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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 22, 2011 3:37:37 GMT -5
If you're going to make claims about singers and things they've said, kindly back them up with links. Not this "he said she said" bit because you're wasting everyone's time.
And I'll echo the statement above mine. Some people are treading on thin ice. I'll be back.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on Aug 22, 2011 9:31:56 GMT -5
Wow. Didn't take this thread long at all to devolve into silliness. Which is a shame, cause when I saw it bumped up I was hoping for some intelligent conversation. So Reba's hairstylist is gay... are we in 7th grade? I don't see the big deal as to why that would mean anything. Seriously, I think there's a big misconception that if people have conservative or religious beliefs, that they must "hate" homosexuals and be homophobic. Though some conservative or religious folks may not agree with that type of activityβand may let their friend or family member know thatβthe majority of folks would still love and associate with them as they would any other friend. In reality, there are a very small number of people who have radical "hatred" toward any type of lifestyle. I doubt you could find many mainstream country music artists now who have those type of feelings.While I wish what you are saying were true,Joey I don't believe its a misconception at all. When ANY legislation is considered remotely homosexual oriented is put to a vote from the American public, it's almost always a 50/50 split. Living in the Bible Belt Anything perceived as "gay" is doomed to fail if put up to the "will of the people". While I do believe its getting better, to say there are only a small number of people who have a radical hatred towards gay people is either naive or uneducated on the subject. Go to any other country music message board and read the comments made after Chely Wright came out of the closet. We had a heated debate even here at Pulse. But many other boards got quite nasty. Personally , I find bigotry based from a religious stand point the worst kind of bigotry. Anybody that argues from that standpoint is basically saying "it goes against MY religious beliefs so YOU shouldn't be yourself". From my point of view, there is nothing more Un-American then that.
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joey2002
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Post by joey2002 on Aug 22, 2011 12:47:38 GMT -5
So Reba's hairstylist is gay... are we in 7th grade? I don't see the big deal as to why that would mean anything. Seriously, I think there's a big misconception that if people have conservative or religious beliefs, that they must "hate" homosexuals and be homophobic. Though some conservative or religious folks may not agree with that type of activityβand may let their friend or family member know thatβthe majority of folks would still love and associate with them as they would any other friend. In reality, there are a very small number of people who have radical "hatred" toward any type of lifestyle. I doubt you could find many mainstream country music artists now who have those type of feelings. While I wish what you are saying were true,Joey I don't believe its a misconception at all. When ANY legislation is considered remotely homosexual oriented is put to a vote from the American public, it's almost always a 50/50 split. Living in the Bible Belt Anything perceived as "gay" is doomed to fail if put up to the "will of the people". While I do believe its getting better, to say there are only a small number of people who have a radical hatred towards gay people is either naive or uneducated on the subject. Go to any other country music message board and read the comments made after Chely Wright came out of the closet. We had a heated debate even here at Pulse. But many other boards got quite nasty. Personally , I find bigotry based from a religious stand point the worst kind of bigotry. Anybody that argues from that standpoint is basically saying "it goes against MY religious beliefs so YOU shouldn't be yourself". From my point of view, there is nothing more Un-American then that. I think things are a little bit different up here in the Northeast compared to the Southeast or in parts of the Midwest. I live in Connecticut, about halfway between Boston and New York City, and it's honestly just a small percent of people around here who have such radical hatred. It's especially rare to see it in the younger generationβsuch as college studentsβwho tend to be very open minded about things. What I was trying to say in the last post is that even if someone doesn't believe in a legislation, it doesn't necessarily mean that they "hate" homosexuals. It's true that the overall American vote would usually be close to 50/50... but it doesn't mean that 50% of Americans "hate" gay people. I know there's a percentage of Americans that indeed have intense hatredβbut I don't think it's 50%. It may seem like it sometimes, because people with any type of extreme behavior often make it a point to try and stand out in a crowd and dominate message boards. Anyway, I'm Christian and believe in the Bible, but I also respect that others have their own beliefs too. I'd never try to force my view down anyone's throat, because like you said, we live in a free country in where we are all free to have our own views. One of my best friends is actually gay, but we get along just fine because he knows where I stand, and i know where he stands.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Aug 22, 2011 13:41:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure we're getting too far; and maybe the discussion, if there continues to be one, shouldn't focus on who does or doesn't "hate" gay people. That's impossible to define.
I was alive during the 50's and 60's, when unprecedented civil rights legislation was debated and eventually passed. The question then was: do you support rights for black people -- do you want blacks to be able to eat in public restaurants, attend any college, live in any neighborhood they could afford, and so on.
