EmersonDrive13Rocks
5x Platinum Member
Buy COUNTRIFIED today!!!!! Includes #1 HIT "MOMENTS" as well as "A Good Man" and "You Still Own Me"!
Joined: December 2005
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Post by EmersonDrive13Rocks on Jun 28, 2008 4:33:45 GMT -5
Also I really hope any of my posts weren't responsible for driving Zazie away since I really respect his posts.
I've actually felt like leaving recently as well though based on a few incidents albeit 1 caused by myself and another in which I was a part of. There is just not enough real discussion in most threads and whenever a discussion does start an argument or fan war usually breaks out.
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Post by reception on Jun 28, 2008 6:26:21 GMT -5
Maybe another thing we can try to improve is going less off-topic off-topic posts, requests for MP3s, personal attacks, those kinds of posts ruin music discussion.
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Jim King
Gold Member
Joined: March 2005
Posts: 922
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Post by Jim King on Jun 28, 2008 8:44:57 GMT -5
I was a regular contributor to the board until about 2 years ago. When I first joined, I felt an obligation to make positive contributions to the board to thank the many members who unselfishly gave me valuable information in their posts. As the noise level here increased, I felt less and less of an obligation and finally stopped posting almost entirely.
To those who post a lot, remember that the board is a reflection of its regular posters, so all you need to do to see what's wrong is to look in the mirror. Posts should be informational, interesting, positive, inclusive, and concise. If you find a interesting discussion, you should not leave that discussion before contributing, even if it's just to thank those who contributed.
By the same token, when you find an objectionable post, ignore it, no matter how tempting it is to jump in to correct or complain. Each reply to any post by a regular poster is a "vote" for that post on the board. Don't vote for things you don't like. The number one motivation for most people when they post is to attract replies, and a bad post that hangs in the air without a response is the best moderation and lesson on the board that I can imagine.
Finally, before you click Post Reply, ask yourself if the post you are about to send is a good ambassador for you and the board. If it isn't, it shouldn't be sent.
Moderation and administration should be way in the background. No discussion of bad behavior or moderation activities. The guidelines are posted, that should be all that's needed. Moderation is all about tolerance, with a few post deletions in extreme cases. As moderator, if you are sending private messages, locking threads, and managing warnings, you have already lost control.
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libby
New Member
Joined: September 2007
Posts: 81
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Post by libby on Jun 28, 2008 8:59:58 GMT -5
I like EmersonDrive13Rocks suggestion of moving the country album threads to this forum. I think that and the restriction of postings updates etc. would take care of some of the concerns here.
kw9461’s suggestion of a Random Thoughts/Off-topic thread might be worth a try. My only concern there is that sometimes the off topic discussions begin in the most unlikely threads and are where I have learned the most.
IMO, respect for other posters and the artists is the bottom line though. Dudley made the observation in the first post that some of it may only be a communication issue. I think that is somewhat true. I am older than a lot of the posters and I tend to appreciate the sarcasm/zingers from the veteran posters mostly because I feel they are usually free of malice. I’m not always so sure of that from some of the newer/younger posters. That could be because I don’t understand their language. I think the use of emoticons has a part to play in this. I appreciate a post that gets the point across without them. I think taking the time to put into words what they’re feeling would make some posters think a little harder about what they are getting ready to post. Quality, not quantity.
^ The above is why I don’t post much. I have a hard time expressing my thoughts, which is why I appreciate it all the more when someone is able to do it.
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Post by zaclord on Jun 28, 2008 11:42:50 GMT -5
thanks to the 2 of you who like my idea to take the country artists general discussion into a subforum in here. i do think that will help a lot
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austin
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Pulse Survivor Sri Lanka Sole Survivor
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Post by austin on Jun 28, 2008 12:48:58 GMT -5
I think taking the time to put into words what they’re feeling would make some posters think a little harder about what they are getting ready to post. Quality, not quantity. ^ The above is why I don’t post much. I have a hard time expressing my thoughts, which is why I appreciate it all the more when someone is able to do it. I agree with this entirely. I have sent PMs out in the past just asking some posters to think about what they are saying because I like them but think that some of the things they say come off childish. Not that I have any authority or am the greatest poster in the land, but I just don't want well-intentioned posters getting booted out of this place just because they don't necessarily word things the right way.
