Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 0:41:30 GMT -5
Iam so sorry guys . I really really wanted to lay. Forgive me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 1:03:36 GMT -5
vote: walker9
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WotUNeed
2x Platinum Member
Deacon Blues
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 2,935
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Post by WotUNeed on May 22, 2016 1:11:54 GMT -5
Finally got around to reading the Tutorial thread. Didn't help me establish much one way or the other with Narwhals, but it did help me understand Albie's play better and is giving me a somewhat town lean for him. If forced to make a call on Narwhals, I guess I'd call him newbtown, but it's not based on any of the substantial content of his posts and more based on the little comments peppering his posts. WotUNeed feels both of these guys have been 'waffling' but I'm not sure I feel the same with regard to LBT - or if I do, I don't know that I think it's more likely to be a scum tell. I suppose I was mainly referring to the post I quoted when I changed my vote; I admit I've liked what I've seen since better than that particular post. I'm spending more time here than I'd intended trying to reread to see if there's anything interesting that I overlooked in the speculative text walls on the previous pages. As it's impossible for anyone else to tell time passing as this page sits open, I've been doing so for about an hour since I started typing this and have nothing to show for it, so at this point, I think we both have our votes sitting on someone because we grasped at anything we could get, both then became dissatisfied with that, and neither is succeeding at finding another angle to take. Is that an accurate summary of your current position? awesomecharts: Your quote messed up and made your post hardish for me to read, but I think you requested I clarify my plan for coordinating town night actions. The short answer is, I'm proposing that we agree that everyone picks one person to target at night, except that person everyone else is targeting would then have to pick a second person to target (since visiting yourself isn't an option). Yea, my info basically so far is that Idk myself who the most suspicious is. Its hard to tell. I have played in plenty of games like this where Town always ends up lynched day 1. Thats why I do not favor day 1 lynchings cause theres higher chance Town gets lynched than Mafia. You don't have a most suspicious; who do you find kind of suspicious? Who do you think would be a bad target for today? What opinion do you have of anyone else in the game or anything that's been discussed thus far? You're replacing in for someone who did nothing; convince me there's a good reason not to axe your slot.
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popstop
6x Platinum Member
Pulse's Summer Intern
Advancing the Mountain Time Zone for all mankind
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Post by popstop on May 22, 2016 1:16:03 GMT -5
walker, I already took that path so you don't have to. Anyhow, I think it would be helpful when you cast your vote to also take the following step and try to think who the linked partner is. I'll admit that I'm starting to tunnel on Max and justifying my vote with everything he does, so I think I need to step back and maybe rethink things. Also: Iam so sorry guys . I really really wanted to lay. Forgive me. I don't think that's a typo people
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 4:44:56 GMT -5
Okay WotUNeed I think I understand it now, But how are we going to determine who to visit? Also since you brought it up, what from the tutorial game makes you think Albie is town while you feel you learned nothing about me? I am going to take popstops suggestions and re-read the thread later today to try to find the most likely scum partners and see if anything jumps out were Someone may have slipped up. Walker9 replacing Libra also threw me for a loop tbh
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 22, 2016 8:05:34 GMT -5
Has Az explained why he was against Cynthia's idea from the getgo and whether he is for Wot's idea?
Just on my phone now catching up. I'll be on my computer later to re-read again and catch up some more.
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 22, 2016 10:28:45 GMT -5
Hi guys - I'm so sorry I was not able to keep up with the thread yesterday while I was out. I got up this morning to catch up and I havenβt gotten much further than Cynthiaβs post and I wonβt until tonight as Iβll be out all day. I will give this another good look tonight though. I am putting some of my thoughts out there on the few things I read and focused on that stood out to me but admittedly I could use a harder look later tonight.
I basically went back to the last several posts on page 4 because thatβs kind of where I left off in the hours while I was writing my last post and worked forward from there.
Kunt, what I meant about you not scum-hunting is that you werenβt really looking into anyone in particular for anyone particular reason as I believe Iβve seen you do in the past but there hasnβt been much to go on so its not like that is your fault. If anything youβve just been trying to answer the many questions that people, myself included, have had. But you have been focused on set up as everyone else has up until recently (your questions) when youβve started calling out certain players β and thatβs more what I meant was missing from you for me. Also @touch, I meant to ask you this earlier: when you responded to Wot re: changing your mind about needing clarity from the mods on the Jailkeeper role you stated you wanted josh to clear up grey areas. But you also said that you personally thought it was pretty clear from the set up notes that the Jailkeeper would die since they donβt prevent the PGO from arming themselves. Ok, but what about that made it clear to you that the arming itself takes effect? That was exactly the piece of information that was missing and which josh later filled in saying that the jailkeeper would stay alive (which Iβm interpreting to mean JK role blocking wins over PGO action) and the arming would be wasted if the Jailkeeper should target armed scum. So Iβm confused on just what was pretty clear to you?
