LittleMissMoonshine
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Baby loves to dance in the dark...
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Post by LittleMissMoonshine on Mar 26, 2009 22:32:43 GMT -5
When LO's promotion were mentioned today by Archies or posters here, it's used as bench mark for the promotion level. No one mentioned that LO shouldn't get the promotion, but you jumped in to explain why LO deserved all the promotion. You just couldn't let LO go in this threat. As you said yourself - I wasn't the first one to bring LO in to this thread, it was other posters comparing the promo to begin with. I wasn't even the 1st one to comment that comparing the promo was silly because of the different circumstances. You might want to re-read my post, the point wasn't that LO "deserved" its promo (I could care less), it was that comparing leading single promo with follow-up single promo is taking things out of context. That's why I said that the comparison isn't any more valid than comparing ALTNOY to Crush. It was you who made it about LO and Cook by trying to correct me with TOML. My point was always about ALTNOY and the sort of promo it was expected to have as a follow up single. I just don't think it's fair to compare ALTNOY with Cook's songs b/c the promotion level is totally different. I think it's silly to compare, and that's exactly what I was saying. It's silly to compare ALTNOY to LO, it's silly to compare ALTNOY to CBTM, It's idiotic to compare Archuleta with Cook. Yet some people insist on doing it. Hopefully we can now either go back to talking about the topic, or have this lovely thread closed. I didn't even know 90 pages was the limit until now.
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baobabs727
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Coco who???
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Post by baobabs727 on Mar 27, 2009 0:32:06 GMT -5
Yes, this song is done, the Fat Lady has sung: I want her hung! However, the "era" (a particularly unsatisfactory descriptor, imo) may or may not be over. As they say in electoral politics, "it's too early to call." Going forward, it seems clear that if one wishes to prolong the "era," one must first identify a commercially viable single for an Apr/May release. So, to that end and without making any value judgments with my query, I wonder if anyone here would care to take a stab at doing just that? I'll tell what would be the next best single: any song released within 30 days. Unfortunately, that option is out of question. LOL. Yeah, any fresh meat will do, so just hurry up and get it cooked and on the table before the whole meal gets cold!!
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Ying&Yang
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If Today Was Your Last Day
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Post by Ying&Yang on Mar 27, 2009 3:09:49 GMT -5
When LO's promotion were mentioned today by Archies or posters here, it's used as bench mark for the promotion level. No one mentioned that LO shouldn't get the promotion, but you jumped in to explain why LO deserved all the promotion. You just couldn't let LO go in this threat. As you said yourself - I wasn't the first one to bring LO in to this thread, it was other posters comparing the promo to begin with. I wasn't even the 1st one to comment that comparing the promo was silly because of the different circumstances. You might want to re-read my post, the point wasn't that LO "deserved" its promo (I could care less), it was that comparing leading single promo with follow-up single promo is taking things out of context. That's why I said that the comparison isn't any more valid than comparing ALTNOY to Crush. It was you who made it about LO and Cook by trying to correct me with TOML. My point was always about ALTNOY and the sort of promo it was expected to have as a follow up single. The promotion level of each single is decided by many factors, not only whether it's lead, 2nd or 3rd. 2nd single of one artist will get more promotion than the 1st single of another artist. To certain artists, follow-up single get more promotion than 1st single after they prove their values. Your logic of explanation doesn't make that much sense but invite comparison of LO to other songs. The only thing you could compare is the promotion level of songs no matter the song is 1st, 2nd or 3rd single. That's why I said people mention LO's promotion more meant to use it as benchmark of promotion level. ALTNOY's promotion < LO's was the fact in discussion. Why that happened wasn't the topic in discussion in which you plugged. Yes, you are not the first one to mention LO, but you might be the first one to mis-read.
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rfucom
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Post by rfucom on Mar 27, 2009 3:14:16 GMT -5
how come this thread is still alive. David must release a new single.
