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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 18:31:33 GMT -5
Iâve seen plenty of articles written by the media on this topic, none of which has convinced me the problem lies within the institution of country radio. Honestly, this isnât really a productive discussion anymore. Either weâre going to bring some evidence to the thread and discuss it or weâre going to post gifs and one-liners, lol. Iâm willing to have a serious discussion about this and take a hard look at the evidence whenever itâs presented to me, because frankly I do think itâs an important topic and it is a problem that so few females get played on country radio these days. What I've gathered from you so far is that you seem to have a greater issue with the notion of accidentally sweeping up some innocent no-name men in the radio industry with a blanket statement that country radio as an entity is "sexist" than with recognizable female artists actually experiencing sexism that actively derails their ability to succeed and make money at their jobs, which I'd say is a bit of a problematic viewpoint given that a few radio guys who do play women falling under the umbrella of 'country radio is sexist' is pretty inconsequential compared to women losing out on their dream jobs because of stuff beyond their control where radio doesn't play them enough. I also don't get how you've come to the conclusion that country radio is so lop-sided against female artists in 2019 because they just aren't releasing the right songs. Really? I don't think this was ever destined to be a productive discussion if your angle is that women just need to do better. I've heard that so many times over on social media and from people in radio saying as much and that is far less convincing than 'country radio is sexist.' Even if not everyone in radio is actively rooting against women, the industry currently does not cater to them in a way that puts them on equal footing with male artists in any way, which is inherently sexist. Women do not have the same opportunities for success as men, and that's just factual at this point. Oh, I wasnât saying that women just need to do better lol. I just meant that the kind of songs women generally release just donât tend to fit the mold of what country radio plays in 2019. Weâre going through an era where radio listeners seem to want simple, catchy, âdriving aroundâ types of songs. Thatâs why women like Tenille Townes or Miranda Lambert or Kacey Musgraves who release heavier content stick out like a sore thumb on radio. I wasnât saying that I think their quality is worse...just that the type of music they tend to release doesnât fit the mold of the sort of easy listening background noise that radio wants these days. I guess youâd call it the dumbing down of country radio. Anyway, Iâll have more in a little bit. I appreciate the spirited discussion.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 7, 2019 18:43:20 GMT -5
What I've gathered from you so far is that you seem to have a greater issue with the notion of accidentally sweeping up some innocent no-name men in the radio industry with a blanket statement that country radio as an entity is "sexist" than with recognizable female artists actually experiencing sexism that actively derails their ability to succeed and make money at their jobs, which I'd say is a bit of a problematic viewpoint given that a few radio guys who do play women falling under the umbrella of 'country radio is sexist' is pretty inconsequential compared to women losing out on their dream jobs because of stuff beyond their control where radio doesn't play them enough. I also don't get how you've come to the conclusion that country radio is so lop-sided against female artists in 2019 because they just aren't releasing the right songs. Really? I don't think this was ever destined to be a productive discussion if your angle is that women just need to do better. I've heard that so many times over on social media and from people in radio saying as much and that is far less convincing than 'country radio is sexist.' Even if not everyone in radio is actively rooting against women, the industry currently does not cater to them in a way that puts them on equal footing with male artists in any way, which is inherently sexist. Women do not have the same opportunities for success as men, and that's just factual at this point. Oh, I wasnât saying that women just need to do better lol. I just meant that the kind of songs women generally release just donât tend to fit the mold of what country radio plays in 2019. Weâre going through an era where radio listeners seem to want simple, catchy, âdriving aroundâ types of songs. Thatâs why women like Tenille Townes or Miranda Lambert or Kacey Musgraves who release heavier content stick out like a sore thumb on radio. I wasnât saying that I think their quality is worse...just that the type of music they tend to release doesnât fit the mold of the sort of easy listening background noise that radio wants these days. I guess youâd call it the dumbing down of country radio. Anyway, Iâll have more in a little bit. I appreciate the spirited discussion. See, but this argument you're backing up doesn't really hold water when women who do release those types of catchy "driving around" songs, still falter on the charts anyway while their male peers succeed with the same stuff in spades. It also is in contrast with the fact that many women have only had limited success with songs that didn't fit that mold at all. For examples of that look at the biggest (or in some cases, only) hit singles from Cam, Jana Kramer, Kacey Musgraves, Sunny Sweeney, Danielle Bradbery, Carly Pearce, Cassadee Pope, Jennifer Nettles, RaeLynn, etc. and you'll see that all of them failed or had limited success when they tried to release the types of songs you think should've given them an easy road to airplay and yet had bigger hits with slower, deeper songs. There really is no noticeable correlation between song quality and chart success for women. Kelsea Ballerini and Maren Morris have had hits with lighter uptempo fare, but that didn't stop country radio from shutting out other females when they tried. ETA: also read what carriekins said on the bottom of the last page if you missed it.
