagree that it's Eric that created all this "outlaw" talk in any way other than doing his music his way. People perceive him that way, and I never said he doesn't enjoy, agree, or benefit from it. All I have ever said is that Eric isn't the one that proclaims himself to be an outlaw, it's come from everywhere else. Whether or not he agrees or dislikes or dissuades people from viewing him that way is another topic altogether.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on May 15, 2012 12:40:28 GMT -5
My first thought on the subject, is who cares if he created his whole Outlaw image? He stands out in a cookie cutter genre that severely needs a few artists to stand out. That being said , I don't believe he went out of his way create it. He was apparently strongly influenced By Waylon, Willie , Cash & Haggard. Of course that's going to shine through (and I find it refreshing). For the record , even Waylon & Willie didn't create their "Outlaw images" per se. It was simply a magazine article someone wrote, and they ran with it. At the time country music was in a creative slump and sorely needed a little life injected into it. They never took the moniker near as serious as their audience did , and I suspect the same holds true with Mr. Church.
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jaseboyhyde
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Post by jaseboyhyde on May 15, 2012 12:53:33 GMT -5
My first thought on the subject, is who cares if he created his whole Outlaw image? He stands out in a cookie cutter genre that severely needs a few artists to stand out. That being said , I don't believe he went out of his way create it. He was apparently strongly influenced By Waylon, Willie , Cash & Haggard. Of course that's going to shine through (and I find it refreshing). For the record , even Waylon & Willie didn't create their "Outlaw images" per se. It was simply a magazine article someone wrote, and they ran with it. At the time country music was in a creative slump and sorely needed a little life injected into it. They never took the moniker near as serious as their audience did , and I suspect the same holds true with Mr. Church. Agreed on all fronts.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on May 15, 2012 13:00:03 GMT -5
I don't understand the notion that the media labeled him an outlaw, and it wasn't his own doing. Well, just because we don't have a video with him saying "I'm an outlaw" to a camera somewhere, doesn't mean that it isn't obvious he's doing everything he can to be judged that way. Your argument (jaseboyhyde) makes it almost seem like your implying he doesn't want that label. If he really doesn't, which I highly doubt, he'd probably take off his sunglasses and tone down his attitude.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on May 15, 2012 13:31:29 GMT -5
But I see no reason why should either take off his glasses or "tone it down". He has apparently found a audience that doesn't see either as a negative. Is this the soccer mom demograph? Id guess not. But with brisk album/ single sales & sold out shows....who cares? And really ? What is the big deal about sunglasses? Have you ever stood under stage lights? Not only are they hot they are bright. Many artists wear sunglasses or tented glasses on stage for that very reason. Again, not that it should really matter . Most artists have stage wear that they don't wear off. I'm fairly certain Tim McGraw doesn't climb out of bed on his days off and throw on a cowboy hat & boots. Where is the uproar about his cowboy image?
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jaseboyhyde
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Post by jaseboyhyde on May 15, 2012 13:40:25 GMT -5
Indulge, my whole reason for even saying anything in the first place was because you and others began making comments about how Eric lauds himself as this big Outlaw but really he's just a phony. I just simply stated the fact that his career and music has made other people give him that label, he didn't just annoint himself a country music outlaw. He's made a career out of being who he is and other people have determined that an outlaw IS who he is, at least musically. I've not argued that he wants or doesn't want the label, just that it wasn't Eric who gave himself the label as implied by several on this board. He hasn't changed or done anything different...if he took off the shades and toned down his music people would start calling him a sellout (or they could just call him Blake). We can agree to disagree, that's fine with me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2012 13:56:12 GMT -5