There were lots of people who defended themselves from various accusations on the basis that, in their hearts, they didn't hate anybody. They just didn't think blacks belonged in "their" neighborhoods, attending "their" schools -- it wasn't convenient. Those people didn't support civil rights. OK, maybe they really didn't hate anybody. So what?
Also, I'm not sure the real question for country artists is "is it OK with you if gay people touch your CD's in the store, bring them home with them, and part with their gay cash and use their gay credit cards to support your career?" I don't think there are too many country artists who don't appreciate CD buyers, or ticketbuyers.
If there's going to be a discussion here, I would be curious about which country artists support gay causes in public. I still remember some of those who spoke up for civil rights even though I wasn't yet an adult. Johnny Cash comes to mind. He didn't care what that meant to his career. (It wasn't much of a risk for Bob Dylan or rock band members -- but it was for country artists.)
It's probably harder for an artist whose genre of music is appreciated more in the South to stand up for gays' rights. That makes it all the more impressive when a country artist does it.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on Aug 22, 2011 13:44:52 GMT -5
Oh no doubt opinions towards gays have improved immensely up north. But when people are asked to vote on issues , it is still fairly evenly split. And I believe that speaks volumes on how people really feel about homosexuals when they can go in a booth , pull the curtain and vote on which rights other law abiding , tax paying Americans do & don't "deserve". And I'm not aiming this at you at all Joey, so please don't take this as an attack in anyway. But there are more then a few people (many professed Christians) that say they have no problem with gays and do that very thing. And I'm sorry , but anyone that would vote somebody's else's rights & privileges away, is in my opinion .... a bigot. Maybe the word "hate" is to strong a word to describe those kind of attitudes . Perhaps strong dislike?
While I sometimes think attitudes towards gays are improving in the south, I'm reminded by our legislatures almost daily how far we still have to go. Just this year, Tennessee passed a law that basically bans teachers from even using the word "gay" in school. Tennessee also pretty much wiped out any job & housing protections for gays with barely a whimper from the public. Would that happen if it were black Americans under attack? Jewish people? Women? Of course not. The public would still be screaming bloody murder. Looking at presidential nominees we even have Rick Perry who has millions of people that would undoubtedly vote for him even after he has said some pretty vile things about gay Americans. Yes the younger generations views are much better then the older ones , and I believe in the next 50 years it will be a non issue .But there are still plenty of dinosaurs out there. They just choose better language to disguise their bigotry.
*Ok, I'm climbing off my soap box now*
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Aug 22, 2011 13:59:23 GMT -5
Personally , I find bigotry based from a religious stand point the worst kind of bigotry. Anybody that argues from that standpoint is basically saying "it goes against MY religious beliefs so YOU shouldn't be yourself". From my point of view, there is nothing more Un-American then that. Lumpster, I've agreed with all your comments so far. Saying you won't perform at a gay event because of "religious reasons" is the same thing as agreeing with those religious beliefs. *before this goes off topic, this isn't about Carrie Underwood. It's a general comment for those defending the comment that Mandisa (?) made.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on Aug 22, 2011 15:20:38 GMT -5
You can also add Tanya Tucker & Lee Ann Womack to the "gay Friendly" column. I understand Lee Ann Partyed it up a local Gay bar here in Nashville after she won her last CMA Female vocalist award. Right down to dancing on the bar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 15:33:45 GMT -5
It's probably harder for an artist whose genre of music is appreciated more in the South to stand up for gays' rights. That makes it all the more impressive when a country artist does it. THIS. Even though Nashville has evolved an awful, awful lot, it's tough for someone to openly come out or someone to openly support the cause. When a mainstream artist says that they support gay rights and they can still garner success, it shows that the genre has become a heck of a lot accepting. It's a really nice thing to see.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 22, 2011 18:24:16 GMT -5
Does anyone have a direct quick link to the topic about Chelly Wright? I'd be curious to read that considering it's a Pulse topic.