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 7, 2019 21:45:39 GMT -5
Thanks for bringing these earlier posts to my attention, y'all. Looks like I have some reading to do tonight, lol.
Some of the songs by women that have been successful despite not conforming to the traditional mold of what country radio usually plays actually did research poorly, but performed well on radio anyway due to heavy pushing from the label, support from country radio, programs like On the Verge, etc. "Burning House" and "Every Little Thing" are two examples of songs that had weaker research but managed to do well on the charts because the artists had a lot of support from radio. Both Cam and Carly Pearce got the On the Verge treatment from iHeartMedia stations, giving their singles a boost on the charts, and there was a lot of early excitement at radio for them right out of the gate, so their songs did well despite the weaker research.
I still think radio listeners have just been conditioned to prefer songs that are easy to listen to in the background and don't require much thinking, like a lot of Kelsea Ballerini's output, or the latest record from Carly Pearce, "Closer to You," which, as I mentioned in another thread, is actually not researching too poorly, instead suffering from low listener familiarity due to being stuck in the bottom half of the chart. Carrie Underwood has also had a few songs that tested well with listeners. "Smoke Break," "Heartbeat," and "Church Bells" all come to mind. "Smoke Break" and "Heartbeat" kind of fall into that category of easy listening. "Church Bells" is a story song, but it's about a topic Carrie has been singing about frequently for years, so listeners are more likely to be accepting of that type of song. (Again, conditioning.) "Southbound" is another song that just blends in with all the chill out, party songs on the radio, which is why I think it'll be Carrie's biggest hit this album cycle.
Some of the other examples of females releasing songs that should've been given an easy road to airplay but failed, like Cassadee Pope's "Summer" or RaeLynn's "Tailgate," I think had more to do with the artist having had too many flops already for radio to be willing to give their new singles a chance. We'd have to look at each song on a case-by-case basis to figure out why it flopped. But there are plenty of male artists who have tried to release radio candy and failed, too. There's just too many artists for radio to play them all, and so most artists only get one or two chances to score a hit before radio stops bothering to even seriously consider playing their music.
Bottom line is this: Listeners like what they've been conditioned to hear. If they were fed a healthier diet of heavier songs for a few months, is it possible they'd start to warm up to this type of music and the songs would test better? Sure, but that's a gamble country radio programmers don't want to take.
Anyway, I'll rummage through this thread and come back with more replies about the articles I find later on tonight. I appreciate the discussion!
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bboat11
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Post by bboat11 on Jun 8, 2019 2:25:18 GMT -5
One of the things this discussion has made me think a little more heavily about is the odd disparity between the way the country industry and country fans treats their female artists and the way that country radio treats female artists. By all accounts, the country industry pays noticeable respect to older artists, regardless of gender. Bring up Dolly Parton or Reba McEntire in the middle of any country music event, and you are going to get thunderous applause just like you would if you brought up people like George Strait or Merle Haggard. And it's not just the HUGE names that get that kind of reception. Just about every person who claps for Loretta Lynn, Tammy Wynette, and Patsy Cline would also go nuts at the mention of somebody like Crystal Gale or Kitty Wells. Hell, even relatively inconsequential artists like Jeannie Sealy and Connie Smith perform at the Opry almost every night, and nobody seems to blatantly get disappointed and use it as an opportunity to run to the bathroom until they bring Bill Anderson out instead...
