Bigger cultural impact, Justin Timberlake or Usher

[leoapp]

Both males are easily two most famous and successful pop/urban male artists from the past 10 years. Both started their career in the 90s, one of them was a soloist from the beginning and the other one was a lead vocalist of a huge boyband. Both had blockbuster selling albums, multiple #1 hits and big impact, mainly because only a few male artists could maintain their success for long. They are often compared.
But, in your opinion who has bigger cultural impact? Justin Timberlake or Usher? Or maybe they are equal?

[SPRΞΞ]

they're both fucking hot.

But i think Justin is the bigger star and household name.

[Deleted]

From a pop perspective clearly Justin, but from a r&b and urban perspective Usher clearly, I think Usher has the better overall material, durability but both men have are equally as talented, very tough one to decide for me. I guess it all depends which side of the genres you coming from.

[Deleted]

Oh, it's 2004 again.

Justin. First and foremost, because this is Pulse, I have to assume that every poll has an implicit "POP" qualifier attached to it unless told otherwise. So Usher's urban cred means little to nothing unfortunately. Justin ironically defined his cultural impact through his absence. The reaction to him announcing he was coming back kind of says it all (note: this is aside from the reaction to S&T itself). And I don't think Usher was ever at a point in his career where he could have gone away that long and come back to that level of reception.

The second thing is that Usher is actually still 'young blood' in r&b - young enough that there aren't younger artists who were directly influenced by him. Chris, Miguel, and Trey have the same artist influences that Usher himself had, so even though he's typically placed ahead of them, these guys are considered his contemporaries. He's toured with Trey and worked with Miguel. Justin OTOH really has no fellow pop contemporaries...I can't even remember who was on his level back in 02-06 (besides Usher of course), let alone now. Bruno and Bieber get compared to him in such a way that it's obvious JT is being used as a measuring stick of sorts. That perception makes a huge difference; JT is considered to have imparted some kind of influence or to have left a hole in music that wasn't filled, despite very little solo output. And Usher for some strange reason just doesn't have that.

Finally, Justin has dated other famous people (namely, Britney). When two super famous people date that gives a tremendous media boost. Usher has not had a high profile relationship with another celeb since Chili. And Tameka was a fiasco that should never have happened, that hurt much more than it helped.

I think Usher's status is somewhat underrated when you consider his longevity and the sales/hits he's amassed over almost twenty years. People still only see him as a 'star' (and now he's hit a low point commercially so people only see the waning aspect of that stardom). I really think he needs to come out with a well-done GH package soon to remind people of his legacy, b/c they've either forgotten, they never realized it, or they just don't know. A friend of mine and I were discussing it some time ago and he's got enough hits to justify a double disc set.

[Peaches. [Ch, r. is]]

Same? Neither have had much impact to be perfectly honest.

[K.]

This may be a controversial response, but it may depend on whether you are talking about white culture or black culture....

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

^I definitely thin it's a combination of the last two posts.

Culturally they really haven't had a big impact....and the impact they have had is based on whether we are talking black culture or white culture.

[Deleted]

I've never felt that Usher has that much of a cultural impact.

Justin Timberlake.

[#LisaRinna]

Usher Raymond.

[Agent Yoncé]

Feb 12, 2013 4:31:07 GMT -5 Peaches. [Ch, r. is] said:

Neither have had much impact to be perfectly honest.

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2013 7:30:28 GMT -5 K. said:

This may be a controversial response, but it may depend on whether you are talking about white culture or black culture....

So agree with you, that's what I meant when I used code words like pop or urban perspective

[allow that]

I'm inclined to say they're about equal; that said Usher is coming off of his toughest era to date and Justin is in the current process of receiving the most positive attention he has in over half of a decade, so the timing of this question definitely benefits one over the other. What if this poll was created this time last year?

Feb 12, 2013 4:25:58 GMT -5 @cynthiarose said:

because this is Pulse, I have to assume that every poll has an implicit "POP" qualifier attached to it unless told otherwise. So Usher's urban cred means little to nothing unfortunately.

