Discussion: CHR Trends (Is Music in a Transition?)

[Deleted]

It appears that every 10 years or so, pop music goes through a period of decline and rebirth. During a decline era, crossover hits take dominance on the top 40 charts while pure pop music is most prominent during rebirth years. Such declines are noted in the following years:

• The early 80's where AC completed a nearly full takeover of top 40 following the decline of disco (Barry Manilow, Air Supply, Christopher Cross)
• Early 90's when new wave pop and metal fizzled out to ballads and alternative rock (Micheal Bolton, Mariah Carey, Sinead O'Connor)
• Early/Mid 2000's as alt rock crossovers and especially hip hop crossovers became big (Lil Jon, Nickelback, Fuel, 50 Cent)

Our last rebirth era would be the the dance-pop craze over the past 4 years, and up until now, roughly half of all music going for adds on CHR were dance in nature, whether they gained success or not. Apart from the folk craze last winter along with a few ballads, rhythmic pop made a strong comeback over the summer. While pop songs remain high on the charts, the music going for adds in the next month are a complete 180 in comparison to everything pushed by labels over the last few months. 

A quick look at Allaccess or FMBQ shows that more ballad-type songs are being released to pop through November that we have gotten in the past year. Alt/Indie bands also seem to be a prominent focus as of today: more than 5 new bands are going for adds with another 3 rising in the airplay top 40 (including AWOLNATION!) The recent rundown goes as is:

• 6 Indie/Alt bands: (Bastille, NONONO, Of Monsters and Men, The 1975, American Authors, Atlas Genius)(Imagine Dragons, AWOLNATION, Neighborhood, Paramore and New Politics already charting)
• 7 AC/Ballads: (Xtina, OneRepublic, Sia, Coldplay, Emblem3, Janelle Monae, Jessie Ware)(Passenger, John Newman, Rihanna, Emeli Sande, Miley, Taylor, Bruno charting)
• 3 R&B/Hip Hop: (Ariana, Macklemore, and Big Sean)(Macklemore and Jay already charting well while Eminem and J. Cole appear to stall)
• 3 EDM: (Zedd, Calvin Harris., and Afrojack)(Many EDM titles still charting, but apparent drop off in adds dates while Cash Cash seems to be starting well)
• 1 Pop: (Jake Miller, leaning heavily toward EDM but has low hit potential)(Many pop songs still charting, but future adds through the fall are nonexistent so far)

Don't get me wrong, most of this new music is great, contains substance, and are actually future classics unlike generic dance-pop that used to crowd the charts. It looks like a big change in music style is occurring at the moment especially considering that folk music and even piano ballads showed far greater success than many pop songs of recent.

Do you guys think a new era of crossover dominated music ("doldrums" in Zapoleon-speak) is starting to occur? Is pop music dead for now? What are your future predictions for the overall style of music?

[theflying]

I know you meant for this to be an intelligent discussion but the sensationalist, makes-no-sense title really put me off to anything else you were trying to say.

[Chelsea Press 2]

I think we're at another transition point.

There is a lot more variety on Pop right now. While it's not exactly as varied as it was in the 90s before the corporatization happened and playlists became so homogenized, but it's much better. I do see more AC and Alt types of crossovers happening. Probably some R&B as well. I don't know if we'll have much Rock on Pop, but with Daughtry coming back with a new record, let's see if it does anything on Pop. I think Dance/Electronic crossovers will continue to happen, but I see those diminishing a bit. It would be nice if there are a few Dance/Electronic songs getting some Pop play at any given time.

[Deleted]

Oct 4, 2013 1:50:33 GMT -5 theflying said:

I know you meant for this to be an intelligent discussion but the sensationalist, makes-no-sense title really put me off to anything else you were trying to say.

Fixed it. Just trying to see what pulse is all about...didn't mean to come off in a certain way

[theflying]

I still feel like your title is totally out of sync with what you're trying to say, for the sake of being annoyingly attention grabbing.

I'm not trying to be the thread title police, but it's just irritating. Obviously by no measure is pop music "on the decline", I find it a bit absurd to even ask that, and it doesn't really have anything to do with your discussion about diversity on pop radio and the amorphous nature of the genre.

