Clay Aiken's new album

[XandY]

I'm the President of Clay Aikens Anti-Fan Club - juss doin mah J O B.

Im not kidding.  You can join at [e-mail] 

Put your email address in your Subject title - no emails are EVER opened at that address.  A link to the Clubs website is in the Subject title of the reply you will recieve from [e-mail] so there will be no text inside or reason to open the (empty) email .  

[shandrim]

splitchick59 said:

yeah, I mean...damn. You can dislike Clay without being a total nutcase...

Now, now, you know nutcases can't help being nutcases. If they could control themselves they wouldn't be nutcases to begin with. I should know, I've seen and treated enough psych patients in my line of work.

[Damage]

So you gonna start that thread, shandy? lol

Lemme quit messin with you. :)

so what have you been guessing is his CD title? (clearly i'm bored)

[shandrim]

I'll start the thread when the release date and more album info are offiicially announced. It would feel kind of weird to start a new thread in the "News" section when there are no official news yet.

alex81979 said:

so what have you been guessing is his CD title?  (clearly i'm bored)

I haven't come up with any real guesses yet. I've been having too much fun reading the snarky (and completely unusable) options fans in other boards have come up. Remember, the game is to figure out the acronym for the title. Here are some of the more creative suggestions. I'll let you figure out the acronyms on your own. ;)

Famous And Romantic Tunes

Songs Heard In Time

Clay.... Love Is Timeless

[XandY]

I have one:

Completely
Repulsive
Effiminate
Eelskinned
Pustule

[shandrim]

Wow, that sounds like an amazingly accurate self-portrait, Idaho. Were you looking in the mirror when you came up with that one? LOL.

[XandY]

I have another one:

Whiney
Egocentric
Icky
Ranker
Degenerate
Oddball

[Damage]

Living On Vast Expectations.

(psst, idaho - it's supposed to be four letters)

[XandY]

alex81979 said:

(psst, idaho - it's supposed to be four letters)

I.don't.care.

[shandrim]

alex81979 said:

Living On Vast Expectations.

Living Up To Expectations

[Damage]

lute?

A stringed instrument having a body shaped like a pear sliced lengthwise and a neck with a fretted fingerboard that is usually bent just below the tuning pegs.

A substance, such as dried clay or cement, used to pack and seal pipe joints and other connections or coat a porous surface in order to make it tight.

ROFL! I REALLY think he wants to stay away from being dried clay, stuff that's bent and tight... LMAO.

[Ragin]

idaho said:

shandrim said:

I wonder how haters will react when Clay's new album debuts at #1 again and sells multiplatinum, not to mention when he's all over TV promoting it.  I know I will savor the picture of heads exploding and grouchy people frothing at the mouth as I pay for Clay's new album. :)

I'd like to ask you a question shandrim.  Are you really so "lost" that you believe RCA and the entire rest of the music industry doesn't know that Clays album sales are counterfeit? -   Vastly Inflated, 4,5,6, times as many as they should actually reflect - by crazy delusional old women who buy them by the dozens just to make it appear Aiken is more popular than he really is?  Are you so deep in denial that you don't acknowledge this unique srange "multiple buying syndrome".  

You know, I could be wrong on this, but I don't think I am. It makes very little sense that enough people would do this that it would create "artificial" sales. So an old lady goes and buys 5 copies of the album and gives 4 of them away as gifts to her grandchildren. Even if they all hate it, is it not still legitimate sales? Haven't you ever bought an album that you ended up hating and never listened to before? Does that make the sale artificial? Of course not. Just at a guess, I would say probably no more than a few thousand of his sales are due to that type of buying.

Case in point, Def Leppard. Def Leppard actually still has a pretty rabid fan core, as evidenced by their video Rock On actually making the VH1 top20 on pure voting. Their last album X was released and sold roughly 70,000 copies in its first week. The next album Yeah! was released with MULTIPLE versions. There was a Target version with two extra songs, a Best Buy version with two extra songs, Walmart had a special EP, and Itunes had an extra song. That rabid fan base was obviously going to buy all 3 or 4 versions of the album. Did they sell over 200,000 copies? No. Did they even sell over 100,000? No. They sold 50,000 copies that first week, a DROP of at least 20,000 from their last album. They haven't lost a lot of fans since then either. The only explanation is that multiple copy purchasing isn't as influential as you might think.

