|
Post by die Lotterie on Aug 18, 2018 18:45:39 GMT -5
at 200 without 12 hours of sales. She's worse than the chart fanatics here on Pulse.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 18:54:08 GMT -5
We thought the meltdowns would be on pulse we was wrong it's Nicki on Twitter. Even using her conservative supporting roots to pull the classic fake News from quote from Trump π
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 19:05:22 GMT -5
Nicki noooooo, why is she doing this The final numbers are perfectly fine, and stuff like this is what Iβm talking about when sheβs the one making it an issue and setting herself up like this π€¦π½ββοΈ
|
|
Waveyβ¨οΈ
Moderator
Look...
Positive VibesππΎβ€
Joined: August 2006
Posts: 42,895
Pronouns: He/Him
Staff
|
Post by Waveyβ¨οΈ on Aug 18, 2018 19:15:28 GMT -5
Concept: she should date Rob K and get that Boost of 3rd week sales!
|
|
renfield75
Platinum Member
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 1,627
|
Post by renfield75 on Aug 18, 2018 19:23:08 GMT -5
Honestly, the bigger story is that Aretha's "30 Greatest Hits" managed to get to #8 largely on 1-day. It will vanquish the #117 peak it previously achieved. That's an amazing placement, not just for the one-day, but the fact that several popular tracks appear on at 5 other compilations that had placed in the Top 20 iTunes (and I'm assuming were also tapped through streaming) as well as several other albums that hit the Top 100. I'm a bit surprised that none of the albums managed the Top 50 sales, considering she had 5 in the Top 10. I guess it shows what a large gap there was between 30GH and the rest. Also surprising she hasn't had a top ten album in 45 years, and she's never had a #1 album (which won't change next week thanks to Ariana).
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 19:30:40 GMT -5
Also surprising she hasn't had a top ten album in 45 years, and she's never had a #1 album (which won't change next week thanks to Ariana). This is a good example of the point I was making earlier about chart positions. If that's what an artist focuses on, they're doing it wrong. And they're doing themselves a disservice as a living or future legendary artist.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 19:35:21 GMT -5
Aretha was the R&B market for the majority of her career
There she set records
Past her prime once Soundscan hit
|
|
kierz7
2x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 2,642
|
Post by kierz7 on Aug 18, 2018 20:17:12 GMT -5
Honestly, the bigger story is that Aretha's "30 Greatest Hits" managed to get to #8 largely on 1-day. It will vanquish the #117 peak it previously achieved. That's an amazing placement, not just for the one-day, but the fact that several popular tracks appear on at 5 other compilations that had placed in the Top 20 iTunes (and I'm assuming were also tapped through streaming) as well as several other albums that hit the Top 100. I'm a bit surprised that none of the albums managed the Top 50 sales, considering she had 5 in the Top 10. I guess it shows what a large gap there was between 30GH and the rest. Also surprising she hasn't had a top ten album in 45 years, and she's never had a #1 album (which won't change next week thanks to Ariana). Why is it surprising? By the time 'Soundscan' took precedence in 1991, Franklin had already been in the recording industry for 30 years. She experienced her greatest success on the R&B charts where she set multiple records in both singles and album leverage and far surpassed the majority of her Female peers across the format. Nevertheless, for as R&B-centric as her career and success were, she still achieved more success on the Pop charts than any of the other solo R&B/Soul Female acts of her era bar Diana Ross and Donna Summer. She has more Pop number ones/top tens than Chaka Khan; Natalie Cole; Patti Labelle; Dionne Warwick; Gladys Knight etc. not to mention she still has the most Hot 100 entries as a lead artist among Women. (Gladys Knight accomplished great success on the Pop charts in the '70's but she was still part of a group where she was billed alongside 'The Pips').
