hidizzyguy
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hello
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Post by hidizzyguy on Apr 4, 2008 2:27:04 GMT -5
Congrats on her Billboard record, she must be so happy. But there's still tons of work to be done. She needs to reach the level of respect and legendary status that her peers (Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston) have already acheived (at the same or younger ages btw). She needs to become an icon. She needs to learn how to peform and get some stage presence. She needs classic songs that are remembered once they are gone from the Billboard Hot 100. 50 Years from now, people will still remember Elvis and Beatle songs, not Mariah songs. She needs to change that. She needs to gain the respect of the music industry (more Grammys, lifetime achievemnt awards etc). She needs to learn to sing with emotion and passion. Singing is more than just hitting high notes, melisma, and fluffy layerings. She need to dig in to a song and connect with it. (We Belong Together was a good start) She needs to take herself seriously. Act like a woman, not a 12 year old girl. She needs to take a risk and be creative. She hasn't strayed from her Billboard Hot 100 Hit Making formula ever. Bottom line, being a legend that is remembered and talked about years later is more than just Billboard Chart success. She's still got quite a long way to go. *prepares to be called a hater* I'm sorry, but I think she's achieved EVERY one of these
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franxisco66
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Post by franxisco66 on Apr 4, 2008 2:46:45 GMT -5
^ No she hasnt
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Post by busyboy on Apr 4, 2008 3:49:31 GMT -5
Congrats on her Billboard record, she must be so happy. But there's still tons of work to be done. She needs to take a risk and be creative. She hasn't strayed from her Billboard Hot 100 Hit Making formula ever.I'm sorry, but I think she's achieved EVERY one of these I can give her every point on K Newman's list (although I actually don't think that she's some kind of goddess), but the one above she still needs to seriously work on.
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Apr 4, 2008 5:48:11 GMT -5
Madonna is an icon because she's done shizz outside of music. Mariah's just that chick with a lot of #1 singles. She doesn't particularly stand out. I'd say Britney Spears is more of an icon than she is tbh and she's only been around for a decade. I think there is a lot of thruth in this. I really think Brit will surprise us with her "ray of light"album in the future. I am not a fan of her music from the past but I don't know I just see her taking chances music wise for some reason. Mariah is always playing safe. Her music gives me no inspiration at all. She doesn't give me any reason to look for other songs from her. It just feels empty. I don't see her changing styles in the future either. I wish she did. But I do not believe she will. I hope she proves me wrong. But I do congratulate her on breaking the record of the amount of number ones. I will give her some respect for that ;)
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Post by RihannaFANΒ²=ColdUmbrella! on Apr 5, 2008 3:02:19 GMT -5
Congrats on her Billboard record, she must be so happy. But there's still tons of work to be done. She needs to reach the level of respect and legendary status that her peers (Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston) have already acheived (at the same or younger ages btw). She needs to become an icon. She needs to learn how to peform and get some stage presence. She needs classic songs that are remembered once they are gone from the Billboard Hot 100. 50 Years from now, people will still remember Elvis and Beatle songs, not Mariah songs. She needs to change that. She needs to gain the respect of the music industry (more Grammys, lifetime achievemnt awards etc). She needs to learn to sing with emotion and passion. Singing is more than just hitting high notes, melisma, and fluffy layerings. She need to dig in to a song and connect with it. (We Belong Together was a good start) She needs to take herself seriously. Act like a woman, not a 12 year old girl. She needs to take a risk and be creative. She hasn't strayed from her Billboard Hot 100 Hit Making formula ever. Bottom line, being a legend that is remembered and talked about years later is more than just Billboard Chart success. She's still got quite a long way to go. *prepares to be called a hater* I'm sorry, but I think she's achieved EVERY one of these ^lol she has yet to except being a "icon".