I'm of the school of thought that it means something. I won't even bother to mention Usher's extensive list of R&B #1's because it speaks for itself. I actually DO feel he's had a tremendous impact on artists such as Trey, Chris, and Ne-Yo (not so much Miguel who I see as more of a modern descendant to the D'Angelo vein of R&B). Chris & Ne-Yo especially: are their introductory singles "Run It" and "So Sick" not modeled after past Usher hits?

Justin ironically defined his cultural impact through his absence. The reaction to him announcing he was coming back kind of says it all (note: this is aside from the reaction to S&T itself).
This is where And I don't think Usher was ever at a point in his career where he could have gone away that long and come back to that level of reception.

Justin wasn't completely absent though: he was making movies & dropping the occasional collaboration with The Lonely Planet, which I do think, in fact, extended his cultural reach. His absence definitely left radio thirsty. I don't think many other artists could have carried a mediocre tune like "Carry Out" to the Pop Top 10. Radio did so because they had the opportunity to play new Justin.

As for Usher being in the same position, yes and no. No because he really can't release just anything and expect it blow up. Radio holds him to his own standard, as they should. He's also put out material consistently, seldom with a break of more than two years in his 18 of making hits now (wow!). I DO feel there was a point, yes just one, where Usher could have left for five+ years and easily come back to a reception we can no longer imagine for him. This would have been following Confessions: I remember the media feenin' for new Usher in 2006 & 2007. When is he coming back? When will the new single drop? Who will he be working with this time? There was an insane level of hype.

Bruno and Bieber get compared to him in such a way that it's obvious JT is being used as a measuring stick of sorts. That perception makes a huge difference; JT is considered to have imparted some kind of influence or to have left a hole in music that wasn't filled, despite very little solo output. And Usher for some strange reason just doesn't have that.

With the exception of Bieber's "Boyfriend" which lbr is meant to channel JT intentionally, I'd say he** and Mars are compared to JT due to overall lack of "solo male Pop divas" rather than striking similarities to JT himself. The market for solo pop/R&B males is far more saturated so there's less cause to reach for someone particular to compare to. That said, I think Usher very much left a hole in the Urban scene during his post-Confessions break. I'll refer back to Ne-Yo and Chris: labels rushed out new artists to cash in on that void.

**and on the topic of Bieber, who's star is bright enough in its own right now so people often forget, he's part of our cultural landscape due to being who's protoge? Usher's.

Finally, Justin has dated other famous people (namely, Britney). When two super famous people date that gives a tremendous media boost. Usher has not had a high profile relationship with another celeb since Chili. And Tameka was a fiasco that should never have happened, that hurt much more than it helped.

Justin definitely trumps Usher in terms of tabloid attention. Hands down. I do think part of this is Usher's lack of image. He comes across as a kind of normal, regular, sometimes cocky guy... while Justin wants you to KNOW he's a celebrity.

I think Usher's status is somewhat underrated when you consider his longevity and the sales/hits he's amassed over almost twenty years. A friend of mine and I were discussing it some time ago and he's got enough hits to justify a double disc set.

Usher's celebrity profile is undervalued which, again, I chalk up to his lack of image. That said, 18 Top 10 hits including 9 #1's... damn. That's without even going into his Urban-only hits . He's had at least one Hot 100 #1 in the 90's, 00's, and 10's. He's seen trends come and go, invented bandwagons [hello Crunk&B], and came out of his own fads in mint condition while others who followed his lead were left in the dust. I think Justin is in a better place to secure another Hot 100 #1 than Usher is today, but I also think Usher isn't SUCH a has-been that the prospect of him collecting his tenth #1 is completely beyond the realm of possibility.

They've both left a tremendous mark on pop culture, but I just wanted to make a case for Usher since, as many have said, his career as a whole is tremendously underrated.

[Lozzy]

Feb 12, 2013 12:10:23 GMT -5 allow that said:

Chris & Ne-Yo especially: are their introductory singles "Run It" and "So Sick" not modeled after past Usher hits?

