badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Mar 19, 2013 21:51:18 GMT -5
1995-2004 was a "lost decade" for the Hot 100. The years before that were all "lost" too because they didn't include all radio formats. You could certainly argue that songs that didn't neatly fit the concept of "top 40" were unfairly disadvantaged, but it wasn't nearly the same as the tide shift in the mid-90s when record companies stopped selling many singles altogether, and you end up with huge massive songs that didn't even appear at all. Of course there have ALWAYS been exceptions outside of that 95-04 time period where popular songs either did not appear on the Hot 100 at all or peaked way lower than you would assume based on their popularity -- "Stairway to Heaven" is an early one that gets mentioned a lot, for example, and more recently you have songs like "All Summer Long." But for much of 95-04, it wasn't a rare exception for a song to either be missing from the Hot 100 or way underrepresented, it was pretty much the norm. Weirdly now it's the opposite happening (and even before "Harlem Shake" came along) where songs are now much more likely to get artificially high peaks due to countdown singles and random events causing huge temporary spikes. |
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jebsib
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Post by jebsib on Mar 19, 2013 22:09:42 GMT -5
When I worked in radio and asked at several conferences why the Hot 100 didn't include other radio formats prior to the 1990's, the answer was always the same; that the only format that mattered to labels was Top 40. All other formats were niche - even r&b, country and rock. That is, they were of some interest to Nashville and smaller urban communities, but were insignificant for the big National pop chart. This was of course before BDS revealed audience numbers, before CHR temporarily virtually disappeaed in the mid 90s, and before fractured radio formats like modern rock, rhythmic and country became powerhouses.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Mar 19, 2013 22:16:34 GMT -5
no airplay update today????????? HANSON - Get The Girl Back: 0.001 Oh my GOD smash hit coming!!!!! Sorry to interrupt an intelligent discussion-I just did a double take when I saw this. |
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velaxti
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Post by velaxti on Mar 19, 2013 22:36:00 GMT -5
Top 40 used to play pretty much all formats so including all formats really wasn't as necessary; especiallly in the 60's and even the 70's. Urban radio airplay wasn't even counted until the very late 90s, despite how well urban singles sold in the 90s. Mtume's "Juicy Fruit" went Platinum all the way back in 1983 without CHR/Pop airplay. People love to complain about the dominance of urban music on the Hot 100 back in the early 00s when singles weren't selling but they never say a thing about how urban singles were hindered on the Hot 100 when urban airplay wasn't taken into consideration. We kind of got a similar-ish situation today with streaming. Some songs like Fuckin' Problems, Love Me and Started From the Bottom are getting multiple weeks in the top 10 now, without any pop radio support, because they do well on streaming. I think it's good though. These songs ARE extremely popular with my age group, and I don't even live in the US, so I suspect they're even more popular there. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 22:43:00 GMT -5
Urban radio airplay wasn't even counted until the very late 90s, despite how well urban singles sold in the 90s. Mtume's "Juicy Fruit" went Platinum all the way back in 1983 without CHR/Pop airplay. People love to complain about the dominance of urban music on the Hot 100 back in the early 00s when singles weren't selling but they never say a thing about how urban singles were hindered on the Hot 100 when urban airplay wasn't taken into consideration. We kind of got a similar-ish situation today with streaming. Some songs like Fuckin' Problems, Love Me and Started From the Bottom are getting multiple weeks in the top 10 now, without any pop radio support, because they do well on streaming. I think it's good though. These songs ARE extremely popular with my age group, and I don't even live in the US, so I suspect they're even more popular there. How is it similar though? Those songs may not be getting major pop airplay, but the streaming and digital sales (in additional to the Urban airplay that does count now) are helping those songs to get high on the Hot 100 (showing that they are very popular despite the lack of major CHR/Pop airplay). |
