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Post by travelrocks24 on Apr 28, 2019 10:14:49 GMT -5
That was a great read and so true. Agreed.....and the stats are ridiculous. If radio was smart, they would take an hour out of the workday and play music that most don't know to see how well it tests. They can get the songs by looking from number 50 and below on Mediabase. It is sad when you hear the same songs 10 times a day. I know some radio stations will get artists together on a major holiday (4th of July for example) that most people don't know, which hopefully builds up the artist's fan base. I was watching the CMT Music 12 pack countdown Friday night and positions 9-12 were all solo female artists.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on May 20, 2019 20:27:41 GMT -5
I just wanna take a moment and call out country radio for the women thing especially recently.
The past few weeks the charts have experienced a major slowdown and the songs that have been hit the hardest and look about ready to give up are the ones by females.
The latest singles from Ashley McBryde, Kacey Musgraves, and Lauren Alaina have all at one point or another have gone recurrent on Billboard the past month and have struggled so much so that I don't see any of them making the Top 30 and yet none of the other male songs below the Top 30 seem to be going recurrent or in any real danger. Farther up the chart Carly Pearce, Tenille Townes, and Runaway June can all barely stay alive on the chart with Tenille Townes eligible to go recurrent next week and Carly Pearce falling out of the Top 30 this week.
The charts have slowed down and this feels as though radio is like "Quick cut all the female songs, they've made it up high enough". I really hope this summer country radio gets their crap somewhat together for the female in country radio problem but I don't have high expectations. At the very least I do hope that a few of these songs can tough it out and at least make the Top 20.
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recordyear
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Post by recordyear on May 20, 2019 21:09:05 GMT -5
Also, Miss Me More is going to peak after Whiskey Glasses and GIRL after God's Country, which makes the #2 peak for both songs easier and seem to make sense because they are not as big hits as other two, even though they are bigger hits than Love Ain't, for example.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on May 20, 2019 21:12:36 GMT -5
Also, Miss Me More is going to peak after Whiskey Glasses and GIRL after God's Country, which makes the #2 peak for both songs easier and seem to make sense because they are not as big hits as other two, even though they are bigger hits than Love Ain't, for example. I do think "Girl" still has a chance. Especially since I think both Luke Combs and Blake Shelton will be done by the time Maren Morris hits #1 and I doubt Chris Young or Dan + Shay get ahead. With Kelsea Ballerini. That one is harder because she needs to wait out "Whiskey Glasses" which is easier said than done. Also she has "Rumor" closing the gap as well. That being said Black River is known for notorious huge week pushes so I am not quite ready to rule out either hitting #1, but both have their work cut out for them.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 2, 2019 1:47:09 GMT -5
"Miss Me More" is going to peak next week, probably. Whether it gets #1 all depends on if Big Loud decides to play nice with Morgan Wallen's "Whiskey Glasses" and let Kelsea have the #1, or push for a second week and block Kelsea. I also doubt Luke Combs will go up ahead of Maren Morris' "Girl." Luke's single made the top 15 super fast because it was a lead single from a white hot artist, but those kinds of songs always slow down in the top 15 and don't usually pass anyone else. Since Luke and Maren are label mates, I think Columbia will arrange things so that "Girl" gets to #1 before "Beer Never Broke My Heart."
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Post by travelrocks24 on Jun 5, 2019 9:43:06 GMT -5
hollywoodlife.com/2019/05/28/lena-stone-women-country-radio-play-interview/Country singer/songwriter Lena Stone breaks down the reason why women are not getting played on country radio & what men can do to help. Maren Morris, Carrie Underwood, Lauren Alaina and more country stars are constantly clapping back at media and radio who try to pit female artists and their music against each other, which happens to be quite often. The reason the women in country music have continued to raise their voices against this is because it’s become obvious in the last tens years that female country singers are struggling to get played on the radio. “What got me into country music was all these women, like Taylor Swift and Jennifer Nettles. I moved to Nashville, and didn’t notice so much my first couple years, but once Taylor was moving into pop, I realized she left this huge hole and there’s no one filling that space on radio — and it’s not for lack of talented women in Nashville, it’s what the institution is pushing forward,” explained Lena Stone, a singer/songwriter and co-founder of the Song Suffragettes, an all-female writers group in Nashville.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 6, 2019 23:14:45 GMT -5
The ladies of Little Big Town made a knock on country radio about women getting little airplay these days last night on the CMT Awards show they hosted. There was also a prominent performance of "Delta Dawn" by Tanya Tucker that had her joined on stage by a number of country females past and present for a big collaborative effort. It was wonderful to see. I was especially geeked to see Deana Carter up there. She still looks amazing.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 1:08:21 GMT -5
I might've spoken too soon about Kelsea missing #1. Morgan suddenly had a big loss. I'm wondering if Big Loud just decided to let Kelsea have this or if they're pushing for a second week. sabre14 Know anything about this? Is Black River maxing this week? Is Big Loud still pushing Morgan?
