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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 5, 2014 19:38:11 GMT -5
I can't help but feel like in some ways, Artpop was her "sellout" "label control" album because, to me, it is most like her The Fame material post-The Fame. The only thing that goes against that thought is the fact that the songs themselves aren't particularly radio friendly and the ones that are have aspects of them that make them really un-radio friendly (ie. Dope or Venus).
Either way, I do feel like Artpop was a step backward in terms of quality and overall sound. I said when it first came out that if it followed The Fame, and came before The Fame Monster, it would have been fine in the projection of Gaga material because it seems to fit closer in what she was going for with The Fame, leading into The Fame Monster. I almost feel, to some degree, she made Artpop with her label in mind hoping it would please them while still keeping her style in the songs so in that sense, it isn't actually what she wanted to make but what she felt like she had to to appease the label - only it didn't quite work supposedly.
I think what she does need now is to have an era, or at least an EP or a few songs, that are easy-to-digest and made to be hits. I think she can still do it without sacrificing her vision too much. It's just a matter of making something catchy. I think Do What U Want is a perfect example of that. The song is radio-made, easy to listen to, has a simple message but also doubled as something that was relevant for the point she wanted to deliver.
Once she gets a few indisputable hits, she can afford to continue doing what she wants (and I what I want from her). There is a fine line she has to walk and I think she can do it, she just actually has to. Songs like You And I, Gypsy and The Edge of Glory do show the best of both sides. And while I'd love an album full of Scheißes, Auras and Swines, she does need a few Do What U Wants too. Contrast is important.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Mar 5, 2014 20:02:22 GMT -5
I think what she does need now is to have an era, or at least an EP or a few songs, that are easy-to-digest and made to be hits. It's not that easy tho. There is a huge stigma surrounding Lady Gaga now, and no matter how many Clear Channel deals, iTunes banners, or performances will fix that JUST because the music happens to be good. Look at DWYW. No one bought it. No one cared. She performed it over and over and she never got a bump on iTunes. It's not cool to like Lady Gaga anymore. Us gay people like her, but we are a small portion of the big picture. It's going to take a monumental effort like TEOM to gain back control. It's possible of course, and anything can happen, but with the team she has now, and how sloppy everything is handled, it's not looking good. The sales for DWYW are telling, don't you think? |
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Post by Rocky on Mar 5, 2014 20:16:52 GMT -5
Imo DWUW did just okay if you count in her current position. It could've been handled well, but it wasn't, get over it.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Mar 5, 2014 20:35:40 GMT -5
Imo DWUW did just okay if you count in her current position. It could've been handled well, but it wasn't, get over it. As Ronald Reagan once said "there you go again." A video wasn't going to turn things around no matter how many of you think otherwise. She had the airplay, she had major, MAJOR prime spot performances, and still no one bought it. I think that's what needs to be addressed, beyond the "make catchy music" factor. |
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Post by Rocky on Mar 5, 2014 20:44:53 GMT -5
Jeez, you're always exaggerating, that's like your trademark.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 5, 2014 20:49:56 GMT -5
I think what she does need now is to have an era, or at least an EP or a few songs, that are easy-to-digest and made to be hits. It's not that easy tho. There is a huge stigma surrounding Lady Gaga now, and no matter how many Clear Channel deals, iTunes banners, or performances will fix that JUST because the music happens to be good. Look at DWYW. No one bought it. No one cared. She performed it over and over and she never got a bump on iTunes. It's not cool to like Lady Gaga anymore. Us gay people like her, but we are a small portion of the big picture. It's going to take a monumental effort like TEOM to gain back control. It's possible of course, and anything can happen, but with the team she has now, and how sloppy everything is handled, it's not looking good. The sales for DWYW are telling, don't you think? I don't necessarily disagree but I don't fully agree. Imo DWUW did just okay if you count in her current position. It could've been handled well, but it wasn't. I think this post does respond to a lot of what you're saying. The song did do quite well on radio considering everything it was against. While I don't think people actively chose to avoid buying the single because the label or the