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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Apr 26, 2014 23:20:18 GMT -5
There are plenty of +10 million sellers who nowadays have no cultural relevance whatsoever and are somewhere collecting dust in their owners basements. And then there are some albums who have barely went plantinum and whose anniversaries are still celebrated today, and passed on to later generations. Sales are just one piece of cake. They don't give you a special status and respect, nor will they guarantee you a continued relevance and influence. It's been almost a 5 years since Beyonce's last Top 10 hit on pop radio and that didn't affect her career and her status in any kind of way. She's ''overshadowed'' on radio, but her presence in music industry still puts other girls to shame. Put her in the same room, same stage, same show with other girls and watch. You have to look at the bigger picture. Her persona has only gotten 10x times bigger and she's still on pedestal. When you want to tribute her, you don't need to show her Billboard sales or facebook and instagram likes to prove/justify your point. Most of Beyonce's hits aren't all that remarkable, but Rihanna's and Katy Perry's are even less, no matter how numerous and how big they seem statistically-wise right now. They're faceless and trend-chasing, and they will be lucky if one of them is remembered or considered a classic in 10 or 15 years from now. Now to end this, hits come and go. No one, absolutely no one is immune to that cycle. At some point in your career, they'll dry. And that's when true stars shine. Some former Billboard darlings from pre-2000's nowadays can't fill 5k theatres or tour at all for that matter. It's like the earth had swallowed them up, and they don't exist, apart from occasional nostalgia occasions. Or on chairs of some tacky talent shows. And then there are some like Tina Turner (how many Billboard #1 hits did this woman legend have?) who break tour records and put newcomers to shame in their 60's. And whose talent (and relevance and influence) is still celebrated today. I Kissed A Girl and Teenage Dream album and single will be remembered years from now.
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no apologist
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Post by no apologist on Apr 27, 2014 10:50:42 GMT -5
What's that got to do with her success compared to her peers, though? We're not denying her mega popularity, but when you put her up against a few of her peers, she is overrated. When people bring up her achievements 30 yrs from now, who's gonna care about all that? Mariah has sold over 200+ million albums, but no one cares. They do regard her 18 #1s time and time again, though. Every diva reaches their peak, ever single one. The age seems to be about 40 Y.O. Beyonce got about another what?! 5 or 6 years? Well, her lack of success at POP radio is already starting to reflect that. Prince would arguably fall into the same category...but out of the current crop of female artists, who is selling more albums than Beyonce other than Taylor Swift right now? Even Katy Perry sold far less than Bey has and she had two massive #1 singles and hundreds of millions in audience impressions every week. Beyonce is a pop star selling records without a pop hit. I'd rather get top 10 hits than big album sells. In the end, who really cares about a specific album sales unless it's Thriller? LOL But like I said, Beyonce is still not that far ahead of her peers to be called the queen of anything. Maybe the queen of R&B, but in a catholic sense? Nah.
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Post by surfy on Apr 27, 2014 12:51:41 GMT -5
Success is success, and I'm sure that if you got a hit album, you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining so....
And many MANY people care about artists having great albums that they can listen to over and over. (21, Speak Now, Red, BEYONCE, Pure Heroine, +) Just to name a few recent ones... Maybe if artists all made great albums, people would start giving a s**t about more of them, but for now they don't and only the great ones see big success on the Billboard 200. So you're argument is invalid...
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Post by mluv on Apr 27, 2014 13:27:26 GMT -5
Well Beyonce, not Rihanna or Katy Perry or any number of pop singers, is the one on the cover of Time Magazine as one of the most influential people. She's a one name music icon like Madonna & Cher that have transcended their musical genre. She's a celebrity for just being who she is more than for the music she sells. Her every move, hairstyle change, clothes she's wearing or not is scrutinized. She's considered a queen and like most royalty (witness Kate & Harry) she doesn't have to do a heck of a lot to be admired and talked about. Single sales are meaningless to her title. No matter how many singles Katy Perry sells, she has not achieved that status.
ETA: On a more practical note, if you're paying any attention whatsoever to the state of music today, you'd realize it's totally, totally ridiculous to compare past sales of anyone to current sales of today. What Mariah Carey sold years ago is irrelevant to today's music world where people are streaming their music rather than downloading it. Sales is no longer the big determinant on who's truly number one in music today.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 13:59:35 GMT -5
I consider myself to be a casual Beyoncé fan at best, but she transcends her peers in basically every way imaginable. Rihanna, Katy, Taylor, etc might sell more singles and have bigger radio hits, but they pale in comparison to Bey's overall success/impact. Bey was frontwoman of won of Pop's most successful girl groups, and she still managed to become bigger than them. She's not just a pop star who churns out forgettable radio hits to stay relevant...she's a businesswoman, dancer, singer and a pretty damn amazing performer who knows how to get people talking. She doesn't need radio hits or album sales; she's bigger than all of those things. IMO, artists like Beyoncé don't come along often; she's in a league of her own, album sales and singles be damned.
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¤ Matthea ¤
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Post by ¤ Matthea ¤ on Apr 27, 2014 15:31:51 GMT -5
Well, I don't really agree that Beyonce is better than Katy Perry or Rihanna. She is different, but not necessarily better.