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Post by Fanofctrymusic on Aug 22, 2011 18:34:05 GMT -5
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Post by RobbyFlorida on Aug 22, 2011 19:10:14 GMT -5
For the record, Reba's hairstylist Brett Freedman is gay. Also, she has surrounded herself at one tine or another with gay men in her career. One for sure was her time on Broadway and when she had dancers on tour with her in thew 90's. She also recorded a song in 1994 "She Thinks His Name Was John" dealing with a gay subject AIDS. She felt that it was time that it be addressed in Nashville and she chose to do so in song despite the song's storyline being heterosexual I don't recall AIDS/HIV being a "gay subject". ANYONE can catch it, not just homosexuals. Anyone that calls it a "gay subject" needs an education. Being a gay man who happens to be POZ as well. I absolutely AGREE!! However, given the politics of the time (1994) It was still regarded as the "Gay" disease. So at the time of release and also making it a radio single as well was a big risk Reba took but she felt that it was worth it because it needed to be discussed.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Aug 22, 2011 19:42:04 GMT -5
I think it's best to steer clear of definitive statements about artists and their fans until the artist makes a declarative statement one way or another. It's just not fair to them or fans to do so.
As for country music community itself, it's long been accepting behind the scenes but Nashville itself tends to be more Liberal than the rest of the state.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2011 1:56:21 GMT -5
Toby Keith has spoken out briefly about DADT and gay marriage. I'm actually pleasantly impressed on his stance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 12:44:07 GMT -5
Well, it looks like we can add Carrie to the list now. Very courageous of her to voice her opinion, since I normally wouldn't expect her to comment on a controversial topic like this.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Jun 9, 2012 13:00:50 GMT -5
Remember Chris? :kii:
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Cody Wants Out...
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Post by Cody Wants Out... on Jun 9, 2012 13:07:23 GMT -5
I'm also glad to hear Carrie open up more about this topic.
As far as the question goes, I can see it going both ways. If I were a country star, I wouldn't really care about my fans being gay or straight, black or white, Hispanic or Asian. I think a lot of today's country artists are fine with having a gay fanbase, no matter how big it may be.
Honestly, I'm a little curious to see where artists like Jason Aldean, Chris Young, Eric Church, or Justin Moore stand on this issue. The vibe I get from some of those artists tell me they're disapproving of gay rights, including gay marriage. The one that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is Moore, since he insulted Ashton Kutcher (via Twitter) at the ACMs. Hopefully, we'll hear from some of them in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 13:55:06 GMT -5
I'm also glad to hear Carrie open up more about this topic. As far as the question goes, I can see it going both ways. If I were a country star, I wouldn't really care about my fans being gay or straight, black or white, Hispanic or Asian. I think a lot of today's country artists are fine with having a gay fanbase, no matter how big it may be. Honestly, I'm a little curious to see where artists like Jason Aldean, Chris Young, Eric Church, or Justin Moore stand on this issue. The vibe I get from some of those artists tell me they're disapproving of gay rights, including gay marriage. The one that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is Moore, since he insulted Ashton Kutcher (via Twitter) at the ACMs. Hopefully, we'll hear from some of them in the future. I don't think Jason would have too much of a problem with it, probably not Chris Young either. Both seem like pretty cool guys. Eric Church I'm not too sure about though. But yeah, I'd also like to hear the opinions of Luke Bryan, Dierks Bentley, Sara Evans, Little Big Town, Miranda Lambert, and a few others just out of curiosity.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 9, 2012 15:58:06 GMT -5
I am so glad Carrie had the guts to do that. Bless her for putting herself out like that. Hopefully other country artists follow her example now, and not in a negative way. :)
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on Jun 9, 2012 21:59:31 GMT -5
Didn't Moore have an anti gay line on a song from his debut album? At least I seem to remember he did. I don't think its fair to bring up artists on "vibe" though....
Ah, I found it. I guess its up to interpretation but here's the Justin Moore line . It was from Good Ole American Way.
"Hell, we tolerate everything and just call it love Don't tell me there ain't somethin' wrong Somebody's gotta sing this song"
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 10, 2012 0:03:24 GMT -5
Didn't Moore have an anti gay line on a song from his debut album? At least I seem to remember he did. I don't think its fair to bring up artists on "vibe" though.... Ah, I found it. I guess its up to interpretation but here's the Justin Moore line . It was from Good Ole American Way. "Hell, we tolerate everything and just call it love Don't tell me there ain't somethin' wrong Somebody's gotta sing this song" I haven't heard the song in question, but going just off this snippet of lyrics, I'm not picking up anything anti-gay about it. In context with the rest of the song it may come off differently, but I can't speak about that without hearing it (and not really having any desire too, since Justin Moore's songs are all pretty much pandering, stereotypical country messes). But yeah, I'd also like to hear the opinions of Luke Bryan, Dierks Bentley, Sara Evans, Little Big Town, Miranda Lambert, and a few others just out of curiosity. LBT performed a cover of "Born This Way" (in their Smothered and Covered [?] series) and they left the LGBT bridge lyrics unaltered. Its not an outright endorsement of their opinions on the subject (as a whole, or individually), but it definitely resonated to me in a positive way that they chose to sang the song in the first place, and even moreso that they didn't tinker with it to be "safe."