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drock89
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Posts: 10,985
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Post by drock89 on Jun 28, 2008 13:10:35 GMT -5
Problem with the subforum is that posters in the other genres will want to the same thing, and then we're back to square one.
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EmersonDrive13Rocks
5x Platinum Member
Buy COUNTRIFIED today!!!!! Includes #1 HIT "MOMENTS" as well as "A Good Man" and "You Still Own Me"!
Joined: December 2005
Posts: 5,313
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Post by EmersonDrive13Rocks on Jun 29, 2008 3:39:39 GMT -5
The thing is most regular country posters don't go to the album threads and post general discussions about artists since it is outside the country forum.
Thinking before posting is a good thing and something everyone should do including myself. It would cause a lot less problems.
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EmersonDrive13Rocks
5x Platinum Member
Buy COUNTRIFIED today!!!!! Includes #1 HIT "MOMENTS" as well as "A Good Man" and "You Still Own Me"!
Joined: December 2005
Posts: 5,313
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Post by EmersonDrive13Rocks on Jun 29, 2008 3:43:59 GMT -5
I was a regular contributor to the board until about 2 years ago. When I first joined, I felt an obligation to make positive contributions to the board to thank the many members who unselfishly gave me valuable information in their posts. As the noise level here increased, I felt less and less of an obligation and finally stopped posting almost entirely. To those who post a lot, remember that the board is a reflection of its regular posters, so all you need to do to see what's wrong is to look in the mirror. Posts should be informational, interesting, positive, inclusive, and concise. If you find a interesting discussion, you should not leave that discussion before contributing, even if it's just to thank those who contributed. By the same token, when you find an objectionable post, ignore it, no matter how tempting it is to jump in to correct or complain. Each reply to any post by a regular poster is a "vote" for that post on the board. Don't vote for things you don't like. The number one motivation for most people when they post is to attract replies, and a bad post that hangs in the air without a response is the best moderation and lesson on the board that I can imagine. Finally, before you click Post Reply, ask yourself if the post you are about to send is a good ambassador for you and the board. If it isn't, it shouldn't be sent. Moderation and administration should be way in the background. No discussion of bad behavior or moderation activities. The guidelines are posted, that should be all that's needed. Moderation is all about tolerance, with a few post deletions in extreme cases. As moderator, if you are sending private messages, locking threads, and managing warnings, you have already lost control. I completely agree with everything you have posted especially the last part about moderating and administrating. I also completely agree that ignoring posts is the best way to go if they are offend you or are meant to stir up trouble. Like wise I agree that if you an interesting discussion either contribute or thank the people who posted in the thread. Encourage that informative posts and ignore the negative posts.
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Post by luvhonkytonk on Jun 29, 2008 10:42:54 GMT -5
The problem stems from the industry itself. The suits have decided that an adult audience is no longer what they want. They're courting the teens and college age crowd. It is a business and the name of the game is making money. That particular group has the money to spend because they don't have any responsibility. With them comes the "fan war" mentality. I rarely go into any singles threads from the current "hot" artists, because that is mainly what is there.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Jun 29, 2008 14:45:28 GMT -5
Great discussion so far. Thanks so much to everyone who has contributed...I hope you'll continue to do so, and that we hear from more posters, as well. It's nice to see a few familiar names who haven't been posting as much lately, too. I hope that what follows will be taken in the spirit it is meant, which is as a fellow poster who cares about the Country forum, not as a moderator trying to impose her views. The thing that impresses me the most is how much people posting in this thread care about this community and where it goes from here. Philosophically, I'm with Jim King and lumpster in believing that in an ideal world, a moderator isn't necessary. Posters should just self-moderate. But the Pulse staff sent in a moderator because, well, there wasn't enough self-moderation. Because many posters in this forum have proven themselves capable of working out little spats among themselves, I try to avoid overmoderating this forum (I'm sure I don't always succeed) and sometimes don't get involved immediately even if I see trouble brewing. But there is a group of posters in this forum that can't be relied upon to keep an argument from escalating, and until they start living up to what this forum is meant to be, I guess I'm going to have a bit more work to do. In the meantime, here are some extended thoughts on issues raised in this thread: [/size][/b]: A major issue that I've attempted to address through the warning system in place at Pulse. I don't think it is just a "Carrie v. Taylor v. Jessica v. Kellie" thing. The fan war tensions seem stronger among the fanbases (male and female) of female artists, perhaps