Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 13:09:44 GMT -5
He latched on to what Cynthia said above about me "retreating" from my accusation of him after Cynthia said it LOL. Cynthia's post weighing you and I against each other and my player analysis post came all of 26 seconds apart. How could I have "latched on to" what she said with that kind of time difference? This post, in particular, I find very strange: LOL. I've played all of ONE full game before this (not counting the disastrous bastard game from last year). How on earth could I have developed a playing style to the point of having a basis for comparing how I'm playing now to "how I usually play"? Not really that strange. I don't keep track of who plays what and with it being almost a year since we last played, I don't really remember most people's method of gameplay so I wasn't completely sure whether you had a distinct style that others might remember whereas I didn't. LOL again! You say you don't remember most people's method of gameplay, yet my seeming too eager to you makes my play seem strange to you? Like...what? He also seems to be a bit hyper and ready for the game to move faster than it should, which suggests scum who are trying to lynch a townie quickly. This game is going to move faster than usual, period. Games usually allot closer to 5 RL days for each game Day, don't they? Whereas here, we only have 3. Since we have less time to work with, wouldn't that heighten our need to use time more effectively? For that matter, you said earlier that you were "out for the night", yet you came back to post quite a bit more in addition to the line I quote from you here. Hmmmmmmmm.
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 13:23:11 GMT -5
Vote: Max. You were my other top suspicion, and if anything, you haven't helped your case. Also, right now, with under 10 hours left, I'm the only real lynch option ( currently L-2!) which gives Scum too much room to take cover in - by any of these ways: - Dividing their team amongst my lynch wagon and among other people.
- Managing to stay completely off my wagon (easier to do with only 5 votes on me and reaching majority not being a necessity).
- Or even, by going all in on my wagon and hoping that Town doesn't pick up on it (I think this would be the most difficult, but experienced players could, arguably, pull this off).
This brings mike/Max to 3 votes, and the only other person with multiple votes against them right now. With this little time, it very likely comes down to either of us.
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Post by Zeebz on Jun 11, 2015 13:40:54 GMT -5
This is late and not as detailed as I would prefer but here: Baron - I can usually never really read Baron but here I have a slight town lean on him. He seems willing to answer questions and such despite the fact that he's busy, but I suppose I just need to hear more from him. Cynthia - I'm leaning town on her. Her mentioning of scum's distancing/linking themselves doesn't seem like something that scum would say. She was also one of the first to do a proper analysis of everyone and she answered Drag's questions really soon. This has all helped to push discussion. She seems like she has town's best interests in mind. Daryl - New player finding his way, null read. Drag - I'm getting a town vibe from Drag as he's tried to push discussion with his questions (which effectively ended RVS). He seems to really care about pushing discussion also as he tried to remind people to answer the questions and thus to provide input. Granted I had already answered them, but the fact that he didn't catch my post at first doesn't strike me as a scum tell but simply as a common mistake. He's also emphasized deadlines (i.e. 24 hours for answering questions) which just seems productive and overall he seems like he genuinely wants to aid town's game. Josh - He's busy with health issues but he provides input when it's needed and he hasn't been totally absent from the game. I'm leaning town on him. Kunt - Town read. He's tried to push discussion, he's called players out on their faulty logic, and seems to have town's best interests in mind. Libra - He seems eager to aid town's game but strange voting logic throws me off. His reasoning for voting Drag does seem a little odd - Drag's overlooking of my question answers seems like a common mistake to me. I also don't really see his mentioning of my "lack" of answers and his reasoning for asking the questions that he did to be suspicious but maybe I'm missing something? His vote for Popstop earlier also seemed far-fetched. It was a backstory for fun during RVS and I don't see how it's suspicious that he put a lot of effort into it. I'm torn, though, as he was willing to provide his thoughts on everyone and to do summaries. Also the fact that he was willing to reconsider his vote on Popstop seems like he's willing to think through his decisions and to correct his errors. I'm leaning null/scum on him. I'm wary about voting for him because he's at L-2 now. Max - Active in the thread but I'm confused about how to read him. His reaction when challenged by Kunt isn't really sitting well with me. It seems like he just wants to go along with the crowd in that respect and to force a town lynch. Oh, and he just now voted Libra so I'm not sure about what to think? Slight scum read. Mikey - Same as Daryl. Popstop - I'm getting a null/town read on Popstop. His answer to Drag's first question (he said that in absence of suspicion of anyone he would rather vote out someone who isn't helpful to town) seems like something town would say. He's also helped to push us out of RVS as he's reminded everyone that we're moving away from it. Surf - Not really present to get a read on. Zebra - Summary: Leaning Town: Cynthia, Kunt, Zebra, Josh, Popstop, Drag Unsure: Baron, Mikey, Daryl, Surf Leaning Scum: Max, Libra (at least one of them) I'm definitely on the fence with Max/Libra. I think at least one is scum. They're both suspicious to me and I'm willing to vote for either one, but again I'm wary about voting for Libra because he's at L-2. For now vote: Max.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jun 11, 2015 13:47:07 GMT -5