artist wasn't actively or properly promoting it, I do think the lack of proper promotion did play a huge role in limiting what could have been a bigger hit. Otherwise, why does a label need to promote a song at all if it wouldn't have made a difference? I do firmly believe that people pick up on aspects of proper promotion and it persuades them to act on that. That isn't to say Do What U Want wasn't promoted. As you said, she performed it enough and in some big spots. SNL, AMAs and The Voice. But there was some disconnect between those performances that I think worked against the promotion in some ways. A video could have touched on each of those performances and given them a connection to have them somewhat make sense. Or at the very least, given the song another avenue with which to be processed by listeners and audiences. I do agree that it isn't cool to like Lady Gaga anymore. That doesn't mean she's done. I learned from Mariah Carey's days of being dangerously uncool in 2002 to never count someone out again. I don't think Gaga has reached that point by a long shot but Mariah came back to be the top singer of 2005. I think Gaga still have huge untapped potential to be cool again. Perhaps not on the same level she was in 2010 but in different ways. At the very least, she can be marketed as just another pop star. At the most, she can go for a modern day female Elton John/David Bowie and move away from pop radio entirely. I agree with you that her image is the issue right now but I think having some solid and clear direction will go a long way. |
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Post by balletgirlmom on Mar 5, 2014 21:01:19 GMT -5
Its not like Elton John and David Bowie moved away from POP radio. They just got older. Older artists don't get play on mainstream radio so older artists tend to do whatever they want and maybe it gets on AC radio. Older men usually can get on AC radio but older female artists struggle even at AC radio. Cher just got on AC radio but it took her nearly 6 months of trying. Cher turns 68 in May. Lady Gaga is still in her 20s so of course her stuff is aimed at mainstream radio. When Gaga is Cher's age, she will not get mainstream airplay but maybe AC and of course dance. Do What You Want is a great song and my favorite on ArtPop. I agree there is a backlash against Gaga. If I were her, I would just record good songs and hold my head high and try not to overdo it with costumes and platform shoes. I would let the talent shine. Katy Perry, Beyonce, Lorde, Miley Cyrus and other younger gals are perceived as sort of fun while Gaga is perceived as out there and not in a good way. Gaga has a ton of talent so I hope THAT can shine through!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 21:07:01 GMT -5
Jeez, you're always exaggerating, that's like your trademark. If this is directed at who I think it is, I wouldn't give them the satisfaction that their opinion is actually getting a reaction. Anyways, a few positive points regarding "Do What U Want" would include it being her first top 10 rhythmic hit since "Telephone" back in 2010. She might have an easier time there with future releases and it actually gained on pop today so, hopefully it'll continue to get minor play until the next release. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 6, 2014 7:13:12 GMT -5
Its not like Elton John and David Bowie moved away from POP radio. They just got older. Older artists don't get play on mainstream radio so older artists tend to do whatever they want and maybe it gets on AC radio. I was referring more to the music aspect of things when mentioning Elton and Bowie. Gaga could, in theory, aim for a more "AC" sound (as far as radio is concerned) by doing experimental rock, classic rock inspired pop rather than dance pop. If I were her, I would just record good songs and hold my head high and try not to overdo it with costumes and platform shoes. That's kind of apart of who she is. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Mar 6, 2014 8:28:39 GMT -5
Post-Fame and pre-ArtPop[/i], she only had one EP that was packaged with that first album and one studio album. Some talk about her as if she's been in the game for eons, I tell ya. :)
If she undergoes an image transformation, that could so something for her "untapped potential."
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Post by CriminallySmooth on Mar 6, 2014 10:54:36 GMT -5
It's really cool to see how much conversation Gaga generates. No matter what people usually have an actual opinion towards her or her music or something she does. Especially when you compare her to her "peers" that released around the same time and are doing better in the typical commercial platforms. I think Artpop is far from over. I love this album so much. I'm going to try and travel somewhere to see the Artrave. It'd be criminal not to.
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August
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Post by August on Mar 6, 2014 11:41:59 GMT -5
Artpop falls 61 - 87 on the Billboard 200 this week.