They all have great careers, they are all making money, they will all be remembered 20 years from now.
As far as pop hits singles go ... Yes, that's the one weakness of Queen Beyonce. I think her image is a bit too "mature" and she's been around for way longer (DC, solo), so she is basically regarded as older generation than Riri or Katy. I guess she will have to make do with Urban hits. A huge pop hit or two would be a cherry on top of a successful era, though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 16:59:23 GMT -5
I think people try and make up for what might be considered overhyping Bey with SEVERELY undervaluing her catalogue and career. First of all, people act like Destiny's Child does not count in terms of her legacy but at the end of the day, she carried one of the most successful girl groups of all time on her back for almost 10 years. DC's second album went 8x Platinum and Say My Name, Survivor and Bills Bills Bills will likely be remembered as classic records. Even if she never made a solo album, Beyonce would be a legend for her work with Destiny's Child. Then to add in her first three eras where she was consistently scoring hit after hit after hit including veritable classics Crazy in Love, Irreplaceable, Single Ladies and arguably Halo. And we aren't even considering the heaps of critical acclaim she's amassed, the 17 (!!!!) Grammys she has won, her being lauded as the performer of her generation and the fact that she is already being listed as a major influence on up and coming R&B AND pop artists despite still being a force to be reckoned with as a current star. I don't even understand how you can try and argue that 4 was a flop era when she made no efforts to capitalize on radio trends (besides maybe with RTW) and still managed to score a top 20 hit with an old school R&B song and sold more than Rihanna who experienced one of the biggest hits of her career. 4 is not going to go down in history as a commercial failure OR a disappointment for Beyonce as an artist. It will likely be regarded as the album in which she stopped trying to chase radio hits and commercial trends and just release music that she wanted to. And still sold more than her peers.
Rihanna and Katy Perry both have dozens of technical radio hits but, like with every artist, only a few of them will stand up over time. That's just how it goes. And after people forget about the bulk of those radio hits, the bulk of which are already failing to stand up the test of time, what is left to remember about them? Rihanna will have her status as a fashion icon and her personal life. Katy will have the Teenage Dream album era. Neither of them compare in any way to the accomplishments that Beyonce has experienced and the way that she is regarded as a musician and celebrity by her peers and the GP. Rihanna and Katy, regardless of how their hits look to people who follow the charts, will be looked at just like they are now: as throwaway pop.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Apr 27, 2014 20:31:01 GMT -5
The fact of the matter is she doesn't need any hit singles from this album at this point, and never did. The album sold a million copies with no hit singles and no promo besides her name. The fact that Drunk In Love caught on as a pop single was just icing on the cake. The album is still selling decently, and the tour is obviously a huge success.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Apr 28, 2014 0:04:50 GMT -5
Success is success, and I'm sure that if you got a hit album, you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining so.... And many MANY people care about artists having great albums that they can listen to over and over. (21, Speak Now, Red, BEYONCE, Pure Heroine, +) Just to name a few recent ones... Maybe if artists all made great albums, people would start giving a s**t about more of them, but for now they don't and only the great ones see big success on the Billboard 200. So you're argument is invalid... Nope. That is not the market we live in. How many great albums went unnoticed? Who has the time to listen to all of them? Who likes every single song off an album enough to buy each one ala carte? This is the reality we live in. If you want to succeed in this market you have to allow people to purchase the amount of product from you they want to or they dont purchase at all and instead download for free. On some level you have to play the game. Ok if you want to ignore the pop radio games etc... But dont punish people who are willing to buy any of your product at all. If they only like one song thats all they should have to purchase....and its likely thats all they will purchase...or risk selling them nothing and they download the material for free...Bey isnt prepared to sue fans so she should realize that consumers should purchase only the songs they like and can afford to purchase.
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no apologist
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Post by no apologist on Apr 28, 2014 7:09:36 GMT -5
Success is success, and I'm sure that if you got a hit album, you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining so.... And many MANY people care about artists having great albums that they can listen to over and over. (21, Speak Now, Red, BEYONCE, Pure Heroine, +) Just to name a few recent ones... Maybe if artists all made great albums, people would start giving a s**t about more of them, but for now they don't and only the great ones see big success on the Billboard 200. So you're argument is invalid... You come off very young to me, so I'm going to give you a pass and say nothing at all. Toodles.
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Post by Tea-why on Apr 28, 2014 8:18:14 GMT -5
Love this. I have no idea idea how this will do. Fingers crossed though.
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Post by tinawina on Apr 28, 2014 9:45:45 GMT -5
The music industry has changed so much over the past few years that I think the real name of the game right now is to figure out how to make big profits for everyone involved. Nobody sells like they used to, and even hit songs don't make that much profit unless they are huge sellers.
Everybody has to figure out how their mojo works in this new market. Some do it with multiple huge singles. Some kill on tour. Some sell lots of albums. Some get many endorsements. Some people license songs up the wazoo. Some do spin-off products (clothing, makeup, perfume, etc) and/or sell a ton of merchandising. Some do a combo of some or all of them.