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 7, 2019 2:42:14 GMT -5
I might've spoken too soon about Kelsea missing #1. Morgan suddenly had a big loss. I'm wondering if Big Loud just decided to let Kelsea have this or if they're pushing for a second week. sabre14 Know anything about this? Is Black River maxing this week? Is Big Loud still pushing Morgan? Yes, this has already been talked about that it was Kelsea's final push week, which is why she's experiencing such monumental daily audience gains.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 2:49:15 GMT -5
I might've spoken too soon about Kelsea missing #1. Morgan suddenly had a big loss. I'm wondering if Big Loud just decided to let Kelsea have this or if they're pushing for a second week. sabre14 Know anything about this? Is Black River maxing this week? Is Big Loud still pushing Morgan? Yes, this has already been talked about that it was Kelsea's final push week, which is why she's experiencing such monumental daily audience gains. Zoinks! I've been asleep too long lol. Further down the chart, we've got Carrie and Carly who I think are gonna do just fine. The problem is that females tend to release songs that don't really fit in with what people are used to hearing on the radio, like "Somebody's Daughter" or "Girl." "Southbound" and "Closer to You" should test just fine and have no problem making their way up the charts. I don't think they'll go all the way to #1 because of momentum, but they'll do what they need to do - sell albums and give the artists more exposure.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 7, 2019 3:07:21 GMT -5
Yes, this has already been talked about that it was Kelsea's final push week, which is why she's experiencing such monumental daily audience gains. Zoinks! I've been asleep too long lol. Further down the chart, we've got Carrie and Carly who I think are gonna do just fine. The problem is that females tend to release songs that don't really fit in with what people are used to hearing on the radio, like "Somebody's Daughter" or "Girl." "Southbound" and "Closer to You" should test just fine and have no problem making their way up the charts. I don't think they'll go all the way to #1 because of momentum, but they'll do what they need to do - sell albums and give the artists more exposure. I believe someone said "Closer to You" was actually testing rather poorly in her thread the other day (which could explain why it is starting to struggle lately). On the other hand, Maren's single has gone up the charts without a hiccup; I think "Girl" has a good shot of hitting #1 with the way its going. The only way I see it missing out is if it runs into poor timing during the week it goes for max spins, like what happened to Kelsea's song (because by all accounts "Miss Me More" has been a #1-deserving smash and was looking like a logical chart-topper for a long time -- though it should still get there on MB at the very least).
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 3:57:56 GMT -5
Zoinks! I've been asleep too long lol. Further down the chart, we've got Carrie and Carly who I think are gonna do just fine. The problem is that females tend to release songs that don't really fit in with what people are used to hearing on the radio, like "Somebody's Daughter" or "Girl." "Southbound" and "Closer to You" should test just fine and have no problem making their way up the charts. I don't think they'll go all the way to #1 because of momentum, but they'll do what they need to do - sell albums and give the artists more exposure. I believe someone said "Closer to You" was actually testing rather poorly in her thread the other day (which could explain why it is starting to struggle lately). On the other hand, Maren's single has gone up the charts without a hiccup; I think "Girl" has a good shot of hitting #1 with the way its going. The only way I see it missing out is if it runs into poor timing during the week it goes for max spins, like what happened to Kelsea's song (because by all accounts "Miss Me More" has been a #1-deserving smash and was looking like a logical chart-topper for a long time -- though it should still get there on MB at the very least). It's just not showing up yet due to low familiarity. It wasn't even on the 5/31 report and the 5/24 report had it at 13.6% negative with only 76.7% familiarity, the lowest on the whole chart. People just haven't heard it yet. I think once they hear it they'll like it. The problem is the number of weeks it's been on the chart. By the time people get around to hearing it and realize it's a hit, it'll be like 40 weeks old and in the 20s and it'll time out. Exact same thing that happened to "Caught Up in the Country" unfortunately. There's just too much label politics and name recognition preventing the stations from just testing each song and figuring out if it's a hit or not. That's why I think she'll time out around #10. It'll be a marathon chart run but she'll get there. I think "Girl" will get a Mediabase #1. The Billboard #1 all depends on how Sony decides to play it with their other records that are surrounding Maren. They could stall "Beer Never Broke My Heart" and "Raised on Country" long enough for a Mediabase #1 if they want, but I imagine the week Maren's pushed Luke and Chris will be ahead on Billboard and she'll end up at #3.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Jun 7, 2019 9:29:20 GMT -5
The problem is that females tend to release songs that don't really fit in with what people are used to hearing on the radio. That’s not the problem.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 9:34:20 GMT -5
The problem is that females tend to release songs that don't really fit in with what people are used to hearing on the radio. That’s not the problem. Okay, what is the problem in your opinion?