influenced by an industry that treats its female artists as if there is only room for two or three at a time. I think that this, coupled with the sheer number of Carrie fans at Pulse (that austin referenced), engendered some resentment among a few (but by no means all, or even most) fans of several currently commercially underappreciated female artists. A couple of years ago (probably post-CMAs 2006), I started seeing a few catty comments about Carrie and Carrie's fanbase from people who were obviously very big fans of other female artists. Every now and then, that has resulted in a defensive pile-on and/or responses in kind from a few Carrie fans (who can't or won't learn Jim King's wise approach of just ignoring objectionable posts). That kind of back & forth just makes the board less fun, as austin suggests. With Kellie Pickler's build of a Nashville career, Taylor Swift's commercial success and Jessica Simpson's well-publicized foray into country music, the fan war tensions have only grown among some posters so inclined. So, too, as ShaniaGotchaGood and sbp17 have pointed out, have the number of posters who are accustomed to the more combative world of other forums on this board. I deal with fan wars in the General Artist Discussion A-J forum and have absolutely no patience for them. I agree with Lumpster that no moderator can stamp out the tendency to fan war. But we can enforce the rules on the combatants. This is, admittedly, a bit like whack-a-mole in that new fan war combatants will probably always spring up -- the annoyance probably won't ever fully go away. But I'd like to think that it can be minimized. Let me be clear: I think there is a fair and analytical way to have a comparative discussion of different artists in country music. I also think there is a fair and analytical way to post something critical of or positive about an artist or an artist's song or performance. There is also the fangirl/fanboy way to do both, and that's what tends to bring the level of discussion down. If illustrations would help make this point, I'll try to dig up some posts that illustrate what to do and what not to do. I remember a discussion in the Toby Keith "Love Me If You Can" thread that, although interesting, was touched off by a poster celebrating that song's success by disparaging other country artists in a rather inflammatory way. That the discussion didn't go completely off the rails is a credit to people who responded even-handedly and didn't take the bait. - The Pop Country Effect: I'm a little uncomfortable laying responsibility solely at the feet of any one group of posters, whether we're talking specific fanbases, people of a certain age, etc. As I see it, there is a broader-based issue. I think there are several threads of artists accepted as more traditional country that have a fangirl/fanboy quotient not unlike that found in the threads of artists considered more pop country/country pop. The difference might be that pop country artists like Taylor and Carrie simply have more fans on this board (and, coupled with those numbers, fans more prone to post). I do concede that there are some correlations at work here...Carrie, Taylor, Kellie and Jessica do have a lot of younger fans, as well as pop fans, who are accustomed to a different way of interacting with each other on the Internet than many of us might be. Textspeak, while annoying to those of us (* waves*) who like proper English, doesn't seem as inappropriate. And one-liner chatroom-like exchanges seem more the norm for some people. Personally, that's not what I want to see in the Pulse Country forum. I think kw9461 and luvhonkytonk make a good point that in some ways, the Country forum is merely reflecting (or, perhaps, anticipating) a trend in country music, which now features a lot of female artists with younger fans. At the same time, I don't think it is particularly constructive for there to be a vibe in this forum that "pop country" is inherently less worthy. It shouldn't be "less OK" to like pop country artists than traditional country artists, and I think there is more tension in this forum because some posters feel looked down upon. And at the same time, it's also not less OK to like traditional country artists than pop country artists. The point is that music shouldn't be dismissed or embraced simply on the basis of where it falls on the traditional/contemporary country spectrum. And that we should all look at the mood and manner in which we post to make sure we're not doing the same thing we complain about in others. - Level of Discussion: This is something that I'm not sure I can moderate. I absolutely agree with everyone who has noticed that as the Country forum's traffic has gone up, the level of discussion has declined. It needn't be this way. The proliferation of daily Mediabase updates in some threads hasn't helped. I also think that there is a growing tendency among some posters to treat these threads as a place for advocacy rather than discussion. I feel like there's a growing self-consciousness among some posters here that any online community is capable of generating that intangible "buzz" for a song. So, somehow, there's a feeling that keeping a thread atop a forum, posting Mediabase updates that show a song still bulleted, and posting a one-liner comment every day about how well the song is doing, might actually have an impact on that song and artist's success. After all, it's good "buzz" at a general music message board and I suppose the logic is that perception can become reality. Pretty much every artist has fangirls/fanboys posting similar things at just about every site imaginable to work this angle. I think it detracts from discussion here not only because the