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velaxti
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Post by velaxti on Mar 20, 2013 0:13:25 GMT -5
We kind of got a similar-ish situation today with streaming. Some songs like Fuckin' Problems, Love Me and Started From the Bottom are getting multiple weeks in the top 10 now, without any pop radio support, because they do well on streaming. I think it's good though. These songs ARE extremely popular with my age group, and I don't even live in the US, so I suspect they're even more popular there. How is it similar though? Those songs may not be getting major pop airplay, but the streaming and digital sales (in additional to the Urban airplay that does count now) are helping those songs to get high on the Hot 100 (showing that they are very popular despite the lack of major CHR/Pop airplay). I meant it's "similar-ish" because they're managing lengthy runs in the top 10 without pop support, which happened frequently back then, didn't it? But hasn't happened very much at all since I started following the Hot 100 a few years ago. Only a few I can think of like Look At Me Now, Rack City, etc. Some alternative-leaning songs initially got in the top 10 without much pop support, but pop radio usually jump on those in the end. Without streaming those songs would hopelessly be hovering around the #11-#40 region for months on end, maybe getting a sole debut week in the top 10 due to high first-week digital sales. Even last year before Youtube streaming was added we saw massive hits like Mercy and The Motto doing that, it was ridiculous. |
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Post by trumandare on Mar 20, 2013 7:19:51 GMT -5
wow hanson will have a great comeback 1,000 audience impressions  i was a fan of them as a child but as i know that they are a ''republican/conservative/christian'' band, i ignore them like most americans do # amy grant and ted nugent by the way are ignored too |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Mar 20, 2013 7:53:53 GMT -5
Top 40 used to play pretty much all formats so including all formats really wasn't as necessary; especiallly in the 60's and even the 70's. Urban radio airplay wasn't even counted until the very late 90s, despite how well urban singles sold in the 90s. Mtume's "Juicy Fruit" went Platinum all the way back in 1983 without CHR/Pop airplay. People love to complain about the dominance of urban music on the Hot 100 back in the early 00s when singles weren't selling but they never say a thing about how urban singles were hindered on the Hot 100 when urban airplay wasn't taken into consideration. The ironic thing is this dominance I keep reading about wouldn't have been possible if CHR/Top 40 didn't play those songs. If the situation were like it is now that Urban singles struggle at Pop radio, there wouldn't have been any dominance except for Pop music always being on top like it happens now. So I don't get why there is such a negativity feeling towards Urban music having some shine. The Urban music hey day of the early to mid-00s was caused by Pop radio's choice of playing those songs because the PDs wanted their ratings to remain high. Yet I don't see anyone commenting on basically 80/90% of the Hot 100 #1 hits being Dance Pop songs in the past 4 years. There is a double standard going on. Pop radio has always dictated the popularity of the various genres, essentially. |
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jebsib
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Post by jebsib on Mar 20, 2013 8:07:07 GMT -5
One other historic thing:
The Mtume Juicy Fruit example is not typical. Yes, it went platinum and only made #45 on the Hot 100. But that is one r&b song out of thousands that didn't make a dent nationally during that era. Herbie Hancock also went platinum with Rockitt (It only got to #71). But CHR didn't play them, and the r&b charts were a very small part of the pie statistically. Even today a very few songs go platinum without hitting the top 40.
Also, saying that the Hot 100 was lost because it didn't include other formats is like saying it was irrelevant before last month because it never included YouTube views!