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LittleMissMoonshine
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Baby loves to dance in the dark...
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Post by LittleMissMoonshine on Mar 27, 2009 3:42:36 GMT -5
Wow, Ying&Yang, you must be seriously bored. Do you really want to prolong this inane discussion? But if picking apart my posts and making them the topic of discussion gives you joy for some reason, knock yourself out by all means... That's why I said people mention LO's promotion more meant to use it as benchmark of promotion level. ALTNOY's promotion < LO's was the fact in discussion. Why that happened wasn't the topic in discussion in which you plugged. Really. Why that happened wasn't a topic in discussion until I came along? Hmm. Cook won Idol so he will and deservedly so get more promotion. I think the 2nd single never gets the same level of promo as the first. Looks like reasons for varying levels of promotion to me. Maybe I'm mis-reading... This is an open discussion, darling. If you have a problem with my posts it's your problem, not mine. I hope you get over it soon.
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evean
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Post by evean on Mar 27, 2009 6:40:35 GMT -5
I don't care that ALTNOY flopped on the radio but I feel so sad that the beautiful MV never appeared on VH1, MTV, nada. Like I said, it's as if the song never existed to the public. The song did exist in public. It was on MTV hits.. It just wasn't on David's Hitlist, It was also on the main MTV hit list. It was also on VH1.. Public is not only TV, its also radio, internet, etc..The song was in public. This song was not to the majority of the publics liking. That's all it was. I don't think ALTNOY was on VH1. It nvr got added into the list
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atgs
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Post by atgs on Mar 27, 2009 10:27:52 GMT -5
If comparing this too Cook's singles (why not comparing it to Crush, btw?) makes people feel better about the flop... go ahead and do it. But the truth is that this song had very good promo for a second single. It wasn't for lack of promo that it didn't work.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Mar 27, 2009 10:47:48 GMT -5
I may have missed something, but has anyone looked at the AC chart? This track only has 52 spins, but an audience of 17.3 million?!? Is that an error? Yes, big stations bring big audiences, but I don't think there's any station that could bring that big a number based on such a small amount of spins!
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musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 27, 2009 10:48:56 GMT -5
If comparing this too Cook's singles (why not comparing it to Crush, btw?) makes people feel better about the flop... go ahead and do it. But the truth is that this song had very good promo for a second single. It wasn't for lack of promo that it didn't work. You keep arguing that it got good promo..can you tell me what public promo it got besides performing it on a re-run of a cable show? I mean the video was never on VH1 or MTV so there's really no way ppl even know he has a second single cuz it's not like the radio was playing it all that much. If ALTNOY was both performed and video premiered on AI in front of a 28M audience, then I'd say that was good promo..or at least give the guy an itunes ad for god's sake
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Mar 27, 2009 10:51:15 GMT -5
Where did you see that? On AllAccess it's showing up at under 1 mill. audience on AC. It's the #1 song that has 17.3 mill. audience.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Mar 27, 2009 10:51:49 GMT -5
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Mar 27, 2009 10:53:15 GMT -5
That's not audience, that's average spins per station. The 3 AC stations that are playing it are spinning it roughly 17 times each on average. ;) This particular version of the chart doesn't come with audience impressions.
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street
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Post by street on Mar 27, 2009 10:56:56 GMT -5
It got OK promo for a 2nd single. Nothing special. Comparing to Cook only because they came off the same season of Idol and people do that. That's easing up as S8 goes on.
