pancakes
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Post by pancakes on Oct 6, 2013 3:35:18 GMT -5
Ranking the novelties... hmm. 1. Gangnam Style 2. Friday 3. The Fox 4. Harlem Shake 5. Work Bitch
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Oct 6, 2013 5:57:54 GMT -5
The youtube rule of billboard is just amazing, song that peaked inside top 10 on rythmic and pop, and were top 10 on itunes like Same love or Girl on fire weren't top 10 on billboard, but this s**t that is not getting airplay and it didn't make the top 10 on itunes, it's number 8. Really great But it's popular through streaming so it counts. People just need to get used to streaming. Things change and the way people listen to music changes. I still think they give that too much weight when they make the chart. I could understand that an atrocity like Harlem Shake was number one, even when never was as popular as Thrift shop, but at least Harlem Shake sales were great. That's not the case here. I don't think that rule is bad per se, in fact it could help new artist, because we know radio is not innovative, and sometimes didn't give a chance to new artist and has some strong prejudices, no matter how good is the single, if you are an American idol, the voice or X factor contestant you will get a lot of hurdles to get your song on the radio (Home is a fantastic example, to song was great, but without the olympic promo, Phillip would never had the hit it was after that, and the song was selling well when it flop the first time). But that rule makes some joke videos and songs a lot more easy to became a hit, that songs that are propely selling on itunes. Of course there's a reason for The fox being in the top 10, but the sensation that i get is that there are a lot of more popular songs that the fox that are way lower on the chart. If Harlem Shake barely reached top 40, there's no way The fox get higher than that. Now is selling well, so i'm ok with the song being high on billboard, but i still think it's overachieving a lot. By this time next year we'll probably totally forget about this time of hits, and people when look the charts will question themselves how the hell that song reach such high position
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Oct 6, 2013 6:25:17 GMT -5
By this time next year we'll probably totally forget about this time of hits, and people when look the charts will question themselves how the hell that song reach such high position I don't get why people say this like it's supposed to have any meaning. A chart covering the period of a week isn't supposed to measure longevity, it's supposed to measure the period of a single week. Whether a song is forgotten a year or a month from now is absolutely irrelevant.
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Oct 6, 2013 6:31:43 GMT -5
By this time next year we'll probably totally forget about this time of hits, and people when look the charts will question themselves how the hell that song reach such high position I don't get why people say this like it's supposed to have any meaning. A chart covering the period of a week isn't supposed to measure longevity, it's supposed to measure the period of a single week. Whether a song is forgotten a year or a month from now is absolutely irrelevant. That's an oppinion. In mine, if a song is forgotten in a short period of time what it's irrelevant it's the song
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Post by Glove Slap on Oct 6, 2013 7:44:19 GMT -5
How is it an opinion? A chart is constructed to measure a certain present, that's a fact. It's not built to measure what will be remembered, that's impossible to do.