Which Usher hit was "So Sick" modeled after? I mean this as a genuine question.

[allow that]

Feb 12, 2013 12:14:04 GMT -5 Lozzy said:

Feb 12, 2013 12:10:23 GMT -5 allow that said:

Chris & Ne-Yo especially: are their introductory singles "Run It" and "So Sick" not modeled after past Usher hits?

Which Usher hit was "So Sick" modeled after? I mean this as a genuine question.

It always reminded me of a slightly sped-up "U Got It Bad." Remember, the Pop and Urban formats shared smashes in those days. Usher was the king of creating R&B slow jams with built-in Pop-friendly choruses that managed to satiate R&B fans and appeal to Pop fans simultaneously. Every label wanted an artist who could walk this line; and that's exactly the intended purpose of "So Sick." I also recall Ne-Yo's second single "When You're Mad" drawing ample comparisons to "U Remind Me."

[nighttime]

I'm gonna say Usher still, but his reputation seems to be depleting with time and Justin seems to be only gaining credibility.

[hidizzyguy]

I'm gonna say Justin has and will have it made because he's white.

[allow that]

Feb 12, 2013 14:03:18 GMT -5 hidizzyguy said:

I'm gonna say Justin because he's white.

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2013 14:03:18 GMT -5 hidizzyguy said:

I'm gonna say Justin has and will have it made because he's white.

I agree, but only to an extent. Both Justin and Usher were heavily influenced by Michael Jackson, and even the younger acts are more likely to cite Michael as an influence than Justin or Usher. The only act people seem to be drawing a direct line to from one of these two is Justin Timberlake to Justin Bieber, but I think that has more to do with two white Justins doing rhythmic/R&B/pop.

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2013 12:10:23 GMT -5 allow that said:

Feb 12, 2013 4:25:58 GMT -5 @cynthiarose said:

because this is Pulse, I have to assume that every poll has an implicit "POP" qualifier attached to it unless told otherwise. So Usher's urban cred means little to nothing unfortunately.

I'm of the school of thought that it means something. I won't even bother to mention Usher's extensive list of R&B #1's because it speaks for itself. I actually DO feel he's had a tremendous impact on artists such as Trey, Chris, and Ne-Yo (not so much Miguel who I see as more of a modern descendant to the D'Angelo vein of R&B). Chris & Ne-Yo especially: are their introductory singles "Run It" and "So Sick" not modeled after past Usher hits?

To the first point, I should have clarified. I meant it means little to nothing to the typical Pulse crowd and so his urban success wouldn't be factored in to the equation. (Ex., if I was having this conversation with a pop only fan and pointed to Climax as an example of his current relevancy I'd either get brushed off with "but on CHR..." or my comment would be ignored completely.) My post, for the most part, is trying to tackle this question from a Pulse perspective because I'm sure that is the perspective from which the question was originally posed.

Justin wasn't completely absent though: he was making movies & dropping the occasional collaboration with The Lonely Planet, which I do think, in fact, extended his cultural reach. His absence definitely left radio thirsty. I don't think many other artists could have carried a mediocre tune like "Carry Out" to the Pop Top 10. Radio did so because they had the opportunity to play new Justin.

True. Again more clarification (man I just made a mess of a first post if I have to keep clarifying things ) - I was only speaking of his musical cultural impact/musical absence, b/c again I think that is how the question was being posed. With that said it isn't completely right of me to dismiss his non-musical ventures because they helped keep him visible as a celebrity and that helps a lot. Had he not been doing much of anything there's a pretty good chance the anticipation for new music wouldn't have been there...it's kind of like my attitude toward certain junk food. If it's not in the house I don't even think about it, but if it is there and you tell me I can't have it, I start to get a bit stir crazy. Out of sight, out of mind, but Justin has been smart to not go out of sight.