I'm actually surprised that didn't pimp Archie more early in S8. Just even playing a few secs. of the video would have helped. But then Simon Fuller doesn't manage him so they don't make as much $ off him as they do of the ones they do manage. (Carrie, Ruben, Cook - see a pattern)
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queencello
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Post by queencello on Mar 27, 2009 11:11:51 GMT -5
I'm so tired of hearing lack of promo used as an excuse for this song's performance. Plenty of songs take off without the type of promo many of you are talking about - not every song that does well gets played 100 times on MTV and VH1 and is performed on a ton of TV shows. They could have promoted this song on 10 TV shows, including Idol, and I still don't think it would have done anything. It would have gotten a temporary sales bump, but that's it. This song is just blah and it doesn't fit in with today's top 40. If radio stations thought this song fit into their playlists and/or it had gotten good call outs, it would have been picked up and played. Also, all signs seem to indicate that this got good behind the scenes promo with radio stations. David appeared at a lot of Jingle Balls, did a lot of interviews, and got mediabase ads. The song just didn't take. But it's not because of the promo it got.
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street
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Post by street on Mar 27, 2009 11:16:48 GMT -5
Radio didn't like this song. And I agree it doesn't fit into radio today. So Archie hasn't fully established himself yet. However Idol artists do not have careers like regular new artists at least right off their season.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Mar 27, 2009 11:23:08 GMT -5
Ooohhh- ok, thanks for pointingthat out, Azriel. :) I didn't look close enough! hehe In some cases, the numbers don't look far off of what audience could be, though. hehe
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LeTheSunShine
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And It Goes..
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Post by LeTheSunShine on Mar 27, 2009 12:03:28 GMT -5
The song did exist in public. It was on MTV hits.. It just wasn't on David's Hitlist, It was also on the main MTV hit list. It was also on VH1.. Public is not only TV, its also radio, internet, etc..The song was in public. This song was not to the majority of the publics liking. That's all it was. I don't think ALTNOY was on VH1. It nvr got added into the list It was on during the morning hours on weekdays when they have the music video hours.
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musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 27, 2009 12:46:29 GMT -5
I don't think ALTNOY was on VH1. It nvr got added into the list It was on during the morning hours on weekdays when they have the music video hours. I think that was Crush..ALTNOY was never shown before on VH1
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musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 27, 2009 12:50:13 GMT -5
I'm so tired of hearing lack of promo used as an excuse for this song's performance. Plenty of songs take off without the type of promo many of you are talking about - not every song that does well gets played 100 times on MTV and VH1 and is performed on a ton of TV shows. They could have promoted this song on 10 TV shows, including Idol, and I still don't think it would have done anything. It would have gotten a temporary sales bump, but that's it. This song is just blah and it doesn't fit in with today's top 40. If radio stations thought this song fit into their playlists and/or it had gotten good call outs, it would have been picked up and played. Also, all signs seem to indicate that this got good behind the scenes promo with radio stations. David appeared at a lot of Jingle Balls, did a lot of interviews, and got mediabase ads. The song just didn't take. But it's not because of the promo it got. The avg music listener doesn't go on mediabase though so I don't see how much promo that is. If not enough people even know about the song, then there's no buzz around it, and that's why radio stations don't add it. That's why radio stations added Crush and not ALTNOY. Jive didn't seem that invested in this song anyways with his tour and international gigs so might as well move on to the 3rd single.
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Post by davidprincess on Mar 27, 2009 13:29:47 GMT -5
i agree that this song didn't have a good promotion, it might be sound like a excuse but facts are facts.. Ai and Cook's label spent a lot of money to promote Light on and Time of my life on the most popular tv shows, i know that's the adventage of winning idol, but if Jive wants David to have many hits on the radio, he needs to promote him like crazy too, because David is a new artist and they should promote AlTNOY and his cd on tv shows more, when David went to promote his cd on TV last month, the sales went up 36% , Crush went up, AlTNOY went up, and his cd sold 12,100 records that week...but radio stations and vh1 boycotted ALTNOY, and sadly this song never had the chance to be a hit on airplay..But AlTNOY with the little promotion that had, the song still was successful with some radio stations that have supported David no matter what, on xm20 has been #1 on Radio Disney it has been the most requested song in a day, and it's #4 at the top 30..... z100: it was #1 on z100 too...