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Oct 6, 2013 8:41:40 GMT -5
How is it an opinion? A chart is constructed to measure a certain present, that's a fact. It's not built to measure what will be remembered, that's impossible to do. You are right. Anyway, do you really think The fox is the 8th more popular song in the country, without any airplay and out (last week, this week is in) of the top 10 in sales. Sorry, but i still think the streaming rule is s**t, when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different, but till now, the rule only serve to give the chart embarrasing top 10. Not that sales only charts avoid that (UK has the teletubbies and bob the builder as number ones) but at least that songs had to sell to get there, the fox only needed a funny videos to catch the attention
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icefire9
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Post by icefire9 on Oct 6, 2013 9:10:44 GMT -5
How is it an opinion? A chart is constructed to measure a certain present, that's a fact. It's not built to measure what will be remembered, that's impossible to do. You are right. Anyway, do you really think The fox is the 8th more popular song in the country, without any airplay and out (last week, this week is in) of the top 10 in sales. Yes.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 6, 2013 9:21:39 GMT -5
By this time next year we'll probably totally forget about this time of hits, and people when look the charts will question themselves how the hell that song reach such high position Next year has nothing to do with the charts now. For some reason, people always have that idea that the charts should reflect songs in the long term but that is never the case. The charts reflect a one-week period from the start time to the end time and nothing more. If a song comes along and sells 2 million copies in a week and never sells a single more or gets any airplay outside of that one week, should it not be allowed to chart? No. We've had hundreds, if not thousands, of examples where a song does better in the long run but never in a single individual week. But that's what longer-term charts like year end charts are for. They paint a bigger picture.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 6, 2013 9:26:16 GMT -5
Sorry, but i still think the streaming rule is s**t, when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different, but till now, the rule only serve to give the chart embarrasing top 10. Not that sales only charts avoid that (UK has the teletubbies and bob the builder as number ones) but at least that songs had to sell to get there, the fox only needed a funny videos to catch the attention So your issue isn't with the rule but because you don't like the song, as you say "when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different." Well, then there's no point discussing it further since your opinion of the song is what it is.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Oct 6, 2013 12:56:39 GMT -5
Sorry, but i still think the streaming rule is s**t, when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different, but till now, the rule only serve to give the chart embarrasing top 10. Not that sales only charts avoid that (UK has the teletubbies and bob the builder as number ones) but at least that songs had to sell to get there, the fox only needed a funny videos to catch the attention So your issue isn't with the rule but because you don't like the song, as you say "when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different." Well, then there's no point discussing it further since your opinion of the song is what it is. Why include sales if sales don't favor a "decent" song?
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Oct 6, 2013 12:59:22 GMT -5
Sorry, but i still think the streaming rule is s**t, when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different, but till now, the rule only serve to give the chart embarrasing top 10. Not that sales only charts avoid that (UK has the teletubbies and bob the builder as number ones) but at least that songs had to sell to get there, the fox only needed a funny videos to catch the attention So your issue isn't with the rule but because you don't like the song, as you say "when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different." Well, then there's no point discussing it further since your opinion of the song is what it is. No, it's not my oppinion, it's a fact that the only songs that benefited of the rule till now are Harlem Shake and The fox, and taste is subjective, but not that subjective. I'm not against the rule, my complain is in my oppinion they put too much focus con streaming. The Fox reach 8 on billboard without being top 50 on any chart and without being top 10 on sales
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Oct 6, 2013 13:00:56 GMT -5
So your issue isn't with the rule but because you don't like the song, as you say "when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different." Well, then there's no point discussing it further since your opinion of the song is what it is. Why include sales if sales don't favor a "decent" song? Because people pay for that song, decent or horrid it doesn't matter. You don't have to pay for watching a funny video on youtube.
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icefire9
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Post by icefire9 on Oct 6, 2013 13:04:52 GMT -5