LOL again! You say you don't remember most people's method of gameplay, yet my seeming too eager to you makes my play seem strange to you? Like...what? *sigh* Because even if I don't remember *specifics* of specific people's gameplay, I am at the very least aware that when someone (in a general sense) acts eager to get out of RVS before it even starts that it seemed strange to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 14:05:19 GMT -5
Max has aroused suspicion with a few of his actions but I still feel more strongly about Libra being scum so I'm keeping my vote on him. @mod Az Paynter can you give us an updated vote count?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 14:09:21 GMT -5
What I don't like about Libra's play right now isn't so much the pushiness to get out of RVS, but how weird his arguments are. Normally this would strike me an inexperience and not scummy per se, but he's under a lot of pressure right now and it kind of seems like he's trying to throw a lot of shit at the wall until something sticks. First the rando one-off Drag thing, then moving to the only other player under scrutiny (which, tbh, feels kind of easy for D1 if there's only two we're looking at... but it's a little late for that lol). In hindsight, we should've prodded inactives more-- I know y'all hate it, but play the game lol.
Anyway, I agree with Zebra-- don't want to put Libra at L-1 and risk a rogue hammer (and I'm still just as comfortable sitting on Max), but if it comes to it then I share Cynthia's sentiment and have intent to hammer provided his last line of self-defense isn't a strong one.
That said, something about Zebra saying "I don't want to put Libra at L-1" and FoSing him, but bothering to move his vote to the other suspect at all instead of just letting it sit and waiting out for further discussion strikes me as odd for some reason. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but maybe someone else can?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jun 11, 2015 14:12:28 GMT -5
Hopefully I've aroused more than that tho
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 14:12:39 GMT -5
Because even if I don't remember *specifics* of specific people's gameplay, I am at the very least aware that when someone (in a general sense) acts eager to get out of RVS before it even starts that it seemed strange to me. Are you referring to this, from Page 4? Actually Unvote: josh because with our first of three RL days now gone, we ought to start transitioning to serious gameplay now. This was me keeping an eye on the clock. We were obviously going to have less time with RVS than we otherwise might, and it's not like we barely saw any RVS action anyway - still roughly half the thread is RVS. I didn't want to see us overdo it for worry of wasting time needlessly.
If this isn't what you're referring to, then what are you referring to?
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Jun 11, 2015 14:16:30 GMT -5
They're really going in on Marie now. I can hear them, she's screaming for heads. Demanding a guillotine. I think some of them are defending her but the others are ganging up. I wish I could get closer to hear what they were saying but I don't want them to find me.
I wish they'd unlock the doors already...Day 1 ContinuesDeadline has been set for 06.11.2015 11:59PM EDTIt takes 7/12 votes to lynch! Day One: Vote Count 5Daryl: Popstop Kunt: Daryl Libra: Josh, Mikey, Drag, Baron, Mike Mike: Kunt, Cynthia, Libra, Zebra Not Voting: Surfboardt
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 14:20:17 GMT -5
That said, something about Zebra saying "I don't want to put Libra at L-1" and FoSing him, but bothering to move his vote to the other suspect at all instead of just letting it sit and waiting out for further discussion strikes me as odd for some reason. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but maybe someone else can? If Libra and Zebra (ok that's cute!) were scum mates this would be Zebra 'distancing' himself but trying to shift the bandwagon to the one other player that has one. I'm thinking that is what might be bothering you? Because yeah, he could have left his vote where it is until later. With that said this would only be worth looking into if Libra flipped scum, or Mike flipped town, so it's not an action we can even usefully ponder until Day 2.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 14:23:24 GMT -5
correction: not an action we can even usefully ponder until Day 2, assuming our lynch is Max or Libra. There's still theoretically enough time to vote someone else other than those two, it just doesn't seem like that is going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 14:27:58 GMT -5
correction: not an action we can even usefully ponder until Day 2, assuming our lynch is Max or Libra. There's still theoretically enough time to vote someone else other than those two, it just doesn't seem like that is going to happen. Theoretically, but I don't think now is the time to switch targets. That's usually a bad idea and leaves people grasping at straws. It was one of those Xiivisms or whatever. And yeah, I think that's what it is. I'm in this weird headspace where I think they're both scum but know they can't be simultaneously (well, I guess they could-- but this would be the most elaborate buffering I've ever seen). I guess I'm looking for connections that aren't there yet for both parties.
