His Holiness
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Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 21:57:57 GMT -5
That is why I said DURING - Patti LaBelle hit #1 3 weeks after Whitney finished her run Whitney did not break ground for black females in my opinion for #1's, as it happened a few times before. Is 5 #1's in 14 years "rare", a matter of opinion I guess If you honestly cannot see the obviously drastic difference between Whitney Houston's runaway, record-breaking (not just for black women) success and the limited successes of the black women before her, then there's no numbers or facts I can possibly post to make you see that. Being the very first to hit No 1 is one thing, being the very first to not only hit No 1, but to be the biggest star on the planet in terms of album sales is quite another level of breaking ground. That's like saying Madonna didn't do anything for female artists in terms of pushing them to the mainstream because she wasn't the first woman to sell a copy of an album. And yes, 5 No 1s in 14 years is rare. It's not a matter of opinion. There were 12 No 1 albums in 1972. 16 further ones in 1973. 23 in 1974. 18 in 1975. 10 in 1976. 6 in 1977. 8 in 1978. 10 in 1979. 12 in 1980. 10 in 1981. 8 in 1982. 5 in 1983. 4 in 1984. 12 in 1985. 14 in 1986. The number could be off but that's 169 albums in total. 5 is less than 3% of the total, and as you know, once almost every 3 years. If I hire you to work for me, and I pay you once every 3 years, would you say it's a common occurence that I pay you, or that it's a rare one? It's not a matter of opinion, but one of literacy.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 22:02:24 GMT -5
I measured 157 from Diana Ross to Patti Labelle
more than 3% not less
Anyway - fine - it is rare
Donna Summer In 1978-1979? Pretty big star then? Donna Summer is an example of a black woman who was one oft he biggest stars on the planet regularly hitting #1, before Whitney
Fact, opinion or literacy or not true at all? - your choice
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 22:05:33 GMT -5
This kind of scenario is just the latest in a long line of situations where I miss the days before the internet, let alone social media. Things just sold what they sold, and artists weren't discussing numbers in realtime, or at all, really. The chart would be released in Billboard Magazine each week, and that was that. Entertainment tonight would give a rundown of the top 10 albums, and there was no comments section for stans and trolls, or platforms for artists to act a fool over chart placement. It made a huge difference in terms of artist allure, as well as what people focused on when an album was released - THE MUSIC. The digital era has made a mess of things, and Nicki is a prime example. Her artistry is overshadowed by her and her damn twitter account. But they did. Back in the days, it would have more difficult for artists to talk about actual numbers due to their not actually being available, but chart positions are talked about. Madonna herself defended Erotica for not being a flop by citing its sales, and she also talked about its chart placement. I remember that, and if I remember correctly, that was her responding to an interviewer who mentioned how Erotica was deemed a bomb or whatever - in retrospect. I'm talking more about this in-the-moment obsessing about it. Making it all about sales and chart position, rather than just promoting the music and letting it play out. I'm not saying that artists aren't - or shouldn't be - or weren't - concerned about numbers, either. Of course many were and are going to be aware of these things and want their work to succeed on certain levels. But when it becomes their outward focus during an album's release week, it's taking the attention away from the work they've just delivered. Fans then obsess even more about it as well - and it becomes some weird sport that overshadows the art. I also realize data is readily available these days and it wasn't pre-soundscan, so that's a factor. Technology has changed culture, and I feel like it's for the worse in this case. Which was my overall point. It's not everyone, either, which was another part of my point.
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His Holiness
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Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 22:20:43 GMT -5
I measured 157 from Diana Ross to Patti Labelle more than 3% not less Anyway - fine - it is rare Donna Summer In 1978-1979? Pretty big star then? Donna Summer is an example of a black woman who was one oft he biggest stars on the planet regularly hitting #1, before Whitney Fact, opinion or literacy or not true at all? - your choice Donna Summer was a moderately popular star in Europe and not really a thing outside of western Europe, the US, and Canada, so I don't think she counted as one of the biggest stars on the planet at the time. Her 3 No 1s in such a short period of time was of course objectively impressive but exactly because it was a short period of time, it could be seen more as a fluke rather than her "regularly hitting No 1". If she only worked for like 5 years in total, then fine, but she's been around for decades and outside of that short period of time, she didn't hit No 1. Compare to Whitney Houston who started her career with a No 1 album and ended her career also with one, with numerous No 1 albums in between, and her peak around 10 years into her career. If those 3 No 1s were spread out to a 6-year period, I might find it appropriate to say she was regularly hitting No 1.
