desertfloods
2x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 2,431
|
Post by desertfloods on May 29, 2009 0:50:20 GMT -5
^ No big talent? Now Simon and the Glamberts would disagree on that.... he's an international megastar! (btw, Susan Boyle is so overrated IMO)
|
|
|
Post by Baby In a New Dress on May 29, 2009 10:34:28 GMT -5
The media will attack Kris no matter what. That's what the media does. They build people up and then tear them down. Get used to the fact that your favorite contestant this year is the guy the media wants to step on, just like David A. was last year. Welcome to the jungle. If Kris doesn't outsell Adam get ready for a lot of "America was wrong" articles. And then get super frustrated when articles leave out pertinent information about Kris's sales that would make him look better if they were put in. You'll be posting things like, "but he's in [insert genre] and that genre doesn't sell as many albums," or "yes, but his single wasn't sent to [insert radio format], so you can't compare his and Adam's latest single." What you just did up there with the David C. vs. David A. stuff is what the media (and other posters) will do with Adam vs. Kris, and you'll be really frustrated because some Adam fan will leave off a bunch of qualifiers and generalize Kris's sales and Adam's sales, and will make Kris look terrible in comparison. They'll declare that Adam is obviously more popular, and they'll declare that Adam obviously has the larger fan base because of X, Y, and Z. They won't bother to mention that they're in different genres, they won't bother to mention that their songs were sent to different formats, or maybe Adam has more singles, and won't mention any area in which Kris does better. That is what will happen if Adam dares to sell more albums than Kris, or dares to do better in any area. And it'll frustrate the heck out of you. So be prepared. Well, what can I say to that? You seem to have it all figured out. But it's really not that serious, is it? If Adam sells more than Kris, then Adam sells more than Kris. I'm not going to go around trying to explain, justify, or make excuses about it. I won't try to make up something about "demographics" or "audiences." If Kris doesn't sell as much as I wanted him to, I'll say, "well that's too bad." I won't try to twist it so it seems like he's doing fantastical when he's just doing ok. Both of them are coming out at around the same time. If in a year's time, Adam has sold more singles, albums, got more airplay, and made more money, what am I going to say? That Kris has a different "audience" or how his label didn't "push" it enough? No, I won't. Because frankly, nobody gives a shit. When in doubt, we can just take it to the charts. Numbers speak for themselves. It's like trying to explain how Christina Aguilera is the biggest female artist of the decade. It's pretty hard, right? That's because it just ain't so. And this is coming from someone who worships her. I don't understand why people take it so hard when their favorites underperform. And then when someone points it out, they get upset and defensive. I think people take these things too personal.
|
|
ZAYN
7x Platinum Member
Everything that kills me makes me feel alive.
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by ZAYN on May 29, 2009 10:44:12 GMT -5
major spin loss today
|
|
WotUNeed
2x Platinum Member
Deacon Blues
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 2,935
|
Post by WotUNeed on May 29, 2009 10:44:14 GMT -5
Sorry to ask this but i dunno where i can squeez this question.. anyways How do i live is sung by 2 artist i think in 1997 or 98 by two artist (trisha and Le ann) . Did CHR have this song in their charts at the same time. Does CHR radios favor one song over the other to play on their rotation? because its like what happening here between Adam and Kris and most likely most stations favors the Kris version ofcourse his the winner. This thread turned to crap and I stopped reading it, but I don't think anyone answered your question about "How Do I Live," so... The two versions split airplay by format. On CHR, Trisha Yearwood's got a little play, but not even enough to make the official chart. Leann Rimes went top five. On Country, Trisha Yearwood was the one who had a top five hit, and Leann Rimes was the one who got only minor airplay. AC gave the majority of the airplay to the Rimes version. No format gave both artists significant airplay.
|
|
₫anny Jerz ♔
Diamond Member
Irrelevant
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 10,939
|
Post by ₫anny Jerz ♔ on May 29, 2009 11:29:10 GMT -5
Why are we writing essays in this thread? Most of this discussion has nothing to do with following this song. Typical 'Idol' pattern continues I see, unfortunately.
|
|
atgs
Gold Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 740
|
Post by atgs on May 29, 2009 12:36:45 GMT -5
you have the numbers?
|
|
soundUPsceneDOWN
4x Platinum Member
Just go with the flow 'til your feet are back on the ground.