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 14:39:41 GMT -5
I guess I'm looking for connections that aren't there yet for both parties. I wonder if this might help any. If I were to flip Scum, who would seem to be likely teammates? If Max were to flip Scum, who would seem to be likely teammates? If both of us were to eventually flip Scum, who else would seem likely to be a teammate? (If anyone?) If neither of us ended up flipping Scum, then who's out there that would seem likely to? You don't have to actually answer these in here if you think this would give Scum too much of a heads-up. But with talk of "connections" and "distancing"...shouldn't at least two scum eventually be tie-able to each other?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jun 11, 2015 14:51:25 GMT -5
I had a reply to Libra's question above typed up until my computer fucked off and twenty minutes later I'm still waiting for it to reboot and it's not even halfway there yet (yes it's a MacBook and yes it's now slower than any PC I've ever owned so I'm pissed). Anyway, the gist of what I was going to say was that my point about you (libra) being eager is moot at this point. I've moved on from it admitting that there's nothing to it and that I was in the wrong with it, but you've latched on to it for some reason. I could understand if that was my only reason for focusing on you but it isn't and now at this point, you using it against me is yet another thing you're doing that to me makes it look like you're grasping at straws, like you did with popstop and drag. You had your vote on drag even after initially FOSing me and again after others had votes on me but only just recently did you move your vote over to me. Convenience maybe?
Anyway, I agree that switching targets is bad at this point with just hours left to D1. Unless we had near 100% evidence saying otherwise, if we were to switch to someone else who flipped down, we'd just return our focus back to Libra and myself for day 2 with little accomplished other than what we'd learn through a night kill.
Obviously I'm going to suggest we lynch Libra because I know I'm town and I'd rather not have us lose a number now and while I wouldn't say I'm 100% sure on Libra being scum, he is the most likely candidate to me so far, enough that I'm comfortable leaving my vote on him. However if lynching me can somehow help town by, at the very least, removing suspicion from me and allowing everyone to refocus on finding an actual scum without the distraction I'm bringing than I do support that decision.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 15:02:09 GMT -5
I guess I'm looking for connections that aren't there yet for both parties. I wonder if this might help any. If I were to flip Scum, who would seem to be likely teammates? If Max were to flip Scum, who would seem to be likely teammates? If both of us were to eventually flip Scum, who else would seem likely to be a teammate? (If anyone?) If neither of us ended up flipping Scum, then who's out there that would seem likely to? You don't have to actually answer these in here if you think this would give Scum too much of a heads-up. But with talk of "connections" and "distancing"...shouldn't at least two scum eventually be tie-able to each other?Depends on whether or not the hypothetical scum target would end up being indie or otherwise. If they flip indie, then all ties would kind of be null at that point. -- If you were scum, I'd guess Zebra is your partner and Drag is confirmed town. Max would look the part of indie (provided you flip as mafia), which would actually be ideal since it gives us a lot to talk about. I would also guess that josh and Mikey aren't aligned with you, because if they were you'd have told them to switch it up. Josh especially would look good here for firmly staying on your lynch. If you're lynched and flip mafia-scum, it'd be good to look at people who waited or weren't on the lynch at all. Max is a bit weirder. I'd have to read back through the thread, because he hasn't really said much and I don't think anyone's said much about him that wasn't universally negative-- that I've noticed, anyway. I would assume that, if he is scum, he's not aligned with Cynthia or you, or Zebra. If he's lynched and flips mafia-scum, then same rules apply as above. If both of you are scum, then I have no fucking idea who a hypothetical third team-mate is because I'm assuming the two of you aren't a team, as I already stated, so that would throw me for a fucking loop. There's also the possibility that you two would be a two-man team with a third indie, so this question is just... really pointless and any answer I could give would be founded on a fuckton of nothing. If the two of you don't flip scum (or one is the hypothetical indie), then I definitely want to go back and look at some of the players who are coasting: Daryl, Green Baron, Zebra, Mikey, and josh. popstop and Surf are on LOA, so they're total wild cards right now. It'd also be worth looking at who was most aggressive when it came to your respective lynchings-- which would be each other, ironically lmfao. If you're both town, then scum is loving this smoke screen right now. And lol, I think it's more beneficial to provide town with any possible insight than to withhold information for fear of scum. Well, other than your role, lmao. Not afraid to answer any questions.
