The state of R&B

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Brunos music simply isnt R&B. That is why Urban radio doesnt embrace it. JT has always made it known that he loves R&B music and has went to great lengths to do R&B records on his albums.

[Deleted]

Interesting that six months later, the biggest hit of the year may be a throwback R&B song. The two biggest crossover R&B hits of the year were by white men.

[Gold Soundz]

"Blurred Lines" cracked the door open for white male crossover acts that want to release insistent "party R&B" that's 120 BPM. Granted, it's a start for Pop radio. Releasing "Give It 2 U" as a follow up, though, is slamming the door shut. I don't dislike "Give It 2 U," and I can't blame him and his label for releasing it, but I really wish he had something just as catchy and slightly more R&B-leaning to keep the momentum going.

Honestly, hearing Ariana Grande's song on Pop radio was more reassuring for me. It may have only been a moderate hit, but it was nice to hear an Urban-leaning R&B jam in regular rotation again.

[Deleted]

Top selling album and single of the year are R&B... by white men.

[allow that]

I randomly went to check out Miguel's chart stats on Wikipedia earlier and noticed "How Many Drinks?" is a #24 hit on "US R&B." Seems accurate...

[Deleted]

Also worth nothing that with the exception of 5 weeks for Drake (who is half white) and 3 weeks at the beginning of the year for Rihanna (whose song wasn't a Top 10 Urban hit), the lead artist at the top of Billboard's R&B/Hip-Hop chart was white every other week in 2013.

Recently I thought this was the whitest mainstream radio had been since the early 80s, but even then, you had Michael, Lionel, Diana... Now it's Rihanna (with straight up pop songs). We'll see if they welcome Beyoncé back.

[dbhmr]

Jan 2, 2014 19:51:14 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Top selling album and single of the year are R&B... by white men.

How often is that the case? I genuinely have no idea, so I'm wondering if this is: a) a problem, b) a breakthrough, or c) not of any real importance/a coincidence.

ETA: Just saw your next post. Guess it's looking like a problem.

[Deleted]

Jan 2, 2014 20:00:12 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

Jan 2, 2014 19:51:14 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Top selling album and single of the year are R&B... by white men.

How often is that the case? I genuinely have no idea, so I'm wondering if this is: a) a problem, b) a breakthrough, or c) not of any real importance/a coincidence.

Pretty sure it's a first. There have been relatively few hugely successful white R&B acts. When Robin Thicke topped the R&B/Hip-Hop chart in 2007, he was the first white act to do it since 1992. Now black acts at the top of that chart are the exception due to Billboard changing the chart's methodology.

I find it a bit unsettling that white R&B acts literally had the biggest album and single of the year but black R&B acts have pretty much been shafted from CHR/Pop (Rihanna doesn't count because her recent hits were hardly R&B). Beyoncé should help turn this around with the way her album is selling, but even then, she's only one act.

[think pink.]

“It’s called rhythm and blues; they just took the blues out of it for so long. What’s crazy is that blacks can’t do soul records any more. We love Adele singing it, but Beyoncé singing it? No.” - The Dream

[Verisimilitude]

Jan 2, 2014 22:02:40 GMT -5 think pink. said:

“It’s called rhythm and blues; they just took the blues out of it for so long. What’s crazy is that blacks can’t do soul records any more. We love Adele singing it, but Beyoncé singing it? No.” - The Dream

"Love On Top" though...

[Deleted]

Jan 2, 2014 22:08:40 GMT -5 Verisimilitude said:

Jan 2, 2014 22:02:40 GMT -5 think pink. said:

“It’s called rhythm and blues; they just took the blues out of it for so long. What’s crazy is that blacks can’t do soul records any more. We love Adele singing it, but Beyoncé singing it? No.” - The Dream

"Love On Top" though...

...which wasn't a hit outside Urban/Urban AC.

[.indulgecountry]

On a semi-related note, a black man had the top selling country music single of 2013.

[Deleted]

On another related note... what's the second best selling album of 2013? A rap album... by a white man.

[musicjunky318]

R&B died in the 90s.

[allow that]

Jan 2, 2014 23:39:12 GMT -5 musicjunky318 said:

R&B died in the 90s.

Ashanti killed real R&B shortly after the new decade began and then Billboard whitewashed the ashes last year.

[Deleted]

According to Billboard, R&B/Rap was the only genre (they consider it the same thing) to increase in sales from 2012.