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Mar 20, 2013 8:10:29 GMT -5
The ironic thing is this dominance I keep reading about wouldn't have been possible if CHR/Top 40 didn't play those songs. If the situation were like it is now that Urban singles struggle at Pop radio, there wouldn't have been any dominance except for Pop music always being on top like it happens now. Rhythmic was pulling in AI as high as CHR/Pop in the mid 2000's. Because of that I think the urban songs still would have dominated even with little CHR/Pop support. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 8:15:20 GMT -5
I noticed that the most "popular" song in the USA has sunk beneath the radio airwaves leaving barely a ripple.  Yet it's still top 10 on itunes with literally zero airplay. :'( |
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Post by trumandare on Mar 20, 2013 8:18:18 GMT -5
DEVO--- WHIP IT
made only # 14 on the hot 100 in 1980
but sold over 2 million copies
it was certified PLATINUM (by 1980 Platinum =2 million )
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Mar 20, 2013 8:27:05 GMT -5
The ironic thing is this dominance I keep reading about wouldn't have been possible if CHR/Top 40 didn't play those songs. If the situation were like it is now that Urban singles struggle at Pop radio, there wouldn't have been any dominance except for Pop music always being on top like it happens now. Rhythmic was pulling in AI as high as CHR/Pop in the mid 2000's. Because of that I think the urban songs still would have dominated even with little CHR/Pop support. I don't agree. A song like 'Be Without You' wouldn't have made the top 5 of the Hot 100 without Pop radio's support increasing its overall impressions. Which is telling because Mary J. Blige only has a handful of Pop hits in her 20 years career and the fact that CHR was suddenly playing one of her hits was because they wanted their high ratings intact by playing a popular song. Today they don't need a MJB song in their playlists because they know they'll still get their market share by playing the same 10 Dance Pop songs over and over, 15k times a week. Pop radio has always dictated the Hot 100. |
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jebsib
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Post by jebsib on Mar 20, 2013 8:40:57 GMT -5
For the first time, pop radio became a supporting format in the early / early mid 2000s. In the early / mid 90s, Pop radio fractured and its ratings plummeted, but it was still the airplay spine of the Hot 100. When rhythmic overtook Pop in the ratings from 2001 through 2006, Pop lost its dominance, and even its top songs couldn't make the Hot 100 top 20 without rhythmic support. I firmly believe that Hollaback Girl changed everything.
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Post by nivekwriter1 on Mar 20, 2013 8:50:33 GMT -5
Just Give Me A Reason #1 on iTunes!
It's hope it will reach #1 on the Hot 100.
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Mar 20, 2013 8:57:24 GMT -5
Rhythmic was pulling in AI as high as CHR/Pop in the mid 2000's. Because of that I think the urban songs still would have dominated even with little CHR/Pop support. I don't agree. A song like 'Be Without You' wouldn't have made the top 5 of the Hot 100 without Pop radio's support increasing its overall impressions. "Be Without You" was a #1 hit on rhythmic, urban and urban AC and CHR/Pop. It peaked at #3 on the Hot 100 in February 2006. Two months later, T.I.'s "What You Know" also reached #3 on the Hot 100. That was a #1 hit on rhythmic and urban, but it was a very minor CHR hit. Yet it still made #3. From what I can tell the situations are exactly the same apart from "Be Without You" having additional formats supporting it, and they still peaked at the same position. For another example, look at Pharrell's "Frontin'" (#1 urban/R&B, #32 CHR = #5 Hot 100), or Jim Jones' "We Fly High" (not #1 on urban or rhythmic/only #4 R&B, #39 CHR = #5 Hot 100), or even Hot 100 #1's like "Slow Jamz" and "Lean Back" that missed the CHR top ten. |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Mar 20, 2013 9:02:49 GMT -5
I don't agree. A song like 'Be Without You' wouldn't have made the top 5 of the Hot 100 without Pop radio's support increasing its overall impressions. "Be Without You" was a #1 hit on rhythmic, urban and urban AC and CHR/Pop. It peaked at #3 on the Hot 100 in February 2006. Two months later, T.I.'s "What You Know" also reached #3 on the Hot 100. That was a #1 hit on rhythmic and urban, but it was a very minor CHR hit. Yet it still made #3. From what I can tell the situations are exactly the same apart from "Be Without You" having additional formats supporting it, and they still peaked at the same position. For another example, look at Pharrell's "Frontin'" (#1 urban/R&B, #32 CHR = #5 Hot 100), or Jim Jones' "We Fly High" (not #1 on urban or rhythmic/only #4 R&B, #39 CHR = #5 Hot 100), or even Hot 100 #1's like "Slow Jamz" and "Lean Back" that missed the CHR top ten. Sales were counted on the Hot 100 in 2005 and 2006. T.I.'s sales may have given him that edge he needed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 9:09:39 GMT -5