Usher tends to 'disappear' when he is in between projects; the other ventures he has are more behind-the-scenes stuff so he doesn't get a lot of attention for it. I do agree that Confessions was the one era where there was immense anticipation - there was a 3+ year gap between Love In This Club and the end of Confessions and that's a pretty long time for a contemporary artist - I just don't think he could have gotten away with a seven-year wait, given his low profile.

With the exception of Bieber's "Boyfriend" which lbr is meant to channel JT intentionally, I'd say he** and Mars are compared to JT due to overall lack of "solo male Pop divas" rather than striking similarities to JT himself. The market for solo pop/R&B males is far more saturated so there's less cause to reach for someone particular to compare to.

Yeah, I don't mean to say JB and Bruno are actually similar to JT, but the fact is they do still get compared to him, and this in itself seems to attribute more power to JT's name than one would think he warrants. Like I said, this is more about the hole he seemingly left on radio...it's not JT's fault that there has been a dearth of male pop artists over the last several years but that lack has really worked to his advantage because he's the last big male pop star anyone can remember. So the media and public tend to give him a whole bunch of credit and cool points, not realizing that we're rewarding him more for what others haven't done more than for what he has. Does that make any sense at all? It makes sense in my head.

That said, I think Usher very much left a hole in the Urban scene during his post-Confessions break. I'll refer back to Ne-Yo and Chris: labels rushed out new artists to cash in on that void.

This is where I think Usher catches the shaft - while JT got probably too much credit for a supposed void, Usher didn't get nearly enough. And I think that is due to the fact that the pop/r&b void was sufficiently filled. There were initial comparisons between Chris/Ne-Yo and Usher but then the two found their footing, sustained success even while Usher himself had material out. So when the demand is met people don't feel such a need to credit the person who first created that demand.

Trey actually dodged a lot of Usher comparisons by virtue of a) just being a sitting duck for two albums before beefing up and taking his shirt off and b) swagger jacking R. Kelly more blatantly, so that's where most of his comparisons lie.

I agree that Miguel is artistically not similar to Usher, but we only know that now because of Kaleidoscope Dream. All I Want Is You was full of Usher-reminiscent songs and in fact Usher even demo'ed a few of them for RvR. Miguel's subsequent move to his current level greatness has almost eradicated any parallels one would dare to make to another current artist, which is exactly as it should be for him; but in the meantime Usher once again doesn't get recognized for the influence he did have on Miguel's earlier style.

**and on the topic of Bieber, who's star is bright enough in its own right now so people often forget, he's part of our cultural landscape due to being who's protoge? Usher's.

This is one of the things I was referring to when talking of Usher's BTS ventures. Like, we know he had a major hand in developing Bieber, but it's not one of those things where every time JB does something great now we think "Oh yeah, Usher's responsible for that!" That is a more indirect cultural influence - and it's one JT will probably never match, as his own foray into signing artists did a whole lot of nothing - but I presume leoapp was strictly referring to JT and Usher's influence through their own projects and not through other people.

I do want to state that I'm not saying Usher's had no cultural impact - in polls like these people tend to take a binary approach to their answers and that's not the way to go. I'm just saying that if you asked a neutral observer they're likely to say Justin has had a larger impact. And it does annoy me to say that, as I love JT's music but IMO Usher's done a lot more.

I will say that for Usher's part a lot of it might be that he is still seen as current - which normally is a great thing, right? But in his case it's holding him back because few think of him as a music veteran. This is why I really want him to do a GH soon. I think Kelly's GH (among other things) has played a major part in the praise and kudos she's been receiving lately because it's reminded people of how long and successful her career has really been. Now Kelly is just at her ten-year mark. So imagine the impression that could be made for someone who is only four years older than she is and has been doing this for twenty years now.

oh, and race does play a part (hey, there's a reason why 'urban' influence tends not to be factored into this...) but other than that parenthetical statement I've tried my best not to go in that direction. It's one of those things that I don't think even needs dissecting b/c it's such a given.

[irice22]

Technically, it should be Usher. But it's Justin Timberlake.