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His Holiness
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Post by His Holiness on Aug 18, 2018 22:25:02 GMT -5
But they did. Back in the days, it would have more difficult for artists to talk about actual numbers due to their not actually being available, but chart positions are talked about. Madonna herself defended Erotica for not being a flop by citing its sales, and she also talked about its chart placement. I remember that, and if I remember correctly, that was her responding to an interviewer who mentioned how Erotica was deemed a bomb or whatever - in retrospect. I'm talking more about this in-the-moment obsessing about it. Making it all about sales and chart position, rather than just promoting the music and letting it play out. I'm not saying that artists aren't - or shouldn't be - or weren't - concerned about numbers, either. Of course many were and are going to be aware of these things and want their work to succeed on certain levels. But when it becomes their outward focus during an album's release week, it's taking the attention away from the work they've just delivered. Fans then obsess even more about it as well - and it becomes some weird sport that overshadows the art. I also realize data is readily available these days and it wasn't pre-soundscan, so that's a factor. Technology has changed culture, and I feel like it's for the worse in this case. Which was my overall point. It's not everyone, either, which was another part of my point. I believe she commented on Erotica peaking at No 3, complaining about The Bodyguard staying at No 1 forever. I mean, obviously it's different as she was sort of passing that as a joke and she wasn't pulling some stunts like attaching the album to the Sex book and tickets to Body of Evidence and copies of Truth or Dare, but I was just saying she still talked about it relatively close to her album release. I don't see a problem with an artist being chart-obsessed in terms of pulling all the stops to get their stuff to No 1. I think it's only an issue if they do that while they're making their music. If they release generic stuff just to sell a product, that's when I see a problem. If it's only a matter of they've made art they are truthful to, and simply wanted to get it out to as many people as possible, I have no problem with that.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 22:28:21 GMT -5
In that 157 count, between Diana Ross and Patti Labelle I overlooked Janet Jackson
Regardless, 6 albums out of 157 - "rare" OK fine
In those 157 - there were 94 unique artists, 4 of which were black females - "rare" OK fine.
Donna Summer - The biggest star of the Disco era(1975-1980) - Male or female ,white or black(probably only the Bee Gees group were bigger), hitting #1 was a fluke - OK fine
Whitney Houston started it all - OK fine
Done
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 22:29:08 GMT -5
I remember that, and if I remember correctly, that was her responding to an interviewer who mentioned how Erotica was deemed a bomb or whatever - in retrospect. I'm talking more about this in-the-moment obsessing about it. Making it all about sales and chart position, rather than just promoting the music and letting it play out. I'm not saying that artists aren't - or shouldn't be - or weren't - concerned about numbers, either. Of course many were and are going to be aware of these things and want their work to succeed on certain levels. But when it becomes their outward focus during an album's release week, it's taking the attention away from the work they've just delivered. Fans then obsess even more about it as well - and it becomes some weird sport that overshadows the art. I also realize data is readily available these days and it wasn't pre-soundscan, so that's a factor. Technology has changed culture, and I feel like it's for the worse in this case. Which was my overall point. It's not everyone, either, which was another part of my point. I believe she commented on Erotica peaking at No 3, complaining about The Bodyguard staying at No 1 forever. I mean, obviously it's different as she was sort of passing that as a joke and she wasn't pulling some stunts like attaching the album to the Sex book and tickets to Body of Evidence and copies of Truth or Dare, but I was just saying she still talked about it relatively close to her album release. I don't see a problem with an artist being chart-obsessed in terms of pulling all the stops to get their stuff to No 1. I think it's only an issue if they do that while they're making their music. If they release generic stuff just to sell a product, that's when I see a problem. If it's only a matter of they've made art they are truthful to, and simply wanted to get it out to as many people as possible, I have no problem with that. Cool.
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Aug 18, 2018 22:32:47 GMT -5
I have noticed when you look back, often albums have much lower than expected peaks. I think we are used to a world where albums debut at their peak, and it’s relatively easy to hit the top ten based on the fame of the artist, when that wasn’t always the case.
And in the pre-90s era, having a hit single didn’t guarantee album sales. When you had to physically buy music (and when singles were regularly sold), you could have a hit single without people buying the album. Thanks the BB200 SPS rules now, that is literally impossible — hence things like Mark Ronson appearing to have a hit album when it was all based on Uptown Funk’s success as a single.
It occurs to me that while I know a bunch of Aretha songs I couldn’t actually name any of her albums.
It seems to me Aretha, and probably other similar artists, were known for hit singles rather than their albums, and chart stats reflect that.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 22:39:53 GMT -5
Groups dominated the album chart pre-1991 --- not so much now It is rare - oops - I mean unusual for a #1 album to not debut there now, pre-1991 the opposite
Actual sales (and streaming determine rankings now) - in pre 1991 - a sample accumulation of rankings summarized from retail reports.
