Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 9:34:25 GMT -5
I donβt see Mariah getting in anytime soon. Love her, just doubt it will happen. Janet should certainly be in before her, and she is a current nominee (and was already passed over before).
This board only seems to care about female artists, Iβm sure there are many male led pop and rock acts who are more deserving than Mariah and Whitney and they have never been nominated either.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 9:40:53 GMT -5
I donβt see Mariah getting in anytime soon. Love her, just doubt it will happen. Janet should certainly be in before her, and she is a current nominee (and was already passed over before). This board only seems to care about female artists, Iβm sure there are many male led pop and rock acts who are more deserving than Mariah and Whitney and they have never been nominated either.Name them. Meanwhile the HoF only seems to care about male artists. Look at how many more male artists are inducted year after year. I am rolling my eyes at you calling out this board for only caring about females when it's the HoF that is traditionally sexist. That's why some of us care about getting female artists in. If things were more equal, we wouldn't need to focus on female as much.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 9:42:57 GMT -5
^Weβve never seen you focus on anyone but Mariah though.....
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 9:56:57 GMT -5
I donβt see Mariah getting in anytime soon. Love her, just doubt it will happen. Janet should certainly be in before her, and she is a current nominee (and was already passed over before). This board only seems to care about female artists, Iβm sure there are many male led pop and rock acts who are more deserving than Mariah and Whitney and they have never been nominated either.Name them. Iβm at work and canβt do the real research, but off the top of my head I would say certain hard rock acts like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. Not only were they huge back in the day but still play arenas worldwide. As for more pop acts, I would say Duran Duran & Eurythmics. They definitely had an impact on 80βs culture.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 9:57:51 GMT -5
^Weβve never seen you focus on anyone but Mariah though..... First of all, if that was true, so tf what? Why does that matter? Secondly, it simply isn't true. Here I am talking about Carole King and Dolly Parton (and here about the sexism of Dolly not being in). And here about Carole King again. And here I am saying Chic should be in. And here I am a month ago mentioning Radiohead. Let me also add right now that Outkast being left off is a disgrace, too.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 10:00:28 GMT -5
As for more pop acts, I would say Duran Duran & Eurythmics. They definitely had an impact on 80βs culture. I would agree they were a big part of the 80s, but neither act has had the level of impact/influence on music that Mariah Carey has had.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 10:00:54 GMT -5
Donβt get salty, your Mariah argument wonβt make her get nominated.
How about we focus on Stevie, Janet and Chaka because they are currently in the running.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 7, 2018 10:02:54 GMT -5
Mariah has had influence on pop artists as you have said but what about rock(like say Nickelback, Creed or others)?
That is why she is not in, coupled with she is not a rock singer. Has nothing to do with gender.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 10:05:36 GMT -5
As for more pop acts, I would say Duran Duran & Eurythmics. They definitely had an impact on 80βs culture. I would agree they were a big part of the 80s, but neither act has had the level of impact/influence on music that Mariah Carey has had. These voters give zero f*cks about #1 singles and albums. I love Ronnie Spector, but sheβs basically in the HOF for one big hit.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 10:24:43 GMT -5
Mariah has had influence on pop artists as you have said but what about rock (like say Nickelback, Creed or others)? That is why she is not in, coupled with she is not a rock singer. Has nothing to do with gender. Why tf do you keep bringing this up when it has been pointed out that many non-rock acts are in the HoF? If having an impact on rock bands/acts was a requirement, then ABBA, Stevie Wonder, Bill Monroe, Gladys Knight, the Jackson 5, Al Green, Billie Holiday, and so on would not be in the HoF. You cannot use being R&B/pop against artists when so many in the HoF are from the pop/R&B (and country) world.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 10:26:16 GMT -5
I would agree they were a big part of the 80s, but neither act has had the level of impact/influence on music that Mariah Carey has had. These voters give zero f*cks about #1 singles and albums. I love Ronnie Spector, but sheβs basically in the HOF for one big hit. Why did you bring up #1 singles and albums? I didn't even mention that, so I am not sure of your point. I also don't understand why you brought up Ronnie Spector.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Nov 7, 2018 10:28:13 GMT -5
I think Stevie Nicks could get in based on her song writing skills and her albums Bella Donna and Wild Heart.
