kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 22, 2016 17:48:15 GMT -5
Luke just made a scene on Twitter. I ain't even gonna post it because I think it's messy af He declared his innocence and brought attention to the fact that Kesha, under oath, has already denied any assault. That's an element of the story that really hasn't been getting any play this week. I believe she claims it was coerced, but again, why do we automatically assume he's lying? It was the wrong forum - Twitter has already declared him guilty - but there's absolutely nothing "messy" about it. It actually bothers me that people are unwilling to hear his side of the story and are commenting as if he's already been convicted.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Feb 22, 2016 17:50:46 GMT -5
He could have simply defended himself and left it at that but he decided to try and paint his accuser as a liar. Whether true or not, it was a stupid thing to do.
Also, why was she questioned about this back in 2011? If she said under oath nothing happened, how did the whole thing start in the first place?
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 22, 2016 17:52:13 GMT -5
He could have simply defended himself and left it at that but he decided to try and paint his accuser as a liar. Whether true or not, it was a stupid thing to do. Also, why was she questioned about this back in 2011? If she said under oath nothing happened, how did the whole thing start in the first place? It was a lawsuit by her (old?) management company. They claim he got her to drop the company through intimidation/coersion/etc. Not sure what you mean by defend himself but paint his accuser as a liar. She claims he sexually assaulted her. How do you say you didn't rape her without calling her a liar?
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JamaicaFunk²
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Will & Grace!
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Post by JamaicaFunk² on Feb 22, 2016 17:53:29 GMT -5
Personally, I don't necessarily believe either side 100%. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I'm sure.
If he's guilty of this, why did she wait so long and throw it in as part of a contract lawsuit? The timing just looks suspect. But, if he really is innocent, why in the world hasn't he filed a defamation suit against her?
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Feb 22, 2016 17:54:46 GMT -5
It is Law 101 that you should never, ever, ever make a public comment involving the details of a case you are a part of. That's why it's messy. If he is right and will win in court, then he should. Saying ANYTHING like this is always trouble and his lawyers probably punched through their screens as it was happening. Saying she is doing it for money is stupid. He should not comment on what he suspects about her motives or seek to tarnish her in any way. Completely foolish.
Divorcing spouses aren't even supposed to say anything about one another on Facebook for god's sake.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 22, 2016 17:55:48 GMT -5
Personally, I don't necessarily believe either side 100%. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I'm sure. If he's guilty of this, why did she wait so long and throw it in as part of a contract lawsuit? The timing just looks suspect. But, if he really is innocent, why in the world hasn't he filed a defamation suit against her? He has... It is Law 101 that you should never, ever, ever make a public comment involving the details of a case you are a part of. That's why it's messy. If he is right and will win in court, then he should. Saying ANYTHING like this is always trouble and his lawyers probably punched through their screens as it was happening. Saying she is doing it for money is stupid. He should not comment on what he suspects about her motives or seek to tarnish her in any way. Completely foolish.Divorcing spouses aren't even supposed to say anything about one another on Facebook for god's sake. But that's a huge part of his case. His lawyer has argued this as well. This is nothing new -- a fundamental part of his argument is that Kesha concocted the rape claim as extortion of sorts to get out of the deal. I can't say for sure that his lawyers advised him to comment, but he didn't go off brand.