posts are more a part of a campaign than actually part of a discussion. Also, I think that campaigning mentality makes discussion more tense and combative than it need be. There is a broader issue of tone. Several people in this thread have noted the need for more respect. I agree with that. I also think several posters need to tone down the drama and the dogma in their posts. Rhetorical flourishes like the use of boldface and ALL CAPS make it seem like you're trying to force your opinion on others, and that doesn't come off well. I think we'll all benefit if people can find a way to communicate their passion without seeming to yell at fellow posters. And then there is the element of overstatement. This isn't the most egregious example, but I remember someone posting a comment in the Miranda Lambert "Gunpowder & Lead" thread that it was "about time" that Miranda had a good year, as if she had been toiling in obscurity for the last several years. I found that comment kind of astonishing given the success of her debut album and all the great critical buzz that she has enjoyed. If it wasn't merely a memory lapse about Miranda's success in previous years (or simply a rhetorical flourish whose value was lost on me), that comment is indicative of the kind of histrionics that makes me less inclined to participate in a conversation. My more general point here is that there is, among some posters, a tendency to overstate success/dominance and a tendency to overstate the lack thereof. I'd like to see people be more careful about this. We're talking about music, and while it's great that people feel passionately about it, it's not usually world peace at stake in our discussions. I think I'm going to get the argument that posting on a music message board shouldn't feel like work, that Pulse is supposed to be fun. I agree with that to some extent, but at the same time, on this forum, people are expected to sit back and think before posting. And when people's carelessness in posting is making the experience less fun for a wide swath of posters, we need to be doing more to find a happy medium between caution and license. Perhaps one thing that can be done is an explicit definition of what is and isn't acceptable conversation in this forum, in the single threads, in the album threads, in the chart threads, and the news threads. - Off-topic posts: I see a suggestion that album threads for country artists be moved from the General Artist Discussion forum to this forum. Frankly, I'm not sure how this would be a solution. First of all, it doesn't do anything to address the "level of discussion" issue raised -- all it does is reward the people who want to talk about random stuff. Second, pulling the country artist threads out of the General Artist Discussion forum (as one person suggested) will just direct people who wish to discuss those artists to this forum, when it really isn't any trouble for people in this forum to just bookmark their favorite country artists' threads in General Artist Discussion and post there. Third, I don't think there is a good logical reason to segregate the discussion of country artists. Fourth, we already have album threads in this forum, typically when kevin59 posts album listening parties. Those threads have been treated as places where news relevant to the artists' professional endeavors can be posted. I know such threads already exist for Alan Jackson, Miranda Lambert, Reba McEntire, LeAnn Rimes, Blake Shelton, Josh Turner and Carrie Underwood, to name a few. Those threads were set up as a compromise of sorts because the country forum regulars wanted to have a "self-sufficient," so to speak, forum where they could discuss country artist news without venturing from this forum. Lately, I think kevin59 has been posting listening parties in the Upcoming Albums thread. But, especially when it comes to this genre's more well-known stars, I see no reason why the listening parties can't be posted as new threads to allow for artist discussion. I do acknowledge, though, that the non-functioning Search function makes finding those album threads more difficult if they're not in the first few pages of this forum. rowdawg21 makes a good point about the impact of off-topic posts, but as I recall, we've actually had some interesting discussions emerge from going off tangents. Here, too, I think it's a matter of the nature of the discussion. The umpteenth rehash of people's favorite Taylor Swift song isn't productive. But a discussion about the various stages of Toby Keith's career and how his music has evolved has the potential to be interesting. I think rowdawg21 is right that it needs to be tied back into whatever the actual topic of the thread is to work. - Mediabase/iTunes updates: To be honest, since I know which threads typically have them, I don't have a problem scrolling on by them. That said, I do see how they interrupt the flow of conversation, and don't see a real need for them unless they are accompanied by a good analysis of what they mean for chart position and any career milestones the artist may have. At the moment, I am leaning toward telling folks not to post Mediabase updates in the singles threads, but to take any discussion of significant chart developments to the Billboard Chart Projections thread. One of the things being discussed in the Mediabase/iTunes updates thread is what defines "significant." [/ul]OK, for anyone who made it through this, congratulations, and I'm sorry. I debated splitting this post up but decided in the end to just let it all out at once. I don't mean to overwhelm this conversation, and hope that people continue to weigh in with their perspectives. Thank you again to everyone who has posted here already.