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 4,220
|
Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 29, 2009 12:55:20 GMT -5
Why are we writing essays in this thread? Most of this discussion has nothing to do with following this song. Typical 'Idol' pattern continues I see, unfortunately. Sorry, I was making a point but it went "woooosh." If people would post some numbers I'll happily discuss this song on CHR. I really like Kris Allen and I want him to do well.
|
|
JamaicaFunk²
Diamond Member
Will & Grace!
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 13,774
|
Post by JamaicaFunk² on May 29, 2009 15:30:20 GMT -5
major spin loss today Yeah I wonder if something is up with Mediabase?? Cause this was like -50 on pop today. As well as declines on AC and HAC.
|
|
|
Post by when the pawn... on May 29, 2009 15:59:44 GMT -5
It's because today's update is the first update that doesnt include last Thursday's airplay, the first day of No Boundaries. Day 1 is when it got most airplay becuase of the immediate post-Idol hype. From now on, we'll see if this can be nearly as successful as TOML or if it'll be just another Idol coronation single. Either way, it won't matter for Kris. Carrie & Jordin obviously did well without any significant airplay for their coronation single and Cook has somewhat struggled after a very successful coronation single. Kelly obviously did very well after a huge success forf AMLT.
|
|
Rurry
Diamond Member
The Generalissimo
Careful, they're ruffled!
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 14,418
|
Post by Rurry on May 29, 2009 16:06:22 GMT -5
Honestly, it's probably better for this to die fast, for his sake, cause then he can get his new stuff out faster. I think TOML being successful hurt Cook in a way because it pushed back his new material and killed some of the hype around LO because people already looked at TOML as his first single (unlike Jordin and Carrie whose coronation songs did nothing and were more or less forgotten by the time their actual singles came out).
|
|
soundUPsceneDOWN
4x Platinum Member
Just go with the flow 'til your feet are back on the ground.
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 4,220
|
Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 29, 2009 16:49:34 GMT -5
Honestly, it's probably better for this to die fast, for his sake, cause then he can get his new stuff out faster. I think TOML being successful hurt Cook in a way because it pushed back his new material and killed some of the hype around LO because people already looked at TOML as his first single (unlike Jordin and Carrie whose coronation songs did nothing and were more or less forgotten by the time their actual singles came out). I agree--the best thing Jive can do, IMO, is to bury NB and work on his real first single. The song isn't good enough. Not his fault--it just isn't. And it doesn't represent the style that I *think* he wants to present. If they could do it with Jordin, I don't see why they couldn't do it with Kris. And the sooner he can put out a real first single, the better.
|
|
blurple
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 13,125
|
Post by blurple on May 29, 2009 16:51:23 GMT -5
I agree. This is not the song Kris should be "introduced" to the music world with. So I say bury this and get a great first single out in a few months!
|
|
atgs
Gold Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 740
|
Post by atgs on May 29, 2009 18:01:50 GMT -5
I don't think TOML hurt Cook, if anything it made me him sold a bunch of more albums. LO's life had nothing to do with TOML but with itself.
I don't think No Boundaries is a bad song, I like it more than Daughtry's new single, for example. I think if it did well at least it would keep Kris name out there, which seems to be a problem with all the hype around Adam. They could still get a single out in August/September. I also think if this dies it won't hurt him much, although I'm sure many will compare it to TOML, because after TOML's success and this one being a song penned by Kara, there are more expectations, and Kris will have the first flop in his hands. It's not the same as Jordin's, or Taylor's and whatevers... because before them only Kelly's coronation song had done good.
|
|
Rurry
Diamond Member
The Generalissimo
Careful, they're ruffled!
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 14,418
|
Post by Rurry on May 29, 2009 18:17:48 GMT -5
It may have sold him more albums, but it still hindered him in a lot of ways...I think it made him lose some credibility. Then again, Kris also isn't a rock artist so he doesn't have any "rawk cred" to have to keep up like Cook did. But still like Crashed said, I just think it's better if he's introduced to the music world by a REAL song, not a cheesy ballad that was written for a TV show.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on May 29, 2009 19:38:46 GMT -5
I agree. This is not the song Kris should be "introduced" to the music world with. So I say bury this and get a great first single out in a few months! Yeah this is pretty bad (cliche, generic, etc.) - hopin he gets a better song cause the dude's def. got talent
|
|
soundUPsceneDOWN
4x Platinum Member
Just go with the flow 'til your feet are back on the ground.