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leannfan
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Post by leannfan on Jun 10, 2012 6:21:08 GMT -5
LeAnn Rimes has always supported gay rights! I'm nicely surprised that Carrie spoke out about gays too! It might cost her a few fans that don't like this opinion, but that's their loss...
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Post by KanenrΓ‘:ke on Jun 10, 2012 10:06:30 GMT -5
Didn't Moore have an anti gay line on a song from his debut album? At least I seem to remember he did. I don't think its fair to bring up artists on "vibe" though.... Ah, I found it. I guess its up to interpretation but here's the Justin Moore line . It was from Good Ole American Way. "Hell, we tolerate everything and just call it love Don't tell me there ain't somethin' wrong Somebody's gotta sing this song" I always thought that was directed at gays too.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on Jun 10, 2012 10:19:59 GMT -5
With words like "tolerate" , "love" & "wrong" used, I don't see how it could really be interpreted any other way , especially since gay marriage was a hot button topic at the time. In any case , I remember leaving that cd on the brake down lane on I-40 one morning when the cd was new and I first caught the line.
And wow , at the video below. Thanks sbp17. I had watched it before way back , but it kinda got to me this morning. Very moving.
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sbp17
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Post by sbp17 on Jun 10, 2012 10:20:01 GMT -5
That Justin Moore song is all kinds of awful. LeAnn Rimes has always supported gay rights! I'm nicely surprised that Carrie spoke out about gays too! It might cost her a few fans that don't like this opinion, but that's their loss... Speaking of LeAnn Rimes and gay rights, this performance is LeAnn at her finest...
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Post by dodgertown2012 on Jun 10, 2012 21:37:30 GMT -5
Didn't Collin Raye make a gay bashing comment in a publicized interview back in the early 2000's? I noticed that's when his recording career took a downward spiral. I miss hearing Collin on the radio, because he was one of my favorite country recording acts. Anyways, I have no opinion on this subject matter and I have nothing against homosexuality.
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musicbuff78
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Post by musicbuff78 on Jun 10, 2012 22:17:47 GMT -5
I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't care. Being homosexual, I really could care less what their views are on the issue. If I like a persons music, I'm still going to continue listening to it.
It's also not goig to change my view of the artist. If an artist I don't like (such as the one you are talking about now) supports it, it's not going to make me like them or their music. On the other hand, if an artist I really and truly like doesn't support the issue, I'm not going to change my view either....their music is why I like them, not their views on certain issues.
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Post by Almost Honest on Jun 11, 2012 0:13:26 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic and all but let's not forgot talk is cheap. It's one thing to say you support "the gays". I know equal rights for people who are homosexual has improved, especially in the North East and big cities across America. But living in the midwest I can say it still is a very unspoken and bad thing to be homosexual. I've seen co-workers talked about behind their back for being "gay" (I know it's easier to say but the word seems very derogatory IMO), there is still a lot of gay-bashing, and most of the time it is just ignored as if there is no such thing in these neck of the woods and if there is it's treated as if it's some disease. BTW if anyone doesn't believe me travel to most midwest and southern rural cities and you will still get your fair share of racism, sexism, and bigotry.
I really don't think things will ever be equal until we stop referring to people who happen to be homosexual as "gays"as if they are a different type of species. And while I am happy that these artists are brave for announcing there acceptance for equal rights; the fact that we need to treat this as if it still needs to be accepted by people is sad in and of itself.
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Post by ryanroberts on Jun 11, 2012 2:45:30 GMT -5
While I don't believe you should bash anyone for being gay ( because it doesn't help get any point across), but I'm really sad to see Carrie's comments on this issue.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jun 11, 2012 3:31:56 GMT -5
How come?
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Post by ryanroberts on Jun 11, 2012 4:52:58 GMT -5
Not really wanting to go to far on this subject, because I know my believes for whatever reasoning will piss people off, but I will summarize the best way I possibly can. Carrie isnt giving the message a supposed Christian should be sending out. She's IMO is leading not only herself, but others down the wrong path with her thoughts on Gay Marriage. christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c040.html pretty much sums up what I and many other fellow Christian believers have to say on this subject ( and for that matter try to say, but many times get shot down) I know for a non Christian believer/religious individual they may not really understand and or like this, but at the end of the day we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
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