[sundaymorningguy]

Well, I also find it of note that their haven't been any significant new producers of just strictly R&B based music. All the new producers coming up all seemed to be focused on crossing over and not really catering to any market. I think the good producers make the music they want, and hope that the music they want to make crosses over. Rather than once they get that crossover hit, letting their production go to crap chasing that crossover success. I think once you have producers kind of scaling back and trying to excel and improve their genres rather than trying for that super smash crossover hit, then you will see a return to form for R&B.

[#LisaRinna]

A mess.com. Thanks so much Billboard!

[Deleted]

allow that posted this article from Spin on the whitewashing of radio a few weeks ago in the "Royals" thread in the Urban forum for those who missed it. Great article.

Tracking the Problematic Path of Lorde's 'Royals' to Rap and R&B Radio
Song becomes an unexpected urban playlist hit with help from good ol' radio whitewashing

A telling bumper occasionally pops up on our No. 1 radio home for hip-hop and R&B here in Baltimore. It identifies the station and then proudly announces that the playlist features "all shades of R&B." Usually, that's followed by Justin Timberlake's Mike Jack pastiche "Take Back the Night," or Robin Thicke's Pharrell and T.I.-assisted Marvin Gaye and/or Funkadelic mash-up "Blurred Lines." The inclusion of these crooning white boys on the station isn't new, but the decision for black radio, yes black radio, to advertise that it isn't segregated gives off some Twilight Zone vibes, you know? This is "urban" radio in a supposed post-racial America – where black-music outlets, the only interesting or at all rarefied stations left in this hyper-homogenous and bottom-line-desperate music industry, go out of their way to remind you that, "Hey, we'd never deny those poor, unfortunate, white R&B-ers the same opportunities as black artists."

The start of last month marked the tenth anniversary of the last time the top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100 consisted entirely of black artists. That October 11, 2003 chart included Beyonce, Nelly, Lil Jon, Chingy, Pharrell, Young Bloodz, 50 Cent, Fabolous, Ludacris, and the Black Eyed Peas. In 2013, that same week's chart looked like this: Lorde, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, Avicii, Jay Z, Robin Thicke, Ylvis, Lady Gaga, and Lana Del Ray. In-the-pocket, young-gun rappers or R&B-ers like Rich Homie Quan or August Alsina (the 2013 equivalent of a Youngbloodz), or hell, even Kendrick Lamar, a rap superstar but far from a pop superstar, are now restricted to urban radio formats. Quite simply, pop skews much whiter in 2013 than it did in 2003. In part, this is because pop is more fusion-friendly than ever, and the result of that, again and again, is that rap spices up white pop, full stop. At the very moment when rap has been fully absorbed by the mainstream, the mainstream is doing away with the people who brought rap into the mix.

The most recent, loaded example of rap and R&B stations conceding to the music industry's whitewashing is their embrace of Lorde's "Royals." The New Zealand teen's massive hit has some of the electro-buzzing murk of Drake or the Weeknd and drifts at the same BPM as plenty of syrup-afflicted radio R&B, so it isn't an out-of-nowhere inclusion. And "Royals" was first introduced to urban radio thanks to a Weeknd remix, and then by way of a Rick Ross verse added to the song. Unfortunately, urban radio embraced "Royals" despite the fact that Lorde's critique of born-with-this wealth quickly devolved into a crude and offensive stereotyping of hip-hop culture, as she came out against decade-old, rap-video signifiers like "gold teeth," "Cristal," and "Maybachs." In a sense, Lorde is singing about a trend – bling-friendly hip-pop – that doesn't penetrate the mainstream all that much anymore, but was at the center of pop radio a decade ago. There's a rubbing-your-face-in-it quality to the song, and along with Macklemore's “Thrift Shop,” it marks the second time this year that a white pop song has appeared on hip-hop radio while framing its anti-materialism message around a critique of hip-hop signifiers. At best, these songs are clueless, and with a little benefit of the doubt they are um, accidentally racist. Coupled with the whitening of the pop landscape, and the twisted "Why ain't there no White History Month"-style logic that black radio stations seem to be employing, Macklemore and Lorde have managed to invade rap and R&B playlists while simultaneously lecturing black artists.