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bamafan2102
Platinum Member
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 1,780
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Post by bamafan2102 on Jun 29, 2008 15:18:35 GMT -5
I will start by saying that this board is a daily stop for me (most times more than 2 or 3 times a day). I love music and this is the BEST place find out what is going on chart wise, sells wise and everything else. I have slipped into a few of the fan wars stuff but I tried to do it from an industry standpoint.
I have tried to bring what little knowledge I have to the board and a few little extras such as the January Madness Torunament which has been very well received here and I thank 43Duddley for allowing me to do it in the country forum instead of the main Games and Tournaments thread.
With the influx of Taylor, Kellie, and Carrie fans that have come to the board, comes the young folks that this music is targeted to. I feel that these folks should read the board over for a few days and see how the board flows as a whole. Maybe a Crash course thread to kind of go over how things should and should not be posted. For example:
This is a good post-
It seems that Carries new single is rising faster than anything she has released at this point. It looks like she will pass Taylor this week. Hopefully Taylor's song will rebound and get a week at number one after Carrie.
This is a bad post- Carrie's new song sucks. I can't believe Taylor's song is getting passed by this garbage.
Maybe like a "test". Make the "newbies" read the "New Users" thread and send 43 Dudley a IM saying they understand the terms and conditions before they can post.
I am a member of the wackbag website from the Opie and Anthony show. You can not post a new thread until you have a certain number of post and the post must be relevant and not useless. You are graded before you are allowed to post a new thread and if your post stink than you are not allowed to do anything but respond. You are warned once and then out you go if you bring nothing to the table. I am not sure if that is possible here but it seems to work well for those guys.
As I said I am positive that I have fallen into useless jabber, everyone has bad days, but on those bad days I have learned to step back and just read and come back later and post. I hope I have added a little to the forum. I know I have learned an unbelievable amount of things from you guys and appreciate most folks love of music and everything that goes with with it.
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Post by iloveoldcountry on Jun 29, 2008 17:38:38 GMT -5
The problem stems from the industry itself. The suits have decided that an adult audience is no longer what they want. They're courting the teens and college age crowd. It is a business and the name of the game is making money. That particular group has the money to spend because they don't have any responsibility. With them comes the "fan war" mentality. I rarely go into any singles threads from the current "hot" artists, because that is mainly what is there. Oh get out of my head....I was so thrilled to find this board...and while I don't post alot....as I do not consider myself as expert as many I've read here....this board has been a breath of fresh air to me...reading varying opinions that make SENSE...and make you THINK...I was trying to get away from the "fan war mentality"...cause sadly...even several OLDER artists management are now selling them to the youngsters!!!! A type of perversion....probably....but zazie....and all the others that i appreciate...please keep your info, and opinions coming....you fill the void...
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Post by rockingcountry on Jun 29, 2008 17:53:21 GMT -5
I don't understand why some forums have so many "flame wars." It's not just this forum, it seems to be most forums on the internet. People need to try to get along the best they can and agree to disagree. We should all be friends instead of argueing with each other. Doesn't make this a fun place to be at all.
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Jim King
Gold Member
Joined: March 2005
Posts: 922
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Post by Jim King on Jun 29, 2008 19:03:19 GMT -5
Philosophically, I'm with Jim King and lumpster in believing that in an ideal world, a moderator isn't necessary. Posters should just self-moderate. But the Pulse staff sent in a moderator because, well, there wasn't enough self-moderation. I'm a little disappointed that my suggestions are viewed as theoretical and not practical in the real world, because it is just this kind of thinking that has led to the degradation this board. Replying to the problem posters, the lack of thoughtful posts by board regulars, and in-your-face moderation are what is wrong with this board. The problems did not occur overnight nor can they be fixed overnight, but a core group of committed members willing to do everything needed to mold the board into their ideal, leaving those who don't follow uncomfortably outside in the cold, is the only real solution, not an ideal to be admired and discarded as unworkable.