So if the main problem was AlTNOY because it's slow, why radio stations added 'i'll be or 'thinking of you' ? i think radio stations supported those songs, because they support Leona or Katy Perry music, no matter if the songs are cool or not... I'm not saying that ALTNOY could be a smash hit but it deserved a top 30, because the song is not a bad song either..But i think the main problem is that radio didn't want to play ALTNOY! :'( :)
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queencello
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Post by queencello on Mar 27, 2009 15:35:17 GMT -5
I'm so tired of hearing lack of promo used as an excuse for this song's performance. Plenty of songs take off without the type of promo many of you are talking about - not every song that does well gets played 100 times on MTV and VH1 and is performed on a ton of TV shows. They could have promoted this song on 10 TV shows, including Idol, and I still don't think it would have done anything. It would have gotten a temporary sales bump, but that's it. This song is just blah and it doesn't fit in with today's top 40. If radio stations thought this song fit into their playlists and/or it had gotten good call outs, it would have been picked up and played. Also, all signs seem to indicate that this got good behind the scenes promo with radio stations. David appeared at a lot of Jingle Balls, did a lot of interviews, and got mediabase ads. The song just didn't take. But it's not because of the promo it got. The avg music listener doesn't go on mediabase though so I don't see how much promo that is. If not enough people even know about the song, then there's no buzz around it, and that's why radio stations don't add it. That's why radio stations added Crush and not ALTNOY. Jive didn't seem that invested in this song anyways with his tour and international gigs so might as well move on to the 3rd single. What part of "behind the scenes promo" do you not understand? Of course I know that most listeners don't look at mediabase. That's not the point. But a ton of important promotion goes on behind the scenes with radio promoters from labels and PDs/MDs. I think that Jive did a lot of promo behind the scenes for the reasons I mentioned. Crush had buzz only because it was his first single off his album. That is common. Subsequent singles generally get buzz by being good (in the sense of top 40 good - catchy) or controversial ("If U Seek Amy") and fitting in with stations' playlists and the types of songs that they are playing. What promotion is Kevin Rudolf's new song getting that ALTNOY didn't get? What promotion did Jesse McCartney's "How Do You Sleep?" get that ALTNOY didn't get? How did they make the top 40 with their level of promo? I could go on and on. They didn't start out getting any more "buzz" than ALTNOY. Bottom line is that the songs are catchy and fit in with the stations' playlists and what they are currently playing. That's why stations are playing those songs (and why they didn't play ALTNOY IMO) and that's how they broke into the top 40.
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baobabs727
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Coco who???
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Post by baobabs727 on Mar 27, 2009 15:54:15 GMT -5
The avg music listener doesn't go on mediabase though so I don't see how much promo that is. If not enough people even know about the song, then there's no buzz around it, and that's why radio stations don't add it. That's why radio stations added Crush and not ALTNOY. Jive didn't seem that invested in this song anyways with his tour and international gigs so might as well move on to the 3rd single. What part of "behind the scenes promo" do you not understand? Of course I know that most listeners don't look at mediabase. That's not the point. But a ton of important promotion goes on behind the scenes with radio promoters from labels and PDs/MDs. I think that Jive did a lot of promo behind the scenes for the reasons I mentioned. Crush had buzz only because it was his first single off his album. That is common. Subsequent singles generally get buzz by being good (in the sense of top 40 good - catchy) or controversial ("If U Seek Amy") and fitting in with stations' playlists and the types of songs that they are playing. What promotion is Kevin Rudolf's new song getting that ALTNOY didn't get? What promotion did Jesse McCartney's "How Do You Sleep?" get that ALTNOY didn't get? How did they make the top 40 with their level of promo? I could go on and on. They didn't start out getting any more "buzz" than ALTNOY. Bottom line is that the songs are catchy and fit in with the stations' playlists and what they are currently playing. That's why stations are playing those songs (and why they didn't play ALTNOY IMO) and that's how they broke into the top 40. Well, if that's the criteria for scoring radio play these days, the radio dial is full of...controversy.