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jun 7, 2019 10:05:06 GMT -5
Okay, what is the problem in your opinion? I am gonna answer this for 14887fanThe problem is radio being sexist against female songs. There is no two ways about it
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 10:09:11 GMT -5
Okay, what is the problem in your opinion? I am gonna answer this for 14887fan The problem is radio being sexist against female songs. There is no two ways about it I guess you'd say the listeners are sexist, then. Because it's the research numbers that generally hold females back. Some people have suggested that maybe the polls aren't picking up a certain demographic of listeners who would enjoy females' songs more, and that's definitely something to look into, but I don't think anyone working at country radio is being sexist against women at all. That's a really bold assertion to make.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Jun 7, 2019 10:42:15 GMT -5
I am gonna answer this for 14887fan The problem is radio being sexist against female songs. There is no two ways about it I guess you'd say the listeners are sexist, then. Because it's the research numbers that generally hold females back. Some people have suggested that maybe the polls aren't picking up a certain demographic of listeners who would enjoy females' songs more, and that's definitely something to look into, but I don't think anyone working at country radio is being sexist against women at all. That's a really bold assertion to make. You don’t read much, do you? A quick Google search or two should do the trick.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jun 7, 2019 10:50:57 GMT -5
I am gonna answer this for 14887fan The problem is radio being sexist against female songs. There is no two ways about it I guess you'd say the listeners are sexist, then. Because it's the research numbers that generally hold females back. Some people have suggested that maybe the polls aren't picking up a certain demographic of listeners who would enjoy females' songs more, and that's definitely something to look into, but I don't think anyone working at country radio is being sexist against women at all. That's a really bold assertion to make. And who conducts the research? Radio does. Radio probably has a certain type of fan they want to please. If country radio wasn't being sexist against women we would have more women on country radio, there is no 2 ways about it and more female #1s The fact that right now in the Billboard Airplay Chart there are only 10 female voices (Kelsea Ballerini, Maren Morris, Lindsay Ell, Runaway June, Tenille Townes, Carrie Underwood, Hillary Scott of Lady Antebellum, Carly Pearce, P!nk, and Caylee Hammack) is another huge indicator country radio is sexist against female artists.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 7, 2019 11:25:59 GMT -5
There was a big controversy a few years ago from a radio guy calling females the tomatoes in the radio 'salad' and there have been many comments from others along the effect of 'playing more than 1 female song in a row is sinful and should be avoided,' i.e. Trying to say the people working in country radio aren't sexist at this point is just incorrect. The females put out better music than the male artists all the time, whether it's radio friendly uptempo tunes or ballads that connect well, and it doesn't really matter which way they go because the chances of success aren't really related to the material they put out. They have a few favorites at a time that get to cut through, like Kelsea Ballerini and Maren Morris, but that's it.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 11:58:08 GMT -5
I’ll get into this more tonight after I pass out, but basically I agree that there’s obviously gonna be a few people out there who are sexist, but I just feel like it’s taking the easy way out to just brand the entire institution of country radio as sexist for not playing more females when we could instead have a more productive conversation by analyzing each individual female song’s performance and figuring out why it did or didn’t react well with the listeners. In any event, I’m happy to see “Miss Me More” at #1 this week. We need more independent labels to have success in the music business. Now if only we could get some indie labels that don’t have the backing of someone wealthy to have success, too.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Jun 7, 2019 12:07:18 GMT -5
I might've spoken too soon about Kelsea missing #1. Morgan suddenly had a big loss. I'm wondering if Big Loud just decided to let Kelsea have this or if they're pushing for a second week. sabre14 Know anything about this? Is Black River maxing this week? Is Big Loud still pushing Morgan? This will be one of the biggest #1 pushes of the year. Programmers are all in with helping Back River this week. She'll easily get to #1 by Sunday on Mediabase. 262 spins gained today.