[Damage]

I think it's really influential, but I think it's different for me because it's planned by the fans instead of the record company. I saw clay fans buying them to give to people in charities, weekly buying expected, people telling other people where copies were available so that they were constantly being bought, I saw fans researching supply companies to determine how best to get maximum supply out, fans buying multiple copies at concerts, fans buying 10-20 copies at a time, fans discussing how to deliberately space out multiple purchases to mimic normal sales and keep clay atop top 10 lists, et cetera.

That's what sets it apart. Where some other groups fans may buy extra copies, I've seen no documented evidence of this sort of behavior that exists as a rule and basically sets the code for the fanbase to buy multiple copies as a default behavior.

But hey, it's perfectly legal. Billboard doesn't care.

Most people know that clay's sales are inflated by multiple purchases by fans, above and beyond other artists but the extent to which is under dispute.

But even still, while other artists' sales may not be augmented by fans, many have dirty industry people doing things to inflate their sales. I know there are buyback programs and i mean even payola is an example.

So while I know for certain clay's sales are inflated, the numbers of artists in general are funky to begin with.

It's all just some big way to try to say "My artist is better than your artist", and really there just isn't.

As much as someone would like to say clay aiken is a better artist than william hung - he isn't. "madonna is a better artist than clay aiken". Neither of those will ever be a factual statement.


I can live with clay. He's a jackass sometimes and a diva, but in rock and roll he's pretty tame compared to others. Many of his fans just need to realize they don't have to put others down (kelly clarkson) to lift clay up. And there are times clay encourages his fans' behavior.

So when clay's cd comes out, I simply hope him and his fans get back the Karma they sent out. If some fan hasn't done anything wrong, then they have nothing to worry about. For those who have done some really jacked up things, well I hope they get their Karma back. They already have, to some extent, with all the scandals around him.

That's all I ask - don't be surprised when your Karma comes back to you.

[Pink Champagne Ricochet]

Many of his fans just need to realize they don't have to put others down (kelly clarkson) to lift clay up.

and likewise. it seems like no matter HOW successful an artist can get, a small minority of people (some of which happen to be named after states that grow potatoes) just won't leave Clay alone.

And there are times clay encourages his fans' behavior.

now i've heard a quote or two about multiple buying, but I thought that was a joke. even if it wasn't, I haven't seen him encourage bringing down other artists. even during the whole american idol 2 thing when there were Clay fans pissed over the result and trying to protest and shit, he told the fans that he was fine and to leave Ruben alone. I don't think he approves of the extreme fringes of his fandom's behavior, but then again I don't think to blame any artist for what some of their fans do.

[Damage]

some of which happen to be named after states that grow potatoes

Washington??

Denzel is a bastard! ;)

I don't think he approves of the extreme fringes of his fandom's behavior

why are clay fans attacking kelly?

I don't think it's the extreme fringes either. I wish clay would tell his fans to just chill and enjoy his music. Clay fans don't have this reputation for nothing, you know. :(

That's all most people want - clay fans to just chill and stop trashing other people. :(

[XandY]

splitchick59 said:

And there are times clay encourages his fans' behavior.

now i've heard a quote or two about multiple buying, but I thought that was a joke. I don't think he approves of the extreme fringes of his fandom's behavior

splitchick - sorry, but I just don't believe you're that UNINFORMED not to know of the explicitly planned and orchestrated multiple buying campaigns the Claymates executed to counterfeit Aikens sales and gift every member of their families, co-workers, and every resident of every nursing home in america with Clay Aiken CDs.   As for your statement Clay doesn't approve of his fans behaviour - again I don't think you're that UNINFORMED.  The ENTIRE agenda for the Claymates for the Independent Tour was to humiliate Kelly Clarkson and her fans in a bid to make Aiken appear more popular than Clarkson - Clay was accutely aware of that and relished.every.moment.of.it.