DEVO--- WHIP IT made only # 14 on the hot 100 in 1980 but sold over 2 million copies it was certified PLATINUM (by 1980 Platinum =2 million ) Nowadays it is possible to top 1 million without even charting at all. Benny Bennasi - Cinema is the most recent example. It Bubbled Under for nearly forever without breaking the Top 100 and has gone well over 1 million |
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Mar 20, 2013 9:38:24 GMT -5
"Be Without You" was a #1 hit on rhythmic, urban and urban AC and CHR/Pop. It peaked at #3 on the Hot 100 in February 2006. Two months later, T.I.'s "What You Know" also reached #3 on the Hot 100. That was a #1 hit on rhythmic and urban, but it was a very minor CHR hit. Yet it still made #3. From what I can tell the situations are exactly the same apart from "Be Without You" having additional formats supporting it, and they still peaked at the same position. For another example, look at Pharrell's "Frontin'" (#1 urban/R&B, #32 CHR = #5 Hot 100), or Jim Jones' "We Fly High" (not #1 on urban or rhythmic/only #4 R&B, #39 CHR = #5 Hot 100), or even Hot 100 #1's like "Slow Jamz" and "Lean Back" that missed the CHR top ten. Sales were counted on the Hot 100 in 2005 and 2006. T.I.'s sales may have given him that edge he needed. "What You Know" reached #2 on the Hot 100 Airplay chart. |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Mar 20, 2013 9:42:11 GMT -5
Sales were counted on the Hot 100 in 2005 and 2006. T.I.'s sales may have given him that edge he needed. "What You Know" reached #2 on the Hot 100 Airplay chart. Ok but that doesn't take away the fact that after Pop radio stopped playing Urban hits, said dominance stopped and R&B has become less and less mainstream for years now. |
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Post by trumandare on Mar 20, 2013 9:48:44 GMT -5
or MUSE starlight
reached # 101 on hot 100 but sold 750,000 copies GOLD certification
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crystalphnx
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Post by crystalphnx on Mar 20, 2013 10:08:03 GMT -5
Over on the Digital Songs chart...Macklemore & Ryan Lewis' "Thrift Shop" rules for a tenth week at No. 1, selling 270,000 downloads (down 12%). At No. 2 again this week is Bruno Mars' "When I Was Your Man," which moves 230,000 (down 4%). Rihanna's "Stay," featuring Mikky Ekko, holds at No. 3 with 222,000 (down 6%) while Justin Timberlake's "Suit & Tie," featuring Jay-Z, jumps 5-4 with 201,000 (up 33%). The song profits from its performance on "Saturday Night Live" (March 9) and Timberlake's week-long stint on "Late Night With Jimmy Fallon" (March 11-15). Timberlake's latest single, "Mirrors," sails 48-8 with 121,000 (up 205%). "Mirrors" was also performed on "SNL." As for the rest of the top 10, P!nk's "Just Give Me a Reason," featuring Nate Ruess, zips 8-5 with 171,000 (up 40%). Baauer's "Harlem Shake" slides 4-6 with 146,000 (down 22%), Pitbull's "Feel This Moment" (featuring Christina Aguilera) is steady at No. 7 with 136,000 (up 8%), Drake's "Started From the Bottom" falls 6-9 with 118,000 (down 8%) and Imagine Dragons' "Radioactive" dips 9-10 with 102,000 (down 8%). Digital track sales this past week totaled 24.57 million downloads, down 3% compared with last week (25.44 million) and down 3% stacked next to the comparable week of 2012 (25.22 million). Year to date track sales are at 303.40 million, down 2% compared to the same total at this point last year (309.02 million). www.billboard.com/articles/news/1552565/bon-jovi-david-bowie-lead-six-top-10-debuts-on-billboard-200
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Post by Quixotic Music Lover on Mar 20, 2013 10:18:03 GMT -5
It looks like Pink's latest has a shot at the top 10 this week, and "Suit & Tie" should push "Stay" back to #5.
Here is my prediction for the HOT 100 top 5. I have reality in brackets. ;)
1 (outside the top 20) Harlem Shake
2 (1) Thrift Shop
3 (2) When I Was Your Man
4 (3) Suit & Tie
5 (4) Stay
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Post by Quixotic Music Lover on Mar 20, 2013 10:31:34 GMT -5
When I identified the late 90s as the low point for the HOT100, I did think of the 2000-04 period when the physical singles market virtually disappeared. I decided to exclude it since all songs had the potential to chart even though radio airplay was skewed towards urban songs (especially rap and hip-hop). Although many of those songs probably charted higher than they would have if sales had been a factor, they would still have been big hits. "In Da Club", "Yeah", "Lose Yourself", even less memorable (for me anyways) songs such as "One Call Away" and "Lean Back" would have been major hits.
