Kanenrá:ke
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Post by Kanenrá:ke on Jun 20, 2019 15:18:26 GMT -5
Just curious here...you do know that for Callout they don't poll the whole audience, it's a really really small number of people. Streaming and downloading is a much bigger audience than the Callout people. Plus the passion needed to download or choose what to stream shows what is a bigger hit with people than radio does. The only thing you can't measure with the two is if it's only country listeners downloading. Point being in noway was "Love Someone" a bigger hit than "Look What God Gave Her". "Miss Me More" I'd have to look at the numbers again but I believe it was smaller as well. Yeah, I'm familiar with the procedure, but that's a small sample that's supposed to be representative of the larger audience, right? It's the same as political polling, which generally tends to be pretty accurate within a margin of error of a few points. I don't know the exact number of people polled for Callout but if I'm not mistaken it's less than half a percent of the Country radio audience. Forgive me if I don't think that's nearly enough to represent the public opinion. Futhermore comparing callout to political polling for me is problematic. For one political polling is more important and more thought is usually given to it. It's also only usually asking you which one candidate are you voting for, not what's your opinion on multiple songs. At any given time there's around 30 songs I'd happily give high marks for in a callout survey, while on a political one I'll usually have only one choice. It's just flawed thinking to me to put so much stock into callout to determine the impact of a song on an audience. It's only real use is for stations to determine which songs have the lowest tune-out which is not equivalent to passion.
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thewp
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Post by thewp on Jun 20, 2019 15:22:51 GMT -5
but, that's how statistics work. Increasing the sample size beyond a certain # doesn't make the results better. However, the fact that the building chart shows this increased 22% over last week is ridiculous. As is the whole wait for your turn bull.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 20, 2019 15:23:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm familiar with the procedure, but that's a small sample that's supposed to be representative of the larger audience, right? It's the same as political polling, which generally tends to be pretty accurate within a margin of error of a few points. I don't know the exact number of people polled for Callout but if I'm not mistaken it's less than half a percent of the Country radio audience. Forgive me if I don't think that's nearly enough to represent the public opinion. Futhermore comparing callout to political polling for me is problematic. For one political polling is more important and more thought is usually given to it. It's also only usually asking you which one candidate are you voting for, not what's your opinion on multiple songs. At any given time there's around 30 songs I'd happily give high marks for in a callout survey, while on a political one I'll usually have only one choice. It's just flawed thinking to me to put so much stock into callout to determine the impact of a song on an audience. It's only real use is for stations to determine which songs have the lowest tune-out which is not equivalent to passion. You bring up good points here. I definitely agree that a bigger sample size always helps to determine opinions better. I also agree that asking fewer questions leads to better results. I'm not sure how callout works, whether each person surveyed gets asked their opinion on every song in the top 30, or if they just try a few songs with each individual person, but I agree that trying just a few songs with each person would work better. Anyway, y'all know I think the whole system is flawed frankly lol. In a perfect world, music would start out local and artists would send in music to their local stations. The stations would then play the songs and call listeners to ask which songs they liked the best, and play those more. Those songs would eventually get noticed and start getting played in other markets until they became national hits.
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Post by Naos on Jun 20, 2019 15:29:03 GMT -5
but, that's how statistics work. Increasing the sample size beyond a certain # doesn't make the results better. However, the fact that the building chart shows this increased 22% over last week is ridiculous. As is the whole wait for your turn bull. But having such a tiny percentage definitely isn't representative of the population. This is just a push of max spins for #1 like a lot of singles do. And far smaller hits recently have gone to #1, like "Love Ain't" and "Make It Sweet".
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 20, 2019 15:39:26 GMT -5
I think "Love Ain't" and "Make It Sweet" will end up higher on the recurrent airplay charts than this, though. "Love Ain't" is actually the #1 recurrent right now, and "Make It Sweet" is at #8, behind only a couple Luke Combs songs, Jason Aldean's last big hit, Jimmie Allen's "Best Shot," Chase Rice's "Eyes on You," and of course the recently dropped "On My Way to You." Seems like these songs are still being remembered as big hits based on research of those tens of millions of listeners' opinions.
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Post by lady𝓐fan on Jun 20, 2019 15:44:20 GMT -5
I feel like we've been going in circles about this for ages. I think it's evident that no one's opinion is changing, so let's maybe drop this topic...