I don't understand the notion that the media labeled him an outlaw, and it wasn't his own doing. Well, just because we don't have a video with him saying "I'm an outlaw" to a camera somewhere, doesn't mean that it isn't obvious he's doing everything he can to be judged that way. Your argument ( jaseboyhyde) makes it almost seem like your implying he doesn't want that label. If he really doesn't, which I highly doubt, he'd probably take off his sunglasses and tone down his attitude. Jaseboyhyde never said that Eric didn't have an image, he just said (numerous times) that Eric took what he was perceived by and ran with it: I respectfully disagree with your disdain for Eric, of which you've made extremely clear. Your point here, being that the lyrical content of his songs and his stage attitude paint him to be an outlaw, proves my point. It isn't him saying "I'm an outlaw, I'm an outlaw" that makes him an outlaw. It's the content and style of his music that have made people think that he is. And: I Understand the point they are all making. I just disagree that it's Eric that created all this "outlaw" talk in any way other than doing his music his way. People perceive him that way, and I never said he doesn't enjoy, agree, or benefit from it. All I have ever said is that Eric isn't the one that proclaims himself to be an outlaw, it's come from everywhere else. Whether or not he agrees or dislikes or dissuades people from viewing him that way is another topic altogether. Look, I get that some people don't care for Eric Church and that's fine. No one should have to like everyone. But... Unless you know him personally, generalizations about his character and life outside of his music are hardly accurate or credible. Finally... I'm fairly certain Tim McGraw doesn't climb out of bed on his days off and throw on a cowboy hat & boots. Where is the uproar about his cowboy image? LOL. This was perfect, and I totally agree. As for "Springsteen", there's no way I could get tired of this song. It is already a huge hit but only getting bigger. Probably won't be #1 for a couple of weeks yet, but they already had a "power up for #1 ad" in the BCU last night. I'd be nervous if I was pulling for "Good Girl" too (oh wait, I am!)
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on May 15, 2012 13:57:13 GMT -5
Umm, I don't particularly disagree with you and certainly don't think hes a phony. If anything , I find him more honest then the average country music artist . Its others who seem to think all opinions should be white washed once you sign a record deal. if he took off the shades and toned down his music people would start calling him a sellout (or they could just call him Blake). We can agree to disagree, that's fine with me. Good one! LOL. And I like Blake for the most part....
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jaseboyhyde
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Post by jaseboyhyde on May 15, 2012 14:14:41 GMT -5
Umm, I don't particularly disagree with you and certainly don't think hes a phony. If anything , I find him more honest then the average country music artist . Its others who seem to think all opinions should be white washed once you sign a record deal. Ooops, Lumpster my last post was intended for Indulge, I apologize.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on May 15, 2012 15:42:48 GMT -5
But I see no reason why should either take off his glasses or "tone it down". He has apparently found a audience that doesn't see either as a negative. Is this the soccer mom demograph? Id guess not. But with brisk album/ single sales & sold out shows....who cares? And really ? What is the big deal about sunglasses? Have you ever stood under stage lights? Not only are they hot they are bright. Many artists wear sunglasses or tented glasses on stage for that very reason. Again, not that it should really matter . Most artists have stage wear that they don't wear off. I'm fairly certain Tim McGraw doesn't climb out of bed on his days off and throw on a cowboy hat & boots. Where is the uproar about his cowboy image? That comment was in response to what I perceived to be an argument from jaseboyhyde that Eric Church didn't want his outlaw branding that supposedly the media has given him. I don't really care if he leaves his sunglasses on when he sings, since I'm not a fan of his anyway. If I was though, I wouldn't like it. I've never seen another performer live who has worn glasses like that (and yes, I have even seen the one and only Eric Church himself live), and quite frankly I'd be disappointed if I was seeing someone I liked perform with sunglasses on. Someone else made a post on here in the past about how a lot of the enjoyment of an artist's performance comes from seeing their eyes, and I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on May 15, 2012 16:42:27 GMT -5
Fair enough ...
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on May 15, 2012 18:08:04 GMT -5
My first thought on the subject, is who cares if he created his whole Outlaw image? He stands out in a cookie cutter genre that severely needs a few artists to stand out. That being said , I don't believe he went out of his way create it. He was apparently strongly influenced By Waylon, Willie , Cash & Haggard. Of course that's going to shine through (and I find it refreshing). For the record , even Waylon & Willie didn't create their "Outlaw images" per se. It was simply a magazine article someone wrote, and they ran with it. At the time country music was in a creative slump and sorely needed a little life injected into it. They never took the moniker near as serious as their audience did , and I suspect the same holds true with Mr. Church. Don't forget that Jennings and Nelson recorded country's first platinum album called The Outlaws with Colter and Glaser.