Stop Dragging, Leather & Lace and Edge of 17 is quite the trifecta for solo work.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 10:33:29 GMT -5
I think Stevie Nicks could get in based on her song writing skills and her albums Bella Donna and Wild Heart. Stop Dragging, Leather & Lace and Edge of 17 is quite the trifecta for solo work. She could get in, sure, but how sad is it that we're talking about someone getting in the Hall of Fame for 3 singles? That's like someone getting in the baseball Hall of Fame for having 1 good year. There are so many artists who had strong careers who aren't in it, so why should someone get in for having an album with 3 strong singles? Hell, Tapestry is more landmark than all of Stevie's solo work, yet Carole King isn't in as a solo artist.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 10:41:16 GMT -5
These voters give zero f*cks about #1 singles and albums. I love Ronnie Spector, but sheβs basically in the HOF for one big hit. Why did you bring up #1 singles and albums? I didn't even mention that, so I am not sure of your point. I also don't understand why you brought up Ronnie Spector. Sometimes thereβs no rhyme or reason as to who gets in, which is why I brought up Ronnie. As for MC, sheβs the queen of Billboard #1 singles, very nice. What other impact has she had that Stevie Nicks hasnβt? They both influenced younger female singers.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 7, 2018 10:42:44 GMT -5
Mariah has had influence on pop artists as you have said but what about rock (like say Nickelback, Creed or others)? That is why she is not in, coupled with she is not a rock singer. Has nothing to do with gender. Why tf do you keep bringing this up when it has been pointed out that many non-rock acts are in the HoF? If having an impact on rock bands/acts was a requirement, then ABBA, Stevie Wonder, Bill Monroe, Gladys Knight, the Jackson 5, Al Green, Billie Holiday, and so on would not be in the HoF. You cannot use being R&B/pop against artists when so many in the HoF are from the pop/R&B (and country) world. I obviously have nothing to do with the voting, just trying to interpret the criteria that they are using (at least what is published) You answered the question about Mariah's influence on other artists, in the pop genre that I agree with. What about rock? As that is the criteria that is actually being used. How has her music influenced rock acts(actual rock acts like 3 Doors Down, Creed or others)? The artists you keep citing that are in, the voters obviously felt there was influence on the genre. This makes sense to me as rock n roll has its roots in other genres. As I am not one of the voters, I am not going to defend ABBA's induction or any of the others, they are in. I think Mariah is a lock for induction at the point that the rock voters expand the definition as to what "Rock N Roll" is, or the rock voters decided that there is some influence on the rock genre. Until then, looks like the debate will continue.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Nov 7, 2018 10:46:09 GMT -5
Sad?? Those three Stevie songs are heard all the time on the radio. They are having a lasting impact.
Stevie still tours and is great live.
So Stevie can't get in because Carole King is not in?
Yes, it doesn't make sense, but Stevie is a good prospect for the HOF.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 10:53:39 GMT -5
Sad?? Those three Stevie songs are heard all the time on the radio. They are having a lasting impact. I'm someone who thinks it should take more than 3 strong singles to get into the HoF.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 10:55:32 GMT -5
As for MC, sheβs the queen of Billboard #1 singles, very nice. What other impact has she had that Stevie Nicks hasnβt? They both influenced younger female singers. First of all, Mariah has influenced many more singers than Stevie Nicks (particularly as, again, we are talking about Stevie Nicks as a solo artist and not as part of Fleetwood Mac). Here is a very detailed (and well-researched) article I wrote on the impact of Mariah's "Vision of Love" alone. Singers from Beyonce to Kelly Clarkson to Christina Aguilera have talked about the song influencing them, but (and here you go Gary) so have alt/rock acts like Dirty Projectors, Pandr Eyez, and Grimes. We all know the impact of "All I Want for Christmas Is You," which has been covered by pop acts, but also rock (My Chemical Romance, John Mayer, etc) and country (Shania Twain, Lady Antebellum) acts. And then starting with the "Fantasy" remix and continuing on with singles like "Heartbreaker," Mariah was at the forefront of bringing hip-hop to pop music and essentially fusing the two genres. Here is some writing about that, which includes quotes from Left Eye of TLC, but also writers from The New Yorker, Rolling Stone, and the LA Times.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 10:58:30 GMT -5