It is now getting to the point where people who celebrate all the foundational females in Country History are also totally willing to put more modern names like Martina McBride, Patty Loveless, and Trisha Yearwood alongside names like Loretta Lynn and Tammy Wynette, as if they have all made similarly important impacts on the country genre as a whole. And those same fans will trip over themselves trying to make somebody like Mickey Guyton and Maddie & Tae superstars, even though radio doesn't play them. TRUE country fans hear Kelsea Ballerini sing "Ghost In This House" on the Opry, or Cassadee Pope sing "'Til I Can Make It On My Own", and cheer just as loudly as they would if Queen Reba herself had just delivered yet another sassy rendition of "Fancy", even if they don't like their more pop-oriented radio songs, because the respect for female talent is tangible in an atmosphere like the Opry. You will literally never see a group of female artists honoring another female artist's work go over poorly among the majority of country fans, because country fans tend to love the layers of tradition involved in a setting like that. You'll see plenty of comments like, "Reba, Martina, and Miranda are the best people to be honoring Loretta like that", tying together several generations of artists in one blanket statement that shows nothing but decades of respect for female artists from all kinds of backgrounds.
Anyway, my point is, female artists are plenty valued by country fans and the country industry as a whole. So WHO exactly is country radio listening to when they suddenly proclaim that "people don't want to hear female voices"? I have no doubt that their "research" is telling them that, but I am also 100% certain that their research has to be bullshit if that is what it is telling them. Why should powerful female artists like Faith Hill and Shania Twain disappear into thin air around the same time they turn 40, only to have similarly powerful men like Tim McGraw and Kenny Chesney crank out hit after hit well into their mid-50s? Why should somebody like Sara Evans have her radio career decimated after going through a messy but straightforward divorce, while people like Trace Adkins can have messy personal lives filled with domestic violence allegations, alcoholism spells, and divorces, and receive little to no backlash from radio? Why should a brand new radio-friendly song from Reba McEntire get completely ignored by radio, while a brand-new radio-friendly song from George Strait makes it into the top 20? The only thing radio is proving these days is how completely and utterly irrelevant they are becoming. They do not represent what country music fans want from country music.
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tryexp
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Post by tryexp on Jun 8, 2019 4:35:43 GMT -5
These days no one seems to care about Science and facts, because "everyone is entitled to their own opinion" even if that opinion is patently wrong and contradicts basic facts. As someone who works in a STEM field and has worked in academia for a few years a while back I can tell you research can be easily manipulated. So I for one would love to see actual methods for all that radio research that "proves" listeners don't want to hear female artists on the radio. And if anyone has any articles of peer-reviewed-published-in-science-journals articles about female artists and country music I would love to read them. Because I think it's high time someone looks into all these excuses to avoid play female artists and proves to the naive that the only problem with female artists is radio's misogyny.
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Kris
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Post by Kris on Jun 8, 2019 6:38:55 GMT -5
I'm not a massive country radio fanatic but I do keep 2 country stations on rotation in my car, and I worked in an environment where country radio was on for 2 years, every day. Maybe it's just because I prefer more upbeat country music, but apart from a handful of songs in recent years (Good Girl, Road Less Traveled, 90s Mercedes, Yeah Boy) I've found that women's songs are so inexplicably boring (My Church, Every Little Thing as examples). Now, don't get me wrong, for this reason I also don't enjoy Eric Church's or Chris Stapleton's singles as well, and other slow tempo country artists.
So I'm going to have to agree with the above statement where they stated people might want to listen to driving music, and in my experience more uptempo singles come from males, while deeper, meaningful songs come from women which people might prefer to listen to on their own.
But that's just my opinion. I am also not sure just how different radio is here in Canada vs the US, as I understand x% of radio has to be Canadian country artists here.
I'd love to hear the side of someone working in the radio business on this topic though. I'd also like to hear what singles people are offered that may go to a male or female country artist, or are songs generally gender specific?
