The state of R&B

[Deleted]

Oct 21, 2012 17:46:18 GMT -5 @chocolatethunder said:

A perfect example is Anytime You Need A Friend which effortlessly was pop, r&B and rooted in gospel without even trying, that's the magic of 90's Mariah and why to this day she is respected across genres and i say she has her Stan's of course but also has one of the most passive pool of fans to draw support from with the right material.

"Anytime You Need A Friend" only peaked at #30 on the R&B Airplay chart though. ;)

[chocolatethunder]

It was unappreciated overall IMO but the influences in those fields can be heard on the record .....90's R&B will never be topped however I need a new wave of sound that is rooted in R&B to come along instead of the formula used now.

[Rican@]

Oct 21, 2012 17:56:13 GMT -5 @chocolatethunder said:

90's R&B will never be topped however I need a new wave of sound that is rooted in R&B to come along instead of the formula used now.

70s and 80s R&B beg to differ ;)

[chocolatethunder]

^ My bad i should have said 70's and 90's R&B can never be topped, i can take or leave 80's it was a mix of cringe worthy material and classic material.

[jdanton2]

one thing that has hurt R&B at Pop radio and overall is itunes. in the 90's during the early years of Soundscan R&B singles were big sellers .even the ones that did not get much Pop play . though by the time itunes came along most R&B songs like most others were not available in stores . R&B fans seem to buy albums now with many able to debut in the top 10 without airplay at Pop radio.

[Rican@]

I agree. ITunes is quite Pop driven which is a disadvantage for most R&B artists. I actually think the reason why R&B suffers so much because it doesn't have a young crowd like other genres. I think this generation doesn't have the same interest in traditional R&B due to hip-hop/rap being so dominated on the format. Urban radio is partially blame for the lack of success of traditional R&B because it is not pushing for it to be played. That why a top urban artist such as Alicia Keys is being forced to tack a rapper on to her single to her core format. I still think labels need to be more creative with marketing urban artists without jeopardying the sound.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Oct 21, 2012 16:02:10 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Oct 21, 2012 15:43:26 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

There has to be a balance of artistry and some consideration for the wants of the listeners.

Exactly. I like my balance one way. The record execs (and you) like the balance a different way. I don't see what there really is to argue. For me, the balance has shifted more and more away from artistic integrity and toward what it takes to score an easy hit. Meanwhile, these easy hits aren't really selling albums. Now it's getting to the point where other genres are being forced to move closer and closer to the trends of Top 40 radio to even compete on their own formats. When labels find the right balance with an artist like Adele who has both artistic integrity and widespread appeal, look what happens. She sold 10 million copies of her album in the past couple of years when many big artists are struggling to even sell 1 million.

People don't make and sell music simply so it cant be heard or enjoyed by anyone else. By definition these artists are going to labels because they want to make money from their music. If money is not the incentive then they should release their material for free. I love R&B music but its basically been stale for years now. The genre has stopped evolving and thats why no one has been downloading the records. The R&B songs people like are ones that are creative and utilize elements in other genres to enhance or innovate the sounds of R&B...what Im afraid may be happening is that R&B may be going into a gradual but almost semi-permanent state of decline in terms of the publics interest in it much like rock music has been doing over the last 20 years....because the fans of R&B wont allow the genre to grow and evolve.

[chocolatethunder]

I'm confused because your being vague, just to be clear are you saying that R&B artists should move towards Scream /Starships and dance/pop direction, or are you saying you want to see a fresh new sound that is rooted in R&B? I cant figure out if you just want everyone to go pop. As a fan i could care less if my artist was making dough or not as long as they released good music, and not naive clearly R&b singers want to make money but there are alot that have refused to go the easy route and decided to stick to the format they love even if its a sinking ship, more singers have artistic integrity than you think.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Oct 21, 2012 18:35:44 GMT -5 Rican@ said:

I still think labels need to be more creative with marketing urban artists without jeopardying the sound.

On the marketing side of things Urban artists and labels have simply refused to release their material for pop radio airplay. I think a large part of this is the result of one company owning so much of the radio stations. The labels and artists aren't blameless. At least send your record to the format and let that format decide on its own how much airplay is warranted. This is partly the result of R&B listeners getting all bent out of shape when an artist gets some shine from pop radio even if its with a purely R&B song.