Why include sales if sales don't favor a "decent" song? Because people pay for that song, decent or horrid it doesn't matter. You don't have to pay for watching a funny video on youtube. Listeners don't pay to listen to radio either.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 6, 2013 13:18:19 GMT -5
So your issue isn't with the rule but because you don't like the song, as you say "when that rule favoured a decent song and not some joke, or viral dance it will be different." Well, then there's no point discussing it further since your opinion of the song is what it is. No, it's not my oppinion, it's a fact that the only songs that benefited of the rule till now are Harlem Shake and The fox, and taste is subjective, but not that subjective. Wrecking Ball benefitted from it quite a bit during the first week of its release. Gaga's Applause benefitted from it in its second chart week when it rose 6-4 despite not gaining a lot in airplay and losing sales. I'm sure there have been many other subtle difference that, without the recent change, would be different. Granted, it's only been about 8 months or so since the change so there's not a whole lot to go on. I'm pretty sure OneDirection benefitted from it. Taste is still subjective. Harlem Shake is a legitimate trap/hip-hop/dance song that happened to benefit from an internet meme. As a song, it's as real as One More Time or Sandstorm - both of which were mainly instrumental dance songs that became minor CHR radio hits but are also both very recognizable even still today, as Harlem Shake has become. The Fox is a legitimate joke of a song in the sense that it was made to not be taken seriously. But if the words were serious lyrics, it would be no different than most of the EDM on the radio now. So why should its subject matter, whether serious or a joke, negatively affect its positioning on the chart if people are responding positively to it via streaming and eventually radio and sales? It's impacting radio in a few weeks and has been doing decently on iTunes. So again, other than your own opinion of the song, what's the problem? I'm not against the rule, my complain is in my oppinion they put too much focus con streaming. The Fox reach 8 on billboard without being top 50 on any chart and without being top 10 on sales A song can reach #8 on the Billboard with just sales without being Top 50 on any airplay or streaming chart too. Hypothetically, a song can make #8 on Billboard without any sales or streaming and only airplay too. The general idea of the rule is that a certain proportion, on average, is dedicated to streaming, sales and radio airplay. But should a song get large amounts of either (ie. a song with a TON of sales in one week, or a song with a TON of streaming, or even a song with a TON of radio airplay), it will reflect its overall points. My understanding is that if streaming continues to grow the way it has, Billboard will recalibrate its influence on the chart to be more representative of its impact on a song's popularity. These instances of streaming-only hits are still pretty rare. If they become more regular and streaming begins to show signs of having too much control, Billboard would likely scale back how much influence it has.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Oct 6, 2013 13:34:57 GMT -5
Because people pay for that song, decent or horrid it doesn't matter. You don't have to pay for watching a funny video on youtube. Listeners don't pay to listen to radio either. Actually they pay to do both. Time is money and the advertising is on both of these outlets. So listening to the ads is payment.
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icefire9
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Post by icefire9 on Oct 6, 2013 13:48:38 GMT -5
Wrecking Ball benefitted from it quite a bit during the first week of its release. Gaga's Applause benefitted from it in its second chart week when it rose 6-4 despite not gaining a lot in airplay and losing sales. I'm sure there have been many other subtle difference that, without the recent change, would be different. Granted, it's only been about 8 months or so since the change so there's not a whole lot to go on. I'm pretty sure OneDirection benefitted from it. Hold On We're Coming Home benefitted from it just last week. It's sales dropped out of the top 10 due to the Complete My Album feature on iTunes, but it still hit a new peak of #4 on the Hot 100 because of the release of the video on Youtube.
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Oct 6, 2013 14:11:34 GMT -5
Well, i think you are right, there's absolutely no problem. Yes i find the some incredibly stupid, but i wrote my oppinion and there's no reason to reiterate, because it would end trolling the thread and i don't want that.
I don't know if i don't express myself correctly (english is not my language) but when i said about the streaming benefiting a "decent song" i was not thinking of Miley, Gaga or Drake. I was thinking in a new artist (or someone unknown) making their way to radio and sales after being a success on streaming. Maybe it happen in the future, on sales it worked, Halem Shake was a success on sales and the fox is going to be one, but i don't think radio is going to embrace this kind of songs (and i think there are several reasons for that)
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Diet Soda Pop
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Post by Diet Soda Pop on Oct 6, 2013 14:17:39 GMT -5
Ranking the novelties... hmm. 5. Work Bitch I will gut you like a fish...