In a more balanced climate, the appearance of "Royals" on rap and R&B radio might be a fun little anomaly. Its placement makes some sense, not unlike the rhythmic rock that has earned club play over the years (see SPIN's 'Inorganic at the Disco' list), or the more-rare-but-not-unprecedented example of Jay Z's "99 Problems" which entered alt-rock radio playlists because it had rock'n'roll drums and guitars. "Royals" is an okay piece of arena-oriented indie pop, interesting and, woah, a little weird if your listening habits are entry-level (file it next to Foster the People or Gotye or Lana Del Rey). Since it's a little more patient and woozy than the sugar-rush EDM kicking your eardrums around during the rest of the radio hour, it can pass as R&B. However, those "Royals" remixes with the Weeknd and Ross, roundly forgotten once they justified the song's urban-radio existence, speak to the way that rapping and R&B-inflected crooning have become nothing more than disposable accoutrements in 2013...even on rap and R&B radio. I guess it was just time that we gave all those disadvantaged white artists a fair shot, though, right?

www.spin.com/articles/lorde-royals-rap-radio-urban-macklemore-thrift-shop/

[#LisaRinna]

Jan 2, 2014 19:56:08 GMT -5 allow that said:

I randomly went to check out Miguel's chart stats on Wikipedia earlier and noticed "How Many Drinks?" is a #24 hit on "US R&B." Seems accurate...

Yeah so accurate! A top 3 hit at Urban radio that can't even crack the top 20 of the genre chart

[velaxti]

It's a very strange situation we've had in 2013, but it's been fascinating to follow. As an R&B and hip hop fan, I think what has happened this year has been VERY promising for the genres. Think of the state we were in during 2011/early 2012. Things have changed so much in such a short amount of time.

Firstly, I want to say that I don't think Billboard's changes to the genre charts are to blame, at all. At the worst all they do is make some of the urban hits seem like they weren't that big when people go on Wikipedia to check their chart positions in future years. Urban DJs don't really use the R&B/Hip hop songs chart (anymore). They probably check the airplay chart to see what other DJs are playing, but that's probably about it. For example Can't Hold Us reached #1 on the Songs chart, but only reached #45 on R&B/hip hop airplay chart, whilst Royals, which wasn't included got to #4 on the mediabase chart. My point is, Billboard's change might mean that some of the big urban hits get less recognition, but I think it's having minimal success on how big they actually are. For example, I don't think How Many Drinks would have done any better if the R&B/Hip Hop chart was only airplay.

If anything, I think Billboard's recent chart changes have actually helped urban music. Including On-Demand streaming helped urban songs a lot back in 2012. Songs like Rack City, The Motto, ***I'M RACIST***s in Paris, Mercy, Fuckin Problems all charted a lot higher than they would have done thanks to On-Demand Streaming. Then Youtube streaming helped even more. R&B/hip hop songs like Body Party, UOENO, Harlem Shake, 23, Gas Pedal, Bubble Butt, Don't Drop That Thun Thun, My ***I'M RACIST***, and most recently Turn Down For What and Drunk In Love have benefitted hugely from this! Stared From the Bottom, Fuckin Problems and Love Me would probably have never got top 10 without streaming.

Now onto pop radio. It's become a lot more like rhythmic radio this year, which I think is definitely a good thing! If you played be Thrift Shop or Blurred Lines a couple of years ago, and said they would be massive pop radio hits, I would have never believed it! I am so happy for these songs success, it really is incredible. It's not just those two songs, there's more of these "rhythmic" songs: The Way, Treasure, Get Lucky, Mirrors, Suit & Tie, Can't Hold Us, We Can't Stop, Same Love, Royals, The Monster, Dark Horse and others.

Which brings me onto my next observation: Most of these artists are white. The majority of artists that do "rhythmic" music are black, so this is very peculiar to be honest. Obviously, when it's a few songs I don't think much of it (after all, there were Gwen Stefani, Justin Timberlake, Nelly Furtado, Fergie, etc. in the mid-00s doing this sort of music, but black artists were still having success with the same kind of music alongside them), but this year it's been practically all white. I'm honestly not sure what conclusion to draw from this.

Do the mainstream audience not like this kind of music from black people anymore? I think perhaps due to the events of the past few years, some of them only accept euro-dance music from black singers now...

I was very upset with the way Nicki's 2012 album was managed, because she and her fans made such a huge fuss of "This song for the pop fans", "This song for the urban fans", such a mess. She was pretty much the most hyped artist in 2012, all over the media, and she goes around telling the mainstream audience that urban music isn't for them. Makes me angry, it should be for everybody. I was very happy to see Justin Timberlake, Robin Thicke, Ariana Grande take the complete opposite approach this year. They embraced the fact that their songs were from R&B/soul. In interviews they were always saying that, which is great. Millions of people love Blurred Lines, and I'm glad that Robin took every opportunity he could to say what genre the song is. All these people need to know that what they've been listening to this year, and to look for more songs like these. Pop radio DJs need to know that some of their most successful songs this year have been R&B, so I'm glad that people like Justin and Robin have been driving this point home very well. Eventually these pop DJs will have to realize that Miguel has songs similar to them. Might take a while, but it must happen eventually.