[hidizzyguy]

Feb 12, 2013 14:53:24 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Feb 12, 2013 14:03:18 GMT -5 hidizzyguy said:

I'm gonna say Justin has and will have it made because he's white.

I agree, but only to an extent. Both Justin and Usher were heavily influenced by Michael Jackson, and even the younger acts are more likely to cite Michael as an influence than Justin or Usher. The only act people seem to be drawing a direct line to from one of these two is Justin Timberlake to Justin Bieber, but I think that has more to do with two white Justins doing rhythmic/R&B/pop.

Which is funny because Usher pretty much made Bieber

[leoapp]

I think with Justin doing both pop and urban route from the start of his solo career, he reached bigger audience, and because he was a part of a huge boyband, his fanbase was already huge during boyband era, before his solo career started. So, he seems more popular until now, compared to Usher.
While Usher from the beginning, he used to do urban route only, and focusing on urban audience, only recently he starts to put more pop element on his records. Usher sells more records though.

[allow that]

I'll reply to baby squirrel when I have endurance beyond just a quick post but for now...

Feb 12, 2013 17:17:06 GMT -5 leoapp said:

I think with Justin doing both pop and urban route from the start of his solo career, he reached bigger audience.

While Usher from the beginning, he used to do urban route only, and focusing on urban audience, only recently he starts to put more pop element on his records.

Usher's first pop hit predates Justin's, obviously solo but also with N Sync. Usher's most recent pop hit was from his most recent project. Usher has had considerably more success at Pop than Justin has had at Urban and for a longer period of time. If we're looking strictly at the radio/chart component of their impact, it's Usher by a long way.

[Deleted]

Justin Timberlake

[bornfearless2000]

Can't decide, they are equal

[Joe1240]

Can't decide, they are equal

[Deleted]

Can't decide, they are equal

[elementd5]

Usher.

[allow that]

Ok I think I'm ready! I took the original question to mean overall cultural impact, direct, indirect, the works.

Feb 12, 2013 15:21:58 GMT -5 @cynthiarose said:

Had he not been doing much of anything there's a pretty good chance the anticipation for new music wouldn't have been there...it's kind of like my attitude toward certain junk food. If it's not in the house I don't even think about it, but if it is there and you tell me I can't have it, I start to get a bit stir crazy. Out of sight, out of mind, but Justin has been smart to not go out of sight.

LOL I love the junk food analogy. I definitely feel his in-between appearances helped to guard his seat in Pop music. I ALSO think he couldn't have returned to such hype following 7 years without music unless it was directly following his magnum opus. 7 years following Justified just wouldn't have put his "return" on such a high platform right? I think it's ONLY a level playing field if we compare Justin's long ass break to Usher's post-magnum opus break (Confessions) and not any old Usher waiting period.

there was a 3+ year gap between Love In This Club and the end of Confessions and that's a pretty long time for a contemporary artist - I just don't think he could have gotten away with a seven-year wait, given his low profile.

In Usher's case, I think he could have gotten away with a seven-year wait [or longer] at *Urban* radio. Pop would have depended on the material, but if he came correct (as he did with "Love In This Club") I see no reason as to why his single wouldn't have crossed over. Usher managed to keep up a profile-tease during his hiatus with this base ("I met her at this part in Atlantaaaaa" ;) )

Yeah, I don't mean to say JB and Bruno are actually similar to JT, but the fact is they do still get compared to him, and this in itself seems to attribute more power to JT's name than one would think he warrants. Like I said, this is more about the hole he seemingly left on radio.

Well here's the thing. Did he ACTUALLY influence the sound & direction of Pop radio during his absence? Many are quick to hand over credit for ushering (ha!) in the dancepop craze, but did he? He'd be the very first to distance himself from that movement. I'm inclined to say he closed the gap between Pop & Urban during his hey day rather than being responsible for the dancepop phase that we're still in.

This is where I think Usher catches the shaft - while JT got probably too much credit for a supposed void, Usher didn't get nearly enough. And I think that is due to the fact that the pop/r&b void was sufficiently filled. There were initial comparisons between Chris/Ne-Yo and Usher but then the two found their footing, sustained success even while Usher himself had material out. So when the demand is met people don't feel such a need to credit the person who first created that demand.