Karma is indeed a b*tch and she has lots of tricks up her sleeve for the Claymates and Clay Aiken.  You're faux-ignorance and rationalization of these things seems exactly the kind of insincerity Karma tirelessly searches for to express her extreme passion avenging.

Billborad Magazine doesn't care.

Yes they do.  Their have been many articles about the fraud multiples represents and they've expressed intense worry about fraudulent multiple single downloads.  Aikens main fan board has already formulated a plan for the Claymates to multiple-buy several of the singles from Akens next album the first 6 weeks of it's release to top the Billboard Singles Charts.  Their plan is for Aikens entire internet fanbase to buy 10-20 singles per week, each,  for 6 weeks or more so the top 2 or 3 songs on the singles chart are all Clay Aiken singles.  After the moderators warned the members not to post the plan in the publically viewable SALES AND STATS forum of The Clayboard they were moved to the secret non-public Clayboard forum.

Billboard has said in recent articles it will only count one download of a song per IP address as a legitimate sale but their monitoring is dependent on the integrity of the vendors who report their sales.  The abuse of remote server fraud is already under intense scrutiny. 

[shandrim]

alex81979 said:

I think it's really influential, but I think it's different for me because it's planned by the fans instead of the record company.  I saw clay fans buying them to give to people in charities, weekly buying expected, people telling other people where copies were available so that they were constantly being bought, I saw fans researching supply companies to determine how best to get maximum supply out, fans buying multiple copies at concerts, fans buying 10-20 copies at a time, fans discussing how to deliberately space out multiple purchases to mimic normal sales and keep clay atop top 10 lists, et cetera.

As someone who has spent tons of time on multiple Clay boards, I can say those claims are wildly exaggerated. I think all the talk of multiple CD buying is a cheap excuse for people who don't want to acknowledge Clay's success. Yes, some fans bought extra copies,mostly for relatives or friends. But guess what? Every fandom does that. That's pretty much what intense fans do in every fanbase. I doubt it accounts for more than a few thousand CDs. Let's go all out and say it counts for 10,000 or 20,000 (which I don't believe). When a guy has sold over 2.7 million copies, that is peanuts.

That's what sets it apart.  Where some other groups fans may buy extra copies, I've seen no documented evidence of this sort of behavior that exists as a rule and basically sets the code for the fanbase to buy multiple copies as a default behavior.

Oh, you want documented evidence of other fanbases buying 10 or more CDs? It's easy. Just scroll through this thread, talking about multiple CD buying. Many fans bought 5, 7 or 10 CDs, with some buying 15 and some even buying 50 copies. That's definite evidence of an organized CD buying campaign, only it's not for Clay. That campaign was for first week's sales of Kelly's Breakaway, and guess what? It still sold less in the first week than her first album did (this is not a slam on Kelly, since it's pretty obvious that her CD has sold up the wazoo, just an example of what all fanbases do and how little it impacts sales in the end). Just goes to show that:

1) Every fanbase does the same thing, so anyone who accuses Clay fans of buying multiple CDs is just the pot calling the kettle black.

2)Multiple CD buys don't have that big an impact on sales.

alex81979 said:

some of which happen to be named after states that grow potatoes

why are clay fans attacking kelly?

I don't think it's the extreme fringes either.  I wish clay would tell his fans to just chill and enjoy his music.  Clay fans don't have this reputation for nothing, you know.  :(

That's all most people want - clay fans to just chill and stop trashing other people.  :(

Huh? Where are Clay fans attacking Kelly? I know that the opposite is true, that a few Kelly fans love attacking Clay (waves to idaho, 7thfairway, etc). The difference is that we acknowledge that those are just people in the extreme fringes of the Kelly fandom and not representative of normal fans, to the extent that some of those people been banned from pretty much every Kelly fan board. They have also been banned from this board on several occasions, but unfortunately they keep coming back.

