secretchef
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Post by secretchef on Jun 24, 2011 12:22:26 GMT -5
^ Neither TT nor SS ever had a large enough impression to generate substantial sales. TLG is doing even worse... The label may be able to push it to #20 or so, but I don't see the use of doing this except may be so that the song is not listed as a complete flop that would discourage PDs from playing a new single. Agreed. Why spent the money on a song that obviously radio isn't interested in playing? One auto add in two weeks and no movement in itunes. I know it's hard to generate sales with such low AI, which is usually where a fanbase kicks in and tries to sustain sales interest until the AI can catch up. I honestly don't know which song RCA should pick for the next single. I won't make an album sales prediction, I have no idea at this point.
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greenlight
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Post by greenlight on Jun 24, 2011 12:27:28 GMT -5
^but that the problem with HAC as a format by itself. Unless your top 5 ish, songs don't sell well. I agree. Songs that are started on HAC need to climb high on the format, and in addition, if they do, they are usually released and pushed on Pop. An HAC top 5 can double its audience impression by reaching top 20 on pop. If they don't, the audience impression stays too small to generate decent sales. Agreed. Why spent the money on a song that obviously radio isn't interested in playing? One auto add in two weeks and no movement in itunes. I know it's hard to generate sales with such low AI, which is usually where a fanbase kicks in and tries to sustain sales interest until the AI can catch up. I honestly don't know which song RCA should pick for the next single. I won't make an album sales prediction, I have no idea at this point. I am not sure which song should be the next single either, but what is certain is that he needs radio presence. Whatever the opening numbers, the sales are going to dry out quickly without it. Could good album sales give the signal to PDs that Cook is popular and they start to play TLG? I doubt that it is how it works. Hopefully, they'll play single #2.
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Post by out of reach on Jun 24, 2011 13:29:08 GMT -5
I don't think this is specifically a David Cook issue. He has songs on this record that 1-2 years ago I could say that HAC would play them.
Unless you are Daughtry/Lifehouse/Train HAC has become a pop crossover feeding ground. It's a tough battle for primarily HAC artists. I honestly don't know what they should release as well at this point.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 24, 2011 19:23:32 GMT -5
Unless you are Daughtry/Lifehouse/Train HAC has become a pop crossover feeding ground. It's a tough battle for primarily HAC artists. I honestly don't know what they should release as well at this point. Sorry, but you are making excuses!!! If your songs aren't good, you're not gonna get a hit, on any format.
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Post by out of reach on Jun 24, 2011 22:00:33 GMT -5
Unless you are Daughtry/Lifehouse/Train HAC has become a pop crossover feeding ground. It's a tough battle for primarily HAC artists. I honestly don't know what they should release as well at this point. Sorry, but you are making excuses!!! If your songs aren't good, you're not gonna get a hit, on any format. I agree with you and TLG is a mediocre song but Daghtry/Lifehouse's last singles we're mediocre and they got airplay. My point is David has some good songs on his CD but I honestly don't know if HAC will play them. I would love to hear Circadian or TMO or Paper heart but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.
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HereIsGone
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Post by HereIsGone on Jun 25, 2011 6:57:10 GMT -5
...Yeah no. September and Falling In were way better than TLG and I don't even care for Falling In.