If you look at the 80s #1 albums - they seem to accompany big pop hits - not as much post 1991. A hit single didn't guarantee album sales in the 80s sure but album #1's usually had big singles
Soundscan Paved the way for more genres other than pop to hit #1
Aretha was past her prime by then
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on Aug 18, 2018 22:44:55 GMT -5
This is only conjecture, and impossible to know for sure, but Donna Summer, Diana Ross, and country acts like Alabama likely would have had more number one albums had Soundscan existed. I can't imagine REO Speedwagon and Men At Work having double digit runs on top in a Soundscan environment.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2018 22:46:15 GMT -5
Yes I agree, coincidence or not
Country broke out right at the time Soundscan changed the way popularity of albums were ranked
Other genres without pop hits also had big albums
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Bwol
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Post by Bwol on Aug 18, 2018 23:23:31 GMT -5
Honestly if you are THAT mad that your album that sold hundreds of thousands of dollars is #2 instead of #1 on a CHART then you really need to re-think your life...
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Aug 18, 2018 23:46:27 GMT -5
Shes clearly into charts like we are, let her be!
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Aug 19, 2018 4:21:29 GMT -5
Why do people even care whether Queen or any of Nickis solo work does good or not? Doesn’t Nicki chart and sell better as a featured artist? A wise woman once said that Nicki Minaj is like garlic. Nobody wants to eat a clove of garlic with some breadcrumbs on it.
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Aug 19, 2018 4:41:21 GMT -5
Who tf said that?
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Aug 19, 2018 7:29:58 GMT -5
Like I said Nicki herself is making this a much bigger deal by even addressing it. Do you think actual queens pay attention to this sort of stuff? They probably do! But they don't show it on social media.
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jayhawk1117
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Post by jayhawk1117 on Aug 19, 2018 10:23:27 GMT -5
At this point I'm just waiting for the "official" numbers so I can see inevitable twitter meltdown
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 19, 2018 10:30:32 GMT -5
Not interested in a long drawn out discussion/debate on this with you So fine - it is rare Which is sad because I really wasn't looking for a debate. I'm looking to expand my own understanding of what the music scene was like back in those days. Thanks for being of little help in that regard.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 19, 2018 11:28:20 GMT -5
Billboard needs to come through with the official numbers already.
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Aug 19, 2018 11:30:23 GMT -5
I don't know if anyboby posted the numbers, but the fact that Astroworld's songs outstreamed those from Queen and the album had more pure sales than Queen's is a pretty bad outcome for the latter. Both did considerably outperform their early predictions, if that's any consolation.
The other thing to note is Scorpion probably falling below 100k. Unless Astroworld's numbers fall below it, it probably wouldn't have a chance to return to #1 during a weak album release week.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Aug 19, 2018 12:49:44 GMT -5
Scorpion has no chance of returning to number one as it contains #1 hit right now in the country and is still below 100k. As IMF weakens, Nonstop is not enough to keep Scorpion, let's say above 75k for very long.
I can imagine at least following doing better than that (in addition to those charting already or Ariana who'll debut at #1 next week)
Troye Sivan: Bloom (August 31) Paul McCartney: Egypt Station (Sept 7) Carrie Underwood: Cry Pretty (Sept 14) Cher: Dancing Queen (Sept 28) Twenty One Pilots: Trench (Oct 5)
And these are only the ones we know about, there will probably some surprises (from hip hop side at least)
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Aug 19, 2018 14:36:21 GMT -5
^Carrie Underwood and twenty one pilots are definitely locks assuming no surprise releases. Another one that I would assume would be Josh Groban's on Sept. 21.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 19, 2018 15:17:08 GMT -5
Travis remains at #1 with 205k SPS. Nicki debuts at #2 with 185k. Drake drops one spot to #3 with 102k. Let the madness begin.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 15:28:41 GMT -5
Travis remains at #1 with 205k SPS. Nicki debuts at #2 with 185k. Drake drops one spot to #3 with 102k. Let the madness begin. 😂 now that official numbers are out and she can't use fake news what's is her stunts today gonna be? She has been setting up her excuses with the imma a rapper from NYC and everyone in the industry is trying to sabotage me they can't handle me they want me gone. Meanwhile she lost to another rapper lol
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Aug 19, 2018 15:46:41 GMT -5
It's really not a big deal🤷♀️
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 15:57:41 GMT -5
It's really not a big deal🤷♀️ Well according to your post it's a big deal to her
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Aug 19, 2018 15:59:34 GMT -5
It's really not a big deal🤷♀️ Well according to your post it's a big deal to her Well she'll handle it🤷♀️
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 16:01:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 16:04:01 GMT -5
While the one calling herself the Queen is sitting on Twitter coming up with excuses and having meltdowns. Cardi is sitting there with a brand new baby, an indisputable #1 album and two #1 hit singles. Could all this shenanigans have anything to do with Nicki being insecure about this whole Queen thing. Why else is she acting like Donald Trump on Twitter? She wants that one so baaaad. Desperate ass.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 19, 2018 16:04:57 GMT -5
She's going in! She must be a Pulse poster. Hi Nicki! I still <3 u
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