If you go to the Clay message boards, you'll see that most of them have very positive fan threads for Kelly. Actually, most Clay fans were very excited and happy to see Clay show up at Kelly's concert last night, and to hear that they were seen having dinner together the night before (Ruben Studdard was with them) and that Clay was the one that dropped her off at the concert. I think that if you spend time actually checking what the Clay fans are saying instead of what a couple of haters say Clay fans are saying, you'll find that the truth is very different from what the haters advertise. Idaho has more than shown that it's other idol fans who love attacking Clay and Clay fans, not the other way around. If anything, you'll see that a lot of Clay fans are also Kelly fans.

[XandY]

shandrim said:

Huh?  Where are Clay fans attacking Kelly?

The thread at the Clayboard now is NOT the thread that WAS there until the moderators edited out the bashes and told the members to knock off the Kelly bashing.  Most of the thread was very negative until Aiken was actually confirmed to be at the concert. 

Your attempts to hide the truth is typical Claymate BS.

As for you claims multiple buying doesn't make up much of Aikens CD sales - MTVs message boards have been consistant in their claims 75% of Aikens MOAM CD sales were the result of planned Claymate "multiple buying". I believe it's actually more pervasive than that.

[shandrim]

idaho said:

As for you claims multiple buying doesn't make up much of Aikens CD sales - MTVs message boards have been consistant in their claims 75% of Aikens MOAM CD sales were the result of planned Claymate "multiple buying".  I believe it's actually more pervasive than that.

Oh, MTV message boards. So that's where all the industry insiders with access to sales numbers and distribution hang out. Those are probably your own posts, under your 20 (30? 40? how many have you got by now?) different aliases. Not exactly a fountain of credibility.

Psst. Just a hint. When you're trying to sell something like that, don't go for such ridiculously high numbers. Takes away from any credibility you might have had.

[Damage]

seriously though shandrim - clay fans have taken it to another level.

if you want me to believe you're arguing earnestly, you should link to all the multiple buying posts you've seen at clay sites. Not at kelly sites. This is a clay thread, right?

But every time you're asked, you try to act like it doesn't exist or try to act like it is no different from any other fanbase.

that's just a flat out lie.

But if you read my post, you'll see where i say it doesn't matter anyway, because while it's clay's fans that lead the multiple purchases, other artists have other ways of cheating the system.

so all the numbers are wonky.

but seriously, keep it real and share what you know about clay fans' multiple purchasing schemes. come clean and share everything you know.

[XandY]

shandrim said:

idaho said:

As for you claims multiple buying doesn't make up much of Aikens CD sales - MTVs message boards have been consistant in their claims 75% of Aikens MOAM CD sales were the result of planned Claymate "multiple buying".   I believe it's actually more pervasive than that.

Oh, MTV message boards.  So that's where all the industry insiders with access to sales numbers and distribution hang out.     Those are probably your own posts, under your 20 (30? 40? how many have you got by now?) different aliases.  Not exactly a fountain of credibility. 

Psst.  Just a hint.  When you're trying to sell something like that, don't go for such ridiculously high numbers.  Takes away from any credibility you might have had.

Psst - shandrim - MTV actually uses the information on their message boards to determine the majorities opinion of an artist and take that angle in their reportage.  The administrator had a chat with the board and confirmed this.  You didn't get the memo?

[shandrim]

idaho said:

shandrim said:

Oh, MTV message boards.  So that's where all the industry insiders with access to sales numbers and distribution hang out.     Those are probably your own posts, under your 20 (30? 40? how many have you got by now?) different aliases.  Not exactly a fountain of credibility. 

Psst.  Just a hint.  When you're trying to sell something like that, don't go for such ridiculously high numbers.  Takes away from any credibility you might have had.

Psst - shandrim - MTV actually uses the information on their message boards to determine the majorities opinion of an artist and take that angle in their reportage.   The administrator had a chat with the board and confirmed this.   You didn't get the memo?

You really believe that MTV thinks 75% of Clay's sales come from a handful of fans buying 2.7 million copies just because you post it over and over in their message boards. ROFLMAO.

Thanks, I hadn't laughed that hard in a long time.

[XandY]

shandrim said:

idaho said:

Psst - shandrim - MTV actually uses the information on their message boards to determine the majorities opinion of an artist and take that angle in their reportage.   The administrator had a chat with the board and confirmed this.   You didn't get the memo?