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trei1658
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Post by trei1658 on Jun 25, 2011 6:57:50 GMT -5
VH1 Top 20 Countdown: 06.25.11
#13 David Cook "The Last Goodbye" [2|13] [+4]
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 25, 2011 9:28:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. I just listened to the entire album. Well, I guess I need to be honest with myself, I'm just not into this kind of music. Honestly, I don't know if I have ever been as I own about zero albums from artists that I think David is similiar to (Lifehouse, Daughtry, 3DD, Nickleback, etc.). I actually think the album is weak enough that David may have a hard time getting on the road with it. I think he is going to have decent first week sales and then probably drop really fast. Maybe 10-15 weeks in the top 200. Here are my main issues with the album...David can sing but his voice just doesn't do a thing for me. It's pretty emotionless really. I much perfer a voice like the guy from The Script that has some character to his voice. Having said that, I might find David's voice lifeless on these songs because the production is so horrible. Everything sounds fine but the whole album is so BORING. Carcadia sounded promising for the first minute (okay maybe there's some uniqueness here) and then this huge, overproduced and oversung chorus kicks in. And that same buzzkill happens on every one of these songs. It's a shame really as I think there may be a decent song or two hidden behind all the gloss. That's why I do think that if David's label will even spend the money to put the guy on tour behind these songs that they will probably play better live. In the live setting David is probably able to convey some emotion with his voice. I have always been a fan of the producer, Matt Serletic, and I was disappointed when the other members of MB20 (not Rob) ditched Matt. But I have to say that he didn't do David any favors here and I hope that he is not picked to produce the album they are working on (right now it looks like it may be self-produced). I actually know why this song was picked as the single. It actually stood out to me as I listened to the songs because it was the only one that seemed to have any energy to it. I've know that we have been saying that David would have done better if he had come out in the late 1990s or early 2000s when this type of music was still getting massive HotAC play and quite a bit of pop airplay but I have to disagree. I don't think these songs are even strong enough to have made much of an impact back then. And here's the career killer, David just doesn't have any charisma. I think that's hard to get around but then again, Lifehouse has maintained a really nice career for themselves over 10 years now and I think Jason Wade is extremely boring too so obviously not everyone agrees with me. I do wish David well and I hope that I am wrong and that these songs connect with people outside his fanbase. I wrote down a song or two that I kind of liked as I went through the album and I guess I would go with Paper Heart. It seemed to me that that song had the least amount of production smoke and mirrors applied to it. Fade Into Me might do decently on HotAC as well. Forget about any other formats with these songs. I don't even think anything will work really well on AC. It's like these songs are stuck in the middle of nowhere...not alternative at all, not really good rock, not pop....
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 25, 2011 9:56:56 GMT -5
Sorry, but you are making excuses!!! If your songs aren't good, you're not gonna get a hit, on any format. I agree with you and TLG is a mediocre song but Daghtry/Lifehouse's last singles we're mediocre and they got airplay. Yeah, I see what you mean (maybe not their very last singles, but both Daughtry and Lifehouse have had some mediocre stuff chart well IMO) - but these are bands that have also put out incredible stuff for years, so they're a good "investment" for radio - unless David Cook proves he can put out some really good HAC songs to accompany the mediocre ones, there's really no reason IMO for radio to invest in him As far as this single though (The Last Goodbye), I think it would flop on HAC even if it were recorded by Lifehouse, Daughtry, etc. - also listened to Time Marches On, and to me the lyrics just aren't up to par, even with more mediocre Daughtry/Lifehouse songs "Time marches on without you" is such an obvious statement, and IMO it's really not a very meaningful thing to say, never mind using it as a hook for a song
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folkfan
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Post by folkfan on Jun 25, 2011 10:24:04 GMT -5
I'm kind of amused at the level of "shock" that some folks who never like David Cook's songs have expressed about not liking this song or this album. Maybe he's just not your thing, you know?
A lot of it may just be personal taste. I love DC's voice and think it shows a lot of character and emotion, but I'm not crazy about the voice of the lead singer from the Script. Rumors is the opposite. Etc.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 25, 2011 10:38:04 GMT -5
I'm kind of amused at the level of "shock" that some folks who never like David Cook's songs have expressed about not liking this song or this album. Maybe he's just not your thing, you know? Yeah, I agree. David's music isn't my thing...most of the AI stuff isn't my thing to be honest. And I don't think anyone is shocked that they aren't thrilled with the album. I actually like David as a person and gave both of his albums a listen and past on each one. That's probably a lot more effort than he is going to get from non-AI fans. Based on what I heard today, I think I might actually prefer Kris Allen over David. His voice is on par with David's IMO and his first single was definitely better even if it was a cover (ironically written by The Script). Maybe I should actually give this British boyband a listen. I might be missing something that I might actually like from a new artist. BTW, I was curious what kind of music you like so I just checked out a few of your past posts. It looks like you are a fan of several AI contestants as well as Taylor Swift. So yeah, our taste is music is quite different . Now, on to check out some stuff by Fitz & The Tantrums....love their song MoneyGrabber and two people recommended the album over on the Rock/Alt board.