Arguing which way counts more is pointless to me. The people in control don't care how the money is made as long as they are counting checks. The average person doesn't know chart position or sales, they just know if they hear someone's songs a lot or see them in the media all the time.
Beyonce has been around for YEARS making everyone around her richer than sin. She draws from every single pot of cash out there in entertainment and almost all of them in a big way. She's made tons of money consistently for years. I do think her days as a pop hitmaker are mostly behind her, and if anything she is pioneering how to keep the checks coming high level without pop radio. So far she's doing fine. It will be interesting to see what she tries next.
But the idea she's not near the top of the heap in the modern era? I mean she's been around for something like 15 years and she never left the top in money generation! Her peers are Britney Spears, Usher and maybe Timberlake. Katy and Rihanna and Gaga haven't been around long enough yet. Time will tell.
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Post by Kurt on Apr 28, 2014 13:40:23 GMT -5
For what it's worth, the latest Columbia promo email (Monday) still says "Partition" is next for pop. *shrug* We'll see if it changes next week - wouldn't really surprise me. Now it lists both.
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Post by Libra on Apr 28, 2014 13:44:04 GMT -5
^
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Post by Lahey's Lucky Star on Apr 28, 2014 13:50:06 GMT -5
Absolute MESS. They're treating this like the Sasha Fierce era.
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Post by Juan Carlos on Apr 29, 2014 14:46:10 GMT -5
Under Cool New Music via AllAccess.
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Post by divasummer on Apr 29, 2014 15:26:24 GMT -5
Cd sales still make more money than single sales. I'm assuming Beyonce and company are very happy with their return right now. Plus Drunk In Love sold over a million in digital sales so far. Beyonce's doing just fine with just her music. Lol.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Apr 29, 2014 15:43:19 GMT -5
I'm sure they'll be much happier about a sold out stadium tour than a radio hit.
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Post by surfy on Apr 29, 2014 17:22:13 GMT -5
It's not like this is a flop era, sure XO could be called a flop, but it went top 20 on pop! Drunk In Love also did this and they made it to #2 on the Hot 100!!!! Partition also made it to the top 40 on the Hot 100, so it's also a hit! Not to mention the massive sales of the album, so this is by no means a flop era!!
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Post by Hussy on Apr 29, 2014 17:28:01 GMT -5
this era is NO flop in any means neither album sales (obviously) nor singles as well
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lookinghot
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Post by lookinghot on Apr 29, 2014 17:40:35 GMT -5
Where did xo peak on hot 100
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Post by Kurt on May 14, 2014 14:02:21 GMT -5
Goes for adds June 3, according to FMQB.
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lookinghot
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Post by lookinghot on May 14, 2014 15:29:58 GMT -5
Hallelujah
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Post by Live Your Life on May 14, 2014 16:00:16 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been commented on, but how did no one, before release, realize she says "Shine a light on whatever's wors t?"
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on May 14, 2014 16:16:40 GMT -5
What's wrong with that?
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 14, 2014 16:54:49 GMT -5
We're judging Beyonce as if she's the same as Katy, which is silly. At this point in her career, Beyonce is simply on another echelon than the other pop girls. She doesn't need to rely on quick lil singles to sell albums, sell out stadiums and further her brand. She is a self-propelling brand, a cultural icon, a social media meme unto herself. She's earned the right to skip the talk show/award show promo circuit that all the basics need to rely on. No one's going to remember that DIL peaked at #13 on pop or that Partition didn't go top 20. Beyonce, like Madonna, is simply bigger than menial chart success.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 14, 2014 17:31:14 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been commented on, but how did no one, before release, realize she says "Shine a light on whatever's wors t?" Bring attention to whatever's worse?
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 15, 2014 13:08:19 GMT -5
This is shaping up to be another flop. An era that started so promising is now officially underwater. It goes to show that NO ONE can survive without promo - not even the Queen.
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Post by NeRD on May 15, 2014 13:16:02 GMT -5
This is shaping up to be another flop. An era that started so promising is now officially underwater. It goes to show that NO ONE can survive without promo - not even the Queen. What was the other flop? XO went Top 20, DIL smashed across all of her core formats and Partition wasn't even sent to Pop radio, but went #1 on Urban and Top 5(?) on Rhythmic. Where is the flop ???
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 15, 2014 13:19:43 GMT -5
This is shaping up to be another flop. An era that started so promising is now officially underwater. It goes to show that NO ONE can survive without promo - not even the Queen. What was the other flop? XO went Top 20, DIL smashed across all of her core formats and Partition wasn't even sent to Pop radio, but went #1 on Urban and Top 5(?) on Rhythmic. Where is the flop ??? Girl don't act like pop wouldn't have JUMPED on Partition if it was smashing in sales/streaming (fyi it flopped on both measures). Single Ladies never got an adds date. The BEYONCE era has been an album sales smash, an urban radio smash, and a pop underperformer/flop: XO flopped at pop DIL underperformed at pop (#13) Partition flopped at pop Pretty Hurts - not looking great The truth of the matter is that since the 4 era Beyonce's core format has been urban/rhythmic - she's not really seen as a pop artist anymore.
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