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Feb 22, 2016 18:01:35 GMT -5
Personally, I don't necessarily believe either side 100%. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I'm sure. If he's guilty of this, why did she wait so long and throw it in as part of a contract lawsuit? The timing just looks suspect. But, if he really is innocent, why in the world hasn't he filed a defamation suit against her? He has... It is Law 101 that you should never, ever, ever make a public comment involving the details of a case you are a part of. That's why it's messy. If he is right and will win in court, then he should. Saying ANYTHING like this is always trouble and his lawyers probably punched through their screens as it was happening. Saying she is doing it for money is stupid. He should not comment on what he suspects about her motives or seek to tarnish her in any way. Completely foolish.Divorcing spouses aren't even supposed to say anything about one another on Facebook for god's sake. But that's a huge part of his case. His lawyer has argued this as well. This is nothing new -- a fundamental part of his argument is that Kesha concocted the rape claim as extortion of sorts to get out of the deal. I can't say for sure that his lawyers advised him to comment, but he didn't go off brand. His lawyer can say it, and he can say it in court if he wants. As the defendant in the case, he should not be publicly commenting on ANYTHING about the details of the case, especially the victim. Mostly because he risks exposing or creating new evidence for the other side.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 18:06:47 GMT -5
Personally, I don't necessarily believe either side 100%. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I'm sure. If he's guilty of this, why did she wait so long and throw it in as part of a contract lawsuit? The timing just looks suspect. But, if he really is innocent, why in the world hasn't he filed a defamation suit against her? I think you're confused. The sexual allegations were the first suit filed. The contractiual lawsuit came after. Dr. Luke also filed a defamation suit that was dismissed.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 22, 2016 18:07:39 GMT -5
He has... But that's a huge part of his case. His lawyer has argued this as well. This is nothing new -- a fundamental part of his argument is that Kesha concocted the rape claim as extortion of sorts to get out of the deal. I can't say for sure that his lawyers advised him to comment, but he didn't go off brand. His lawyer can say it, and he can say it in court if he wants. As the defendant in the case, he should not be publicly commenting on ANYTHING about the details of the case, especially the victim. Mostly because he risks exposing or creating new evidence for the other side. But is that why you're not posting it? Apologies if I misunderstood, but I took your "I'm not going to post it because it's messy" as an issue with what he wrote rather than the legal strategy behind what he wrote.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Feb 22, 2016 18:16:36 GMT -5
I believe Kesha. However, I don't think his twitter rant was messy and it seemed pretty standard/straightforward for someone accused of and denying rape charges. That is part of what I am curious about legally. Like, how much does she have to prove and if she can't prove it is she just screwed?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 18:28:16 GMT -5
getonthebus is correct - generally a defendant shouldn't say anything publicly because of the risk of saying something the plaintiff can use against him in trial later. (With that said, legal teams on both sides should also tread lightly when making statements to the public, and I remember not being pleased with the way Kesha's attorney was running his mouth to the public a while back). It doesn't mean he is guilty or that what he said in itself was out of hand, it just means he's an idiot who needs to go sit down before he FUBARs his own argument in the sexual assault suit. I assume he is just trying to reiterate his innocence to the public but as someone else said, Twitter has already condemned him so he should just save it for his next day in court. Regarding her statements under oath in 2011, victims in abusive relationships often defend their abusive partners or sometimes make accusations only to recant their statements, and return to their partners an average of 6 times before leaving for good. Kesha and Luke aren't a 'traditional' couple, but the power dynamics, as Kesha alleges them to be, are pretty similar. Kesha will likely also point to how young she was when she first signed with Luke, ostensibly making her more susceptible to coercion or threats. Personally, I don't necessarily believe either side 100%. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I'm sure. If he's guilty of this, why did she wait so long and throw it in as part of a contract lawsuit? The timing just looks suspect. But, if he really is innocent, why in the world hasn't he filed a defamation suit against her? I'm going to disagree with this. Normally the 'truth is somewhere in the middle' principle is true but I mean...either he sexually assaulted her for years or he didn't. There's not really a middle ground there, unless the truth for Luke is something like, "well I didn't assault her as severely or as many times as she said. I only drugged her that one time. I stopped fucking with her once I realized she was built like a dump truck." But what fool would say that. He has to proclaim his innocence all the way here. Kesha, for her part, should avoid any embellishing - if she can prove some instances of abuse she shouldn't muddle up the evidence by making up anything extra. kanimal already said this above me, but he did file a defamation suit, which was thrown out prior to the contract ruling. Defamation is harder to prove when you're a public figure, and in Luke's case there's no proof of it yet anyway because there's no sign of his career or standing in the industry being irreparably harmed by the accusations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 18:30:24 GMT -5
I think Demi is jealous of Taylor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 18:37:01 GMT -5
I still kind of laugh at the fact that he bothered to file a defamation suit at all. He never would have won that, and it frankly looks worse on him for trying and failing than to have not filed one at all. In all actuality, it's less incriminating that he did file one, but to the GP who don't fully grasp how this stuff works, the charges being dropped against Kesha makes Luke look that much worse.