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no apologist
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Post by no apologist on Mar 6, 2014 11:46:43 GMT -5
Are you seriously comparing those two albums to Artpop? Are you listening to what I am saying? Those two albums had far more commercial appeal than Artpop. If they didn't, the singles were catchy enough for top 40 and catchy enough to sell her albums. None of the singles from Artpop were catchy enough for an occasional listener like me, and I guess the GP though so too. Yes I am. At the time of their respective releases, I don't think The Fame Monster or Born This Way had the initial commercial appeal that made them fit in comfortably with the sounds that were in that the time. I think, due to Gaga's name and status of those respective moments, radio made room for them and, especially in the case of TFM, shifted toward that sound. All three albums (including Artpop) took me a few listens to really get into them and while I personally do consider Artpop to be the lesser of the three, I think its biggest obstacle is that the harder electro-pop sound isn't as prominent as it was during the two previous albums. If Gaga was still on top of the world during Artpop's release, I've no doubt that she would have gotten hit after hit from the album. Had Artpop been released after TFM instead of Born This Way, I think it would have been a bigger era than BTW ended up being. I do think you're putting too much emphasis on the sound of the songs and not enough on the image of the artist. Obviously both contribute heavily to the success of most eras but when it comes to an established artist of Gaga's calibre, image is a huge thing. As far as the immediate catchiness of the songs, I think Artpop as a whole is catchier than Born This Way. I don't think the era's underperformance is because the songs aren't catchy but because her image is no longer as appealing, which gives her less of a pass for having songs that aren't as in sync with today's sound, plus the sloppy promotion schedule and the general lack of awareness of her team. The material just isn't good compared to the last two albums, I'm sorry. People are always bitchin' about promotion, but at the end of the day, if people wanted the album they would have purchased it. Case in point BEYONCE. She, herself, had just come off of an under performing era with 4. And what if people actually heard the album in full, but just didn't want to buy it? What about that? |
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Mar 6, 2014 11:52:31 GMT -5
If they are waiting another month to make a renewed push, there absolutely MUST be new music involved. It would take insane hubris to try and relaunch such a high profile project with nothing new. Maybe if there are videos for all the songs, so there's an ARTPOP visual album to go with the music, but otherwise, I would be absolutely stunned.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 6, 2014 12:38:08 GMT -5
Yes I am. At the time of their respective releases, I don't think The Fame Monster or Born This Way had the initial commercial appeal that made them fit in comfortably with the sounds that were in that the time. I think, due to Gaga's name and status of those respective moments, radio made room for them and, especially in the case of TFM, shifted toward that sound. All three albums (including Artpop) took me a few listens to really get into them and while I personally do consider Artpop to be the lesser of the three, I think its biggest obstacle is that the harder electro-pop sound isn't as prominent as it was during the two previous albums. If Gaga was still on top of the world during Artpop's release, I've no doubt that she would have gotten hit after hit from the album. Had Artpop been released after TFM instead of Born This Way, I think it would have been a bigger era than BTW ended up being. I do think you're putting too much emphasis on the sound of the songs and not enough on the image of the artist. Obviously both contribute heavily to the success of most eras but when it comes to an established artist of Gaga's calibre, image is a huge thing. As far as the immediate catchiness of the songs, I think Artpop as a whole is catchier than Born This Way. I don't think the era's underperformance is because the songs aren't catchy but because her image is no longer as appealing, which gives her less of a pass for having songs that aren't as in sync with today's sound, plus the sloppy promotion schedule and the general lack of awareness of her team. The material just isn't good compared to the last two albums, I'm sorry. People are always bitchin' about promotion, but at the end of the day, if people wanted the album they would have purchased it. Case in point BEYONCE. She, herself, had just come off of an under performing era with 4. And what if people actually heard the album in full, but just didn't want to buy it? What about that? Coercion and repeated-exposure to something does a lot. I can't count the number of times I've bought an album by someone I only semi-liked or by a new artist I barely knew because of repeated exposure to it through different means such as blog posts, music reviews, seeing a good video, a hit song, or whatever. If people who wanted an album would buy it, what's the point of even doing promotion at all? |
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Mar 6, 2014 13:42:23 GMT -5
Promotion is necessary, but you need the right type of promotion. I think this boards lumps any promotion into the same thing when it can be a lot more complex than that. Her live performances of DWUW, for example, were extremely off-putting and reminded people of why they hate her. The one performance that did click (I actually forget which awards show, but the president-themed one) actually made the song rise pretty far on Itunes.
I guess my point is that it isn't lack of promo that is the issue, but the wrong types of promo that make people focus on what they don't like about Gaga rather than what they do. That is partially why I was frustrated with the Artpop performance. Like, I wish she hadn't even shown up and performed-it was the musical equivalent of ripping up 100 dollar bills instead of spending them.