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Post by die Lotterie on Apr 5, 2008 4:40:19 GMT -5
Congrats on her Billboard record, she must be so happy. But there's still tons of work to be done. She needs to reach the level of respect and legendary status that her peers (Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston) have already acheived (at the same or younger ages btw). How are those artists her peers if she doesn't have the same legendary status and level of respect? I really don't think that makes much sense. I don't think she needs to do anything. She needs to conitnue making the music that she likes, and the music that we, her fans like and relate to. That is what has kept her afloat for almost 20 years. She is best doing what she does. She just needs to be Mariah. Mariah doesn't need to go out of her way to achieve anything, If it happens it happens. Mariah has the ability to have a very long career if she continues to make the right choices.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 5, 2008 9:38:58 GMT -5
She needs to take a risk and be creative. She hasn't strayed from her Billboard Hot 100 Hit Making formula ever. Bottom line, being a legend that is remembered and talked about years later is more than just Billboard Chart success. Yeah I can't believe she's third behind the Beatles and Elvis...IMO she/her producers saw that Billboard was usin a multi-format approach to the Hot 100, and either purposely or inadvertantly took advantage of it - it's meaningless though IMO unless the public considers her a superstar, and it just doesn't seem like it yet (esp. cause she doesn't have huge sold-out concerts like Madonna, Dave Matthews, etc.), or the media coverage of Eminem, 50 Cent, Britney, even Chad Kroeger/Nickelback #1s on the Billboard Hot 100 IMO don't mean anything unless they become songs that the public knows and remembers...and I think that's really what's holdin Mariah back from "superstardom" (at least in the public eye) - Alanis got a lot more press coverage in the 90s than Mariah did, and songs like Ironic, You Learn, and Head Over Feet are gettin ridiculous amounts of recurrent play even today, more than any one single by Mariah from the 90s...It might be that CHR #1s (that have longevity and become recurrent hits) are more important in the public eye, and really don't think Mariah has that except for We Belong Together and Always Be My Baby In other words, it doesn't really matter IMO that Love Takes Time and I Don't Wanna Cry hit #1 if they really haven't been played since...even One Sweet Day looked like it was gonna be a gigantic lasting hit when it came out (and was a big #1 even just on CHR), but it virtually disappeared just a year or two later
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Lowe
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Post by Lowe on Apr 5, 2008 11:00:37 GMT -5
She has a lot to do to be known as a legend. She is a singles artist wit a few quality hits...thats all.
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Post by die Lotterie on Apr 5, 2008 11:08:35 GMT -5
She needs to take a risk and be creative. She hasn't strayed from her Billboard Hot 100 Hit Making formula ever. Bottom line, being a legend that is remembered and talked about years later is more than just Billboard Chart success. Yeah I can't believe she's third behind the Beatles and Elvis...IMO she/her producers saw that Billboard was usin a multi-format approach to the Hot 100, and either purposely or inadvertantly took advantage of it - it's meaningless though IMO unless the public considers her a superstar, and it just doesn't seem like it yet (esp. cause she doesn't have huge sold-out concerts like Madonna, Dave Matthews, etc.), or the media coverage of Eminem, 50 Cent, Britney, even Chad Kroeger/Nickelback #1s on the Billboard Hot 100 IMO don't mean anything unless they become songs that the public knows and remembers...and I think that's really what's holdin Mariah back from "superstardom" (at least in the public eye) - Alanis got a lot more press coverage in the 90s than Mariah did, and songs like Ironic, You Learn, and Head Over Feet are gettin ridiculous amounts of recurrent play even today, more than any one single by Mariah from the 90s...It might be that CHR #1s (that have longevity and become recurrent hits) are more important in the public eye, and really don't think Mariah has that except for We Belong Together and Always Be My Baby In other words, it doesn't really matter IMO that Love Takes Time and I Don't Wanna Cry hit #1 if they really haven't been played since...even One Sweet Day looked like it was gonna be a gigantic lasting hit when it came out (and was a big #1 even just on CHR), but it virtually disappeared just a year or two later What do you mean she does not have the media coverage that Chad Kroeger, 50, and Eminem have? That's one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. I have never seen Chad on TV, gossip magazines, or on the news. 50 and Eminem? I can't remember the last time I have heard anything about either of them. Mariah definitely gets more media exposure than 50, Eminem, and Chad. She was just on the local news here a couple nights ago.
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jazzyskye10Β²
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Post by jazzyskye10Β² on Apr 5, 2008 13:59:13 GMT -5
Congrats on her Billboard record, she must be so happy. But there's still tons of work to be done. She needs to reach the level of respect and legendary status that her peers (Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston) have already acheived (at the same or younger ages btw). How are those artists her peers if she doesn't have the same legendary status and level of respect? I really don't think that makes much sense. I don't think she needs to do anything. She needs to conitnue making the music that she likes, and the music that we, her fans like and relate to. That is what has kept her afloat for almost 20 years.