In response to your questions, I am answering these with full knowledge that I'm not 100% caught up on the thread: 1) I would have said Narwhals up until my re-reading this morning and its not that I've dropped that but I've grown a stronger suspicion actually towards LBT. I went back to LBT's long post near the bottom of page 4 and something about it was just off to me. Maybe he sat and went through the thread and then had all these thoughts laid out about things but for some reason I'm getting a bit of coached scum from it. Not enough for an FOS even but within the context of this question, it's enough to make me change what my answer would have been prior to that post.
2) I talked about him earlier in my last post and my opinion remains the same in that he seems town. Sure he hasn't had the longest posts but I think that is a good thing. He seems concise and thorough at the same time and really seems to be pushing to help town however he can.
3) Actual start of question: Who is the most "expendable" member of town?
I will point out that I find it interesting that you used the words βof townβ. Its not like we know who is town and who is isnβt. Unless you know something we donβt?
To answer the question though, I'm going with Max on this one. No offense at all but you made it a point to mention your long weekend and up until this point, I've only seen one post of major substance. This is a very weak answer though as I don't know how much worse Max is doing than say, me or Az for instance.
4) I guess I was having trouble understanding these roles (more further donw) but it would seem that the cop is most useful later on in the game as we narrow the field.
5) Iβm thinking more now towards the beginning of the game to help us try to get further along with more of us than scum until the cop can do some real digging. Devil Marlena Nylund I disagree with your idea that weβd have to do a coordinated visit plan each night following Night 1. I think we could essentially glean quite a bit from the results on N1 with a coordinated visit along with whatever work we do to figure things out on D2. I find that an odd suggestion actually.
Max also asked what would happen if the JK and Cop were to target the same person - not sure if anyone answered this but this question from Max stood out to me. I guess if that person they targeted was scum then the Jailkeeper would role block the scum but would not block the Cop's role right? because that wasn't the JK's target? But if they targeted a compulsive visitor I think the answer then would the Cop's role be blocked? No, I still think not because again that wasn't the JK's target. Thinking out loud here, let me know if I'm missing something?
@antigonerising You give me credit and take it away all in the same paragraph lol. Youβre right, Iβm not a rookie but Iβm certainly not as experienced as 90% of people in this game. Mind you, I donβt believe Iβve been playing the rookie card at all but that doesnβt mean I am not confused by stuff. Iβve never played a game with a cop or jailkeeper role in it for so for a while I was trying to properly understand how those roles work together and how they work against scum. Add to that the JK conversation/circle and I was thrown for a loop. Admittedly, I was trying too hard to compare this to your Identity game because of being open set up as well when I had no business comparing the two. You guys have explained my dumb idea to death β if I donβt think out loud though then how do I know if Iβve got an idea worth looking into or not? I figured I was best I put all my thoughts out there and have you all come back and tell what a dumbass I am rather than stay silent and potentially have something good go to waste or look bad because Iβm not participating.
Finally, I got to think over Wot's plan and it seems that could work well for us as far as mitigating damage to town while being proactive in how we can react to night actions on D2. It seems that most are in favor of this plan as well so, as someone else mentioned earlier, maybe we do vote on it at some point and get that plan going. However, I had the same question as Narwhals as far as Wotβs coordinated visit plan. How will we decide X and Y? I think that's what Narwhals wanted to know and Wot didn't explain that in his answer.
Nothing I've said about is enough to warrant me changing me current vote yet. Again, sorry guys, I'm going to SeaWorld and then a concert so I'm out for the day again but I will be back at night for sure. Surely I'll have a lot of catching up to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 10:56:28 GMT -5
AlbieAgain, you're saying I wasn't scum hunting but then you say I was. To clarify, do you mean I'm not doing it enough for you? Nobody has really pinged my radar yet, but the whole point of me asking questions is to get people to talk so that we have something to analyze, myself included. I think it was you or Max who already grilled me on the setup discussion, which I've already clarified was proving more harmful than helpful when I started it hence why I attempted to kill it. That was my mistake. As for my opinion on the setup notes, I'm not sure why that's relevant since josh already confirmed he hadn't considered how that action would resolve itself. Even I was scum, I wouldn't know conclusively how that resolves itself. Upon reading the setup on mafiascum, though, I thought that the emphasis placed on the gun owner not being prevented from arming themself indicated that their role wasn't intended to be blocked, as there would be no other reason to clarify that. The Jailkeeper inherently roleblocks anyway, so that would have been assumed otherwise. If you think it was some ploy to try to convince josh to place scum in a more advantageous situation, I wouldn't have put it in the thread and instead suggested it to him in a QT or my role PM. As for the wording of my town question... obviously, we want to lynch scum, lmao. I thought it was pretty standard to refer to all active players as "the town" as we don't know who scum is or isn't. Regarding your answers to my questions, I would have preferred you to have answered them after catching up fully, but you answer to number 3 jumps out at me. Why Max over Az, who has been all but virtually absent? Max has at the very least offered some input. Interesting you mention him instead of, say, me, whom you currently have your vote on with no reason to change, as you say.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 10:59:50 GMT -5
Edit: should have proofread. I'm still looking at Az and Nawhals but your post above has me wondering if you and Az may be connected since you're perfectly fine giving him a slap on the wrist, but not Max for whatever reason.