For being in the midst of a HUGE backlash (a career-threatening one) her numbers really don't seem that bad to me. See numbers of other career-threatening massive backlash eras. One single over 2 million, another will sell (or might be close now?) to a million+ all in the midst of people wanting to hate her and see her fail, some embarrassingly bad performances, and pretty much one video when every major star now has like, three per single and extremely professional and slick products. So, in addition to a hate-filled backlash they also have had just a horrible era for creating a cohesive promotional campaign with great timing-I have literally never seen an era this poorly organized and amateur feeling for a major artist. Ever.
All I am asking for from a new era/re-release/relaunch/whatever the hell is coming up is an actual cohesive era. A clear set of singles released with proper timing. A video, lyric video, and possibly behind-the-scenes video for every single released with proper timing. Gaga to look like she gives a damn about her various looks again. Throw in a few professional, put together performances and I will be happy. These seem like basics that even first timers releasing a cd should know to do, but apparently with Gaga we need to go back to the basics because she forget them somewhere along the way.
I think with the right song and the right types of promo she will be fine. It definitely isn't over. However, this talk of her waiting 3 months after DWUW peaks to release GUY makes me think she still doesn't get it at all and she will continue to struggle.
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Mar 6, 2014 14:18:10 GMT -5
All I am asking for from a new era/re-release/relaunch/whatever the hell is coming up is an actual cohesive era. A clear set of singles released with proper timing. A video, lyric video, and possibly behind-the-scenes video for every single released with proper timing. Gaga to look like she gives a damn about her various looks again. Throw in a few professional, put together performances and I will be happy. These seem like basics that even first timers releasing a cd should know to do, but apparently with Gaga we need to go back to the basics because she forget them somewhere along the way. I think with the right song and the right types of promo she will be fine. It definitely isn't over. However, this talk of her waiting 3 months after DWUW peaks to release GUY makes me think she still doesn't get it at all and she will continue to struggle. All of this. Preach it. And remember, Monsters. If you think this is the end of Gaga or the public is disinterested, just remind yourself that it could be worse.Also, Billboard spills tea on the tour rumors. (SPOILER: It's selling just fine) |
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Post by die Lotterie on Mar 6, 2014 15:17:32 GMT -5
lol.  |
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ILLUSION
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Post by ILLUSION on Mar 6, 2014 15:32:50 GMT -5
SLAY, BILLBOARD! SLAY!
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Mar 6, 2014 16:14:25 GMT -5
Not going to lie it is a great sign if this tour does well. Having a touring base is so important and sometimes those are demolished when someone has a "flop" era. I was worried sales would be so soft they would consider cancelling to be honest.
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Kishi KCM
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Post by Kishi KCM on Mar 6, 2014 16:57:07 GMT -5
I knew they would be adding dates...they didn't want to over saturate and release all of the dates at once!
According to Billboard, she's performing at SXSW in Austin next week Thursday.
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Hussy
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Post by Hussy on Mar 6, 2014 18:54:17 GMT -5
she is re-launching ARTPOP with G.U.Y , seriously Gaga?  Besides G.U.Y being a weak single maybe, re-launching means adding new songs and that wait made me assume that she is recording some new hits lol i wanna see the POKERFACE, JUST DANCE, & PAPARAZZI Gaga again !!! |
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Lahey's Lucky Star
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Post by Lahey's Lucky Star on Mar 6, 2014 19:31:33 GMT -5
she is re-launching ARTPOP with G.U.Y , seriously Gaga? Besides G.U.Y being a weak single maybe, re-launching means adding new songs and that wait made me assume that she is recording some new hits lol i wanna see the POKERFACE, JUST DANCE, & PAPARAZZI Gaga again !!! "G.U.Y." is a JAM. Sure, it's no "Gypsy", but at least it's an attention-grabber. And it's on the lines of "LoveGame" anyway, so I don't see why you're complaining. |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Mar 6, 2014 21:59:25 GMT -5
3/15 Billboard 200 sales estimates:
@chartnews: US album sales: #87 @ladygaga, ARTPOP 4,000 (672,000 total).