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 15:45:17 GMT -5
And lol, I think it's more beneficial to provide town with any possible insight than to withhold information for fear of scum. Well, other than your role, lmao. These are both good points - for Daryl the Beryl and Mikey, the latter is because role-claiming is bad without a specific need to. You draw attention to yourself that way, and if you're lying, then whoever is actually the role you're claiming will counterclaim you. Or, if you're Vanilla (meaning you have no special game abilities), then if you claim that then that gives Scum less reason to Night-Kill you, and a better chance of Night-Killing a Townie with an actual ability. As to the former - I was probably overly cautious in saying that. It's tough for me to distinguish what's specifically beneficial for Town and not for Scum, or vice-versa, or what can benefit both to whatever degree, since I was Scum (trying to look Town, obv) in my last game and in this game I really am Town. Anyways... If we assume that neither popstop nor Surf are going to pop in before midnight, then chances are I'm going to be the lynch unless someone switches off of me. Only those two and Daryl don't have their votes on either me or Max. Even if Daryl votes Max, it's a 5-5 tie, and I lose the tiebreaker since I was up to 5 votes first. ( Rule #8) On that note, consider carefully who's on whose wagon, with respect to their contributions to this game.
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 16:34:53 GMT -5
Actually...waiiit a minute.
Daryl hasn't posted here in over 24 hours (@mod: Shouldn't he have been prodded by now?, and he's made lots of Pulse posts since then. (If you check his recent posts, you have to go all the way to Page 7 to find his latest Mafia post.
This, to me, smacks of being an active non-contributor. I get being new, but shouldn't new players eventually be in here with some regularity so they can figure things out?
Mikey, by comparison, does not show this same sign of active non-contribution.
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 16:36:40 GMT -5
^ His latest Mafia post is only the 11th post down Page 1 among all recent posts.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Jun 11, 2015 16:40:20 GMT -5
#MOD: Daryl has been prodded.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 11, 2015 17:21:11 GMT -5
For that matter, you said earlier that you were "out for the night", yet you came back to post quite a bit more in addition to the line I quote from you here. Hmmmmmmmm. Yes, I was out for the night because I was studying from my test. When I finished, I made one quick post that you linked to above and then fell asleep. I also didn't post anything between the post where I said I was going to be out and the post where I made some quick analyses. Really feel like you're grasping at straws here.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 11, 2015 17:37:33 GMT -5
Actually...waiiit a minute. Daryl hasn't posted here in over 24 hours ( @mod: Shouldn't he have been prodded by now?, and he's made lots of Pulse posts since then. (If you check his recent posts, you have to go all the way to Page 7 to find his latest Mafia post. This, to me, smacks of being an active non-contributor. I get being new, but shouldn't new players eventually be in here with some regularity so they can figure things out? Unrelated, but remember my first game? I did dick all the first few days and flipped town in the end. Daryl strikes me more as someone who's more apathetic, not scummy, and doesn't realize that you kind of have to regularly check the game in order to play well... something I also failed to understand at first. Daryl the Beryl
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 17:52:52 GMT -5
Actually...waiiit a minute. Daryl hasn't posted here in over 24 hours ( @mod: Shouldn't he have been prodded by now?, and he's made lots of Pulse posts since then. (If you check his recent posts, you have to go all the way to Page 7 to find his latest Mafia post. This, to me, smacks of being an active non-contributor. I get being new, but shouldn't new players eventually be in here with some regularity so they can figure things out? Unrelated, but remember my first game? I did dick all the first few days and flipped town in the end. Daryl strikes me more as someone who's more apathetic, not scummy, and doesn't realize that you kind of have to regularly check the game in order to play well... something I also failed to understand at first. Daryl the BerylActually, I don't remember your first game. (Well...your first regular game. You were also in the disastrous bastard game. ) I basically peaced out of even following Mafia after that, cause I fell out of the mood to play for a while there. Anyways...you're right that that isn't inherently a scum tell all by itself. But, it doesn't look good either, since, assuming he's Town, we're down one player because of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 17:54:38 GMT -5
Two questions for Libra and Devil Marlena Nylund: 1. Let's assume that one of the two of you is getting lynched today. Who's lynch do you think is more beneficial, and why? 2. You're both currently voting for each other. Who would you suggest as an alternative third person to look into for D2, and why [2]?