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 4,220
|
Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 29, 2009 19:51:00 GMT -5
I kind of want him to skip the whole Idol tour and start recording. lol.
Nah, really--I think for Kris the further away he can get from Idol, the better (once he fulfills his touring obligation). With this voting "scandal" crap that I'm pretty sure the Idol producers are encouraging privately but "discouraging" publicly, neither he nor Adam are being talked about in the mainstream press in terms of their talent or their potential as artists. And it's making Kris seem like an illegitimate winner.
|
|
street
Platinum Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,569
|
Post by street on May 29, 2009 20:00:48 GMT -5
I kind of hate all the Idol coronation songs. In general the quicker they die, the better. (Exception AMLT). Having duds didn't hurt Carrie or Jordin and having a big hit didn't really help Cook that much with radio. Kris needs a career like Jordin who isn't as associated with Idol as some of the others. Hopefully Jive can provide him with a huge first single.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on May 29, 2009 20:18:48 GMT -5
^Yeah Simon Cowell should start critiquing A. I's songwriters ...I'd almost rather remakes like Mad World and Wanted Dead Or Alive become hits
|
|
starr
4x Platinum Member
Joined: December 2008
Posts: 4,814
|
Post by starr on May 29, 2009 20:44:14 GMT -5
The media will attack Kris no matter what. That's what the media does. They build people up and then tear them down. Get used to the fact that your favorite contestant this year is the guy the media wants to step on, just like David A. was last year. Welcome to the jungle. If Kris doesn't outsell Adam get ready for a lot of "America was wrong" articles. And then get super frustrated when articles leave out pertinent information about Kris's sales that would make him look better if they were put in. You'll be posting things like, "but he's in [insert genre] and that genre doesn't sell as many albums," or "yes, but his single wasn't sent to [insert radio format], so you can't compare his and Adam's latest single." What you just did up there with the David C. vs. David A. stuff is what the media (and other posters) will do with Adam vs. Kris, and you'll be really frustrated because some Adam fan will leave off a bunch of qualifiers and generalize Kris's sales and Adam's sales, and will make Kris look terrible in comparison. They'll declare that Adam is obviously more popular, and they'll declare that Adam obviously has the larger fan base because of X, Y, and Z. They won't bother to mention that they're in different genres, they won't bother to mention that their songs were sent to different formats, or maybe Adam has more singles, and won't mention any area in which Kris does better. That is what will happen if Adam dares to sell more albums than Kris, or dares to do better in any area. And it'll frustrate the heck out of you. So be prepared. The Top 2 are forever linked and there will always be comparisons with album sales/single sales. That is a part of post-Idol. The media doesn't care about the factors that will cause a difference in album sales like genre or if the artist got support from the label with radio promotion. And after the media is finish comparing Kris to Adam as far as album sales then they are going to start comparing him to other Idol winners. Just look at how the media went after season 5 winner, Taylor Hicks and the endless comparison to Daughtry even though Chris came in fourth place and wasn't a part of the Top 2. So many articles were written about Taylor and Chris album sales. Chris Daughtry wasn't even hyped as much as Adam. He got some press after his shocking exit at fourth place. But, it wasn't near the epic proportions of media coverage that Adam got for not winning Idol. Plus Adam had major press before coming in second place.