Could a black artist have had an urban song do well on pop radio this year? I think yes. #1 urban hits Holy Grail and Hold On We're Going Home went top 10 on pop radio (no songs went top 10 on both formats at all in 2012). Had Pour It Up gone for pop adds, and had a music video out at the right time, I think it could have at least gone top 20 on pop radio, and top 10 on the Hot 100. I hope with her next album she really tries for a big crossover hit, because if anybody is capable, it's her.

There are some black artists that I think are popular with the mainstream audience. Everybody seems to love Pharrell at the moment, thanks to his recent hit features. I really think Happy could do well off the back of those. Also Beyonce seems liked by the mainstream audience, and it's slightly surreal to see Drunk in Love doing better than XO so far. Nicki Minaj is, kind of. She needs to release a crossover hit like Moment 4 Life again, if she wants to help hip hop out right now.

Talk Dirty by Jason Derulo is a song to look out for. He's established with pop listeners, but the song is urban, and both the artists are black, but it's also very catchy. It would be even more promising if the song did well on pop radio.

Overall, as a fan of this music, I'm very happy with how 2013 went. The white dominance is weird, but I don't think it'll continue much longer, and I really do think it'll help out black artists in the long run. I'm not very concerned anyway, since it's the style of music that I like first and foremost. At least this style of music is back on the radio! I'd much rather Thrift Shop and Blurred Lines dominating than Pound the Alarm and Break Your Heart dominating.

[sundaymorningguy]

I think that artists/labels need to start taking chances. I also think the reason why white artists might fair better on urban leaning formats is because the record labels say why not send it there and see what it can do. I don't think black artists are accustomed to thinking well let me send this to the pop format which is a shame. If I was an artist, I would send my single to as many formats as I thought would work regardless of whether I think it is more suited to one format because you never know what might hit. If you want R&B to get more of an audience, you have to be willing to try and go after the audience. Can't kind of hodge podge and be like well I don't know if this will work. It would also kind of help maybe if Urban leaning artists were a bit more stingy with their appearances on pop hits to kind of lead to a more streamlining of the genres and get R&B radio back to prominence.

[Rican@]

It's not the artists, it's the radio stations. R&B was going through a phrase where it will received play on the urban station and now that is a task in itself. Some labels have even given up on sending songs to urban stations and just keep them at the urban AC format. There isn't any smart or tactic method if the core format has no interest in R&B songs. Oddly enough when Pop used to play R&B songs, album sales were much higher overall so with the killing of one genre, there is a missing market that leading to quicker decline in album sales, IMO. Pop needs a new focus, IMO because it has catered too much to a specific group with its playlists.

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2014 20:27:20 GMT -5 Rican@ said:

It's not the artists, it's the radio stations. R&B was going through a phrase where it will received play on the urban station and now that is a task in itself. Some labels have even given up on sending songs to urban stations and just keep them at the urban AC format. There isn't any smart or tactic method if the core format has no interest in R&B songs. Oddly enough when Pop used to play R&B songs, album sales were much higher overall so with the killing of one genre, there is a missing market that leading to quicker decline in album sales, IMO. Pop needs a new focus, IMO because it has catered too much to a specific group with its playlists.

The problem is that CHR/Pop radio stations actually ended up with their highest ratings in years after whitewashing their playlists. The unsettling reality is that songs like "Blurred Lines" and acts like Justin Timberlake are some of the most successful music out there now, yet those stations are treating R&B music by actual black acts like the plague. Like I said earlier, it's similar to the resistance to black acts in the early 80s after the disco backlash, except it's even worse now.

[musicjunky318]

Forget the 80s it's been going on since the 50s.

Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley...but Elvis was the one that became King. Not a knock on Presley, I'm a huge fan, and he had the talent to back it up but he also had privilege.

What's going on with the Justin T., Robin Thicke crowd is nothing new. History often repeats itself.

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2014 21:07:30 GMT -5 musicjunky318 said:

Forget the 80s it's been going on since the 50s.

Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley...but Elvis was the one that became King. Not a knock on Presley, I'm a huge fan, and he had the talent to back it up but he also had privilege.