She is best doing what she does. She just needs to be Mariah. Mariah doesn't need to go out of her way to achieve anything, If it happens it happens. Mariah has the ability to have a very long career if she continues to make the right choices.Exactly. Great post. :)
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 5, 2008 15:37:38 GMT -5
Yeah I can't believe she's third behind the Beatles and Elvis...IMO she/her producers saw that Billboard was usin a multi-format approach to the Hot 100, and either purposely or inadvertantly took advantage of it - it's meaningless though IMO unless the public considers her a superstar, and it just doesn't seem like it yet (esp. cause she doesn't have huge sold-out concerts like Madonna, Dave Matthews, etc.), or the media coverage of Eminem, 50 Cent, Britney, even Chad Kroeger/Nickelback #1s on the Billboard Hot 100 IMO don't mean anything unless they become songs that the public knows and remembers...and I think that's really what's holdin Mariah back from "superstardom" (at least in the public eye) - Alanis got a lot more press coverage in the 90s than Mariah did, and songs like Ironic, You Learn, and Head Over Feet are gettin ridiculous amounts of recurrent play even today, more than any one single by Mariah from the 90s...It might be that CHR #1s (that have longevity and become recurrent hits) are more important in the public eye, and really don't think Mariah has that except for We Belong Together and Always Be My Baby In other words, it doesn't really matter IMO that Love Takes Time and I Don't Wanna Cry hit #1 if they really haven't been played since...even One Sweet Day looked like it was gonna be a gigantic lasting hit when it came out (and was a big #1 even just on CHR), but it virtually disappeared just a year or two later What do you mean she does not have the media coverage that Chad Kroeger, 50, and Eminem have? That's one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. I have never seen Chad on TV, gossip magazines, or on the news. 50 and Eminem? I can't remember the last time I have heard anything about either of them. Mariah definitely gets more media exposure than 50, Eminem, and Chad. She was just on the local news here a couple nights ago. Maybe it's a regional thing...I just rarely see her covered by any media (and really haven't since the earlier 90s) - esp. compared to Kelly Clarkson, Daughtry, Nickelback, Madonna, 50, Eminem, and (in the mid-late 90s) Alanis And while the others come through with huge sellout concert tours with ridiculously enthusiastic fans, she never does (at least around here)...
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tyrone25
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Post by tyrone25 on Apr 6, 2008 0:26:47 GMT -5
She needs to take a risk and be creative. She hasn't strayed from her Billboard Hot 100 Hit Making formula ever. Bottom line, being a legend that is remembered and talked about years later is more than just Billboard Chart success. Yeah I can't believe she's third behind the Beatles and Elvis...IMO she/her producers saw that Billboard was usin a multi-format approach to the Hot 100, and either purposely or inadvertantly took advantage of it - it's meaningless though IMO unless the public considers her a superstar, and it just doesn't seem like it yet (esp. cause she doesn't have huge sold-out concerts like Madonna, Dave Matthews, etc.), or the media coverage of Eminem, 50 Cent, Britney, even Chad Kroeger/Nickelback #1s on the Billboard Hot 100 IMO don't mean anything unless they become songs that the public knows and remembers...and I think that's really what's holdin Mariah back from "superstardom" (at least in the public eye) - Alanis got a lot more press coverage in the 90s than Mariah did, and songs like Ironic, You Learn, and Head Over Feet are gettin ridiculous amounts of recurrent play even today, more than any one single by Mariah from the 90s...It might be that CHR #1s (that have longevity and become recurrent hits) are more important in the public eye, and really don't think Mariah has that except for We Belong Together and Always Be My Baby In other words, it doesn't really matter IMO that Love Takes Time and I Don't Wanna Cry hit #1 if they really haven't been played since...even One Sweet Day looked like it was gonna be a gigantic lasting hit when it came out (and was a big #1 even just on CHR), but it virtually disappeared just a year or two laterThat's the thing, nobody outside Billboard magazine or her fan base can name even 10 of her 18 #1 hits , they all are either ballads or those fluffy pop songs that soon become hip hop remixed versions that all get confused with one another. I don't know them all, but i know she has the same old style year after year and never strays *yawns*
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 6, 2008 21:38:06 GMT -5
^Yeah completely agree...on CHR she's only had 14 #1 hits (according to R&R), but most of them were short-lived songs from the 1990-1992 pre-Mediabase era when R&R still used station playlists, and almost any decent-sized hit reached #1 (Can't Let Go, Emotions, I Don't Wanna Cry, Make It Happen, etc.)