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Jun 20, 2019 17:37:00 GMT -5
I know for a fact that BMLG wants the Billboard #1 too. That’s why the gains for Thomas have been ridiculous this week.
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Post by Naos on Jun 21, 2019 4:06:03 GMT -5
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jun 21, 2019 8:58:14 GMT -5
I know for a fact that BMLG wants the Billboard #1 too. That’s why the gains for Thomas have been ridiculous this week. You can say that again: 6 1 THOMAS RHETT Look What God Gave Her 7997 6788 1209 47.659
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Post by countryisking on Jun 21, 2019 10:16:10 GMT -5
I think if anything is clear it's that the massive gains are an indication that radio knew of something that was holding this song back...
If all was well this would have cruised to the top, no hysterics necessary.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jun 21, 2019 14:38:24 GMT -5
#1 in Canada!
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Post by Carriefan1190 on Jun 24, 2019 11:36:29 GMT -5
All I’m going to say is the chart manipulation on this song disgusts me. Looks like Lee Brice is going to be robbed of a #1 by this.
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jhomes87
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Post by jhomes87 on Jun 24, 2019 11:41:39 GMT -5
All I’m going to say is the chart manipulation on this song disgusts me. Looks like Lee Brice is going to be robbed of a #1 by this. Not a chance. Lee will easily finish this week at #1. I'm annoyed by Thomas' big push too, but it won't keep Lee from the top spot. He just has to wait another week, that's all (although there is a possibility that Lee will be #1 on tonight's Billboard chart already).
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CoJoFan
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Post by CoJoFan on Jun 24, 2019 12:19:56 GMT -5
All I’m going to say is the chart manipulation on this song disgusts me. Looks like Lee Brice is going to be robbed of a #1 by this. Not a chance. Lee will easily finish this week at #1. I'm annoyed by Thomas' big push too, but it won't keep Lee from the top spot. He just has to wait another week, that's all (although there is a possibility that Lee will be #1 on tonight's Billboard chart already). Lee will have to wait another week! 13th Billboard #1 for Thomas! www.wbwn.com/2019/06/24/thomas-rhett-hits-number-one-with-look-what-god-gave-her/
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austin
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Post by austin on Jun 24, 2019 13:16:10 GMT -5
Pretty low-impact #1 for him, but Remember You Young and Notice should be huge smash hits.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jun 24, 2019 13:34:53 GMT -5
Pretty low-impact #1 for him, but Remember You Young and Notice should be huge smash hits. I guess it was low impacting for him, but overall this was a pretty big hit. Not one that will be remembered for decades but a solid hit of the year. Even if I just realized that besides "Vacation" he hasn't had a single peak below the Top 50 on the Hot 100 since "It Goes Like This". That is impressive.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Jun 24, 2019 19:40:00 GMT -5
This won the #1 spot on Billboard Country Airplay by just 94k in total audience. That’s essentially 2 spins from a big market like New York City or Houston, on a station like WNSH or KKBQ.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 24, 2019 19:53:56 GMT -5
I get why people think this one didn't move mountains for him because of the way it slowed down at country radio and didn't test the best on callout, but by all metrics this was a big ole hit for Thomas Rhett. Based on chart success (like its Hot 100 peak), it did a bit better than his last two lead singles and out-performed all his singles from Life Changes except for "Marry Me." It's also technically even the biggest crossover hit he's had thus far since it's done better on the Adult Pop Songs chart (by reaching the top 20) than "Die a Happy Man" did (which peaked at #25). All-in-all, "Look What Got Gave Her" was no slouch for Rhett here.