I don't think its simply a marketing problem. While marketing is a part of it, its not the only problem. Currently R&B has a music problem. Much of the R&B has a been there and done that feel and artists especially those with talent simply refuse to bring anything more to the table thats new, novel or experimental for the genre.

I would like to see Billboard move away from radio airplay as a measure of popularity and at the very least diminish its presence on the charts. Many times whats being played on the radio isnt an accurate representation of what people are buying and listening to. Its the subject of radio station politics and other nonsense...Id rather songs chart based on what people like and we have information now.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Oct 21, 2012 23:10:25 GMT -5 @chocolatethunder said:

I'm confused because your being vague, just to be clear are you saying that R&B artists should move towards Scream /Starships and dance/pop direction, or are you saying you want to see a fresh new sound that is rooted in R&B? I cant figure out if you just want everyone to go pop. As a fan i could care less if my artist was making dough or not as long as they released good music, and not naive clearly R&b singers want to make money but there are alot that have refused to go the easy route and decided to stick to the format they love even if its a sinking ship, more singers have artistic integrity than you think.

I'm saying the later. Fresh new sounds that are rooted in R&B.

[Rican@]

The sound of R&B, IMO, isn't the issue. We have artists like Miguel, Elle Varner and Frank Ocean who are pushing the genre in a good direction while keeping the sound as their platform especially the formers. So why aren't they experiencing great success? I mean, Frank Ocean has buzz but his sales should be higher if he was given airplay on Pop. So it comes down to marketing these artists to the masses but creative. Just like how dance music was shoved down our throats, the same will need to occur in this genre for our artists to move units.

I do feel with some of our urban artists who choose to record pop tracks that it hurts urban artists' chances to get pure R&B played on Pop. DJs would see it as what's the purpose when there are artists in that genre who willing to record material that is played constant on that format instead of changing up the format.

[braveheart]

Ashanti needs to come back and snatch some lacefronts from Bey :) lol

[chocolatethunder]

^ Im sure Bey would donate it to her if she just asked

[Deleted]

Justin is bringing R&B back!

But on a serious note, if Justin's song becomes a big hit at CHR/Pop, I can see them opening up to some other R&B songs too/other artists recording sophisticated R&B tracks.

[#LisaRinna]

If this is what takes to bring R&B back, I'd rather it stays where it is and we wait for a natural process of re-appreciation.

I'd rather wait for someone more interesting like Miguel to finally crossover in full.

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2013 14:52:26 GMT -5 #LisaRinna said:

I'd rather wait for someone more interesting like Miguel to finally crossover in full.

You may be waiting forever.

[Deleted]

Diamonds is still the #1 R&B song after 3 months so I think the future of R&B is going to be all Rihanna songs.

[#LisaRinna]

Jan 14, 2013 14:53:02 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Jan 14, 2013 14:52:26 GMT -5 #LisaRinna said:

I'd rather wait for someone more interesting like Miguel to finally crossover in full.

You may be waiting forever.

At least the music would still be interesting lol.

Plus, I am convinced Beysus will seal that deal soon. The true saviour is ready to come. ;)

[Deleted]

I'm not saying the return of R&B would be a bunch of "Suit & Tie" clones. Just that one major R&B hit back on pop radio may make them more open to playing other R&B, including artists like Miguel. Although Miguel's label doesn't seem too interested in pushing him there anyway. "Adorn" got to #34 without an adds date, and they never ended up giving it one. Maybe labels would change their mind if there actual was a major R&B hit at pop radio.

[#LisaRinna]

Jan 14, 2013 15:08:34 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

I'm not saying the return of R&B would be a bunch of "Suit & Tie" clones. Just that one major R&B hit back on pop radio may make them more open to playing other R&B, including artists like Miguel. Although Miguel's label doesn't seem too interested in pushing him there anyway. "Adorn" got to #34 without an adds date, and they never ended up giving it one. Maybe labels would change their mind if there actual was a major R&B hit at pop radio.

I completely get what you mean and I agree with it. My hope is just that Justin's track was a little more interesting if it's going to be the breakthrough of an entire genre back into the CHR playlists.

And I don't think 'Suit & Tie' is trash, because it isn't. At all. It just feels underwhelming and lacking that extra something I expected him to bring.
I may adore it in a few days though, so I can't be 100% sure.