I can't think of any one song that changed things around at Top 40 radio (Hollaback Girl has been mentioned). I think it was inevitable that the popularity of hip-hop would wane since it was so dominant for several years. Just like disco in the late 70s and the urban cowboy music in 1980-81, Top40 jumps on a bandwagon until their ratings and listeners tell them to change. I think it is starting to happen again, with ballads and alternative music becoming more popular, and fast tempo dance and pop music lessening in popularity.
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jebsib
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Post by jebsib on Mar 20, 2013 10:42:29 GMT -5
For me, "Hollaback Girl"was the gateway drug hit that gave artists permission to mix hip-hop beats with pop sensibilities that gradually transformed rhythmic and CHR away from the Nellys and Juveniles and towards the Fergies, Rihannas and Lady Gagas. It would have inevitably happened anyway, but it was aided by Gwen. It also came just as downloads were added to the Hot 100; Perfect timing for a semi-generational sea-change.
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kingofpain
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Post by kingofpain on Mar 20, 2013 10:45:40 GMT -5
Let's not forget a more recent example, didn't Demi Lovato hit #1 on the CHR Pop airplay chart... and she didn't even crack the HOT100 top 10. That was a very weird case... mainly due to digital sales never lining up in her favor, but more surprising is that radio supported a song that clearly wasn't that popular with the buying public.
Then you have digital/streaming smashes like Psy and Bauuer who can't even get a radio station to play them even if they got down on their knees and begged.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Mar 20, 2013 10:50:08 GMT -5
Billboard.com:
Over on the Digital Songs chart, Macklemore & Ryan Lewis' "Thrift Shop" rules for a tenth week at No. 1, selling 270,000 downloads (down 12%). At No. 2 again this week is Bruno Mars' "When I Was Your Man," which moves 230,000 (down 4%).
Rihanna's "Stay," featuring Mikky Ekko, holds at No. 3 with 222,000 (down 6%) while Justin Timberlake's "Suit & Tie," featuring Jay-Z, jumps 5-4 with 201,000 (up 33%). The song profits from its performance on "Saturday Night Live" (March 9) and Timberlake's week-long stint on "Late Night With Jimmy Fallon" (March 11-15). Timberlake's latest single, "Mirrors," sails 48-8 with 121,000 (up 205%). "Mirrors" was also performed on "SNL."
As for the rest of the top 10, P!nk's "Just Give Me a Reason," featuring Nate Ruess, zips 8-5 with 171,000 (up 40%). Baauer's "Harlem Shake" slides 4-6 with 146,000 (down 22%), Pitbull's "Feel This Moment" (featuring Christina Aguilera) is steady at No. 7 with 136,000 (up 8%), Drake's "Started From the Bottom" falls 6-9 with 118,000 (down 8%) and Imagine Dragons' "Radioactive" dips 9-10 with 102,000 (down 8%).
Digital track sales this past week totaled 24.57 million downloads, down 3% compared with last week (25.44 million) and down 3% stacked next to the comparable week of 2012 (25.22 million). Year to date track sales are at 303.40 million, down 2% compared to the same total at this point last year (309.02 million).
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Mar 20, 2013 10:53:35 GMT -5
^ Already posted five posts up.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 10:58:09 GMT -5
Also, saying that the Hot 100 was lost because it didn't include other formats is like saying it was irrelevant before last month because it never included YouTube views! That's my whole point really. There are always weaknesses in the methodology. |
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NeRD
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Post by NeRD on Mar 20, 2013 11:13:05 GMT -5
It looks like Pink's latest has a shot at the top 10 this week, and "Suit & Tie" should push "Stay" back to #5. Here is my prediction for the HOT 100 top 5. I have reality in brackets. ;) 1 (outside the top 20) Harlem Shake 2 (1) Thrift Shop 3 (2) When I Was Your Man 4 (3) Suit & Tie 5 (4) Stay Yeah that looks about right. Does anyone think the Hot 100 could return to semi-normal once Harlem Shake dies down? I mean, its a pretty rare occurance for a song to make such a viral impact a la GS so it seems that things just may balance themselves out in a couple months? |
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