I agree with all of this. However, even though Chris/Ne-Yo found their own footing after time I still think it's impressive that back in the day I recall an actual PRESS RELEASE that name dropped Usher in its sales pitch to radio to rally behind this new artist (I forget which one it was, probably Ne-Yo, but I remember it! Grrr wish I could find it).

Trey actually dodged a lot of Usher comparisons by virtue of a) just being a sitting duck for two albums before beefing up and taking his shirt off and b) swagger jacking R. Kelly more blatantly, so that's where most of his comparisons lie.

Trey doesn't have enough faces to draw Usher comparisons. Usher can pull off an R&B love song, a Pop ballad, hip hop soul, a "street" single, a club banger, a sex jam, dancepop, etc. Trey is more the same ol' song and dance.

but in the meantime Usher once again doesn't get recognized for the influence he did have on Miguel's earlier style.

I can see songs like "Quickie," "Girls Like You," and "Hero" having the Usher stamp on them, but "All I Want Is You" for instance is pure 90's NYC soul- one of the few things Mr. Raymond hasn't done.

I do want to state that I'm not saying Usher's had no cultural impact - in polls like these people tend to take a binary approach to their answers and that's not the way to go. I'm just saying that if you asked a neutral observer they're likely to say Justin has had a larger impact. And it does annoy me to say that, as I love JT's music but IMO Usher's done a lot more.

Yes, this. Here's the thing... Justin has more "star power." This is not in question. However, cultural influence and star power are two very different things. Neutral observers are usually blinded by the lights, so it's no surprise Justin is seen as having done so much. Usher is more subtle but his influence is still everywhere.

So who's influenced music more? I feel that an influencer proves to have the ability to push boundaries with something never done before by their contemporaries, let alone themselves. Usher has done this several times throughout his career. I won't say he hasn't dropped the occasional re-thread or anonymous paint-by-numbers single [hello "Scream"] but he has reinvented the wheel throughout his 18 year career and constantly evolved.

Justin though; okay we've heard about two and a quarter albums now. Justified wasn't late to the Neptunes party but it also cashed in on an existing trend while it was at its peak. How could he have NOT broken through? And didn't his debut solo single sound like a mix of his ex-girlfriend's "I'm A Slave 4 U" and his rival's "U Don't Have To Call"? Then there was FS/LS, an album that I absolutely love & deserves the praise is receives, but did Justin really do his OWN thing here? Yea, Nelly Furtado has no relevance now, but she did put out a similar sounding album a few months before Justin. What if Ciara's "Goodies" came out before "Yeah!"? Would Usher receive as much credit? Justin played a leading role in the Timbaland radio era but he did not introduce it.

Now we're at his third album. Part of lasting relevance is keeping an ear to the ground and evolving but does Justin know how to do that? Memo: Do not bring up "Suit & Tie." Do not bring up "Suit & Tie". "Mirrors" shows no growth and lack of knowledge as to what's been happening in music the past few years (I'm not talking about radio trends; I'm talking about searching underground or at least the blogosphere in order to introduce a NEW trend, which is what those with massive cultural influence & proclaimed music lovers are meant to do). Of course he's a star & in a position to return as popular as ever, but time will tell if this album has legs. Even if The 20/20 Experience smashes, I don't see it having lasting influence because it's not bringing anything new to the game.

THAT SAID: I'm seeing many people vote for Justin but not many posts explaining why. I definitely think he's an acceptable answer but I don't think it's so clear-cut that a case shouldn't be made. So tell me guys who've voted: how is Justin MORE influential than Usher? Is it just his star power or is there more?

[dbhmr]

I think it's hard to talk about their cultural impact and not discuss Justin's movie career. Maybe his music would still be enough to give him the edge, but I have a hard time computing Justin's cultural impact – movies = the answer. It's all tied together as part of him, and I think it gives him a clear victory on that alone.