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jun 11, 2019 6:31:12 GMT -5
Jumping in on bboatâs comment a few posts above this one and maybe this has already been touched on: would the traditional country radio listener be the same as the traditionally Opry viewer? Country music is a culture entirely its own but I see the people who live and breathe country music as being different from the truck driving, beer drinking, backroad country radio listener who listens to the music and loves it but who doesnât bother with much else regarding the culture.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2019 12:34:34 GMT -5
I donât think Iâve ever heard someone describe âMy Churchâ as âinexplicably boring.â
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Post by Wackadoodle on Jun 13, 2019 4:37:49 GMT -5
Trying to stay quiet and listen and reflect lately but a lot of the sexism among the country radio audience is, unfortunately, generational. My mom complains about how she doesn't like hearing women on the radio. I think our generation will be more accepting of female voices and things will change drastically in about ten years.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jun 13, 2019 17:09:08 GMT -5
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toomuchboy
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Post by toomuchboy on Jun 18, 2019 6:22:00 GMT -5
Trying to stay quiet and listen and reflect lately but a lot of the sexism among the country radio audience is, unfortunately, generational. My mom complains about how she doesn't like hearing women on the radio. I think our generation will be more accepting of female voices and things will change drastically in about ten years. Even living in the Bible Belt, I've never heard anyone say they don't like to hear women on the radio. People who are 50+ now apparently didn't have a problem during their 20's and 30's, when women dominated in the 1990s. Tbh, I doubt large numbers of people who are 50+ even still listen to country radio as its become progressively pop lite, but, even if they were, radio (like TV/movies) will always cater more to the young than the old. The truth is it has nothing to do with listeners or different generations, and that's why it won't be any different 10 years from now until the actual cause is corrected.
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Post by travelrocks24 on Jul 22, 2019 18:51:18 GMT -5
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HeyHeyHey
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Post by HeyHeyHey on Jul 22, 2019 20:49:43 GMT -5
20% of this week's top 20 is sung by a woman which is an improvement from when it was none late last year-earlier this year. The 4/20 are Maren, Carrie, Runaway June and now Miranda's new one. Hopefully Miranda can keep up the momentum from week 1 and get a big hit out of her new one.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jan 21, 2020 13:14:50 GMT -5
Figured this was somewhat relevant, especially given the Carrie Underwood thread and what the radio station in Michigan tweeted last week.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jan 23, 2020 10:28:42 GMT -5
Interesting and perhaps profound take...
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jan 27, 2020 17:17:42 GMT -5
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Feb 5, 2020 10:21:49 GMT -5
So I looked at some of the radio stations playlists in a given day and looks like on average female songs (solo, duo, collaborations with male artists, etc) probably get about 15% of the total airtime.
I feel like what country radio could do and this won't alienate listeners or callouts (even if both are flawed), is have female's slowly being played more per day like add 2% each month. By March have it be 17%, and by say December of this year have it be 35% of a playlist in a day has female artists. That way country radio listeners slowly adapt to it and it isn't jarring, because if country radio just decides to make it 50/50 overnight or within a day that is forced as hell and looks incredibly inauthentic to them (even if I would love for country radio to do that).
I don't think my idea is the most optimal way to do it, but it does seem probably the most realistic.
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bboat11
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Post by bboat11 on Feb 5, 2020 14:32:04 GMT -5
So I looked at some of the radio stations playlists in a given day and looks like on average female songs (solo, duo, collaborations with male artists, etc) probably get about 15% of the total airtime. I feel like what country radio could do and this won't alienate listeners or callouts (even if both are flawed), is have female's slowly being played more per day like add 2% each month. By March have it be 17%, and by say December of this year have it be 35% of a playlist in a day has female artists. That way country radio listeners slowly adapt to it and it isn't jarring, because if country radio just decides to make it 50/50 overnight or within a day that is forced as hell and looks incredibly inauthentic to them (even if I would love for country radio to do that). I don't think my idea is the most optimal way to do it, but it does seem probably the most realistic. Unfortunately, I'm not at all convinced that country radio actually WANTS to solve this...