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Post by zaclord on Jun 29, 2008 21:43:21 GMT -5
well i have given my suggestion. i cant think of anything else that would or could stop off-topic conversations in a thread, or whatever the other problems are. oh yeah iTunes and Mediabase updates. but i would like to see someone else who has problems with these things come up with something better. because right now we are just sitting here typing out all our thoughts but nothing is happening from it.
EDIT: wait i just came up with something... what if we had a thread in the country section that got sticked to the top that someone posted the Top 60 Mediabase updates each day. then people could add up the gains/losses for the song that they want in that thread.
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S4C
Diamond Member
No longer a loser. For now.
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 11,921
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Post by S4C on Jun 29, 2008 22:05:44 GMT -5
EDIT: wait i just came up with something... what if we had a thread in the country section that got sticked to the top that someone posted the Top 60 Mediabase updates each day. then people could add up the gains/losses for the song that they want in that thread. I was thinking something along the lines of that. They could have one post per song and keep iTunes and Mediabase updates in that post, and would be *responsible* for updating it. However, it feels a lot like giving in... Plus, that's one less thread that could be on the front page.
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Post by zaclord on Jun 29, 2008 22:19:27 GMT -5
thats true, but i dont know of anything else to do besides my previous idea.
i guess i have to edit this since no one posted after me:
i am sorry to say it but i am done posting here. i have had enough with all the crap everyone is giving in this forum and then no one is doing anything about it. i would love to stay here but it just seems that everything i say offends someone and i dont want to offend anyone so its best that i dont post anymore.
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GiggaWho
5x Platinum Member
$25 country superstar
Joined: December 2004
Posts: 5,234
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Post by GiggaWho on Jun 30, 2008 0:42:08 GMT -5
I just wanted to jump in and second dudley's thanks to everyone for participating in the discussion. As you can see from her post, we (as staff members) have a lot of the same concerns as you do and are always trying to think of ways to deal with them and improve the board. In fact, I remember having many of these same discussions with my sister-in-law last summer (she's a web designer) and she laughed because it reminded her of a presentation she saw at a conference. Turns out our problems aren't that new. She forwarded me a transcript of the presentation, which I've linked below. It's an interesting read. shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
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WamuFive
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Posts: 1,007
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Post by WamuFive on Jun 30, 2008 1:40:36 GMT -5
I'm not a regular poster here anymore, but I would like to contribute my .02 on the matter, if that is okay...
I think Jim King had the best ideas here for how to control the unwanted posts. Short of having a moderator approve every reply before it is posted to the board, there is no way anyone can control all of the content and ensure it matches up to the standards you have set forth for an acceptable post. Simply stating rules or lecturing posters about good posting etiquette may do some short-term good, but in the long run, these posters are going to revert back to their old habits, especially in the heat of a moment when someone just posted something less than desirable about their favorite artist.
There are a core group of posters here who make up the majority of posts. These are the posters who can determine the complexion of the board by setting good examples of how to post responsibly and by not responding to posts that bash are completely off-topic. Trust me, there is nothing that puts out a flame faster than when you feel ignored or invisible on a board. Kids that behave badly just want attention--poster who post irresponsibly thrive on the same thing--attention. By flat out ignoring them, you are essentially cutting the air supply to a flame.
As far as the off-topic posts in a subject-specific thread, this is a slippery slope. You click on a thread titled "Brad Paisley-- Waitin' On A Woman" and soon you're reading about how "Blank Sheet of Paper" or "Take Me Away" should have been released as singles by Tim McGraw. Fans wanting info on Brad may be quite disappointed and uninterested to read about this. Did these posts cross the line of "off-topicness"? Maybe. But then again, WOAW is a re-release by Brad from a previous album that many posters were ecstatic to see "rise from the dead" so to speak. Other poster were sharing their thoughts on songs they wished would also "rise from the dead". To them, these posts were still on-topic, particularly because they like both Brad Paisley and Tim McGraw.