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nitro
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Post by nitro on Apr 7, 2008 0:44:42 GMT -5
I think it's really hard to judge an artist's future impact when his/her career isn't even close to over yet. I think she is definitely in the same league as Madonna and Whitney, even though it's not fair to compare Mariah to them because they have an extra 10 years or so on Mariah. At least give her another 15-20 years. Assuming her voice stays in tact, she still has a long way to go. I mean if Celine Dion can sell out Vegas for six months with just a few hits and a limited fanbase, imagine Mariah's potential 10-15 years from now. Mariah's a baby compared to many she's being compared to. It would be more appropriate to compare her to people who have been in the industry as long as she has or are around the same age, such as J Lo, Celine Dion, Mary J blige. And her international cred is starting to increase greatly... she is HUGE in many parts of Asia. She is not as popular in Europe, but it's starting to turn around. I think she needs to achieve bigger international status.
I think Mariah needs to conquer her biggest dissenters and make them like her... namely, Perez Hilton and Z100's Elvis Duran!
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Fever
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Post by Fever on Apr 7, 2008 6:22:25 GMT -5
I think it's really hard to judge an artist's future impact when his/her career isn't even close to over yet. I think she is definitely in the same league as Madonna and Whitney, even though it's not fair to compare Mariah to them because they have an extra 10 years or so on Mariah. Neither Whitney nor Mariah are in Madonna's league. Compare their careers after 18 years to Madonna's after 18 years, as somebody already pointed out in this thread.
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jen
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Post by jen on Apr 7, 2008 6:33:51 GMT -5
Mariah has a lot left that she can achieve. -She needs her Ray Of Light album. Mariah needs to experiment with music in a way she hasn't before and needs to become very introspective and reflective. She should experiment with styles and sounds no one would expect from her while still making it appealing to listen to. I partially agree, but I also would say that Butterfly was her Ray Of Light. I think it was in a personal sense but not musically. I would love for her to do some rock, striaight out blues (there was this ringtone she did called Waiting Too Long Blues or something, that was FANTASTIC), dance, and even country ( )
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Player211
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Post by Player211 on Apr 7, 2008 9:20:05 GMT -5
What is the difference between Mariah and icons? Seriously. I agree however, that she needs to be more adventurous with her music, and stop redoing old hits and sticking to a boring, overused formula. Its been years now, and she has yet to produce a truly memorable album. I consider her the most manufactured pop star of all time
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 7, 2008 10:26:21 GMT -5
Neither Whitney nor Mariah are in Madonna's league. Compare their careers after 18 years to Madonna's after 18 years, as somebody already pointed out in this thread. Yeah - Madonna is prob. known by 95% of the country, and can sell out huge stadiums...really don't think Mariah even comes close in terms of popular recognition and the breadth of her fan-base (Whitney seems somewhere in between to me, but IMO that's mainly because of her acting and Bodyguard Soundtrack hits)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 6:26:50 GMT -5
She is a singles artist wit a few quality hits...thats all. Singles artists? Just cause she has 18 #1's, that doesn't make her just a singles artist..She can get records off the shelves too you know unlike some artists.
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Post by staythenight on Apr 8, 2008 7:46:32 GMT -5
She has a lot to do to be known as a legend. She is a singles artist wit a few quality hits...thats all. LOL, you can question her cultural ICONIC level compared to elvis, MJ and Beatles....but anyone who knows music and isnt biased KNOWs she is a LEGEND in musical terms........singles artists?.....she has sold 160M record WW, her tours at almost full capacity around the WORLD, and has influenced POP music over 18 years.....and without a shadow of doubt, is the most succesful artists since her debut in 1990.......i know alot of fans of other Divas dont like the fact she has over shadowed their favs since 1990, but come on GET REAL!!!