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**βécky**™
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Post by **βécky**™ on Feb 22, 2016 18:48:45 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 19:15:29 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 19:45:07 GMT -5
I believe Kesha. However, I don't think his twitter rant was messy and it seemed pretty standard/straightforward for someone accused of and denying rape charges. That is part of what I am curious about legally. Like, how much does she have to prove and if she can't prove it is she just screwed? Evidence was not one of my strong subjects to put it lightly, so I won't wade in too deeply here. But: - in a criminal trial one must prove a defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. There may be a number of reasons why Kesha did not press charges against Luke and try to get a criminal case against him going, but I am guessing the elapsed time is the biggest reason. Any physical injuries (assuming there are any still present) would be hard to show or trace directly back to Luke after a certain amount of time, the opportunity for a DNA test is all but gone by now, and the criminal statute of limitations may have passed for some or all incidents. - in civil court, the standard of evidence will either be a "preponderance of evidence" or "clear and convincing evidence." Preponderance is the more common one, and is simply evidence which shows that one's allegations are more likely to have happened than not. Clear and convincing evidence, ironically, is not the clearest standard (IMO); it requires stronger evidence than preponderance but is still below beyond a reasonable doubt so it's not quite clear what the threshold is. Either way, Kesha can't walk into court with nothing and from the outside looking in, it seems her biggest hurdle is that she needs veritable witness testimony besides her own. If she can get even just one or two strong witnesses, I think she has good chances of winning, which is why I am really hopeful that the outpouring of support on Twitter actually means something for her in the long run. But I'll also note here that character evidence rules are extremely tricky so she can't just pull people on the stand to testify what an asshole Luke is. If there are other people who have been assaulted by Luke, her attorneys will need to treat the evidence in such a way that it establishes a certain pattern of behavior; otherwise it's just "yeah this guy was awful to me" and that doesn't mean he's the same kind of awful to everyone. Also, this is more a wording technicality, but in civil court defendants are not found guilty/not guilty; they are held liable/not liable (because damages can be sought in civil trial). ~~~~ I noted earlier that she shouldn't embellish either - 12 lies don't erase 1 truth, if that 1 truth can be proven; but it makes it harder for a judge to see the 1 truth if he or she has to wade through 12 lies. That Kelley Locke twitter shines a light on the 'somewhere in the middle' angle, if one wants to look at it that way; Luke may very well be right that Kesha is just trying to get out of her contract, but if the very reason she has been trying to get out of her contract all these years is because he raped her shortly after they met and has been holding it over her head ever since, well, is that really all that surprising? The poor girl has been hoping and praying for an escape from something that happened 10 years ago, but being young and naive back then didn't realize the way out was to press charges immediately. Right Round is where things get weird but apparently her continued silence is bought with overnight success...it makes total sense that she would testify in his favor in 2011, when she was still in the midst of promoting Cannibal and maybe being threatened with the one good thing to come out of all this - her 'suddenly' successful career - being ended. Warrior era goes to shit in 2012, Luke is becoming progressively more controlling of her material (note the percentage of Luke-produced tracks on Animal/Cannibal compared to Warrior + the total shutdown of Flaming Lips project), we get a deleted tweet about being 'forced' to sing her lead single, and after rehab and some distance she finally decides she's had enough. Kesha needs to hire Kelley Locke to be on her legal team, damn. (And not related at all but I'm in love with her tweet about self-identifying as the 5H member who can't dance but commits to choreography.)