What's going on with the Justin T., Robin Thicke crowd is nothing new. History often repeats itself.

Absolutely. It just hasn't been this bad since the 80s.

[Rican@]

I remember a history teacher back in high school telling the story of Elvis and his popularity in which several people once they heard him on the radio, they thought he was black. I find that quite interesting because when I heard him, I never imagine a black man. I guess the same could be said about Adele and how she is widely appealed due to her race. Nothing to say she is not talented but we have had a fair share of black artists that release great records and do not experience the same success.

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2014 21:38:17 GMT -5 Rican@ said:

I remember a history teacher back in high school telling the story of Elvis and his popularity in which several people once they heard him on the radio, they thought he was black. I find that quite interesting because when I heard him, I never imagine a black man. I guess the same could be said about Adele and how she is widely appealed due to her race. Nothing to say she is not talented but we have had a fair share of black artists that release great records and do not experience the same success.

Same with Eminem.

The difference now is that it's not like R&B/hip-hop is doing well for black and white acts. Last decade, Eminem was obliterating the competition, but black acts were still doing well. White privilege was as apparent as ever, but radio wasn't completely whitewashed like it is now.

[think pink.]

Lord Jamar Says White People Gravitate To White Artists "Doing Black Music"

Lord Jamar calls Miley Cyrus a "white Rihanna," says Miley's "whiteness will propel her even further than Rihanna."

In a recent interview with Vlad TV, Brand Nubian rapper Lord Jamar briefly circled back to the topics discussed in his September 2013 interview with the website. In his September interview, the New York lyricist declared that white rappers “are guests in the house of Hip Hop” and in his most recent interview with Vlad TV, the New York emcee stated that that comment also goes for Eminem.

In addition to labeling Eminem a guest in Hip Hop, Jamar shared his belief that white artists need a co-sign from a black person in order to be successful in black music. Among the artists Jamar says received a co-sign are the Beastie Boys, Justin Timberlake, and Eminem. He also suggested that Vanilla Ice’s lack of a co-sign is the reason why the rapper wasn’t successful.

“If this is not black music then how come every white artist needs a co-sign from a black person? Beastie Boys had the co-sign from Run DMC,” Jamar said. “Eminem had the co-sign from Dr. Dre. Vanilla Ice didn’t have a co-sign. That’s why he didn’t fuckin last. Macklemore, see I don’t know who his co-sign is. Now he might be an exception to the rule, but I don’t know who his co-sign is. But at the same time, black peoples not really fucking with Macklemore like that.”

Prior to sharing his thoughts on co-signs, Lord Jamar offered his opinion on Miley Cyrus and revealed that the singer is trying to be a “white Rihanna.” He also stated that since Miley is white she’ll likely be more successful than Rihanna.

“She’s doing historically what a lot of artists have done,” he said. “You know what I mean? The ones that go for the shock value. But she’s also trying to pull from black music. Like to me, she’s trying to be the white Rihanna. She’s just pushing a little further. I mean, listen to her music. Listen to the way it sounds. The way she’s singing. Like she’s trying to sound like Rihanna right now. Like let’s keep it real. She cut her hair short trying to look like Rihanna. You dig what I’m saying? But she knows that that whiteness will propel her even further than Rihanna. Because in a country where white people are the majority, that’s what they want to see.”

Detroit wordsmith Eminem was later brought up during Jamar’s conversation on white artists and black music and was subsequently labeled a “guest in the house of Hip Hop.”

“Just like in Eminem. We had a lot of people talking about ‘Is Eminem a guest in the house of Hip Hop?’ You’re mothafuckin right he is,” Jamar said. “Just cause he sold the most records and all of that like…I fucks with Eminem, you know, as a lyricist and all of that, but it’s like we are in America. Okay? Where the majority of the people are white. Now the majority of the people in the world are not white. But here in America they’re white. So, when you have a white artist doing black music, white people just gravitate to that crazily. You know what I mean? But sales doesn’t equate to greatness.”

[#LisaRinna]

Jan 2, 2014 19:51:14 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Top selling album and single of the year are R&B... by white men.

You know what upsets me the most about this though? JT having the biggest "R&B Album" of the year. Was his album R&B though?
I listened to it and it was a Pop record just like all of his stuff. So now because he had a few influences and a few tweaks and features all of a sudden he's put out a R&B record. PLEASE!

'Blurred Lines' at least was a legitimate R&B hit, played by both Urban and Urban AC radio and was released by an artist who has been legitimately put out R&B music throughout.