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Post by travelrocks24 on Jun 7, 2019 15:41:52 GMT -5
The bottom line is radio music producers don't look deep enough into Mediabase. I know CMT is taking the week off with CMA Fest, but I have been following the CMT 12 Pack that airs on Friday nights (and multiple times throughout the wknd) and they are playing some artists that won't get the time of day on mainstream radio. Some secondary/small markets will play independents (proof is on the musicrow.com).
I listened to Sirius XM Highway Discovery at work yesterday for about 2 hours. I heard the same songs that are on during their "On the Horizon" show for the most part, but what annoyed me more is they were playing the known artists. If this show is discovering new artists, why play the new song by Luke Combs, Eric Church, etc. Mediabase goes at least 300 songs deep, use it.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Jun 7, 2019 15:44:26 GMT -5
I’ll get into this more tonight after I pass out, but basically I agree that there’s obviously gonna be a few people out there who are sexist, but I just feel like it’s taking the easy way out to just brand the entire institution of country radio as sexist for not playing more females when we could instead have a more productive conversation by analyzing each individual female song’s performance and figuring out why it did or didn’t react well with the listeners. In any event, I’m happy to see “Miss Me More” at #1 this week. We need more independent labels to have success in the music business. Now if only we could get some indie labels that don’t have the backing of someone wealthy to have success, too. Analyzing each individual female’s song, but...not doing that for each male’s, right? Because why would we? The odds are always in their favor. Hence...country radio is sexist. Yes, that’s me branding the entire institution, because it is. To say that it isn’t is denying factual evidence. Inherently, historically, culturally, and statistically, country radio is sexist. Every aspect of it. (And lest we forget, racist & queerphobic, but that’s for another discussion, I guess.) Google search it and educate yourself on this. It’s not even cute to have an opposing opinion or play devil’s advocate, because the proof is *everywhere.*
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 15:51:44 GMT -5
I’ll get into this more tonight after I pass out, but basically I agree that there’s obviously gonna be a few people out there who are sexist, but I just feel like it’s taking the easy way out to just brand the entire institution of country radio as sexist for not playing more females when we could instead have a more productive conversation by analyzing each individual female song’s performance and figuring out why it did or didn’t react well with the listeners. In any event, I’m happy to see “Miss Me More” at #1 this week. We need more independent labels to have success in the music business. Now if only we could get some indie labels that don’t have the backing of someone wealthy to have success, too. Analyzing each individual female’s song, but...not doing that for each male’s, right? Because why would we? The odds are always in their favor. Hence...country radio is sexist. Yes, that’s me branding the entire institution, because it is. To say that it isn’t is denying factual evidence. Inherently, historically, culturally, and statistically, country radio is sexist. Every aspect of it. (And lest we forget, racist & queerphobic, but that’s for another discussion, I guess.) Google search it and educate yourself on this. It’s not even cute to have an opposing opinion or play devil’s advocate, because the proof is *everywhere.* I’d rather you present the evidence here so we can all examine it and discuss it and form our own opinions. And, yes, I do analyze every individual male song’s research and listener/radio response all the time. I’m just not buying the institutionalized sexism argument. I think the media puts a ton of attention on isolated incidents of a few random weirdos who say dumb things about tomatoes to try to paint country radio as backwards and reactionary, when in reality the vast majority of people in radio are good faith actors who just want to figure out which songs are the biggest hits. That’s sort of the nature of what the media does these days...trying to create a hyped up, sensationalized, biased story to get more clicks and views. I’m just not going to assign a bad motive to such a large flock of people unless I’m presented with evidence. You’re welcome to bring the evidence to support your claims to this forum and we can look through it all and have a lively debate. It’s definitely an important dialogue and I’m glad we’re having it.
