Oprah
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Post by Oprah on Jul 10, 2011 22:26:48 GMT -5
^The point is, the albums Madonna was releasing when she was Mariah's age were commercially successful and widely critically acclaimed. Mimi's last two can't compare regardless of the sales climate.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 11, 2011 3:36:48 GMT -5
Madonna also went a more electronic side of pop/dance for Ray of Light and Music which wasn't popular at the time but she still managed to do quite well. It wasn't until American Life that things went down for her and then Confessions saw some disconnection between her success outside the US vs. inside.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Jul 11, 2011 3:51:02 GMT -5
Madonna also went a more electronic side of pop/dance for Ray of Light and Music which wasn't popular at the time but she still managed to do quite well. It wasn't until American Life that things went down for her and then Confessions saw some disconnection between her success outside the US vs. inside. maybe on the mainstream side of radio per se, but Confessions is definitely a fan-favorite! It's among her best, imo. It's #1 for me, but i can understand why others would like LAP more. But not me.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jul 11, 2011 3:59:55 GMT -5
...but Mariah is the Queen of Pop.
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jul 11, 2011 4:33:44 GMT -5
...but Angelina Jolie is the Queen of Pop. I agree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2011 5:32:59 GMT -5
Madonna also went a more electronic side of pop/dance for Ray of Light and Music which wasn't popular at the time but she still managed to do quite well. It wasn't until American Life that things went down for her and then Confessions saw some disconnection between her success outside the US vs. inside. ...and yet Confessions still sold 1.7M in the US alone. Not bad for a "flop".
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 11, 2011 6:40:55 GMT -5
Madonna also went a more electronic side of pop/dance for Ray of Light and Music which wasn't popular at the time but she still managed to do quite well. It wasn't until American Life that things went down for her and then Confessions saw some disconnection between her success outside the US vs. inside. maybe on the mainstream side of radio per se, but Confessions is definitely a fan-favorite! It's among her best, imo. It's #1 for me, but i can understand why others would like LAP more. But not me. A hit for sure but in terms of radio and major hits, it didn't have them and a lot of people here judge a hit record based on it's singles. So i was swaying in their favour, and she still looks good. ;)
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jul 11, 2011 7:15:12 GMT -5
maybe on the mainstream side of radio per se, but Confessions is definitely a fan-favorite! It's among her best, imo. It's #1 for me, but i can understand why others would like LAP more. But not me. A hit for sure but in terms of radio and major hits, it didn't have them and a lot of people here judge a hit record based on it's singles. So i was swaying in their favour, and she still looks good. ;) "Hung Up" and "Sorry" were both big radio hits in Canada, and "Hung Up" was the biggest selling single in the US for 2 weeks. If that's not a hit, I don't know what is.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jul 11, 2011 8:09:55 GMT -5
I modified my post, Haus- the actual quote was "the history of women in women in popular music," but it's not all that far off to say popular music in general. :)
On a global scale, "Sorry" was a No. 1 in the UK and on the Eurochart, and, of course, "Hung Up" was beyond huge. Big disconnect between the singles' U.S. and international success. But, non-U.S. countries are not ageist like the USA, so they had no trouble spinning her music.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2011 8:43:08 GMT -5
Anyone releasing a disco album in the United States, not to mention an ABBA-sampling single in a year where every #1 was urban, was not going to find success regardless of their age.