Sad?? Those three Stevie songs are heard all the time on the radio. They are having a lasting impact. I'm someone who thinks it should take more than 3 strong singles to get into the HoF. Stevieβs first 4 solo albums had hits though. Sure, by the 4th album she only hit the top 20 one time with βRooms On Fireβ, but that counts.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 7, 2018 11:02:22 GMT -5
For the record, I donβt think Mariah really has the impact of someone Iβd expect from a R&R HOFer. Whitney, though, I could see. Iβm also surprised Dolly and Carole King arenβt included in there! I guess country acts are a bit more of a stretch than some of the pop acts already included - which still doesnβt explain why pop singers canβt be included as part of the discussion on account of genre. If that reason is actually going to be used, at least make it consistent because as of now, itβs not sufficient.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 11:06:32 GMT -5
I'm someone who thinks it should take more than 3 strong singles to get into the HoF. Stevieβs first 4 solo albums had hits though. Sure, by the 4th album she only hit the top 20 one time with βRooms On Fireβ, but that counts. You are the one who just a bit ago said voters don't give a f*ck about hits. I can see at this point you are just trolling.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 11:09:07 GMT -5
For the record, I donβt think Mariah really has the impact of someone Iβd expect from a R&R HOFer. Whitney, though, I could see. This makes no sense because Mariah has had more impact on music than Whitney. 100. And for the most part, the inconsistency is to the detriment of female artists (e.g. there are male country artists in the HoF but not females).
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 11:19:20 GMT -5
Stevieβs first 4 solo albums had hits though. Sure, by the 4th album she only hit the top 20 one time with βRooms On Fireβ, but that counts. You are the one who just a bit ago said voters don't give a f*ck about hits. I can see at this point you are just trolling. Huh? How is that? You mentioned someone should have more than 3 strong singles, and I was stating she did. I stand corrected about the βhit singlesβ part of my comment, they donβt care about that. How can you accuse anybody here about trolling when youβre only arguing in Mariahβs favor and she is NOT even nominated. You are unreal.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 7, 2018 11:26:00 GMT -5
How can you accuse anybody here about trolling when youβre only arguing in Mariahβs favor and she is NOT even nominated. You are unreal. I've been answering your questions. If you stopped the discussion - and maybe you have since I provided plenty of facts about Mariah's influence - then it would end. Additionally, you are also again providing fake news. I am not "only" arguing in Mariah's favor. I've already made a post that disputed this claim of yours, and in that post I mentioned Outkast as well. I've also been discussing Stevie Nicks and Carole King today. So, please stop lying about me.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2018 11:29:13 GMT -5
How can you accuse anybody here about trolling when youβre only arguing in Mariahβs favor and she is NOT even nominated. You are unreal. I've been answering your questions. If you stopped the discussion - and maybe you have since I provided plenty of facts about Mariah's influence - then it would end. Additionally, you are also again providing fake news. I am not "only" arguing in Mariah's favor. I've already made a post that disputed this claim of yours, and in that post I mentioned Outkast as well. I've also been discussing Stevie Nicks and Carole King today. So, please stop lying about me. Fair enough, but again we should focus on the 3 women who are nominated and not diminish their careers and impact.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 7, 2018 11:38:52 GMT -5
Until (or if) the nominating committee puts her on the ballot, kind of a pointless discussion anyway. As it is not going to accomplish anything.
For the record, I support the expansion of the definition of rock n roll. Especially since these days, rock takes a back seat to hip-hop
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 7, 2018 11:47:44 GMT -5
If itβs a pointless discussion, why add to the speculation and insist any reasoning is not related to gender?
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 7, 2018 12:10:23 GMT -5
If itβs a pointless discussion, why add to the speculation and insist any reasoning is not related to gender? really? If Mariah got her 18#1's with Rock N Roll, she's already be in and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 7, 2018 12:50:11 GMT -5
Youβre the one who said itβs pointless while continuing the discussion and avoiding any request to defend your position.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 7, 2018 12:59:16 GMT -5
Youβre the one who said itβs pointless while continuing the discussion and avoiding any request to defend your position. OK this is also a pointless discussion Thanks
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