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Jun 7, 2019 17:04:03 GMT -5
One of those times (which are still frequent) I desperately wish Dev were still with us. Sigh.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Jun 7, 2019 17:18:45 GMT -5
Analyzing each individual female’s song, but...not doing that for each male’s, right? Because why would we? The odds are always in their favor. Hence...country radio is sexist. Yes, that’s me branding the entire institution, because it is. To say that it isn’t is denying factual evidence. Inherently, historically, culturally, and statistically, country radio is sexist. Every aspect of it. (And lest we forget, racist & queerphobic, but that’s for another discussion, I guess.) Google search it and educate yourself on this. It’s not even cute to have an opposing opinion or play devil’s advocate, because the proof is *everywhere.* I’d rather you present the evidence here so we can all examine it and discuss it and form our own opinions. And, yes, I do analyze every individual male song’s research and listener/radio response all the time. I’m just not buying the institutionalized sexism argument. I think the media puts a ton of attention on isolated incidents of a few random weirdos who say dumb things about tomatoes to try to paint country radio as backwards and reactionary, when in reality the vast majority of people in radio are good faith actors who just want to figure out which songs are the biggest hits. That’s sort of the nature of what the media does these days...trying to create a hyped up, sensationalized, biased story to get more clicks and views. I’m just not going to assign a bad motive to such a large flock of people unless I’m presented with evidence. You’re welcome to bring the evidence to support your claims to this forum and we can look through it all and have a lively debate. It’s definitely an important dialogue and I’m glad we’re having it. lmgtfy.com/?q=Country+radio+sexism
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 17:23:03 GMT -5
I’d rather you present the evidence here so we can all examine it and discuss it and form our own opinions. And, yes, I do analyze every individual male song’s research and listener/radio response all the time. I’m just not buying the institutionalized sexism argument. I think the media puts a ton of attention on isolated incidents of a few random weirdos who say dumb things about tomatoes to try to paint country radio as backwards and reactionary, when in reality the vast majority of people in radio are good faith actors who just want to figure out which songs are the biggest hits. That’s sort of the nature of what the media does these days...trying to create a hyped up, sensationalized, biased story to get more clicks and views. I’m just not going to assign a bad motive to such a large flock of people unless I’m presented with evidence. You’re welcome to bring the evidence to support your claims to this forum and we can look through it all and have a lively debate. It’s definitely an important dialogue and I’m glad we’re having it. lmgtfy.com/?q=Country+radio+sexismI’ve seen plenty of articles written by the media on this topic, none of which has convinced me the problem lies within the institution of country radio. Honestly, this isn’t really a productive discussion anymore. Either we’re going to bring some evidence to the thread and discuss it or we’re going to post gifs and one-liners, lol. I’m willing to have a serious discussion about this and take a hard look at the evidence whenever it’s presented to me, because frankly I do think it’s an important topic and it is a problem that so few females get played on country radio these days.
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🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾
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Post by 🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾 on Jun 7, 2019 17:56:34 GMT -5
There was a big controversy a few years ago from a radio guy calling females the tomatoes in the radio 'salad' and there have been many comments from others along the effect of 'playing more than 1 female song in a row is sinful and should be avoided,' i.e. Trying to say the people working in country radio aren't sexist at this point is just incorrect. For those who missed out on what happened, www.cmt.com/news/1754800/men-are-lettuce-women-are-tomatoes/
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 7, 2019 18:15:47 GMT -5
I’ve seen plenty of articles written by the media on this topic, none of which has convinced me the problem lies within the institution of country radio. Honestly, this isn’t really a productive discussion anymore. Either we’re going to bring some evidence to the thread and discuss it or we’re going to post gifs and one-liners, lol. I’m willing to have a serious discussion about this and take a hard look at the evidence whenever it’s presented to me, because frankly I do think it’s an important topic and it is a problem that so few females get played on country radio these days. What I've gathered from you so far is that you seem to have a greater issue with the notion of accidentally sweeping up some innocent no-name men in the radio industry with a blanket statement that country radio as an entity is "sexist" than with recognizable female artists actually experiencing sexism that actively derails their ability to succeed and make money at their jobs, which I'd say is a bit of a problematic viewpoint given that a few radio guys who do play women falling under the umbrella of 'country radio is sexist' is pretty inconsequential compared to women losing out on their dream jobs because of stuff beyond their control where radio doesn't play them enough. I also don't get how you've come to the conclusion that country radio is so lop-sided against female artists in 2019 because they just aren't releasing the right songs. Really? I don't think this was ever destined to be a productive discussion if your angle is that women just need to do better. I've heard that so many times over on social media and from people in radio saying as much and that is far less convincing than 'country radio is sexist.' Even if not everyone in radio is actively rooting against women, the industry currently does not cater to them in a way that puts them on equal footing with male artists in any way, which is inherently sexist. Women do not have the same opportunities for success as men, and that's just factual at this point.
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Jun 7, 2019 18:27:14 GMT -5
This thread spans FIVE YEARS and on the first page alone are plenty of posts that cite the specific data-backed evidence you seem to be looking for. Pay particular attention to anything by 43dudleyvillas, who was at the forefront of data-mining scads of evidence regarding this subject. I'm sure she is turning over in her grave that this is even still a discussion today. But please don't beg us for evidence when it is literally in this thread for you to find.
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