|
|
|
Post by davidprincess on May 29, 2009 22:47:24 GMT -5
I think she's talking about the first week of downloads after idol. The fact that Kris didn't sell much more than Adam, and that Adam sold more albums doesn't make it as clear post AI that Kris deserved it for all those who think he shouldn't have won. It's not like what happened last year when Cook sold a lot more after the finale. Look, it's true Adam is more popular, there's not denying that. Probably Adam will do better after AI... but that's not the end of it all for Kris. Let the media find a new story and they'll forget AI season 8 pretty fast. What Kris will need is label support. Yeah. That's what I meant. This one is really close. Last year was... not. I don't believe any s**t about "audiences" or whatnot. When we're dealing with idols, we talk about "popularity." The more popular, the more they sell (initially). Adam and Kris' fanbase are about equal, I think. Last year, David C's fanbase was much larger than David A's. No matter how you look at it, David C "won." He sold more singles. He sold more albums. He's gotten more airplay. He made more money. I guess David A. has... better hair. And prettier eyes. So he wins in that respect, I guess. Maybe you fear that Archie is more popular than Cook in the long run, that's why you keep comparing their sales and their fan base. In first place you can't compare Archie with Cook because simply they are different singers. Cook sings Rock and it's known that Rock music sells more than Pop music..Second Cook won idol, he has gotten more promotion and exposure than Archie, but still Crush has sold more copies than Light on and Time of my life, and AlTNOY has sold more than Comeback to me and peaked higher on Chr and has been a big hit on Radio disney..(Archie's important market after all.)And Crush peaked higher than Light on and Time of my life on pop too. And about the sales 705,000 records for a pop album is nothing to be ashamed, not even Kelly Klarson has reached the 700,000 mark, and she has 2 hits on the radio. And Third is not Archie's fault that more people prefer to watch his videos on youtube than Cook's videos.. and about Kris and Adam, i don't know why people says that Adam is more popular than Kris? if he sold more than Archie was because idol pulled Archie's songs the day after the first day of the finals and left only Time of my life on itunes, Also Idol didn't release his Time of my life version like Adam did with NB, but this year they let Adam's songs on itunes too, and about Kris, i think he is more popular than Adam and he won by a big margin, that's why Ryan didn't say the final result. :)
|
|
hellothere
New Member
Joined: April 2009
Posts: 155
|
Post by hellothere on May 30, 2009 5:00:02 GMT -5
I kind of want him to skip the whole Idol tour and start recording. lol. Nah, really--I think for Kris the further away he can get from Idol, the better (once he fulfills his touring obligation). With this voting "scandal" crap that I'm pretty sure the Idol producers are encouraging privately but "discouraging" publicly, neither he nor Adam are being talked about in the mainstream press in terms of their talent or their potential as artists. And it's making Kris seem like an illegitimate winner. THIS. The whole voting scandal thing is a load of crap and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Idol producers had a hand in it. Do you think it will have any long-term effect on Kris? As far as it being some sort of sure thing that Adam will outsell Kris, I don't think so. When you look at the amount of hype that he has received (unprecedented for an AI contestant) compared to Kris, he should already be outselling him by a wide margin, and, well, he isn't. What the media hypes up and what the general public actually like and buy are often two completely different things.
|
|
HEAT
Platinum Member
I set this thread on fire!
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 1,266
|
Post by HEAT on May 30, 2009 5:28:16 GMT -5
No airplay updates for this song?
|
|
soundUPsceneDOWN
4x Platinum Member
Just go with the flow 'til your feet are back on the ground.
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 4,220
|
Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 30, 2009 16:27:29 GMT -5
No airplay updates for this song? I don't think it's doing all that well. But he's with Jive and I can easily see them burying this song like they buried This Is My Now. They're such a frugal label--why would they want to spend the time (and time is money) promoting a song that they didn't choose?
|
|
|
Post by Baby In a New Dress on May 30, 2009 16:49:20 GMT -5
I'm still not understanding how they "buried" anything. Stations didn't play TIMN, so it was forgotten. I don't really think there was a conscious effort to bury anything. It flopped on it's own. No help needed.
I like "No Boundaries" by Kris. It's nice, well-sung, and inspirational. He's not trying to be a cool rockstar, so he's not going to lose any cred or anything. And songs can become hits with little promotion so I still don't get that whole argument. I don't really see any negetive consequences if NB becomes an AC hit. It will keep him on the radio, and help sell albums.
|
|
Spacy-Haha
Gold Member
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 657
|
Post by Spacy-Haha on May 30, 2009 17:02:53 GMT -5
But Jive always, always has a plan. They buried Crush before it can reach top 10 so they can move to altnoy. They buried altnoy completely so they can move to single no. 3. They buried tmh before releasing it so they can move to album no.2. lol
|
|
|
Post by famed on May 30, 2009 18:10:45 GMT -5
Considering their track record with Idols, I'm hoping Jive treats Kris more like Jordin than Archie.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on May 30, 2009 18:29:28 GMT -5
^Jordin had better songs though...Archuleta had one strong track - not sure how record label can "bury" a song (cause if stations wanna keep playin it and it keeps gettin requests, they will) - I can see if a station drops one track for a stronger track, but they're not gonna drop a track for a weaker one IMO
Still can't believe Crush didn't hit Top 5 though...
|
|
soundUPsceneDOWN
4x Platinum Member
Just go with the flow 'til your feet are back on the ground.