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rosemoor
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Post by rosemoor on Jun 25, 2011 11:03:27 GMT -5
Actually I love Cook's voice, that's why I liked him back on idol. Same with Kris. I do think most idols are way above average singers. But most of them do suck at creating any interesting or even just catchy songs. Sometimes I hear a good song by some band's whiny lead singer and wish some idol sang it. But I'll pick a great song by a average singer over a boring song by a great singer any day. I guess most people do, maybe that's why most idols flop.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 25, 2011 11:16:04 GMT -5
Actually I love Cook's voice, that's why I liked him back on idol. Same with Kris. I do think most idols are way above average singers. But most of them do suck at creating any interesting or even just catchy songs. Sometimes I hear a good song by some band's whiny lead singer and wish some idol sang it. But I'll pick a great song by a average singer over a boring song by a great singer any day. I guess most people do, maybe that's why most idols flop. Gotta say that I agree with this. Put a few of the AI non-stars with some great material and somehow get them to start owning the stage and you have a winner. I do think Daughtry has charisma even though I'm not crazy about his music. That's why he is still around after two albums. I do like some of Carrie's music and Kelly's. I quit watching AI I think three years ago.
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folkfan
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Post by folkfan on Jun 25, 2011 11:42:13 GMT -5
I'd say I probably lean toward AAA of any of the major formats, some Alternative rock, some HAC, and some country and alt-country. There is some straight-up CHR stuff that I like but not much that I like enough to buy.
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Post by healthyobsession on Jun 25, 2011 12:17:13 GMT -5
Actually I love Cook's voice, that's why I liked him back on idol. Same with Kris. I do think most idols are way above average singers. But most of them do suck at creating any interesting or even just catchy songs. Sometimes I hear a good song by some band's whiny lead singer and wish some idol sang it. But I'll pick a great song by a average singer over a boring song by a great singer any day. I guess most people do, maybe that's why most idols flop. Gotta say that I agree with this. Put a few of the AI non-stars with some great material and somehow get them to start owning the stage and you have a winner. I do think Daughtry has charisma even though I'm not crazy about his music. That's why he is still around after two albums. I do like some of Carrie's music and Kelly's. I quit watching AI I think three years ago. Does a song become successful because it is a "good song" (whatevever that means) or because it gets great promo and is played non-stop? Are Kelly and Carrie successful because their songs are "good" or because they get great promo and support from their labels. My December received the least support/promo from Kelly's label and has been her least successful album to date. As I said earlier, if TLG received a bigger push from RCA, it would be a hit. Unfortunately, RCA seems to be treating TLG like it did Lee's Sweet Serendipidy.
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greenlight
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Post by greenlight on Jun 25, 2011 13:32:07 GMT -5
Does a song become successful because it is a "good song" (whatevever that means) or because it gets great promo and is played non-stop? Are Kelly and Carrie successful because their songs are "good" or because they get great promo and support from their labels. My December received the least support/promo from Kelly's label and has been her least successful album to date. As I said earlier, if TLG received a bigger push from RCA, it would be a hit. Unfortunately, RCA seems to be treating TLG like it did Lee's Sweet Serendipidy. As you believe that TLG would be a hit if RCA had pushed it more, what do you think that their reasons are for not doing it?