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Jun 24, 2019 19:58:54 GMT -5
I get why people think this one didn't move mountains for him because of the way it slowed down at country radio and didn't test the best on callout, but by all metrics this was a big ole hit for Thomas Rhett. Based on chart success (like its Hot 100 peak), it did a bit better than his last two lead singles and out-performed all his singles from Life Changes except for "Marry Me." It's also technically even the biggest crossover hit he's had thus far since it's done better on the Adult Pop Songs chart (by reaching the top 20) than "Die a Happy Man" did (which peaked at #25). All-in-all, "Look What Got Gave Her" was no slouch for Rhett here. Think it's also because it was surrounded by bigger hits (at least in country), and only peaked at #5 on hot country. Think that made this look relatively smaller
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Post by Naos on Jun 25, 2019 4:18:27 GMT -5
Hot 100: #37 (+2) Country Airplay: #1 (+4) Country Songs: #5 (+1) Adult Pop Songs: #18 (+1)
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dajross6
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Post by dajross6 on Jun 25, 2019 12:08:18 GMT -5
I think it feels a bit more massive than it is because it's really starting to take off at Hot AC, with a possible future at Top 40. We could be hearing this song for the next 5-6 months on pop radio.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 25, 2019 17:26:21 GMT -5
I get why people think this one didn't move mountains for him because of the way it slowed down at country radio and didn't test the best on callout, but by all metrics this was a big ole hit for Thomas Rhett. Based on chart success (like its Hot 100 peak), it did a bit better than his last two lead singles and out-performed all his singles from Life Changes except for "Marry Me." It's also technically even the biggest crossover hit he's had thus far since it's done better on the Adult Pop Songs chart (by reaching the top 20) than "Die a Happy Man" did (which peaked at #25). All-in-all, "Look What Got Gave Her" was no slouch for Rhett here. If it's a hit on the Hot 100, why not let that be its reward and leave radio listeners who dislike it alone? This #1 on radio was unnecessary.
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.indulgecountry
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"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 25, 2019 17:53:19 GMT -5
I get why people think this one didn't move mountains for him because of the way it slowed down at country radio and didn't test the best on callout, but by all metrics this was a big ole hit for Thomas Rhett. Based on chart success (like its Hot 100 peak), it did a bit better than his last two lead singles and out-performed all his singles from Life Changes except for "Marry Me." It's also technically even the biggest crossover hit he's had thus far since it's done better on the Adult Pop Songs chart (by reaching the top 20) than "Die a Happy Man" did (which peaked at #25). All-in-all, "Look What Got Gave Her" was no slouch for Rhett here. If it's a hit on the Hot 100, why not let that be its reward and leave radio listeners who dislike it alone? This #1 on radio was unnecessary. I don't even like this song so I hate having to defend it, but this is nonsensical. At some point I remember you posting something about 1 in 5 listeners not liking it based on the callout... that's still 80% of people who do like the song then, so why should they not get to hear it? I've seen a lot of songs hit #1 on the charts that I'd call "unnecessary" and this isn't one of them. And its Hot 100 position was influenced by radio play too so it's not as if that didn't factor into its success on that chart as well. Again, I'm not even a fan of the song (and would've been perfectly fine if it had missed #1), but there is no solid case that can be made that says this song was not a hit and this obsession you have with callout numbers superseding literally everything else is tiring. Nobody cares honey.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 25, 2019 17:57:50 GMT -5
If it's a hit on the Hot 100, why not let that be its reward and leave radio listeners who dislike it alone? This #1 on radio was unnecessary. I don't even like this song so I hate having to defend it, but this is nonsensical. At some point I remember you posting something about 1 in 5 listeners not liking it based on the callout... that's still 80% of people who do like the song then, so why should they not get to hear it? I've seen a lot of songs hit #1 on the charts that I'd call "unnecessary" and this isn't one of them. And its Hot 100 position was influenced by radio play too so it's not as if that didn't factor into its success on that chart as well. Again, I'm not even a fan of the song (and would've been perfectly fine if it had missed #1), but there is no solid case that can be made that says this song was not a hit and this obsession you have with callout numbers superseding literally everything else is tiring. Nobody cares honey. I'm sorry if you don't like me talking about the research, but that's kind of how I determine what the general radio-listening public wants to hear. Basically, what I'm seeing is 1 in 5 listeners not wanting to hear this song. Sure, that means 4 in 5 are fine with it, but there are plenty of other songs that they'd much prefer over this. So why play this over those? I think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that this is a lead single from one of the top names in country music. And that's just not right. We should be fair to everyone. Enough of this name recognition stuff allowing songs to become hits. We need to let the smaller people in. I think that would actually allow a lot more females to break through, tbh.