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MOWE
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Post by MOWE on Mar 27, 2009 16:06:26 GMT -5
What part of "behind the scenes promo" do you not understand? Of course I know that most listeners don't look at mediabase. That's not the point. But a ton of important promotion goes on behind the scenes with radio promoters from labels and PDs/MDs. I think that Jive did a lot of promo behind the scenes for the reasons I mentioned. Crush had buzz only because it was his first single off his album. That is common. Subsequent singles generally get buzz by being good (in the sense of top 40 good - catchy) or controversial ("If U Seek Amy") and fitting in with stations' playlists and the types of songs that they are playing. What promotion is Kevin Rudolf's new song getting that ALTNOY didn't get? What promotion did Jesse McCartney's "How Do You Sleep?" get that ALTNOY didn't get? How did they make the top 40 with their level of promo? I could go on and on. They didn't start out getting any more "buzz" than ALTNOY. Bottom line is that the songs are catchy and fit in with the stations' playlists and what they are currently playing. That's why stations are playing those songs (and why they didn't play ALTNOY IMO) and that's how they broke into the top 40. All excellent points. I loved this song and I wish it did better, but the fact is it flopped. Lack of promotion wasn't the problem, either IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2009 16:28:21 GMT -5
Why keep bringing up Cook's AI promotion. Carrie get's AI promo, same with Kelly. There obviously going to support the winners more when they have potential. And Archuleta get's to perform he should be happpy. Yes the song could have had more promotion, but radio just didn't seem to want to play this. Archies! Denial is not good! Go back and read this thread. 1st it was after ICarly it would take off, 2nd it was wait til Z100 adds, excuse after excuse after excuse. If Ashanti got American Idol promotion maybe she wouldn't have flopped? If Natasha Bedingfield had more promotion for Soulmate maybe it would be a hit. If Madonna had more televeison appearances maybe Hard Candy would sell more. If I was king of Mexico maybe I would have a nice tan. FLOP! And this is coming from a archie fan! But when his stan!s cannot execpt facts, and make excuss after excuss, it's sad.
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₫anny Jerz ♔
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Post by ₫anny Jerz ♔ on Mar 27, 2009 16:34:38 GMT -5
Promotion has absolutely nothing to do with this not taking off. It's over now so there is no reason in debating what went wrong. They need to focus on how they're going to continue on from here because a lot of time was wasted.
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TYRONE™
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...
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Post by TYRONE™ on Mar 27, 2009 16:38:23 GMT -5
FLOP! They need to release TMH and call it a day.
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penpal99
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Post by penpal99 on Mar 27, 2009 17:09:21 GMT -5
I like DA's voice thought not really his fan..
But TMH is definitely the better song - its got that Xtra something that make a song standout (like Crush). Not ALTNOY - its a generic tune not sung convincingly by him.
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musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 27, 2009 17:16:43 GMT -5
FLOP! They need to release TMH and call it a day. I love TMH but I don't see how TMH will do any better than ALTNOY on the radio with the same amount of promotion. It's not like it fits in better among How Do You Sleep or U Seek Amy so what makes you think radio stations will add it? I'm personally rooting for ZG, Barriers, or YEDL, but I prob won't get my wish.
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Vic
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Post by Vic on Mar 27, 2009 17:27:53 GMT -5
now we are using "promotion" as the reason it flopped? If you are comparing...this song got more promotion than McPhee's and Bice's 2nd release...and they both flopped. So it must be the trend. The song tanked because it had a weak hook. Most people saw that coming 'cept for the "archies". If the song could stand on its own...radio wwoulda played it and it woulda been a hit.
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penpal99
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Post by penpal99 on Mar 27, 2009 17:31:22 GMT -5
TMH's has many some greats going for it - riveting and memorable opening/introduction, that all important melodic chorus part and an overall nolstagic after-listening that linger on and tucked at the heart. I think its makes one one to hear it again and again...
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