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 8, 2008 10:05:32 GMT -5
has influenced POP music over 18 years.....and without a shadow of doubt, is the most succesful artists since her debut in 1990.......i know alot of fans of other Divas dont like the fact she has over shadowed their favs since 1990, but come on GET REAL!!! She def. overshadowed everybody else in the very early 90s, but IMO she was def. overshadowed by Alanis in the mid-90s, the Matchbox 20/Third Eye Blind/Goo Goo Dolls-type bands in the late 90s, boy bands and Britney/Christina around 99-2000, Avril in the earlier 00s, and Kelly Clarkson in the mid-00s - and during this whole period, Madonna seemed to overshadow her at least in terms of public recognition and concert sales
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Post by staythenight on Apr 8, 2008 10:33:16 GMT -5
^ yah the press coverage is one aspect, always newer artists at that moment get more HYPE, but overall since 1990 she has been the most succesful artists, and influenced more artists than any of the ppl u mentioned above, since 1990..... when Britney , or Christina or Eminem, or Alanis, or Lauren Hill came around sure they got more press...........but look at all of them, where are they today? either gone or flopping or almost flopping........18 years later Mariah is still successful, thats what makes her a Legend.......she has shown to be very resilent and withstood all the press scrutiny...she is as relevant in 2008 as she was in 1990, thats more than i can say for alot of artists.......
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 8, 2008 10:53:50 GMT -5
^Yeah I just checked and she has sold more CDs worldwide than any other pop female artist in the past few decades...but if you go by recurrent airplay or concert sales she gets killed - so I guess comparin the success of artists (to each other) is just too difficult lol...at least for me
In terms of influencing other artists, I'd def. say Alanis is on top, since she inspired an enormous slew of pop/alternative female rockers that didn't exist before 1995, and basically created a new genre of music
IMO Mariah's style had already been done before by Whitney Houston (and Janet to some extent)
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 8, 2008 10:55:07 GMT -5
Bob Dylan is a legend in musical terms.
Mariah, maybe a legend or an icon but I wouldn't quite say in "musical" terms... yet, anyway.
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Post by staythenight on Apr 8, 2008 11:31:20 GMT -5
Whats music is so subjective, it all depends on taste, im sure alot of people would consider Bob Dylan or say Johnny Cash, not their cup of tea and diss their music, so its all relative...just glad there variety out there......my main point is that after 18 years of a succesful career, WW success not just american, plus her talents, makes her a legend....
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Player211
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Post by Player211 on Apr 8, 2008 11:50:37 GMT -5
^ yah the press coverage is one aspect, always newer artists at that moment get more HYPE, but overall since 1990 she has been the most succesful artists, and influenced more artists than any of the ppl u mentioned above, since 1990..... when Britney , or Christina or Eminem, or Alanis, or Lauren Hill came around sure they got more press...........but look at all of them, where are they today? either gone or flopping or almost flopping........18 years later Mariah is still successful, thats what makes her a Legend.......she has shown to be very resilent and withstood all the press scrutiny...she is as relevant in 2008 as she was in 1990, thats more than i can say for alot of artists....... This is true. No matter how weak her material has been, and no matter how little an impact she has had on popular culture in general, no one can deny her mega success, resilience and influence. Leona, for example, has received a huge push for being described as the "next Mariah." Certainly, Mariah matters.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 8, 2008 12:14:34 GMT -5
No matter how weak her material has been, and no matter how little an impact she has had on popular culture in general See that's why she doesn't seem like a "superstar" (in the U. S.) to me...the material she puts out and her influence on pop culture seem like the two most important aspects of superstardom to me To put it another way, Alanis spawned a dozen "clones", and so in a way did Matchbox 20 and Usher...for 18 years, Mariah really didn't spawn any (maybe Kelly Clarkson at first, but then she switched up her style and sounded more like Alanis...and now maybe Leona, but it's been 18 years lol)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 12:43:59 GMT -5
No matter how weak her material has been, and no matter how little an impact she has had on popular culture in general See that's why she doesn't seem like a "superstar" (in the U. S.) to me...the material she puts out and her influence on pop culture seem like the two most important aspects of superstardom to me To put it another way, Alanis spawned a dozen "clones", and so in a way did Matchbox 20 and Usher...for 18 years, Mariah really didn't spawn any (maybe Kelly Clarkson at first, but then she switched up her style and sounded more like Alanis...and now maybe Leona, but it's been 18 years lol) Christina Aguilera, Rihanna, Beyonce,....
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K Newman
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Post by K Newman on Apr 8, 2008 14:55:23 GMT -5
Rihanan and Beyonce are not Mariah clones, please. And how is Christina a Mariah clone? I know she influenced her, but so did many other singers. (Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Whitney Houston come to mind).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 15:17:40 GMT -5
Other artists are also influenced by many other artists, so you can not say, Alanis has 18 clones and Mariah has none. See my point?
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