That's why I don't understand why you keep clinging to it.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

It feels like we've been in a transition period for a few years now and frankly, I hope it stays. I don't like domination of any one genre over others on pop radio and this mixed bag of genres really works for me. I'd like to see more rock though. Not indie rock but guitar-heavy rock because I miss being into rock music but there hasn't been many recently that I've gotten into.

I don't know if I'd say pop is on ots routine decline now though because many of the EDM and indie songs are clearly pop first. Unless you mean pop as in just bubblegum or Katy pop, which is probably more restrictive than I'd go by but even then, that type of pop remains popular.

[Deleted]

Im not trying to say that pop radio is declining, Im pointing out that pop music seems to have fallen from interest. Look at the past 30 years; 1985-1989 is when synthpop rises after a period of many AC crossovers, 1997-2001 saw the rise of Britney, Nsync and the like after alt crossovers and AC ballads were dominant, 2009-2013 when dance pop was dominant after a period of hip hop crossovers.

Pop music is music that only finds airplay only on top-40 oriented stations. Im pointing out that the pop music itself seems to be losing interest and another period of crossovers and AC may be starting. Disco understood where I was trying to get at. Its my bad if other posters think Im coming off on the wrong way but Im not trying to argue.

In other words, is generic dance pop (pop music) dead? How does pop radio adapt to to the dissappearence of music like Slow Down or Give It 2 U after it falls from favor?

[velaxti]

I agree with what you're saying. I feel the top 10 hits on the Hot 100 this year can be grouped roughly into three categories (and these categories are based on the instrumentals to the songs, not the vocals or the artist):

Beauty and a Beat
Scream & Shout
Don't You Worry Child
Sweet Nothing
Feel This Moment
Gentleman
I Love It
Clarity
Applause
Wake Me Up
Summertime Sadness
The Fox

Thrift Shop
Suit & Tie
f**kin' Problems
Harlem Shake
Started From the Bottom
Love Me
The Way
Can't Hold Us
Mirrors
Come & Get It
Get Lucky
Blurred Lines
Treasure
We Can't Stop
Holy Grail
Berzerk
Royals
Hold On We're Going Home

Home
I Knew You Were Trouble
Try
Daylight
When I Was Your Man
Stay
Just Give Me a Reason
Radioactive
Cruise
Heart Attack
Cups
Best Song Ever
Safe and Sound
Love Somebody
Roar
Wrecking Ball

There's a few that could be in a different category, but just as a rough idea. Firstly, with the top category, it's definitely weighted more towards the beginning of the year. Secondly, the middle category probably would've been a LOT smaller if we did this for 2012. Off the top of my head there wasn't much like that last year.

I agree there's going to be a lot more crossover hits now, rather than artists making pure dance-pop songs for top 40 radio. I've been thinking since 2012 that dance-pop is in decline, but some people said it was just "coincidence" that they were all under-performing last year, but now I think even the major labels are giving up on it. I bet Jennifer Lopez's next single won't sound like Live It Up, for example. Also, Royals's success is a big thing imo, and will help top 40 radio be more accepting of hip hop again. Although Lorde isn't associated with hip hop really, I'm sure these radio DJs will hear hip hop songs in the future and think "hey, the beat to this is like Royals, maybe we should play it".

It's not just the US either. Thrift Shop, Blurred Lines and now Talk Dirty by Jason Derulo have been massive all over Europe this year.

[theflying]

In other words, is generic dance pop (pop music) dead?

Geez you really like your melodramatic statements don't you.


These things come and go in cycles. Bubblegum teen pop explosions tend to come every ten years or so. Of course dance pop isn't dead. I'm not exactly sure, like, I just don't understand how a question like that feels realistic to ask? I feel like you mean to ask if dance pop as a trend of being hot on CHR is on the outs for right now.

Which, while it doesn't feel as hot as 2011, is still going very strong. Applause, Get Lucky, Clarity, The Other Side, Come and Get It, Work Bitch, any Ke$ha song, I mean these were JUST HITS.

I do think the recent alternative streak has been REALLY fascinating though. The Lumineers, Of Monsters and Men, Philip Phillips, Mumford and Sons, Imagine Dragons (I think?) and just when I thought it might be ending here comes Lorde -- what a super interesting, and unexpected trend at Pop. I don't think Of Monsters and Men and Mumford and Sons would have gotten the Pop play they did had those songs been released even two years ago.