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 25, 2011 14:19:37 GMT -5
I'd say I probably lean toward AAA of any of the major formats, some Alternative rock, some HAC, and some country and alt-country. There is some straight-up CHR stuff that I like but not much that I like enough to buy. Well, then there is probably some stuff that we do like in common in there somewhere. I am just not a fan of Taylor Swift's songwriting and singing. Nothing against the young lady herself. I just find her music beyond dull. I have to agree that there's not much new stuff that I'm invested in that much to buy and the few albums that I have bought over the past few years, I've listened to about 3 times and that's it. I think the last three albums I bought have been the new ones by Miranda Lambert, Sara Barellis, and Amy Winehouse (yeah, that long ago). Newer albums that I probably am interested in getting our Mumford & Sons and Adele. I have liked a few of Lady Gaga's first few singles but I know that I probably couldn't take a whole album of her songs in one sitting.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 25, 2011 14:33:46 GMT -5
Does a song become successful because it is a "good song" (whatevever that means) or because it gets great promo and is played non-stop? [/quote] Good question. I think a really big hit may take some of both but repeated listenings can start to make a lot of mediocre songs sound good. Case in point...I hated Katy Perry's Firework the first time I heard it. I just thought her vocals were horrible on that song even for her standards. Now, I've heard the song enough that I actually kind of like it. I know that when we hear new stuff by our favorite artists that doesn't blow us out of the water, that we are vested enough in that artist to keep on listening until something about the song finally clicks with us. I have been a Rob Thomas fan for about 12 years now and there are very few of his songs or MB20's songs that I don't like. Some that I don't love but very few that I will actually skip. Of course, I don't have the old stuff on repeat either. I can get burnt out on anything even my old favorites like U2, Tom Petty, Elton John, etc. But the point is that with our favorites we take the time to learn to like their stuff. With artists that we are just casual about we don't. Therefore, either two things have to happen to have a hit...either the song is just that awesome and a wide enough range of people like it so well (Adele's Rolling In The Deep) that it eventually starts to get airplay and it becomes a hit. Or the song receives so much airplay and exposure that it becomes a hit even if the song isn't that great just because the song becomes so familiar to us that we learn to like it (Firework for me).
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tvoss20
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Post by tvoss20 on Jun 25, 2011 17:21:58 GMT -5
Sure glad I listened to the album myself after reading the bashfest on Cook's new album. I personally like it alot. Just goes to show you gotta try stuff out and make your own opinions.
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slamina
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Post by slamina on Jun 25, 2011 18:18:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. I just listened to the entire album. Well, I guess I need to be honest with myself, I'm just not into this kind of music. Honestly, I don't know if I have ever been as I own about zero albums from artists that I think David is similiar to (Lifehouse, Daughtry, 3DD, Nickleback, etc.). I actually think the album is weak enough that David may have a hard time getting on the road with it. I think he is going to have decent first week sales and then probably drop really fast. Maybe 10-15 weeks in the top 200. Here are my main issues with the album...David can sing but his voice just doesn't do a thing for me. It's pretty emotionless really. I much perfer a voice like the guy from The Script that has some character to his voice. Having said that, I might find David's voice lifeless on these songs because the production is so horrible. Everything sounds fine but the whole album is so BORING. Carcadia sounded promising for the first minute (okay maybe there's some uniqueness here) and then this huge, overproduced and oversung chorus kicks in. And that same buzzkill happens on every one of these songs. It's a shame really as I think there may be a decent song or two hidden behind all the gloss. That's why I do think that if David's label will even spend the money to put the guy on tour behind these songs that they will probably play better live. In the live setting David is probably able to convey some emotion with his voice. I have always been a fan of the producer, Matt Serletic, and I was disappointed when the other members of MB20 (not Rob) ditched Matt. But I have to say that he didn't do David any favors here and I hope that he is not picked to produce the album they are working on (right now it looks like it may be self-produced). I actually know why this song was picked as the single. It actually stood out to me as I listened to the songs because it was the only one that seemed to have any energy to it. I've know that we have been saying that David would have done better if he had come out in the late 1990s or early 2000s when this type of music was still getting massive HotAC play and quite a bit of pop airplay but I have to disagree. I don't think these songs are even strong enough to have made much of an impact back then. And here's the career killer, David just doesn't have any charisma. I think that's hard to get around but then again, Lifehouse has maintained a really nice career for themselves over 10 years now and I think Jason Wade is extremely boring too so obviously not everyone agrees with me. I do wish David well and I hope that I am wrong and that these songs connect with people outside his fanbase. I wrote down a song or two that I kind of liked as I went through the album and I guess I would go with Paper Heart. It seemed to me that that song had the least amount of production smoke and mirrors applied to it. Fade Into Me might do decently on HotAC as well. Forget about any other formats with these songs. I don't even think anything will work really well on AC. It's like these songs are stuck in the middle of nowhere...not alternative at all, not really good rock, not pop.... I agree with a lot you said there. Firstly, I am a fan of David's voice. What made me disappointed with the album though, was precisely what you stated with regards to the production of the songs. I started off enjoying many of the tracks until as you stated "the overproduced and oversung chorus kicked in". That's why I prefer the debut album. The production wasn't as overbearing, and he had some songs on there that were fairly simple in their production, and as a result you could get the emotion/charisma that you were seeking. "Permanent" comes to mind as an excellent track whose strength comes in its simplicity and emotional depth. I feel like this album is severely lacking in those simpler tracks that can make a big impact on the listener. I also find Paper Heart to be one of my favorite songs because it isn't as overproduced as the other tracks. "Circadian" sounds amazing in the beginning and then he loses me as the chorus begins. I do disagree, however, with the statement that he is boring and lacks charisma. I see how this album could lead someone to believe such, but having seen him in concert and throughout enjoyed the first album, I don't think that is the case. That is why this album disappointed me most: it doesn't demonstrate the charisma and profound emotional depth I know Cook is capable of depicting in his material.