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 4,220
|
Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 30, 2009 21:03:13 GMT -5
Jive *can* bury No Boundaries. TIMN wasn't sent to radio. That's what you call buried.
Jive doesn't treat Jordin any better or any worse than David A. They didn't promote No Air or OSAAT much at all--they don't throw a lot of money at Jordin. But both those songs had GREAT timing--they were what radio wanted at the time. And No Air had Chris Brown. Jive *did* push Tattoo just as it pushed Crush. Jive doesn't push second and third singles all that much, not even for Britney. It really depends a lot on timing and luck for them. Is that particular song what radio wants right now? If it is, then great. If not, then oh well--Jive isn't going to expend a lot of time (and time is money) pushing it to get the hit. ALTNOY had really bad timing. The song is great; I love the song. I think it's a better song than OSAAT. But the timing was all wrong. Radio didn't want a midtempo pop/R&B song about heartbreak. So I'll fault Jive for picking a song that was too different from the chart (Your Eyes Don't Lie would have been better), but I'm not going to fault them for doing what they always do, which is not push second singles.
That's what Kris will have to deal with. He's not going to be treated any differently than Jordin or David A. What Jive is good at, though, is formulating plans to bounce back from unsuccessful singles. In David A.'s case, the plan is to record a new album that will be better suited to the fickle nature of this year's CHR. It's not unlike what happened with Rihanna's first and second albums. First had one huge hit and then the second album came out 8 months later, and had 2 big hits.
I have a feeling that, given the style of music Kris will likely be making, he'll need this type of thinking. The acoustic-y vibe music only does well on CHR occasionally, especially this year. So Kris may be the type to get one CHR hit per album, like Jason Mraz.
|
|
sunpeach
New Member
Joined: June 2010
Posts: 166
|
Post by sunpeach on May 30, 2009 21:32:22 GMT -5
^Yeah Simon Cowell should start critiquing A. I's songwriters ...I'd almost rather remakes like Mad World and Wanted Dead Or Alive become hits Yeah, Simon and Randy complain almost every year how awful the winner's song is- maybe they should do something about it and involve themselves in the process- perhaps even letting the judges pick what song each of the final 2 should sing among winning songs. i mean, something! Bitching every year has accomplished nothing.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on May 30, 2009 22:00:53 GMT -5
Jive *can* bury No Boundaries. TIMN wasn't sent to radio. That's what you call buried. Jive doesn't treat Jordin any better or any worse than David A. They didn't promote No Air or OSAAT much at all--they don't throw a lot of money at Jordin. But both those songs had GREAT timing--they were what radio wanted at the time. And No Air had Chris Brown. Jive *did* push Tattoo just as it pushed Crush. Jive doesn't push second and third singles all that much, not even for Britney. It really depends a lot on timing and luck for them. Is that particular song what radio wants right now? If it is, then great. If not, then oh well--Jive isn't going to expend a lot of time (and time is money) pushing it to get the hit. ALTNOY had really bad timing. The song is great; I love the song. I think it's a better song than OSAAT. But the timing was all wrong. Yeah completely understand how a label can not promote a song from the start...just not sure how it can "bury" a song that's already out - IMO No Air and One Step At A Time were really well-written CHR tracks and both had really high callout from the time they were tested...A Little Too Not Over You seemed kinda awkward (IMO), and pretty sure callout wasn't that great on most stations that tested it (a couple medium-markets gave it a try like WPRO/Providence) I'm all for Kris Allen and esp. David A. gettin a Top 10 hit though...just don't think it can be done without quality material - and still think Crush got shafted but more by Clear Channel than by the label IMO
|
|