[jebsib]

You're right; Top 40 analysts Guy Zapoleon and Sean Ross talk about the top 40 life-cycle all the time;
The 10-year cycle actually dates back to the 1950s, with Rock and Roll 'saving the 50s, Beatlemania saving the early 60s, and Disco saving the early 70s doldrums.

Where there is a big difference this decade is that for once, mainstream top 40 ratings have not tanked (like the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s).
As such, Top 40 is not DESPERATE to grab something else that is working somewhere else (like in the past: new wave, grunge, hip-hop).

Another element is the psychological aspect of the decade we live in:
When you go from the 80s to the 90s (for instance), there is a generational shift.
Radio wants to be hip and young and jettison everything related to the former decade (era).
The 2000s and 2010s feel like many to be the same thing, just a continuation.
That may change when we enter 'The new roaring 20s' next decade)

[Deleted]

Finally we're almost on the same page haha. Of course pop music is not dead as of right now. I do think it is showing signs of decline though. There are still pure pop hits such as slow down and work bitch doing well out of the gate and similar music such as neon lights is sure to come.

Like you, the recent alt success fascinates me as well as well as other unusual trends radio used in what seems like an attempt to find a new sound. Of course, these trends (whistling, saxophone, folk, piano ballads, disco) never resurfaced again and pop was still played alongside. The difference between this year and the last few are that radio seems to have decided on what that sound should be. Now the main focus seems to be on that
newer sound with all the new releases coming out. Once pop acts finish thier current albums, thier next projects will surely have a sound influenced by todays new trends. As for EDM, some people consider that its own genre that produces its own crossovers.

I personally would like to see a split between hip hop and rock as well as a bit of EDM as well as a minority of other genres. I grew up in a family listening to rhythmic chr (WKST in early/mid 2000s) and was kinda shocked to see that acts like Jim Jones, Trillville, and 2 Pistols did not chart nearly as high as my station made it seem haha. In regards to that, Im all for hip hop and r&b making a strong comeback as Macklemore, Ariana, and even Imagine Dragons made todays sound a step closer to what it sounded like when I was young

[irice22]

I think the answer here is no.

Sure, bubblegum pop is not popular right now. However, I think acts like Katy Perry, Selena Gomez, Lady Gaga, Demi Lovato, Miley Cyrus, and One Direction to be pure pop acts, despite having slight influences from other genres.

[dbhmr]

Oct 4, 2013 8:02:36 GMT -5 theflying said:

for the sake of being annoyingly attention grabbing.

Oct 4, 2013 9:33:25 GMT -5 theflying said:

Geez you really like your melodramatic statements don't you.

The hypocrisy!

[trashynavy]

Oct 4, 2013 8:22:28 GMT -5 @thatmusik said:

Im not trying to say that pop radio is declining, Im pointing out that pop music seems to have fallen from interest. Look at the past 30 years; 1985-1989 is when synthpop rises after a period of many AC crossovers, 1997-2001 saw the rise of Britney, Nsync and the like after alt crossovers and AC ballads were dominant, 2009-2013 when dance pop was dominant after a period of hip hop crossovers.

Pop music is music that only finds airplay only on top-40 oriented stations. Im pointing out that the pop music itself seems to be losing interest and another period of crossovers and AC may be starting. Disco understood where I was trying to get at. Its my bad if other posters think Im coming off on the wrong way but Im not trying to argue.

In other words, is generic dance pop (pop music) dead? How does pop radio adapt to to the dissappearence of music like Slow Down or Give It 2 U after it falls from favor?

try to ignore the trolls... but yes I agree. Right now we're seeing "pure" pop music declining as musicians like Lorde are on the rise. The only artist that can get away with doing pop is Katy

[Envoirment]

Oct 4, 2013 11:16:05 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

Oct 4, 2013 8:02:36 GMT -5 theflying said:

for the sake of being annoyingly attention grabbing.

Oct 4, 2013 9:33:25 GMT -5 theflying said:

Geez you really like your melodramatic statements don't you.