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Oprah
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Post by Oprah on Jul 11, 2011 10:08:48 GMT -5
Anyone releasing a disco album in the United States, not to mention an ABBA-sampling single in a year where every #1 was urban, was not going to find success regardless of their age. I was just about to post this. Most of Madonna's lack of success in the US with her past few eras were less influenced by ageism than genre issues, promotion, and poor single choices.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 11, 2011 10:17:55 GMT -5
She did find success though. Just not on the radio. And that's what's so impressive about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2011 16:08:54 GMT -5
Anyone releasing a disco album in the United States, not to mention an ABBA-sampling single in a year where every #1 was urban, was not going to find success regardless of their age. Exactly, and I disagree with people who think that it would have been huge in the US if it was released this year. Disco is still not in in the US.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 18:31:36 GMT -5
Hard Candy sold more, and had a bigger hit than Mariah's last album and single. idts :-\ E=MC2 - 1.5 million Hard Candy - 750k Touch My Body #14 Minutes #3 Mariah is not here for international Pop music. Her core market is the US now and her main genre is R&B. 4M sold twice as much as TMB in the US. Further proof Hot 100 peaks are misleading. Albums are sold outsold the US. Singles are released outside the US. HC wiped the floor with E=MC2, and 4M blew TMB out of the water. Which do you think a record label rather have? An album that sells over 1 million in the US but barely 2 million globally, or an album that scans 740,000 in the US but sells over 2.5 million internationally for 3.5 million shifted globally? Do you honestly think they wouldn't want those extra sales because they came from icky foreigners? Cognitive dissonance isn't a good look.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 18:46:25 GMT -5
MANdonna is NOT the Queen of Pop. You have to be popular for that. You also have to be CURRENT and RELEVANT. OLDonna hasn't been any of those things for over a decade, maybe two. 3 things that cross HAGdonna off the list. Who was the first artist to get their own Glee episode? Madonna. Who had their last album hit #1 in 37 markets and sell 3.5 million on the back of one big hit single? Madonna. Who had the biggest tour ever by a female and solo act last time around? Madonna. Who just had the Weinsteins pay millions for the domestic theatrical distribution rights to a film they wrote and directed before scheduling it for an Oscar-bait December platform launch? Madonna. Madonna hasn't been relevant for over a decade or two? I guess the 100 million+ albums she has sold in the last 20 years and the many global smash singles and tours in that time frame were all enigmas?
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 18:50:00 GMT -5
Madonna is not the queen of pop. What she did in the past does NOT mean that she's the current queen of pop. The last hit she had was "4 Minutes", and he can thank Justin Timberlake for that one. Does she have an impressive career behind her? Yes. Does she have one now? No. Currently, her only career is having sexual encounters with guys more than half of her age. She has chosen not to put out a studio album in 3 years. That's not the same thing as not having a career. Fair enough. I see what you're saying, Haus. I think I misinterpreted some stuff in your posts, so that's my bad. I just think that in order to have a title as broad as Queen of Pop, you need to have an applaudable career that is still going strong currently. Madonna's career is more than applaudable, obviously. However, Madonna's not current, therefore I think her title has faded. She may the comparison to current pop stars because she was such a strong force years ago, but the same will probably happen 30 years from now when we have another mega-pop star, and everyone will compare them to Mariah, Gaga, Beyonce, etc. What are you basing this on? Madonna has no current material out, BY CHOICE. You say Madonna has no career, yet she makes more money in one day for doing absolutely nothing than you'll make in 10 years.
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wallace
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Post by wallace on Jul 11, 2011 18:55:57 GMT -5
Which do you think a record label rather have? An album that sells over 1 million in the US but barely 2 million globally, or an album that scans 740,000 in the US but sells over 2.5 million internationally for 3.5 million shifted globally? That depends. If you run the domestic side of the label, your year-end bonus may depend entirely on domestic sales, and when you get fired because your albums sold poorly in the US, it will be little consolation that the guy in charge of overseas sales did well with it ;) But as I noted back when this thread was on topic, that's one of the weaknesses of Rolling Stone's methodology, they count some things WW (concert sales, Facebook/Twitter fans), others only US (album & single sales).
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jul 11, 2011 18:58:43 GMT -5
LOL @ getting a glee epidoe = Queen of Pop.
Mariah is the Queen. fin.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 18:58:53 GMT -5
Mariah is the Queen. She's the Queen. The Queen of Music. So the "Queen of Music" had to hock her last album on HSN and couldn't even fill theaters on her last tour. Good to know.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 19:07:54 GMT -5
LOL @ getting a glee epidoe = Queen of Pop. Mariah is the Queen. fin.So Madonna sells more albums, sells more singles, sells more concert tickets, is far more critically acclaimed, is more famous, has had more musical and cultural impact, and has had far more success outside of the music facet of the entertainment industry than Mariah yet Mariah is the "Queen?"