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 18:22:05 GMT -5
Two questions for Libra and Devil Marlena Nylund: 1. Let's assume that one of the two of you is getting lynched today. Who's lynch do you think is more beneficial, and why? 2. You're both currently voting for each other. Who would you suggest as an alternative third person to look into for D2, and why [2]? 1. There's Pro and Con to either of us. Me: Pro - I've taken more stances than Max has; lynching me gives us the opportunity to check the veracity of those stances based on my flip. Con - I'm also among the most active players; lynching me gives Scum more latitude in using lower activity for cover. Max: Pro - Less of a loss due to less discussion-pushing. Con - Less opportunity to gain information off lynch if we're wrong and he IS Town. (Would it make sense for Scum to kill the other, though, if he is in fact also Town?) 2. I'm still looking at Drag myself. Barring that, any of the less active contributors. I suspect the Scum team will have at least one active and at least one less-active; the other is a toss-up. Catching the less-active Scum ought to narrow that cover, I'd think.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 18:42:36 GMT -5
^If you are both town, scum doesn't care which one of you goes as long as their votes against lynchee (if they had their vote on that person) seemed plausible enough to not make them seem that suspect. Chances are they are not all going to vote for the same person either....flashback to that elementary mafia game where damn near my entire team bandwagoned on one player simultaneously and almost FUBARed us before we even had a chance but usually absurdly bad scum moves like that don't happen. (And somehow, they still managed to not get caught.) Otherwise, i generally agree with your pros and cons as for who to lynch.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 18:55:13 GMT -5
Just a reminder, if no one is lynched before the deadline comes, that gives town less information to go by since we won't know the potential lYnchee's alignment and scum will get a nightkill which will leave town in a horrible position come day 2.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 18:58:41 GMT -5
Also, we need to grill the newbees a bit more come day 2 since there's a possibility one of them is scum. Daryl's inactivity is a bit worrisome since he hasn't posted at all since the tone of the game became a bit more serious. I'm going to keep my eye on him more but for now, Libra and Max (Mike) are our only 2 realistic options before the deadline. I'm going out, so this may be my last post before deadline.
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 19:04:38 GMT -5
Just a reminder, if no one is lynched before the deadline comes, that gives town less information to go by since we won't know the potential lYnchee's alignment and scum will get a nightkill which will leave town in a horrible position come day 2. WRONG. Majority is NOT required for lynch, due to Rule #8. Read it, and the first page, if you don't believe me. In fact, I've referred to this multiple times up to now! The only way we don't get a lynch is if we vote to not have one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 19:08:48 GMT -5
Two questions for Libra and Devil Marlena Nylund: 1. Let's assume that one of the two of you is getting lynched today. Who's lynch do you think is more beneficial, and why? 2. You're both currently voting for each other. Who would you suggest as an alternative third person to look into for D2, and why [2]? 1. There's Pro and Con to either of us. Me: Pro - I've taken more stances than Max has; lynching me gives us the opportunity to check the veracity of those stances based on my flip. Con - I'm also among the most active players; lynching me gives Scum more latitude in using lower activity for cover. Max: Pro - Less of a loss due to less discussion-pushing. Con - Less opportunity to gain information off lynch if we're wrong and he IS Town. (Would it make sense for Scum to kill the other, though, if he is in fact also Town?) 2. I'm still looking at Drag myself. Barring that, any of the less active contributors. I suspect the Scum team will have at least one active and at least one less-active; the other is a toss-up. Catching the less-active Scum ought to narrow that cover, I'd think. Fair enough. I have a few thoughts on your response but I want to hear Max's answers first so I'll hold off until then... which I guess makes me a hypocrite since I said witholding info isn't usually a good idea lol, but I consider this a situational exception. Just a reminder, if no one is lynched before the deadline comes, that gives town less information to go by since we won't know the potential lYnchee's alignment and scum will get a nightkill which will leave town in a horrible position come day 2. Majority vote is auto-lynched. If votes remain the same until deadline tonight, then Libra is lynched.
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Post by Libra on Jun 11, 2015 19:47:09 GMT -5
I didn't name a specific less-active contributor because I don't think we have enough that a single one is distinguishably bad compared to the rest, quite yet. I think this should change during D2 - but, the number of arguably justifiable inactives (Surf, popstop, Green Baron, and now Mikey - see RT) is particularly worrisome.
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