The hypocrisy!

A bit random, but I love this post. For some reason I've been meaning to find a way to use "hypocrisy" for a few days and you use it so beautifully here that I cannot help but stare in awe. :'(

[Deleted]

Didn't I put the flying in her place in February do I need to READ her again? Now run along dear. Your tone is as pleasant as Christina singing live.

[Slinky]

I agree with the premise of the original post. Pure pop is in the declining part of its cycle. It probably won't reach its lowest lows of the early 90's, but it will take a backseat to other styles for a little while. CHR will keep itself centered with whatever style best corresponds to rhythmic pop (it will probably be EDM this time around), just like CHR kept itself centered with party-friendly hip-hop last time around, and just like the successful CHRs of the mid-90's kept themselves centered on dance (see the success of stations like KHKS while stations like Z100 were floundering with Alternative).

[Deleted]

the flying rn:



Don't let the haters get you down, girl!

[theflying]

Of course pop music is not dead as of right now. I do think it is showing signs of decline though.

Dude what are you talking about?

You're talking about something that has no concrete definition "declining" in undertones of "it" being permanent.

It's just frustrating because I keep feeling you're clinging to your thesis, which is this grandiose statement, with not only fairly scant evidence, but anyone who has looked at the charts as much as you have should be able to very easily discern.

We have Katy Perry, Bruno Mars, Demi Lovato, Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, Lady GaGa, Pink, OneDirection all MAJOR acts right now. You have acts like Taylor Swift, Tegan and Sara, and Robin Thicke deliberately altering their sound to go after a more "pop" route. You have pop songs DOMINATING the iTunes sales charts and video views. Pop could LITERALLY only get poppier if the Jonas Brothers and The Wanted were smashing right now.

You have radio formats like Rhythmic who are playing songs they wouldn't have TOUCHED ten years ago. Pop music is so strong right now that Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, and Miley Cyrus are all receiving strong airplay for songs that have literally not a trace of the urban influence that was virtually a requirement to get play on that format from around 2003 on.

CHR/Pop as a radio format goes through cycles of trends. I think you've accurately noticed that. But to equate the kind of CHR/Pop trends with Pop music overall just seems nonsensical, especially when CHR/Pop not only isn't abandoning it's traditional acts, they're breaking spin records.

An example of a kind of sound that's "out" right now? Pop/rock. Remember the mid 2000s with Daughtry, Kelly Clarkson's "Breakaway" songs, Avril Lavigne, Orianthi, The Fray, Nickleback -- remember those acts? They/songs with that sound can barely get played on CHR/Pop right now to save their life. That's one of the reasons Paramore's "Still Into You" has taken so long to ascend up the charts. That's one (one) of the reasons Lady GaGa's brilliant rock-tinged singles "Edge of Glory" and "You and I" didn't dominate the airwaves like they should have. That's one of the reasons Daughty had to change up their sound to include electronic/EDM elements. Why Taylor Swift went for the dubstep elements instead of the heavy guitar.

But to try and characterize that kind of sound is "dead" is silly because, as it works with cycles, it will come back. It always does.

And it is the same of whatever sound you're saying is dead -- sorry, "on the decline" -- despite there literally being not only little evidence of it being on the decline, but stronger than ever right now.

[theflying]

Don't let the haters get you down, girl!

I'll feel dragged when I my points get fairly rebutted.

It doesn't bother me if some whiny little Britney stan doesn't like my "tone" -- Britney stans aren't used to listening to someone with a strong tone.

[Deleted]

Heres the deal man, I dont know you, but you're the only one here that wants to argue. I dunno why this topic ticked you off so from the start but Im not doing this back and forth thing all day. The reason I made this topic is because I looked at a few pulse topics from 8 years ago, saw a bunch of discussions about music trends, and thought that it would be a good idea to bring a similar topic back with my first post on the forum. Thats all

[jjose712]

I like the chart right now (and i like it for a while), the more variety the better.

I don't think pop is in decline, at least not more than in the beginning of the 00's where practically all billboard hot 100 were rap and hip hop songs.
What i think it's that pop will benefict of working a little more in the lyrics. I know pop is for fun and all that, but you can make and uptempo or a dance song with lyrics that are not the standard deja vu love lyrics or the "we are having a party put your hand in the air" kind of lyrics.