You really believe that MTV thinks 75% of Clay's sales come from a handful of fans buying 2.7 million copies just because you post it over and over in their message boards.  ROFLMAO. 

Thanks, I hadn't laughed that hard in a long time.

Oh, I wouldn't call 700,000 people a "handfull of people" - but yea - thats the prevailing opinion of the number of people who actually purchased a MOAM CD.  That number is pegged by VH1 and *shock* OC has admitted it too.  Imagine that!  A Clay Aiken forum that agrees 75% of the sales of MOAM are counterfeit.

[Damage]

Well it's not as absurd as one would normally think (though i personally don't believe it)

One of clay's fans paid $15,000 for his handprints.

With that kind of disposable income, yes, it's possible (though again, I don't personally believe that).

See that's what sets clay's fanbase apart - an enormous amount of disposable income. Some fans may talk about doing things, but I've seen the strategic planning that goes on and people have enormous sums ($15,000 is an example) of money. The linked article says the person beat out 83 other bidders, so it's evident that numerous clay fans have lots of money to spend. Even if it's a tax writeoff, that's an enormous sum. More than a lot of people make in a year.

See here's the rub - if you say "responsible for", i'd believe it, because the constant buying keeps the cd in top 10 lists. That spurs more sales by people who begin to believe the cd is legitimately in the top 10 because of varying groups purchasing it.

But hey, none of that is illegal!

Also, Idaho, I haven't seen any billboard articles that condemn it. I get the distinct impression Billboard cares less. They want people to buy buy buy.

You know....this would make a really good book....

[Damage]

A Clay Aiken forum that agrees 75% of the sales of MOAM are counterfeit.

Well, I was about to quote the definition and say you were wrong:

m-w.com/dictionary/counterfeit

Forged - nah, those are actual transactions - money changes hands
Insincere - lol, oh they're sincere alright
Feigned - again, nope

Imitation - here it's kind of tricky. In a way it really is imitation. But then again, I've never seen anything differentiating real from imitation with the exception of the actual producers (distributors, record label, paid agents of the artist or their management) doing the purchasing.

so I'd say they aren't counterfeit sales. There's really no way to prove why someone is buying 10 cd's unless they admit it (even though it's patently obvious what's going on when it has anything to do with an idol contestant).

[GiggaWho]

Let's steer away from the crazy fans stuff and steer back to the original topic, please. If you've forgotten, here's what it was:

Clay posted on his fanclub and said this new album will be covers of famous love songs from the last 25 years and a few original songs.

What do you think of this and will this album be mega successful or will it have mediocre success in comparison to his debut album?

Opinions.....

[Damage]

Heh, okay. I still don't think it'll be mostly covers, but I guess only time will tell. I don't think it'll be successful in the way that i define success. that's my opinyone :)

[jezebel]

Wow, couldn't everyone just have had a nice 4th?

And as an admitted Clay fan (and proud of it) it's a little hard to believe all the condemning of Clay fans when it conveniently comes from fans of other "idols". Not saying everyone doesn't have a right to their opinion but when the heaviest Clay/Clay fan bashing and ridiculous questioning of his sales comes from other idol's fans, it smacks of an agenda to me.

Back on topic, I'm still in a wait and see about how well the new cd is going to do. I hope it is not all covers, and I hope the covers are suprising and well done. But I guess we'll all see in a couple of months. We can all argue again then.

[Damage]

I think an agenda is part of it for some. But also you have to remember that the only way you see a lot of this stuff is if you're a fan of another american idol contestant. Keep that in mind :) Whistleblowers are people who work in the same industry, so it only makes sense.

so apparently clay's release date is september 26th?

[How Do You Do?]

What is it about this guy that makes everyone so crazy?

Personally, I think it's a mistake to release a full CD or even a CD that's 3/4s full of covers. There's not a lot of longevity to careers based in covers. Yes, Barry Manilow and Rod Stewart have done cover albums, but decades after they have released original music.

I do think if his CD is mostly covers it will struggle to sell as much as his debut album.