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.indulgecountry
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"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 25, 2019 18:13:14 GMT -5
I don't even like this song so I hate having to defend it, but this is nonsensical. At some point I remember you posting something about 1 in 5 listeners not liking it based on the callout... that's still 80% of people who do like the song then, so why should they not get to hear it? I've seen a lot of songs hit #1 on the charts that I'd call "unnecessary" and this isn't one of them. And its Hot 100 position was influenced by radio play too so it's not as if that didn't factor into its success on that chart as well. Again, I'm not even a fan of the song (and would've been perfectly fine if it had missed #1), but there is no solid case that can be made that says this song was not a hit and this obsession you have with callout numbers superseding literally everything else is tiring. Nobody cares honey. I'm sorry if you don't like me talking about the research, but that's kind of how I determine what the general radio-listening public wants to hear. Basically, what I'm seeing is 1 in 5 listeners not wanting to hear this song. Sure, that means 4 in 5 are fine with it, but there are plenty of other songs that they'd much prefer over this. So why play this over those? I think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that this is a lead single from one of the top names in country music. And that's just not right. We should be fair to everyone. Enough of this name recognition stuff allowing songs to become hits. We need to let the smaller people in. I think that would actually allow a lot more females to break through, tbh. Callout is typically flawed against females more so than it is for men, so if radio pays more attention to that (which they already do -- its why songs that test well but nobody gives a shit about enough to stream or buy them sometimes cruise to #1 while songs that had passionate followings end up peaking lower), then it absolutely will not help more females break through, lol. I'm sorry, but it's just obvious at this point that if you're this massively in-tuned with callout while totally dismissive of everything else that factors into a song becoming a hit, then there's just no point re-hashing this argument. You've made your point countless times, and it doesn't change (no matter how many times people try to point out the flaws in your narrow argument), and at this point I can tell the majority are just kind of "done" hearing it brought up constantly. There's nothing to gain from this.
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thewp
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Post by thewp on Jun 25, 2019 18:52:31 GMT -5
If this song hit #1 last week because of 22% increase and the building chart now shows 25% decrease in audience, doesn’t that show that it never deserved to be #1?
If they could only make it happen this week, then maybe they should’ve just taken the loss.
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Post by KeepDeanWeird on Jun 25, 2019 18:53:55 GMT -5
Other than the largely ignored Dance Club Songs no chart is manipulated more by labels than the Country Airplay chart. It's as if last week didn't happen.
1 6 THOMAS RHETT Look What God Gave Her Valory/Republic 1,745 2,352 -25.8%
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Post by Naos on Jun 25, 2019 20:32:21 GMT -5
If this song hit #1 last week because of 22% increase and the building chart now shows 25% decrease in audience, doesn’t that show that it never deserved to be #1? If they could only make it happen this week, then maybe they should’ve just taken the loss. Not at all. There just happened to be a lot of competition, so they took the #1 while they could get it, and I see nothing wrong with doing that before the monster hit of "God's Country" came to #1. It was a very good streamer and seller. It definitely deserved #1 over songs like "Love Ain't", "Make It Sweet", and "Legends".
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 25, 2019 20:36:56 GMT -5
Aside from the research and sales debate, there's a good point to be made about these big pushes. Sometimes, if a record truly does deserve to go to #1, but may run into bad timing a few weeks down the road around the time it rises to the top naturally, what's the harm in pushing a few weeks early when the coast is clear to claim what the song rightfully has earned anyway? Is there really that much of a difference between a hit song getting played a bunch of times in one week vs. a bunch of times spread out over several weeks? I guess listeners may not like hearing the song so much in one week, but if it's truly a hit, however you define hit, then listeners shouldn't mind hearing the song a ton one week? Right?
Not debating whether this was a "true hit" anymore, suppose Thomas hadn't pushed last week and allowed "Rumor" to get to #1. Then he could've risen a bit more organically, maybe allowed "God's Country" to spend two weeks at #1, and then pushed for #1 in week 20. Would that really have been that much of a difference from doing a big push one week?
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thewp
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Post by thewp on Jun 25, 2019 21:24:56 GMT -5
If this song hit #1 last week because of 22% increase and the building chart now shows 25% decrease in audience, doesn’t that show that it never deserved to be #1? If they could only make it happen this week, then maybe they should’ve just taken the loss. Not at all. There just happened to be a lot of competition, so they took the #1 while they could get it, and I see nothing wrong with doing that before the monster hit of "God's Country" came to #1. It was a very good streamer and seller. It definitely deserved #1 over songs like "Love Ain't", "Make It Sweet", and "Legends". Just because you think it deserved #1 over “weaker”songs peaking at different times doesn’t mean this deserves a#1. The whole point of comparing things is that it’s all relative to what’s around it. It really doesn’t matter that Legends was weaker when this one was artificially inflated.
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