[josh]

(just part of this article)

Jan 14, 2013 16:29:44 GMT -5 @2m said:

RADIO: 'SUIT' FITS

A sampling of radio programmers shows almost consensus early approval for "Suit."

"Over the years, we've come to expect the unexpected with Justin's music, which I think is fantastic," Mainstream Top 40 panelist WHTZ New York program director Sharon Dastur says. "'Suit & Tie' doesn't sound like anything else out in pop music right now and we can certainly use those kinds of songs. For some people, it'll be a slow build, while others love it after the first listen, including myself. We welcome Justin back with open arms."

"I love it," Mainstream Top 40 reporter KIIS Los Angeles assistant PD Julie Pilat concurs. "Just like Justin brought Pharrell and Timbaland's beats to the mainstream in 2002, R&B has been having a huge resurgence in the underground with Frank Ocean, the Weeknd and Miguel. I think Justin will bring that movement to the mainstream in 2013. I couldn't be more excited that he's back and from the look of social media posts and hallway chatter, many fans are feeling the same way."

Clearly, female PDs are factoring the appeal of Timberlake to fellow women, who aren't likely to complain that Timberlake (even as a newlywed, to Jessica Biel) has brought his sexy self back.

"What woman over the age of 25 doesn't love Justin Timberlake?" asks Charese Fruge, PD of Adult Top 40 panelist KMXB Las Vegas. "As for whether this song is a long-term hit? I guess we'll find out."

"I think 'Suit & Tie' is very different and I feared that his time away from the music industry would produce an out-of-touch single, like Mariah Carey's last year ['Triumphant (Get 'Em)," which stalled at No. 53 on R&B/Hip-Hop Songs]," Pattie Moreno, PD of Mainstream Top 40 reporter KHHM Sacramento, Calif., says. "However, he managed to bring a very sexy record to the table. Jay-Z adds grown-man credibility and Timberlake's R&B touch and Robin Thicke-esque vocals add a smooth edge.

"I do believe this record is a hit, and his social media tease with a website countdown to today before the launch was genius. Good job, Justin. Show them youngsters like Justin Bieber what being a pop artist is all about!"

Male PDs likewise value the 'event' status that Timberlake provides. "Anytime a huge artist releases a song, the audience expects to hear it on their local contemporary pop station," says Chase Murphy, PD of Mainstream Top 40 contributor KXXM San Antonio, Texas. "In this case, Timberlake hadn't dropped single in more than five years, so there's at least a curiosity with both the audience and the radio community. We're expected to expose the audience to ('Suit'). It's what we do.

"Personally, I like it and think it will be a hit. I think it's different and might be a sign of the times on where the format and texture of music is headed," Murphy muses. "It serves as a relief from a lot of the adult, folk-rock sounds that seem to be gaining a lot of momentum." That, says Murphy, is a good thing. "The format flourishes when we have many different styles from which to choose."

Of PDs contacted by Billboard today, only the gatekeepers at Mainstream Top 40 panelist WBBM Chicago seem more than slightly concerned about the viability of "Suit" at the format. Even then, they feel that the song will ultimately be embraced. Seemingly worth remembering: a similar consensus reticence accompanied "SexyBack," which many programmers and fans deemed jarring before similar-sounding songs by the Black Eyed Peas arrived and the EDM movement blossomed. "(Suit) doesn't seem to be creating a ton of chatter with our listeners as of yet," says PD Todd Cavanah. "Still, it's Justin Timberlake. I would not bet against him. We'll let the audience decide."

"Suit" is generating "somewhat mixed opinions thus far," adds WBBM assistant PD/music director Erik Bradley. "I'd say it's 50/50. But, it's No. 1 on iTunes and still trending on Twitter. It's definitely going to get the chance to prove itself. Personally, I liked it after the first listen, liked it even more after the second and, once I heard it on the radio, I totally loved it. It's Justin and he typically comes with game-changing lead singles, so I'd expect the same in this case."

Clearly, the start of "Suit" could be just the start of pop radio's potentially strong bond with "The 20/20 Experience."

"Simply put, don't doubt JT," says Dylan Sprague, PD of Mainstream Top 40 reporter WXKS and Rhythmic panelist WJMN Boston. "He is always doing something different; in this case, an update on past R&B."