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phil1996
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Post by phil1996 on May 15, 2012 18:27:50 GMT -5
Coming from someone who saw Eric live on Saturday. --- I can see why people dislike the fact that he wears shades on stage, but he shows a ton of emotion out there in concert. He is probably the most intense entertainer I've ever seen. He's wild, really gets into it up there.
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on May 15, 2012 20:53:13 GMT -5
Well when ever I want a good laugh I will pull up this video...
This is Eric (the outlaw, the singing contest hater) in a singing contest looking like a preppy school kid without shades on stage singing Garth's "We Shall Be Free"! Someone needs to show this to Eric to make sure he is aware not everyone tries to get his start in a smokey club, including him!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2012 21:08:42 GMT -5
^Um, Eric's aware of that. He never said he didn't like singing contests, either. He said he doesn't consider it artistry and he believes reality singing contests these days try to gloss things over too much and don't allow people to really develop as artists, but instead make aspiring singers believe they can have superstardom handed to them on a silver platter.
It's fine if people don't like Eric Church. But I don't see why those people need to keep posting in the Eric Church thread (not about "Springsteen", even), trying to convince the people that DO like Eric Church that he's just someone who hates old people and anyone who was ever on a reality show...oh, and that he's just some crazy smart-mouth sunglasses-wearing outlaw. We get it, you don't like him.
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ajd3232
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Post by ajd3232 on May 15, 2012 22:32:44 GMT -5
Well when ever I want a good laugh I will pull up this video... This is Eric (the outlaw, the singing contest hater) in a singing contest looking like a preppy school kid without shades on stage singing Garth's "We Shall Be Free"! Someone needs to show this to Eric to make sure he is aware not everyone tries to get his start in a smokey club, including him! This is totally different from someone who is getting a platform to perform in front of millions and someone performing in a local contest. Chances are Eric wont get instant stardom from this local talent show. So I dont see how this is should be compared to people who audition for idol or the voice. I understand everyone has their opinions about singing shows and honestly I dont care if you got your stardom from singing shows or singing in bar, but I am not going to keep criticizing Eric for what he said, because we all have opinions and i just feel like some people are taking what he said just tad bit to far. We all have our moments. And I believe pulling up a video of him in a talent show and basically saying it the same thing as competing on a show like the idol or voice or saying this is where he got his start is just plain stupid. Anyway I am about to get back on topic and say I hope springsteen cracks number one soon and stays there for couple of weeks. The song deserves it.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on May 18, 2012 17:19:15 GMT -5
Whether or not Eric Church ever cast himself as an outlaw, there comes a point when the outsider with a chip-on-his-shoulder mentality evolves into a public identity, and he is well past that point. I like that Eric had some fun with the "outlaw" kerfuffle with "Country Music Jesus," but I think one of his biggest challenges to come will be navigating his success without becoming a caricature of himself. He is in the ideal position now -- the music is leading his success (moreso than his image, in my view), and he gets to be that cool guy who surprised everyone by achieving an all-genre #1 album before ever having a top-10 radio hit, the one who is outselling most of the artists currently championed by Music Row insiders, the guy who co-wrote and rode "Springsteen" to huge success, and one of the few country artists of whom Rolling Stone deigns to take positive notice. This is the uncomplicated, easy part where Eric gets to reap rewards of his under-the-radar work in the past six or seven years.
The trouble moving forward is that Eric Church won't be able to sneak up on anyone anymore, and there are many more people who will feel ownership in and place expectations on his career now. I remember Kings of Leon talking about feeling rebellious against the influx of new fans who signed on after "Use Somebody" and "Sex Is On Fire." Eric's protestations about being outside of the mainstream will ring hollower now that country radio is embracing him and the industry is at least nominating him for awards. As I said in another thread, I suspect Eric's (Blake Shelton-targeted, in my view) comments about preferring to starve over becoming a reality show judge and letting his identity become about something other than the music betrayed a desire for greater recognition by Music Row. How he navigates any desire for that recognition with his proud outsider status will be interesting to see. Fairly or not, Eric's next album will come under greater scrutiny in the context of the possibility that the outsider is getting soft or selling out.