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 6, 2013 15:09:02 GMT -5
I don't know if i don't express myself correctly (english is not my language) but when i said about the streaming benefiting a "decent song" i was not thinking of Miley, Gaga or Drake. I was thinking in a new artist (or someone unknown) making their way to radio and sales after being a success on streaming. Maybe it happen in the future, on sales it worked, Halem Shake was a success on sales and the fox is going to be one, but i don't think radio is going to embrace this kind of songs (and i think there are several reasons for that) Therefore I think your issue is still that you're relying on radio airplay (and to an extent sales) to be the only indicator of validity with hit songs and Billboard has moved on from that idea of thinking as have many people in the industry. Songs can be reasonable and genuine hits without having radio being the confirmation or providing validity of that. I think Friday by Rebecca Black was a decent sized "hits". Not in the traditional sense but EVERYBODY knows the song. It was awful, yes, but it was a guilty pleasure for a lot of people who genuinely liked it because of that - knowing full well it was an awfully produced song with terrible lyrics. Likewise, songs may become well known or popular with the help of lyric videos or amateur wedding videos or whatever that radio doesn't ever touch. Marry You by Bruno Mars is an example. I played the music for my sister's wedding a few months ago and someone requested that song, I assume because it was used in a popular wedding video on YouTube a year or two ago. I never heard it on the radio and it definitely wasn't a radio hit but it was popular and well known. Just because radio chooses not to embrace a song, for whatever reason (whether it's due to quality or even due to it being by an unsigned artist with no image or other attachments that are attractive to big radio companies), that doesn't mean the song can't be considered a legitimate hit or that it can't reach a measurable level of popularity. That's what the streaming component of the Hot 100 is doing now. It's capturing that area that was previously not captured before. Had it been in place years ago, Friday would have been a huge hit (maybe #1), Marry You by Bruno Mars probably would have been a quick Top 10 hit, and many other examples. The change with including streaming is still novel for us so it still takes some getting used to when these novelty songs that benefit only from streaming do well but in time, it'll be normal enough that songs like these will be interesting occasional additions rather than annoyances on account of faulty chart tabulations and rules.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Oct 6, 2013 15:27:53 GMT -5
Anyway, do you really think The fox is the 8th more popular song in the country, without any airplay and out (last week, this week is in) of the top 10 in sales. Yes yes yes in my personal opinion. My God, I cannot even walk outside without hearing the song or having someone talk about it or reference it. I see it mentioned more than Roar, Wrecking Ball, Work Bitch, and Applause combined. If I had no idea how the charts worked I would think it was THE most popular song in the country right now. No chart is perfect and occasionally there are moments where I feel like the formula doesn't quite work, but this song being top 10 does not seem like one of them. On another note, personally I like some oddball hits on the charts. I mean, we tend to have the same people doing well and a lot of familiar faces. I like faster moving charts and new faces and genres getting a chance. I know that is a personal preference though.
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on Oct 7, 2013 10:55:37 GMT -5
Therefore I think your issue is still that you're relying on radio airplay (and to an extent sales) to be the only indicator of validity with hit songs and Billboard has moved on from that idea of thinking as have many people in the industry. Songs can be reasonable and genuine hits without having radio being the confirmation or providing validity of that. Yeah, I'm one of those people who have moved on from that idea. I used to think airplay was the only thing that mattered. In fact, I probably argued that on this board 7 or 8 years ago. Now, though, everyone watches YouTube, and a lot of people buy songs on iTunes or Amazon. Every song that is on the radio can also be viewed on YouTube, and the vast majority of them can be purchased on iTunes. It seems wrong to discount YouTube streams if that is the way a large portion of people consumes music.
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on Oct 7, 2013 11:00:03 GMT -5
Up to 11 stations giving significant airplay (7+ spins a week) now.
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Robert J
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Post by Robert J on Oct 8, 2013 4:54:20 GMT -5
This is a legitimately brilliant pop song. Yes, the lyrics are blatantly ridiculous, but they've connected with the audience and the beat is sick. By those qualifications, it's no different from "Applause."
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Oct 9, 2013 12:33:22 GMT -5
7 adds this week.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Oct 9, 2013 12:50:58 GMT -5
#6 on the Hot 100 this week.
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Post by Juan Carlos on Oct 11, 2013 12:09:42 GMT -5
THURSDAY 10/10 UPDATE:
CHR/Pop: 75 57 YLVIS The Fox 294 102 192 1.623
+ 20 Spins + 7 Bullet + 0.093 Audience
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Oct 12, 2013 1:15:54 GMT -5
Number 5 on itunes.
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rfucom
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Post by rfucom on Oct 12, 2013 11:37:32 GMT -5
why is sudden iTunes surge again? Weekend effect?
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Oct 12, 2013 11:48:02 GMT -5
why is sudden iTunes surge again? Weekend effect? Radio airplay is increasing also.
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rfucom
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Post by rfucom on Oct 12, 2013 11:59:11 GMT -5
why is sudden iTunes surge again? Weekend effect? Radio airplay is increasing also. it's not increasing like a huge increase for radio. There's something boost that happened IMO. Maybe weeken effect again.
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