Keep checking Billboard.biz and follow billboard on Twitter for updates on the speedy start for "Suit" at radio and retail.

[🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾]

I agree with most of what was said in the article that Josh quoted. It would be nice to have some variety. As much as I love Dance music, the kind that is on radio now is just so samey and generic. R&B is something that hasn't dominated in a while or at least had representation outside of the formats that support it.

As an aside, I disagree with this line, "It serves as a relief from a lot of the adult, folk-rock sounds that seem to be gaining a lot of momentum." Have there really been that many other than Gotye, Fun, Philip Phillips, and Ed Sheeran?

[Deleted]

"I love it," Mainstream Top 40 reporter KIIS Los Angeles assistant PD Julie Pilat concurs. "Just like Justin brought Pharrell and Timbaland's beats to the mainstream in 2002, R&B has been having a huge resurgence in the underground with Frank Ocean, the Weeknd and Miguel. I think Justin will bring that movement to the mainstream in 2013.

This is exactly what I'm saying. Acts like Frank Ocean, The Weeknd, and Miguel have re-ignited interest in R&B music, but it's going to take someone like Justin (who pop radio isn't going to ignore regardless of what genre of music he is releasing) to break down the gates for the genre again in order to allow acts like the aforementioned to really be able to succeed there.

[musicjunky318]

^So Justin is the new Elvis?

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2013 17:24:28 GMT -5 musicjunky318 said:

^So Justin is the new Elvis?

Hardly. I don't really see the comparison at all. It's much easier for someone who is an established artist and has the kind of hype Justin has behind this project to influence the sound of a radio format and the type of music programmers (and eventually listeners) are comfortable with. Pop programmers are not ready to fully embrace R&B newcomers like Frank, Miguel, and The Weeknd, (although we are seeing some interest) but they'd be more likely to embrace them (and other similar artists) if someone like Justin came along and had a major R&B hit. There are way more racial issues tied to the whole Elvis situation than there really are tied to this current situation. Most of the major black R&B artists have either fallen out of favor because they're so strongly tied to R&B and continue to release music that pop radio has moved away from or have been pandering to pop radio with dance music to the point that when they do release something R&B pop radio rejects it until they release something dance-pop oriented. Pop radio is not going to ignore anything Justin Timberlake is coming out with at this point. I just don't think there is any superstar in a better position to score a hit with an R&B song at pop radio right now than Justin Timberlake. It just so happens that he's white.

[hidizzyguy]

I think Bruno Mars can.

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2013 18:38:12 GMT -5 hidizzyguy said:

I think Bruno Mars can.

He's not really R&B though. ???

He's had some songs that could have probably done alright at Urban ("Liquor Store Blues"/"Show Me"), but they have yet to send his songs there.

[hidizzyguy]

Right...but, neither was Justin when he first came out.

Then he started to cross-over...and even made a couple of songs that catered to that genre pretty easily.

Bruno Mars could take a similar route. He's that big right now.

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2013 19:07:01 GMT -5 hidizzyguy said:

Right...but, neither was Justin when he first came out.

Then he started to cross-over...and even made a couple of songs that catered to that genre pretty easily.

Bruno Mars could take a similar route. He's that big right now.

Justin charted on the R&B chart with 3 of the 4 pop singles from Justified and an additional single that was sent solely to Urban AC. One of them was a fairly decent sized hit too. Bruno has had one song hit the R&B chart and it hit the very bottom of the chart. Justin has always been pushed as an R&B-leaning artist to an extent. Bruno hasn't. I don't have doubts that Bruno could have an R&B hit but not the way he's currently being promoted.

[hidizzyguy]

Yeah, but Justin wasn't really PUSHING to be an R&B type of artist, he just think he's a white boy with urban cred. I mean his album still won mostly Male Pop awards.

I feel even though Bruno is mostly pop exposed, he FEELS like more of an R&B leaning artist than Justin and more than his promo defines. You look at how he performs, and how he chooses to PRESENT his music. I mean, his first album had doo-wop in the title.

I'm not sure why his label is making him SO POP.

Maybe they feel he needs to dominate that genre before they let him cross over. Who knows.

Maybe his label thinks he's more like a Michael Jackson. I'd prefer if they treat him like a male Beyonce. lol