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slamina
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Post by slamina on Jun 27, 2011 3:17:09 GMT -5
Seems like the second will be "Take Me As I Am" according to one of the song's co-writers: twitter.com/#!/TheExies/status/85148884652920832 What do you guys think? Not one of my favorites from the album honestly. Will need to listen one more time to judge.
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greenlight
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Post by greenlight on Jun 27, 2011 8:22:55 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, Sesquipedalian. It's not one of my favorite either, but it seems that it is often named as one the stand out tracks by casual listeners. It has more character that TLG, it may work out on HAC.
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No Brake$
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Post by No Brake$ on Jun 27, 2011 9:20:05 GMT -5
David Cook and this album was promoted horribly, I feel bad for the guy. Unfortunately, the whole Hot AC market is dominated with "Tedder Tunes" and they rolled the dice with a OneRepublic B-Side that they gave up on. Be original. I also think Gavin DeGraw is going to suffer the same problem in the next month.
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Post by Feelin'.$$$hady on Jun 27, 2011 12:17:32 GMT -5
His promo was OK for an HAC artist, there was just absolutely zero reaction to it from the audience.
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trei1658
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Post by trei1658 on Jun 27, 2011 16:18:45 GMT -5
Radio Adds 6/27;
*KBEE-FM AC Salt Lake City #30 *WTIC-FM Hot AC Hartford #50 *WXLO-FM Hot AC Worcester, MA #110
* Auto Adds
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overboard
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Post by overboard on Jun 27, 2011 19:53:58 GMT -5
The rumor of the second single was started by one of the co-writers. Im pretty sure he was just plugging his song for people to buy on Tuesday so that he makes more $$$.
The promo for this album has been what should have been expected. I swear some people expect everyone to have Gaga-level of promo for their fav.
The only thing I can say that he missed out on was a Pop adds date for the single, but if HAC isn't latching onto this, Pop would never have.
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secretchef
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Post by secretchef on Jun 28, 2011 11:54:28 GMT -5
I think his promo has been really good. 2 Idol peformances (yeah I know one was the boot song), Ellen, Today Show, R&K, free download of the video on itunes, banners, Walmart Soundcheck, track by track on Billboard.com, VH1 interview. 'Fade into Me' was on 'So You Think You Can Dance' last week. That song is now #336 in itunes and 'The Last Goodbye' didn't budge after The Today Show this morning. The promo has been good, the song isn't resonating. Unless it's selling albums, but we won't know that until the numbers come out.
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Post by out of reach on Jun 28, 2011 12:12:55 GMT -5
I think he got enough promo to sell the album. Even though he was gone a little long I don't think it matters that much, he needed a strong single. I am very surprised they are still promoting the album with TLG.
Fade into me had one promo spot and it's rising on iTunes while TLG is still not in iTunes top 1000.
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fluffyb
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Post by fluffyb on Jun 28, 2011 22:42:22 GMT -5
I'm predicting the album will sell 45-50k in its first week.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jun 28, 2011 22:51:03 GMT -5
A quick scan of the reviews looks really good. I'm gonna need to check this out.
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