As for why I'm looking that far ahead of an album that isn't close to being done yet, the point I'm trying to make is that regardless of the origins of the "outlaw"/"outsider" identity, those tags define Eric's public persona now and I see a tension between them and the success he is beginning to experience.
But in the meantime, it's fun to see Eric breaking through with music that I like. I can't say I'm too fond of his public persona, but I do appreciate that he has brought some clever, sophisticated writing and interesting studio production choices (via Jay Joyce) to the frat boy country trend that has overtaken country radio in the past few years. As for "Springsteen," I wouldn't be surprised to see it follow Kip Moore to #1 in three charts (it certainly won't take more than four charts), and I agree with the consensus that it will stay at #1 for two, maybe three, weeks. It will wind up a bigger single than its stay at #1 might suggest, in my view.
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leilamaurizia
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Post by leilamaurizia on May 29, 2012 7:22:25 GMT -5
RTT:
Country No.1 Eric Church Springsteen +2840 Jessie James Military Man
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jaseboyhyde
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Post by jaseboyhyde on May 29, 2012 8:38:31 GMT -5
What is RTT?
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on May 29, 2012 9:03:34 GMT -5
Real-Time Tracker. It's typically indicative of what the current #1 and greatest gainers are on Billboard - it's the closest thing we have to "public" Billboard information before the Billboard Country Update and/or highlights come out Monday (or Tuesday this week, since yesterday was a holiday).
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justme60
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Post by justme60 on May 29, 2012 11:55:19 GMT -5
So I guess that means he jumps over "Good Girl"?? He didn't get such a good review this weekend at the Bayou Superfest. He was opening beer cans and throwing them in the crowd and the way the writer talks, Eric did a bunch more antics like that! Wonder what his problem is?? I do like the Springsteen song and glad it got to #1.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on May 29, 2012 12:00:03 GMT -5
So I guess that means he jumps over "Good Girl"?? He didn't get such a good review this weekend at the Bayou Superfest. He was opening beer cans and throwing them in the crowd and the way the writer talks, Eric did a bunch more antics like that! Wonder what his problem is?? I do like the Springsteen song and glad it got to #1. First, Eric Church landed at #4 last week with Springsteen. He did pass Carrie Underwood, who was at #5 with Good Girl. Second, Kip Moore spends a second week at #1 with Somethin' 'Bout A Truck.
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on May 29, 2012 12:03:06 GMT -5
It appears as though Kip Moore will retain #1 on Billboard for the chart that is publishing tonight. Eric is trending on Billboard as the next #1, but he was already ahead of "Good Girl" on Billboard, and it's possible the RTT will fluctuate between "Good Girl" and "Springsteen" throughout the week. "Good Girl," for instance, put up a gain of over 400k in AI on Mediabase this morning, whereas "Springsteen" all but stood still. Looks to be a close week.
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Scotty
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Post by Scotty on May 29, 2012 12:24:43 GMT -5
Trying to think of a song this year that I like better, but for now this is definitely my favourite single so far! Sometimes I think people really get too caught up in public image and artistry because what really matters is his music, and Eric Church's image seems to work for him and his success is huge, you know when they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Anyway, I'm really hoping for a #1 peak here for Springsteen and it's looking pretty likely at the moment. Good Girl has a small lead at the moment so we'll see in a bit how everything will turn out. Regardless though, I'm really happy two of my favourite country songs this year are doing so well. :)
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on May 30, 2012 18:41:49 GMT -5
#1 in Canada!
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Post by lonelyalone on May 30, 2012 20:40:19 GMT -5
Does anyone else hear the melodic similarities in the verses to Keith Anderson's "Everytime I Hear Your Name"? It's all I can think of whenever this song comes on the radio.
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Post by singingsparrow on May 31, 2012 1:08:47 GMT -5
I think of Bruce Springsteen's own "Tougher Than The Rest" whenever I hear this, actually.
Namaste, lisping HIBISCUS
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