The point is, what may be off-topic for some people, may be fine for others. Who's to judge? Also, many of us admit that some of the most interesting posts to read are the ones that get a little off-topic, but are constructed from a natural ebb and flow of conversation and exchange of thoughts and information. Does an interesting discussion have to have only one topic? So then we say, "well it's okay to have 3 or 4 off-topic posts, but not 20". So where do we draw the line? Four, five, ten? Who's to say when we've reached the limit? And just what, exactly, is an off-topic post again? See above paragraph.
This board is oozing with information and data on radio airplay, album sales, release dates, etc. and this is a really great thing. I think it's one of the most informative places on the web (at least that I've found). However, this board is also filled with people that have interesting and entertaining personalities and opinions that are respected--and this is where the interesting conversations stem from. You guys (I don't really know who the you refers to) need to decide what kind of place you want this to be informational and/or discussion oriented and go from there.
In a perfect world, everyone would be educated, well-mannered, would think before they posted, use good grammar, etc. But this isn't a private party where guests arrive by invitation only. Anyone can post here and expecting everyone to follow these pretty stringent standards just because they're posted as rules that Duddley has laid out is completely unrealistic. I think you can expect respectful posting, but the rest will have to come slow and steady via the way that Jim King has laid out.
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Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
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Post by Marv on Jun 30, 2008 10:25:52 GMT -5
The posting of Mediabase updates should be banned; they are updated twice daily on the 'Billboard Chart Projection' thread (4 AM & 1 PM and 4 AM & 3PM on Sundays PDT), and that's sufficient for all of us.
The iTunes updates are equally unnecessary; this board has (until recently), always been focused on the artists, their music, and the charts, as well as references to chart records and noteworthy radio airplay accomplishments.
The Mediabase/iTunes thread which sbp17 started elsewhere is fine where it is; anyone who wishes to discuss those items now has a sensible place to do so; I do agree with rowdawg that bombarding everyone with those updates is indeed unnecessary and selfish, and anyone who wants them knows where to find them.
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sbp17
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Joined: July 2005
Posts: 8,483
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Post by sbp17 on Jul 1, 2008 19:24:59 GMT -5
Not sure where else to put this so I thought I'd put it here. PerfectLie gave me an idea in the Jewel thread. He decided to start putting the Mediabase updates in the first post of the Jewel thread instead of posting new updates every day. That got me thinking that it would be convenient if the originating poster of each singles thread would update that first post with the most relevant information about the single as it is known (i.e. lyrics, audio link, release date, video link, Billboard position, etc.) Sometimes, particularly in long threads, I know that the lyrics or video link have been posted but I can't seem to find which page it's on so copying the most pertinent information onto the first post is good for archiving and reference. It doesn't unnecesarily bump the thread. I did this for Just A Dream and Every Other Weekend (since I started those threads) if you want to take a peak. Ordinarily, I shouldn't even post that I updated the first post because that would bump the thread for no reason but I did that for these two just to bring the idea to everyone's attention.
ETA: It does require that the originating person be someone who'll stick around for the life of the single and not just pop in to start the thread. For the most part, that's the case here in the country forum.
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recjus85
2x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2006
Posts: 2,618
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Post by recjus85 on Jul 1, 2008 20:15:15 GMT -5
^I think that's a good idea.
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rowdawg21
6x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2005
Posts: 6,124
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Post by rowdawg21 on Jul 1, 2008 20:22:34 GMT -5
I like the idea too, although it might be difficult to make all threads this way. I edited the first post of the "Back When I Knew It All" thread, and I'll work on converting some of the other threads I have created.
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sbp17
8x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2005
Posts: 8,483
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Post by sbp17 on Jul 1, 2008 20:32:05 GMT -5
I like the idea too, although it might be difficult to make all threads this way. I edited the first post of the "Back When I Knew It All" thread, and I'll work on converting some of the other threads I have created. Yeah, I just realized that you start a lot of the threads so you'd have a lot of work in front of you. It would probably only be worth it for songs popular here that would generate more than a page worth of posts. And I wasn't suggesting that we necessarily go back and update previous or even existing threads (unless you have time and are interested) but rather is something that could be done moving forward. (It'll be easier to update as you're going along and information is made known than to play catchup like I just did with EOW and you did with BWIKIA.)