|
|
renfield75
Platinum Member
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 1,627
|
Post by renfield75 on Aug 18, 2018 20:23:18 GMT -5
Also surprising she hasn't had a top ten album in 45 years, and she's never had a #1 album (which won't change next week thanks to Ariana). Why is it surprising? By the time 'Soundscan' took precedence in 1991, Franklin had already been in the recording industry for 30 years. She experienced her greatest success on the R&B charts where she set multiple records and far surpassed the majority of her Female peers across the format. Nevertheless, for as R&B-centric as her career and success were, she still achieved more success on the Pop charts than any of the other solo R&B/Soul Female acts of her era bar Diana Ross and Donna Summer. She has more Pop number ones/top tens than Chaka Khan; Natalie Cole; Patti Labelle; Dionne Warwick; Gladys Knight etc. not to mention she still has the most Hot 100 entries as a lead artist among Women. (Gladys Knight accomplished great success on the Pop charts in the '70's but she was still part of a group where she was billed alongside 'The Pips'). It's surprising because I thought an album like 'Who's Zoomin' Who' might have made the top ten in the 80s (it peaked at 13), or one of her 2000s albums might have cracked the top ten when Bob Dylan, Tony Bennet, and Neil Diamond were having number one albums. And please don't think I was diminishing her career in any way. It just struck me as odd that an artist of her stature didn't have a top ten album after 1973, since she remained so relevant for so long after that.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 20:26:24 GMT -5
A comparable singer in terms of era and dominant market (R&B), # of hits
James Brown also never had a #1 album (or a top 10 for that matter) or a #1 hit
But was all over the R&B charts
also nicknames
Aretha was the Queen, James Brown was the Godfather
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 18, 2018 20:29:24 GMT -5
Did the Billboard 200 album chart not include all album "sales" (as reported by retailers) before soundscan?
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 20:42:44 GMT -5
Did the Billboard 200 album chart not include all album "sales" (as reported by retailers) before soundscan? Strictly speaking, even now the Billboard 200 with Soundscan data still doesn't include all sales. Pre-Soundscan, the numbers were largely inaccurate and prone to corruption. It was also quite obviouslt a different world with people normally climbing to the top instead of dΓ©buting there. She might also have gospel sales.
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 20:45:28 GMT -5
Honestly, the bigger story is that Aretha's "30 Greatest Hits" managed to get to #8 largely on 1-day. It will vanquish the #117 peak it previously achieved. That's an amazing placement, not just for the one-day, but the fact that several popular tracks appear on at 5 other compilations that had placed in the Top 20 iTunes (and I'm assuming were also tapped through streaming) as well as several other albums that hit the Top 100. I'm a bit surprised that none of the albums managed the Top 50 sales, considering she had 5 in the Top 10. I guess it shows what a large gap there was between 30GH and the rest. Similar to veterans such as Reba McEntire and Dolly Parton, I believe Arethan Franklin never had the classic album per se, but achieved her legendary status through her general vocal performance as well as longevity. Whitney Houston's post-death week was like this as well, I believe. Multiple classics soaring up the charts, but on the albums side, a compilation overshadows the rest. It would be similar for when Barbra Streisand passes, I believe (despite her being the female with the highest number of No 1 albums).
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 18, 2018 20:46:46 GMT -5
Did the Billboard 200 album chart not include all album "sales" (as reported by retailers) before soundscan? Strictly speaking, even now the Billboard 200 with Soundscan data still doesn't include all sales. Pre-Soundscan, the numbers were largely inaccurate and prone to corruption. It was also quite obviouslt a different world with people normally climbing to the top instead of dΓ©buting there. She might also have gospel sales. Yeah but I'm confused as to why people are saying people shouldn't be surprised Aretha and other R&B artists have never had a top 10 album. Did they not have the sales or were their sales not included as part of the main album chart?
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 20:47:24 GMT -5
This kind of scenario is just the latest in a long line of situations where I miss the days before the internet, let alone social media. Things just sold what they sold, and artists weren't discussing numbers in realtime, or at all, really. The chart would be released in Billboard Magazine each week, and that was that. Entertainment tonight would give a rundown of the top 10 albums, and there was no comments section for stans and trolls, or platforms for artists to act a fool over chart placement. It made a huge difference in terms of artist allure, as well as what people focused on when an album was released - THE MUSIC. The digital era has made a mess of things, and Nicki is a prime example. Her artistry is overshadowed by her and her damn twitter account. But they did. Back in the days, it would have more difficult for artists to talk about actual numbers due to their not actually being available, but chart positions are talked about. Madonna herself defended Erotica for not being a flop by citing its sales, and she also talked about its chart placement.
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 20:52:54 GMT -5
I wonder if she does have some insiders' information that suggested that Queen is the No 1 album this week, or is she simply overconfident and doesn't realize the eggs that would be on her face when the final numbers are out and she still isn't No 1? I'm DEAD at her thinking the supreme being of the universe would be actively helping the world to realize the magnificance of her album, and people only criticize 6ix9ine for being a sexual offender due to her album being supposedly flawless...If she doesn't get the No 1 on Billboard, I wonder if she's going to say the MSM is conspiring against her.