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jul 11, 2011 19:38:53 GMT -5
How is any of that relevant? Top Artist04. Mariah Carey 20. Madonna
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 19:48:57 GMT -5
How is any of that relevant? Top Artist04. Mariah Carey 20. Madonna Then what criteria should be used? Who sold the most stripper pumps on HSN? Who has painted fake abs on their stomach more times?
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jul 11, 2011 19:50:24 GMT -5
How is any of that relevant? Top Artist04. Mariah Carey 20. Madonna Then what criteria should be used? Who sold the most stripper pumps on HSN? Who has painted fake abs on their stomach more times? How about, "who is better?" And again Mariah is #Winning.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 19:51:00 GMT -5
Your trolling is beyond tired.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jul 11, 2011 19:55:40 GMT -5
...how am I trolling? As SHEARS said, it's not like there's an official association that gives out the title. The title is given by the press & fans. I've seen dozen of artist given the title, and for me, it's Mariah. NONE of your post about sales, tours, Glee episodes ( ) is relevant to my opinion.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 20:03:54 GMT -5
...how am I trolling? As SHEARS said, it's not like there's an official association that gives out the title. The title is given by the press & fans. I've seen dozen of artist given the title, and for me, it's Mariah. NONE of your post about sales, tours, Glee episodes ( ) is relevant to my opinion. Problem is the fact that you prefer Mariah doesn't change the fact that Madonna wipes the floor with her in reality. You shouldn't have stated your personal opinion as overall fact, who you personally like better is irrelevant to who's had the bigger and more important career.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jul 11, 2011 20:08:26 GMT -5
...how am I trolling? As SHEARS said, it's not like there's an official association that gives out the title. The title is given by the press & fans. I've seen dozen of artist given the title, and for me, it's Mariah. NONE of your post about sales, tours, Glee episodes ( ) is relevant to my opinion. Problem is the fact that you prefer Mariah doesn't change the fact that Madonna wipes the floor with her in reality. You shouldn't have stated your personal opinion as overall fact, who you personally like better is irrelevant to who's had the bigger and more important career. Please show me where I mentioned anything about Mariah being bigger or having more impact? All I said is that Mariah Is The Queen of pop. And she is. You're the one going on a stanning rampage, quoting me, telling me I'm wrong, and posting stuff that I never said I cared about or argued with,
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 11, 2011 20:12:01 GMT -5
If Mariah or Madonna or Donna Summers or WHOEVER is who you consider to be the "Queen", why is this topic even relevant to you at all? It's just back and forth bickering where nobody will give in. All someone can do is give sales figures and numbers and stuff for the sake of comparison but if you admit that they don't matter to you, everyone's time is wasting and nothing is being done other than pointless bickering and trolling.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jul 11, 2011 20:16:18 GMT -5
Problem is the fact that you prefer Mariah doesn't change the fact that Madonna wipes the floor with her in reality. You shouldn't have stated your personal opinion as overall fact, who you personally like better is irrelevant to who's had the bigger and more important career. Please show me where I mentioned anything about Mariah being bigger or having more impact? All I said is that Mariah Is The Queen of pop. And she is.You're the one going on a stanning rampage, quoting me, telling me I'm wrong, and posting stuff that I never said I cared about or argued with, Only in your mind. This thread isn't for personal opinions.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jul 11, 2011 20:16:37 GMT -5
If Mariah or Madonna or Donna Summers or WHOEVER is who you consider to be the "Queen", why is this topic even relevant to you at all? It's just back and forth bickering where nobody will give in. All someone can do is give sales figures and numbers and stuff for the sake of comparison but if you admit that they don't matter to you, everyone's time is wasting and nothing is being done other than pointless bickering and trolling. Exactly. I'm not even sure why I was quoted. If I wanted sales facts, I would've checked wikipedia or google.
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