The truth is i like the fussion, and a lot of alternative crossover are very poppy

[theflying]

Oct 4, 2013 14:32:37 GMT -5 @thatmusik said:

Heres the deal man, I dont know you, but you're the only one here that wants to argue. I dunno why this topic ticked you off so from the start but Im not doing this back and forth thing all day. The reason I made this topic is because I looked at a few pulse topics from 8 years ago, saw a bunch of discussions about music trends, and thought that it would be a good idea to bring a similar topic back with my first post on the forum. Thats all

I made a pretty in-depth response to your posts just now.

I'm very willing for someone to tell me why I'm wrong and you are right. Have at it. That's the discussion.

You posted a discussion and I went through why I didn't think you were right. You can not want to go back and forth (though I'm not sure what you expect a "discussion" to be about particularly when you use a pretty attention grabbing headline).

But don't start the conversation and then fret when it's being had.

To me it reads like what I've been saying this whole thread -- you keep wanting to cling to your overall idea of pop music being "dead" or "in decline" even when there's scant evidence of it.

[Deleted]

@ theflying

Ok...easy internet misunderstanding then. My bad for taking it too personal if all you wanted to do was discuss

[theflying]

Dude I don't know you either. Why would it be personal. I'm challenging your points -- which, I presume, is one reason for making a topic with quite the provocative thesis.

[Myeahhh.]

Pop music by definition isn't a technical genre of music by itself.

pop·u·lar mu·sic
noun
1.
music appealing to the popular taste, including rock and soul, country, reggae, rap, and dance music.

So even if you're branding certain songs as 'pure pop'...it's just a fancy label for something that has it's roots in something else or is it's own genre (ie. the dance pop you referenced in the first post). So, how do you define pure pop? What constitutes it? Britney Spears, NSYNC bubblegum pop or does it include 2009-2011 Kesha & Katy Perry records too? This question is of course rhetorical.

[zaiborg]

the dance edm genre is in decline but dying more slowly ...now its transforming into an urban edm hybrid or trap :)

[leonagwen]

Pop music is not in decline. Lots of diversity.R+B hip hop like mackelmore,alternative like lorde,Dance like calvin harris,bubble gum like katy perry.

[musicfanpete]

Oct 4, 2013 8:02:36 GMT -5 theflying said:

I still feel like your title is totally out of sync with what you're trying to say, for the sake of being annoyingly attention grabbing.

I'm not trying to be the thread title police, but it's just irritating. Obviously by no measure is pop music "on the decline", I find it a bit absurd to even ask that, and it doesn't really have anything to do with your discussion about diversity on pop radio and the amorphous nature of the genre.

That's why I don't understand why you keep clinging to it.

Why is this absurd for him to ask this question? I'm with you tf in that I agree with you that I don't believe pop music is on the decline, at least not right now, and is still at a peak of variety and substance that we haven't seen in many years. But that doesn't mean it's "absurd" for someone to ask this question. It's a legitimate question to ask since the quality of pop music tends to go through cycles, and everyone's opinion on the subject should be welcomed. I for one really enjoy discussing this as I have been a huge pop music fan for decades, even through the real bad times. I hope this thread stays active for quite awhile.

[musicfanpete]

Oct 4, 2013 8:22:27 GMT -5 Devil Marlena Nylund said:

It feels like we've been in a transition period for a few years now and frankly, I hope it stays. I don't like domination of any one genre over others on pop radio and this mixed bag of genres really works for me. I'd like to see more rock though. Not indie rock but guitar-heavy rock because I miss being into rock music but there hasn't been many recently that I've gotten into.

I don't know if I'd say pop is on ots routine decline now though because many of the EDM and indie songs are clearly pop first. Unless you mean pop as in just bubblegum or Katy pop, which is probably more restrictive than I'd go by but even then, that type of pop remains popular.

I love EDM music, and I was hoping we would hear more of it several years ago. The last three years have been filled with this music, and I hope it continues, with the continued balance we are seeing in this format of course. I also like the retro sound that has dominated the charts the last two years as well. It's no wonder people like me who grew up in the 80's are enjoying this!