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SoMuchToSay
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Post by SoMuchToSay on Feb 22, 2016 23:23:16 GMT -5
I think Demi is jealous of Taylor. I can kind of see where Demi is coming from. But why did Taylor need a rep to give a statement about it? Why does every good deed she does need to be publicized? It just seems like so much of what she does is for her own press. But it's whatever. As far as this case goes, I'm on the fence. Everyone has turned on Luke hardcore, when Kesha has little to no proof and even said under oath that he didn't rape her. I've been an Animal since the beginning, but even I'm kinda skeptic of her claims. While I can totally see Luke being a controlling asshole, the media has definitely done a good job painting him as the villain, when is a total he says / she says case. And as much money as they have invested in her career, I'm curious to see if/how Sony moves forward promoting her future music. On the other hand IF he did abuse her, then this is a total travesty.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 0:11:56 GMT -5
I think Demi is jealous of Taylor. I can kind of see where Demi is coming from. But why did Taylor need a rep to give a statement about it? Why does every good deed she does need to be publicized? It just seems like so much of what she does is for her own press. But it's whatever. Kesha's mom tweeted about it first and then Taylor's rep confirmed it when contacted. Taylor is very slick about this - she almost never confirms her good deeds before someone else does. Someone else makes mention of it, then her publicist is contacted by some news outlet and verifies it. That in itself could be a PR tactic, but if so it is a smart one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 2:09:38 GMT -5
PR tactic or not, it's still a kind thing for Taylor to do. Should she happen to reap benefits from it too? Fine by me, but whatever her motive I'm ok with what she did and how she went about it. Maybe she's a good person, maybe she's a marketing genius, or maybe she's both. I don't get how any of those could be a bad thing, especially when neither Taylor nor her team gave the money as an "act of feminism" in the first place. That whole narrative was pulled straight out of Demi's petty ass, although social media holding Taylor to some nonexistent standard of feminism didn't help.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 23, 2016 2:21:52 GMT -5
I think Demi is jealous of Taylor. I can kind of see where Demi is coming from. But why did Taylor need a rep to give a statement about it? Why does every good deed she does need to be publicized? It just seems like so much of what she does is for her own press. But it's whatever. But publicizing her donation is important in this case because it broadcasts her support for Kesha. People like Demi wanted Taylor to speak up. She "spoke up" the second the donation went public.
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cjay
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Post by cjay on Feb 23, 2016 5:36:07 GMT -5
Taylor Swift is not the f**king savior of women. She can't and shouldn't take on everything. She'd never have a music career if she did cuz she's be busy fighting battles. Demi and any other female in the industry could very well speak up. Why are they waiting for Taylor? Just because she branded herself as a feminist doesn't mean she has to carry the weight for billions of women. That's ridiculous. Dr. Martin Luther King didn't organize marches and participate in every single civil rights event in the 50s and 60s. Sure he supported them, but he didn't lead them all. Just like the the president of the United States can't take on every single issue in America. Just like we can't get involved in saving our best friends from every single one of Their f**k ups / slip ups. It is unreasonable to think one person should be involved in everything. And if Taylor did do that we'd start talking crap and saying how it's not genuine. Damn if she does. Damn if she doesn't. If I was on Twitter I would have tweeted Demi "why you waiting on Taylor when you can take the lead on this one. There's room for more than one feminist. I'll be impressed the day you stop shading on Twitter and take action. Be a leader."
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missgenericnickname
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Probably watching YouTube or some other bull
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Post by missgenericnickname on Feb 23, 2016 9:29:24 GMT -5
I just have to ask, I heard that they did a rape kit thing to her(like the swabbing I think). Is that true or no???
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Snowbeast
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Post by Snowbeast on Feb 23, 2016 14:18:58 GMT -5
The only thing I don't get, is that the judge said she's free to record without Dr. Luke's involvement and Sony isn't holding her back. Then I read other reports that he's entitled to 6 songs per album?
What is the real situation? The reports are so messy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 16:48:20 GMT -5
The only thing I don't get, is that the judge said she's free to record without Dr. Luke's involvement and Sony isn't holding her back. Then I read other reports that he's entitled to 6 songs per album? What is the real situation? The reports are so messy The judge ruled that she is free to record without working with Dr. Luke, but that she cannot release anything without his consent so long as she is under contract, which was upheld in court. The contract (allegedly) is for 8 albums, of which she has released 2, meaning she is still obligated to release 6 more albums. Kesha is worried that Sony will not promote the projects should they be released, but with Dr. Luke having final say on what would constitute an album, it's highly unlikely she'll ever have another album released anyway.
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RockaByeBaby
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Post by RockaByeBaby on Feb 24, 2016 14:48:06 GMT -5
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Feb 24, 2016 14:50:10 GMT -5
It's sad that Cannibal and I Am The Dance Commander don't count.
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**βécky**™
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a little flippant
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Post by **βécky**™ on Feb 24, 2016 15:36:48 GMT -5
Adele supporting Kesha during her Brit Award acceptance speech. Queen!
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RockaByeBaby
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Post by RockaByeBaby on Feb 24, 2016 18:42:07 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 19:11:57 GMT -5
I wonder how much it would cost to buy her out of her contract? These celebs supporting her should put something together.
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stunnedout
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I said what I said!
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Post by stunnedout on Feb 24, 2016 19:19:20 GMT -5
I think Demi is jealous of Taylor. obviously
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