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Post by gcizvolsfan on Jul 1, 2008 21:45:01 GMT -5
Not sure where else to put this so I thought I'd put it here. PerfectLie gave me an idea in the Jewel thread. He decided to start putting the Mediabase updates in the first post of the Jewel thread instead of posting new updates every day. That got me thinking that it would be convenient if the originating poster of each singles thread would update that first post with the most relevant information about the single as it is known (i.e. lyrics, audio link, release date, video link, Billboard position, etc.) Sometimes, particularly in long threads, I know that the lyrics or video link have been posted but I can't seem to find which page it's on so copying the most pertinent information onto the first post is good for archiving and reference. It doesn't unnecesarily bump the thread. I did this for Just A Dream and Every Other Weekend (since I started those threads) if you want to take a peak. Ordinarily, I shouldn't even post that I updated the first post because that would bump the thread for no reason but I did that for these two just to bring the idea to everyone's attention. ETA: It does require that the originating person be someone who'll stick around for the life of the single and not just pop in to start the thread. For the most part, that's the case here in the country forum. That is a good idea. I like the way you included the chart run for Every Other Weekend.
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S4C
Diamond Member
No longer a loser. For now.
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 11,921
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Post by S4C on Jul 1, 2008 21:59:53 GMT -5
Not sure where else to put this so I thought I'd put it here. PerfectLie gave me an idea in the Jewel thread. He decided to start putting the Mediabase updates in the first post of the Jewel thread instead of posting new updates every day. That got me thinking that it would be convenient if the originating poster of each singles thread would update that first post with the most relevant information about the single as it is known (i.e. lyrics, audio link, release date, video link, Billboard position, etc.) Sometimes, particularly in long threads, I know that the lyrics or video link have been posted but I can't seem to find which page it's on so copying the most pertinent information onto the first post is good for archiving and reference. It doesn't unnecesarily bump the thread. I did this for Just A Dream and Every Other Weekend (since I started those threads) if you want to take a peak. Ordinarily, I shouldn't even post that I updated the first post because that would bump the thread for no reason but I did that for these two just to bring the idea to everyone's attention. ETA: It does require that the originating person be someone who'll stick around for the life of the single and not just pop in to start the thread. For the most part, that's the case here in the country forum. Heh, poor rowdawg21 and kevin59. No seriously, I like this idea and I agree with not being able to find stuff. But right now I'm also just histarically happy over the new youtube feature. If any thread-starters would like to place the video in the original post: [youtube] (video link) [/youtube]
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Post by zaclord on Jul 1, 2008 22:47:15 GMT -5
yeah i noticed that today too! it sounds cool!
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DCXfan
Gold Member
Joined: March 2006
Posts: 540
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Post by DCXfan on Jul 1, 2008 23:05:47 GMT -5
I think most of the regulars here have done a superb job in this thread of diagnosing potential problems and what steps can be taken to improve them. But unless I've missed it, one item that hasn't been mentioned is a tendency I've noticed of late of citing fans on "other forums" as justification for taking a condescending tone here. It's happened to varying degrees in several places, but one example I specifically remember is when a Carrie fan cited the opinions of Taylor fans on supposed "other forums" as a reason for taking a harsh stance here. (As an aside, please don't take this as me directing anything toward Carrie fans -- that just happens to be the most recent specific example that I can recall.)
The best thing about this board is its uniqueness, and how different it is from both other forums here as well as other forums around the Net. As a result, unless you're posting concrete, factual information from another forum, it doesn't need to influence how we post here and our analysis here. We're better than that. It's a simple concept, but I think we all need occasional reminders.
But that's all I can really add -- everything else I can think of has already been covered. I hope everyone out there is reading these exchanges, even if they aren't posting in this thread. It should definitely help.
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libby
New Member
Joined: September 2007
Posts: 81
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Post by libby on Jul 2, 2008 8:26:16 GMT -5
I saw what sbp17 did in the Every Other Weekend thread before I came here and really like it.
I realize it would be added work for those who already do so much, so if there is anything I can do to help with the more mundane tasks, I'd be thrilled to be able to contribute to this forum.
Just let me know. (I'd need a crash course in the "how to's" though)
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