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Post by Sugar Rush on Feb 12, 2020 17:28:49 GMT -5
Just saw a tweet that for the ACMs Carrie Underwood was the only female on the final round of voting for EoTY.
I do not understand how Kacey, Maren and Miranda were not on that final ballot either - when I feel Kacey may have had one of the biggest impact across all genres last year.
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Feb 12, 2020 17:41:52 GMT -5
Just saw a tweet that for the ACMs Carrie Underwood was the only female on the final round of voting for EoTY. I do not understand how Kacey, Maren and Miranda were not on that final ballot either - when I feel Kacey may have had one of the biggest impact across all genres last year. Well since EOTY has turned into a touring award, it makes sense that only Carrie would be on it. Kacey had more impact âacross all genresâ in 2018 (2019 she was overseas or playing smaller venues). Marenâs tour ended too soon and was back to being an opening act while Miranda didnât go back on the road till late summer.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Feb 22, 2020 23:00:03 GMT -5
The country station (WKCQ in Saginaw Michigan) earlier this year that tweeted out how they couldn't play women back to back or within an hour of each other does seem to be doing better as the last hour they played "The Bones", "Baby Girl", "I Hope", and "Suds In The Bucket" within the last hour. That and Friday night they played "Miss Me More" and "Tin Man" right next to each other.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Feb 26, 2020 13:21:46 GMT -5
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Feb 26, 2020 13:27:11 GMT -5
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HeyHeyHey
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Post by HeyHeyHey on Feb 26, 2020 16:52:33 GMT -5
The station I listen to seems to play women all the time and it makes me wonder what radio stations play women more/less than others and if it is worse in some regions or states specifically. Part of me has theories as to where it is worse but it is kinda political and I donât wanna go into that.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Mar 29, 2020 17:21:47 GMT -5
I was listening to American Country Countdown this evening and I kid you not they played "More Hearts Than Mine", "80s Mercedes", "I Hope" and "Southbound" all back to back to each other
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Post by ladyđfan on Mar 29, 2020 17:51:15 GMT -5
At around 1am last night I heard âDrinking Aloneâ and âThe House That Built Meâ back to back
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Mar 29, 2020 18:05:49 GMT -5
Also I was gonna say that right now in the Mediabase Top 20 we have 7 women in the Top 20 (9 in the Top 30) with Gabby Barrett, Ingrid Andress, Gwen Stefani (I know she is not country but she is female), Carly Pearce, Maren Morris, Kelsea Ballerini, and Carrie Underwood.
Is the way country music and country radio treat females and female songs at an acceptable rate or good enough? No. But damn it, it does feel like the tides are really starting to shift in females favor especially with singles from Miranda Lambert, Maddie & Tae, and Ashley McBryde showing real promise despite being below the Top 20.
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Post by mellongraig on Mar 31, 2020 1:30:24 GMT -5
When it was International Women's Day a few weeks ago, the stations that Stingray owned as part of the Real Country/New Country Network, including my local station went all women for most of the day that day, which I'm glad they did in terms of playing the new music but also older favorites as well too.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jun 6, 2020 19:28:34 GMT -5
I am still feeling somewhat optimistic about the future of women in country music at least for right now, as so far this year Maren Morris, Gabby Barrett, and Ingrid Andress all picked up #1s this year, Carly Pearce is about to pick up her second #1 in her career, "Bluebird" by Miranda Lambert is looking to like a good shot for #1, Carrie Underwood is going to peak in the Top 10/15 with "Drinking Alone" and the latest singles from Ashley McBryde and Maddie & Tae are looking to be at least Top 10 singles. Also I would not rule out singles from Lauren Alaina and Tenille Arts having marathon chart runs and peaking in the Top 30 to Top 20. Also looks like Kelsea Ballerini is back on the upswing as it seems like "Hole In The Bottle" is off to a great start.
I still think women are grossly unrepresented in country music, but things are definitely looking up and hopefully more women keep succeeding and their are more female songs on the chart having success,
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recordyear
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Post by recordyear on Jun 18, 2020 10:05:14 GMT -5
An article on AllAccess released today that I think is worth noticing.
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