|
|
renfield75
Platinum Member
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 1,627
|
Post by renfield75 on Aug 18, 2018 20:55:05 GMT -5
Honestly, the bigger story is that Aretha's "30 Greatest Hits" managed to get to #8 largely on 1-day. It will vanquish the #117 peak it previously achieved. That's an amazing placement, not just for the one-day, but the fact that several popular tracks appear on at 5 other compilations that had placed in the Top 20 iTunes (and I'm assuming were also tapped through streaming) as well as several other albums that hit the Top 100. I'm a bit surprised that none of the albums managed the Top 50 sales, considering she had 5 in the Top 10. I guess it shows what a large gap there was between 30GH and the rest. Similar to veterans such as Reba McEntire and Dolly Parton, I believe Arethan Franklin never had the classic album per se, but achieved her legendary status through her general vocal performance as well as longevity. Whitney Houston's post-death week was like this as well, I believe. Multiple classics soaring up the charts, but on the albums side, a compilation overshadows the rest. It would be similar for when Barbra Streisand passes, I believe (despite her being the female with the highest number of No 1 albums). That's true of all veteran artists with a lot of hits, even if they have classic albums. Prince, MJ, Tom Petty, and George Michael all saw their greatest hits albums perform the best after passing. It would have been true of Bowie as well if he hadn't released a new album the week he died. Artists like Amy Winehouse, XXXTentacion, and Avicii had individual albums perform best because they hadn't been around long enough for greatest hits compilations.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 20:55:28 GMT -5
"sales" were called "shipments", RIAA was the source.
"Shipments" could also be returned
Retail reports were dictated by the retailers based on their own specific sales. Rankings were based on rankings of retail reports - no sales - just rankings and nowhere near the whole market - just a sample
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 21:04:32 GMT -5
Strictly speaking, even now the Billboard 200 with Soundscan data still doesn't include all sales. Pre-Soundscan, the numbers were largely inaccurate and prone to corruption. It was also quite obviouslt a different world with people normally climbing to the top instead of dΓ©buting there. She might also have gospel sales. Yeah but I'm confused as to why people are saying people shouldn't be surprised Aretha and other R&B artists have never had a top 10 album. Did they not have the sales or were their sales not included as part of the main album chart? Well, first of all, not to really play the sexism or the race card, but it was very rare for women to do well in album sales back in the days, let alone a black woman who isn't named Barbra Straisand. Michael Jackson's and Whitney Houston's breakthourghs were of course impressive and groundbreaking for all artists, but they were also basically the first black artists to really make it big in album sales. When you limit yourself to a specific genre, you are likewise limiting yourself to a specific audience. That means you don't get as much sales, and your chart exposure on the singles side is also limited due to only pop airplay being counted towards the Hot 100. R&B artists also weren't thought to be big album sellers (unlike rock acts), so the record labels would also focus more on promoting their singles rather than their albums. She "only" had 16 Top 10 singles throughout her career. She's really mostly about her vocals and her longevity rather than the popularity of her music. Also, she did have Top 10 albums. I Never Loved A Man The Way I Loved You went No 2, Aretha Arrives reached No 5, Lady Soul was No 2, Aretha Now peaked at No 3, Aretha Live At Filmore West charted ar at No 7, as well as Amazing Grace. The issue was that her last Top 10 album was from 1972, which really wasn't surprising considering the fact that her last solo Top 10 single was in 1985, and that her career started in 1956.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 21:09:48 GMT -5
Yeah but I'm confused as to why people are saying people shouldn't be surprised Aretha and other R&B artists have never had a top 10 album. Did they not have the sales or were their sales not included as part of the main album chart? Well, first of all, not to really play the sexism or the race card, but it was very rare for women to do well in album sales back in the days, let alone a black woman who isn't named Barbra Straisand. Michael Jackson's and Whitney Houston's breakthourghs were of course impressive and groundbreaking for all artists, but they were also basically the first black artists to really make it big in album sales. When you limit yourself to a specific genre, you are likewise limiting yourself to a specific audience. That means you don't get as much sales, and your chart exposure on the singles side is also limited due to only pop airplay being counted towards the Hot 100. R&B artists also weren't thought to be big album sellers (unlike rock acts), so the record labels would also focus more on promoting their singles rather than their albums. She "only" had 16 Top 10 singles throughout her career. She's really mostly about her vocals and her longevity rather than the popularity of her music. Also, she did have Top 10 albums. I Never Loved A Man The Way I Loved You went No 2, Aretha Arrives reached No 5, Lady Soul was No 2, Aretha Now peaked at No 3, Aretha Live At Filmore West charted ar at No 7, as well as Amazing Grace. The issue was that her last Top 10 album was from 1972, which really wasn't surprising considering the fact that her last solo Top 10 single was in 1985, and that her career started in 1956. There is a black woman named Barbra Streisand? Again- Billboard did not get sales data in the 80s, just a sampling of retail rankings
