Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Jul 10, 2018 4:10:50 GMT -5
I mean, girl was the frontwoman of a successful band, writes her own music, and successfully launched a solo career. She has more than a handful of smash hits and was a style icon for years.
Like, I get there's the unfortunate botox and headline-chasing relationship gossip, but most celebrities do this too. Personally I think she's a peer of Celine, Beyone, Britney, etc. on the legends rank.
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Post by Naos on Jul 10, 2018 4:12:31 GMT -5
Possibly because she's seen by some as a sellout.
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Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Jul 10, 2018 4:14:12 GMT -5
Possibly because she's seen by some as a sellout. And Veyonce, Britney Spears and Madonna are not?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 4:15:56 GMT -5
Cuz she a home wrecker.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Jul 10, 2018 4:17:22 GMT -5
Possibly because she's seen by some as a sellout. What do you mean by that comment?
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Post by Naos on Jul 10, 2018 4:22:52 GMT -5
Possibly because she's seen by some as a sellout. And Veyonce, Britney Spears and Madonna are not? No, not really. I don't see them abandoning their genre and demographic. Possibly because she's seen by some as a sellout. What do you mean by that comment? Some people think she gave up her artistic principles in exchange for commercial success. A usual indication of this is a sudden shift in genre, or toning down of lyrics to appeal to a more mainstream audience. She went from making ska to making cookie cutter pop. I'm personally not saying she is one (because I don't know too much to say), but I see why people could see her that way.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Jul 10, 2018 5:19:17 GMT -5
Shes held in high regard to me as shes still one of my favorite singers. I was watching youtube videos of her performances in Vegas. Shes still amazing after all these years.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 10, 2018 6:06:53 GMT -5
I think it was when she did her second album that she kind of lost her standing as a rock icon. Love Angel Music Baby could be seen as an experiment in campy pop that just happened to really well but then she went back for seconds and that album did well too but it wasn't really *as* campy and gave the indication (to me) that this was where she wanted to be.
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Jul 10, 2018 11:09:32 GMT -5
Was she getting with Blake when he was married to Miranda Lambert? Anyone know why she divorced Gavin Rossdale? They seemed like the perfect couple.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 11:15:20 GMT -5
I think it was when she did her second album that she kind of lost her standing as a rock icon. Love Angel Music Baby could be seen as an experiment in campy pop that just happened to really well but then she went back for seconds and that album did well too but it wasn't really *as* campy and gave the indication (to me) that this was where she wanted to be. This kinda sums it up I think The Sweet Escape was an even bigger change and overall not a great one Aside from a handful of tracks, that album is kinda messy 4 In The Morning, Early Winter, and the title track are the 3 from that album to actually stay with me
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Jul 10, 2018 11:20:46 GMT -5
She never did upkeep for her legacy, that's essential.
There was a thread here years ago when we talked about the people who had the biggest impact on music and trends during the 00s or something like that, and I mentioned her and ND, and I still stand by that. But she dropped out for the most part after '07, and that was when then the new 'quirky' generation that she helped set the stage for arrived, spearheaded by Katy Perry and Lady Gaga, combo'd with the B-rank Ke$ha and the D-list Dev, among others. Things shifted very fast during that period as the 00s were ending and she ended up on the 'before' side, and her team never pushed to remind people of her importance.
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thelegends
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Post by thelegends on Jul 10, 2018 11:21:27 GMT -5
Same reasons as Avril Lavigne but she hadn't had a song that alienated her fanbase and made people take her as a joke and a laughing stock. In other words, she sold out a bit and if she started as a pop singer and not a rock singer, she would be on the levels of Beyonce and Adele. A third factor is the time of her peak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 12:40:11 GMT -5
I'm not understanding the "sold out" angle. No one (at least, that I knew) was calling Gwen a sellout when she was popping - it was pretty obvious that she broke away from No Doubt specifically because she wanted to do pop/urban sounds that would not have fit No Doubt's brand, and no one had a problem with this. I do think she made a mistake in not doing another No Doubt album shortly after The Sweet Escape, but that is because of the long absence. FWIW No Doubt did originally plan to release an album in 2008, but Gwen's second pregnancy and then a bad bout of writer's block threw them very much off schedule. I agree with Glove Slap, it more or less comes down to simple failure to upkeep. Usher and Shania played themselves the same way. If you want people to acknowledge you as a legend you have to remind them of that shit, every.single.day. Especially when you get several albums/years into your career, and especially with the way listeners and stan culture are now - people are quick to forget your wins and even quicker to try to write your entire career off as a fluke the second you take one L or a pee break. It's illogical but they'll run with that angle every time so you can't give them that opportunity. You have to wake up every day thinking, "what can I do to piss someone off with my presence?" And for too long, Gwen was literally not present. She took off a freaking decade! And there was a six year gap between TSE and No Doubt's return album. This is far too long for a solo female pop star. It would have been somewhat excusable for the band, but they led off Push and Shove with a not-that-rockin' Settle Down and Lookin' Hot (the whole album was rather AC IMO) so it didn't really do much to remind people of ND's musical greatness.
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Post by thirddegree50123 on Jul 10, 2018 13:11:40 GMT -5
I honestly don't think she's that great of a singer. I don't think I've ever seen a performance of hers that impressed me. "Simple Kind of Life" though....damn
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mrmike855
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Post by mrmike855 on Jul 10, 2018 13:59:18 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that No Doubt is still decently respected, if not then it's probably because of Hey Baby and It's My Life. For Gwen's solo work, it's probably because the songs she's most remembered for aren't really liked.