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85la
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Post by 85la on Mar 7, 2014 0:52:19 GMT -5
It's amazing how much commercial performance affects people's views of the quality of an album. For example, Metacritic, which gathers reviews of albums mostly before their full commercial impact is felt, gives Artpop a 61 out of 100, which is not outrageously lower than The Fame or the Fame Monster, (71 and 78 respectively).
Also, for the record, Prism has the exact same score as Artpop.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Mar 7, 2014 11:34:34 GMT -5
It's amazing how much commercial performance affects people's views of the quality of an album. For example, Metacritic, which gathers reviews of albums mostly before their full commercial impact is felt, gives Artpop a 61 out of 100, which is not outrageously lower than The Fame or the Fame Monster, (71 and 78 respectively). And a lot of the bad reviews make it very, very clear that they aren't even really talking about the music. They talk about how they don't like Gaga herself anymore and then slap a low grade on it sometimes without even mentioning any specific song or the music at all. I feel like (depending on the course her career takes) Artpop will be one of those albums that had reactions that were more about people's current feelings about Gaga than the actual music itself. Before anyone gets defensive, I am not pointing fingers at everyone or even people on here. Sort of like Bionic actually-now everyone seems to agree (even non-fans) that it was a pretty good little pop cd that had a bad opening single but loads of great pop gems. I think Artpop will be that way in a few years and everyone will be talking about the "lost" pop gem that was loaded with great pop songs. I may be wrong though. Some cds just don't hold up. Right now I still stick with that it is a great pop cd that people would be fawning over if it was released instead of BTW though I do think it isn't overall as strong as BTW or Fame Monster. There are several songs I never listen to as opposed to FM and BTW where I pretty much literally love or at least like every single song. |
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dbhmr
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>
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Post by dbhmr on Mar 7, 2014 11:40:08 GMT -5
It's amazing how much commercial performance affects people's views of the quality of an album. For example, Metacritic, which gathers reviews of albums mostly before their full commercial impact is felt, gives Artpop a 61 out of 100, which is not outrageously lower than The Fame or the Fame Monster, (71 and 78 respectively). And a lot of the bad reviews make it very, very clear that they aren't even really talking about the music. They talk about how they don't like Gaga herself anymore and then slap a low grade on it sometimes without even mentioning any specific song or the music at all. I feel like (depending on the course her career takes) Artpop will be one of those albums that had reactions that were more about people's current feelings about Gaga than the actual music itself. Before anyone gets defensive, I am not pointing fingers at everyone or even people on here. Sort of like Bionic actually-now everyone seems to agree (even non-fans) that it was a pretty good little pop cd that had a bad opening single but loads of great pop gems. I think Artpop will be that way in a few years and everyone will be talking about the "lost" pop gem that was loaded with great pop songs. I may be wrong though. Some cds just don't hold up. Right now I still stick with that it is a great pop cd that people would be fawning over if it was released instead of BTW though I do think it isn't overall as strong as BTW or Fame Monster. There are several songs I never listen to as opposed to FM and BTW where I pretty much literally love or at least like every single song. I actually think album reviews have more to do with the album era that came before it--if an artist has garnered goodwill and/or huge success from a previous album, the reviews seem to skew more positive; or, if the press was worse, the reviews can skew more negative. But still, given that there are a lot of fans like myself who loved her first three releases and don't like this one, I don't think outside factors should be getting all the blame here (I also never bought into all the backlash she was getting during the BTW era). And Gaga still tends to garner a lot more critical support than your average pop star (and, until this point, it's been well earned). And, for what it's worth, I still think Bionic is a mostly terrible album featuring some of the best ballads she's ever recorded. "Not Myself Tonight," however, seems more unjustly maligned. |
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Post by Push The Button on Mar 7, 2014 11:49:58 GMT -5
Bionic and ARTPOP are similar in the sense that they are both CD's that include a mix of absolutely great songs AND some of the worst songs of their careers.
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Mar 7, 2014 18:14:15 GMT -5
Bionic and ARTPOP are nothing alike. One was a bunch of different sounds in hopes of scoring a hit, the other one's message is loud and clear.
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sbk
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Post by sbk on Mar 7, 2014 21:43:49 GMT -5
I hope the next era is a reinvention musically and image-wise. Like how Nelly Furtado flopped with Folklore and then completely changed her image and sound and slayed the world with Loose. She's too young to be delegated to being a gay niche act already :(
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