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 21:15:19 GMT -5
Well, first of all, not to really play the sexism or the race card, but it was very rare for women to do well in album sales back in the days, let alone a black woman who isn't named Barbra Straisand. Michael Jackson's and Whitney Houston's breakthourghs were of course impressive and groundbreaking for all artists, but they were also basically the first black artists to really make it big in album sales. When you limit yourself to a specific genre, you are likewise limiting yourself to a specific audience. That means you don't get as much sales, and your chart exposure on the singles side is also limited due to only pop airplay being counted towards the Hot 100. R&B artists also weren't thought to be big album sellers (unlike rock acts), so the record labels would also focus more on promoting their singles rather than their albums. She "only" had 16 Top 10 singles throughout her career. She's really mostly about her vocals and her longevity rather than the popularity of her music. Also, she did have Top 10 albums. I Never Loved A Man The Way I Loved You went No 2, Aretha Arrives reached No 5, Lady Soul was No 2, Aretha Now peaked at No 3, Aretha Live At Filmore West charted ar at No 7, as well as Amazing Grace. The issue was that her last Top 10 album was from 1972, which really wasn't surprising considering the fact that her last solo Top 10 single was in 1985, and that her career started in 1956. There is a black woman named Barbra Streisand? Again- Billboard did not get sales data in the 80s, just a sampling of retail rankings Well, I was making the assumption that a black female artist printing "Barbra Streisand" on the album cover without showing her face or body could have gotten a Top 10 out of accidental sales! In any case, that sentence in no way, shape, or form suggested that there was a black woman named Barbra Streisand (which there probably was anyway), rather than that she's the only one consistently hitting the top spot.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 21:21:32 GMT -5
Black Females hitting #1 in the 70s and 80s before or during the time of Whitney Houston's debut
Diana Ross Patti LaBelle Donna Summer
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 18, 2018 21:31:30 GMT -5
Ok, that makes sense. I'm regularly surprised when I hear about legendary names in music in the 60s and 70s whose album chart performance isn't what you'd expect based on how significant they've become. It always makes me wonder, so who WAS topping the charts during that time? lol
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 21:32:43 GMT -5
Black Females hitting #1 in the 70s and 80s before or during the time of Whitney Houston's debut Diana Ross Patti LaBelle Donna Summer Diana Ross has 1 No 1 album, the soundtrack Lady Sings The Blues in 1972. As a part of The Supreme, the biggest R&B female group ever at the time, she had only 3 more. Patti LaBelle has 1 No 1 album in her career, and 0 before Whitney Houston stormed the scene. She had 0 with Labelle. Donna Summer had in total 3 No 1 albums, 1 studio album, 1 live album, and 1 compilation respectively. What point are you trying to make? That I was absolutely right saying it was rare for black female artists to be big album sellers before Whitney Houston?
|
|
His Holiness
New Member
Dupe
Hitlor Must Fall
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 65
|
Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 21:33:50 GMT -5
Ok, that makes sense. I'm regularly surprised when I hear about legendary names in music in the 60s and 70s whose album chart performance isn't what you'd expect based on how significant they've become. It always makes me wonder, so who WAS topping the charts during that time? lol en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_200_number-one_albums_of_1960Mostly white men.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 21:36:05 GMT -5
That is why I said DURING - Patti LaBelle hit #1 3 weeks after Whitney finished her run
Whitney did not break ground for black females in my opinion for #1's, as it happened a few times before.
Is 5 #1's in 14 years "rare", a matter of opinion I guess
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 18, 2018 21:37:57 GMT -5
I'd say 5 #1s for a demographic not short on talent and popularity in 14 years is pretty rare.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 21:44:05 GMT -5
5 out of 157 between Diana Ross and Patti Labelle (3%)
About as "rare" as hitting #1 on the Hot 100 for 10 weeks + I suppose
Not going to debate semantics with you - call it what you want
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 18, 2018 21:50:57 GMT -5
It might be semantics. I just now find it odd that you're against the idea that someone might consider it rare? Granted I wasn't alive during the time in question so maybe the presence of rhythm and blues and black women in mainstream culture isn't as significant as I've always believed. It's possible it's just one of those things that has grown over time, like how Stairway to Heaven wasn't a hit (or even a single?) when it was a current but has grown to be a huge point in the history of rock. That's really all I'm wondering. To me, it's rare only if black women were a major force in music at that time. If they weren't, it wouldn't really be rare in my mind because it's not something you'd expect to happen anyway. You know what I mean? Sometimes it helps to dig deeper into something rather than just ending it on a surface level statement.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,742
|
Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 21:54:28 GMT -5
Not interested in a long drawn out discussion/debate on this with you
So fine - it is rare
|
|