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musicfix18
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Post by musicfix18 on Jul 10, 2018 14:01:19 GMT -5
My first thought when I saw this topic.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Jul 10, 2018 14:22:01 GMT -5
Usher and Shania played themselves the same way. Sidebar: I've been wanting to start a 'Why is Usher such a professional has been' thread for a while, but never knew how to phrase it differently. Ironically, I think R. Kelly's antics and notoriety have helped secure him a higher place in the R&B (as well as overall music) pantheon despite his hitmaking period being around the same length as Usher's, and his crossover period shorter aside from the track with Lady Gaga.
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tekkenguy
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Post by tekkenguy on Jul 10, 2018 15:22:21 GMT -5
She may not be a Britney/Beyonce level icon but I’d put her on roughly the same level as Christina Aguilera and Avril Lavigne. “Being held in high regard” is a status only held for a select few icons (Madonna, Mariah, Adele, etc.) who are true phenomena. Honestly her position in the pop world in the 2000s is similar to Adam Levine’s today.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 17:26:33 GMT -5
Usher and Shania played themselves the same way. Sidebar: I've been wanting to start a 'Why is Usher such a professional has been' thread for a while, but never knew how to phrase it differently. 'Why is Usher a slap fool' would also suffice. It pisses me off (pun not intended haha) that this is true, for the obvious reasons but also for the not as obvious, but should be reason that R. Kelly is truly one of the most overrated "geniuses" of our time. His lyrics, his his melodies, production, his arrangements - all childlike (to match his obsession with all things children) and derivative af. All of his albums rode some other trend's wave, from new jack swing to hip-hop soul to to Chicago stepping; he invented and innovated nothing, and virtually none of his hits have aged well to boot. The only two songs I'll ever give him due credit for are Turn Back the Hands of Time and the Ignition Remix (very, very, begrudgingly). Otherwise, fuck his shitty ass, fuck his shitty ass discography, and fuck his shitty ass fans who cling to the 'genius' of his music just b/c it was what was playing in the background the first time they got laid and their mental ages have been stunted ever since. Take it all and throw it in the trash.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Jul 10, 2018 17:56:18 GMT -5
okbutumadtho Sidebar: I've been wanting to start a 'Why is Usher such a professional has been' thread for a while, but never knew how to phrase it differently. 'Why is Usher a slap fool' would also suffice. Well this one we know. He came up on the Sean Combs blingastripatized path to "adulthood". It's not really an excuse since Diddy's (also probably a bigger icon than Usher tbh) been able to make a lasting image as a wealthy and successful mogul that's stayed long after he stopped getting hits. You can be crazy as hell and still keep reminding people of how successful you have been.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 18:12:00 GMT -5
Glove Slap IN THE TRASH I SAID Diddy as a bigger icon than Usher makes total sense to me. It's a bit different when you're also known as an A&R guy turned producer turned mogul...the overall scope of his career was always broader than Usher's. But yeah, growing up with that as your image of success certainly could not have helped anybody.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 19:45:03 GMT -5
Everytime I see these and someone or quite a few people mention Adull and all 3 of her albums career length. That it's not exactly science. So whatever Adele seems to be doing to somehow slip in to the legends status.... Do that. Gwen had that cultural, fashion icon status much like Jlo and hers was more musical rooted and then she disappeared and nobody seemed to care.
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House Lannister
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Post by House Lannister on Jul 10, 2018 19:51:55 GMT -5
She may not be a Britney/Beyonce level icon but I’d put her on roughly the same level as Christina Aguilera and Avril Lavigne. “Being held in high regard” is a status only held for a select few icons (Madonna, Mariah, Adele, etc.) who are true phenomena. Honestly her position in the pop world in the 2000s is similar to Adam Levine’s today. It probably didn't help matters that it felt like forever between The Sweet Escape and Make Me Like You (not a bad tune, but did have a retro feel). But I will agree with your take for the most part.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Jul 10, 2018 21:51:06 GMT -5
To say that Gwen is in the same level as Christina and Avril is ridiculous. Gwen is in higher regard than Christina or Avril.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 10, 2018 22:19:04 GMT -5
Gwen *should* be in higher regard than both of those but.... I'm not really sure if she is.
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Post by Positive Tension on Jul 10, 2018 22:49:51 GMT -5
The long break Gwen took after The Sweet Escape really hurt her. She was lucky that "The Sweet Escape" single was so big because it pretty much saved the era, but she really should've released something in 2008/2009. She probably would've still had a downward trajectory, but it would've slowed, and she still would've been more in the public eye by the time Gaga and Katy made it big.
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irice22
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Post by irice22 on Jul 11, 2018 1:47:21 GMT -5
She would probably would be if she put more effort into her second solo release.
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Jul 11, 2018 3:55:57 GMT -5
I think it is some of the material that contributed to this. I would say her solo output after Love Angel Music Baby was very hit or miss. I did like some of the singles from The Sweet Escape but I felt that album was a mixed bag. I didn't care for anything off of her last album after that other than "Make Me Love You". I did like that Christmas song she released late last year. Even the last No Doubt album was a major letdown after so many years away and so many delays. What does that have to do with her being held in high regard for her music? It's not like she's fucking Blake on stage during her performances while Miranda sits in the front row crying hysterically watching.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Jul 11, 2018 6:01:08 GMT -5
She fell off hard.
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owenlovesmusic
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Post by owenlovesmusic on Jul 11, 2018 13:15:58 GMT -5
She used to live in my neighborhood and she was a genuinely nice person. She would always say hi and ask how I was. She had great music with No Doubt and had 2 great solo albums.
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