The only town read I have so far is Cynthia. Wot is slight town because of his coordination proposal, but that alone isn't enough for me to say anything one way or the other as its about the only thing of substance he's contributed.
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Albie
Administrator
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Post by Albie on May 22, 2016 11:55:39 GMT -5
Kunt it sounds like I'm belittling your game play and that's not what I'm intending to do at all. In fact, I admire it and tend to take cues from it. I looked at Libra in this way in the last game (which bit us in the ass) and I will admit to following his lead or waiting to hear what he had to say because i felt it was bound to be insightful - that's how I view you and my mistake for waiting on a cue from anyone. I'm working on that and I'm trying to think through things in my own way but I do tend to bounce off of the players I view as most helpful. And at the same time I'm taking the approach of questioning you so that I'm not blinded. Doesn't mean I'm succeeding.
As to Az vs. Max - A) I haven't gotten to Az's post as I stopped at Cynthia more or less. I should have waited until I was all caught up to answer your questions but again I didn't want to not participate for a long time and it would have been nearly 48 hours if I waited until tonight so I thought I'd tackle some of it. Anyway B) I did note my very weak reason for going with Max was simply because he had stated that he was going to have time this weekend and I guess I was expecting more whereas Az I think at some point said he was busy and I figured let's give him some more time and see what he comes up with and then I will look at him for sure. I don't think there's a wrong or right here but I'm telling you why I came up with what I did.
By the way I meant to ask this before but I'm still unclear as to what your vote for AZ is for? I know you mentioned because of Wot's post but I am not following? Especially after you had just fos Max the very post before. and by the way your vote had already been on AZ prior to that so it must be a really strong reason for you to have to make sure that you point out your voting for Az. I think I'm missing the AZ narwhals connection.
Regarding the phrasing of your question, all those reasons that you listed are exactly why I would think you would say something like 'what players' or just 'who' instead of specifically saying 'of town'. To me it comes off as differentiating it from saying something else like "from scum" which no one would ever do. I'm just saying it stood out to me as funny wording and I don't know whether it's just that, funny wording, or more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 12:18:21 GMT -5
No, it's not that I think you're belittling my gameplay (not that you'd be wrong toβI'm honestly not playing a strong game so far). You're not wrong to grill me or anyone, it's just frustrating because I feel like you're zeroing in on me and I'm town lol. That frustration is more with myself, though.
All I'm saying about Max/Az here is that both said they're busy, but Max seems to be giving more of a shit than Az. That's part of why my vote has remained on him. I already stated that my suspicions on Az/Narwhals from that exchange on literally the first page was weak, but it was founded on the fact that Az seemed to jump in quick to defend Narwhals, and something about the exchange struck me as reactionary as opposed to a casual defense of a new player. That said, nothing else has been said to lend credence to that theory so I sort of dropped it; but as Wot pointed out, Az has been pretty much removed from this game but just active enough to appear "present", which strikes me as odd. Moreso than Max, anyway; the FoS on him was only because he didn't appear to be reading thoroughly but he's otherwise been pretty engaged.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 22, 2016 14:42:36 GMT -5
So I was finally able to go back and read through Az's posts. Very minimal. I expect more from him. The lack of content from him in particular definitely makes me suspicious. So here is his original post regarding the Coordination plan: Co-ordinating a visitation plan is also dumb IMO, assuming Cop and Jailer claim Visitor, they're only gonna lie about who they visit, and if that lie gets picked up on, it puts them in a bad position where scum could steer a mislynch of the major powers. Plus we're not accounting for someone being AWOL and not actually sending in a target, which would mean it gets randomized and that would throw off the whole plan (I mean, it's compulsive visitor, which means it will happen regardless). Of course the cop and jailer would claim visitor unless they had something concrete enough to justify revealing their roles. But why would they 'visit' someone other than their assigned target in the scenario? That's kind of what the point of the coordination plan was...? And I don't think the whole AWOL instance is enough of a reason to not go with a plan. If someone is AWOL during a night phase and doesn't do what they should do, they're not playing the game and if they have a role that requires them to do something during a night phase, not doing it makes them a bad player. Why should we have to account for that? I understand we've agreed, for the most part, the Coordination plan isn't our best idea but your reasons against it are weak. I think the Cop would have the most utility never finding scum using their Night action. Provided scum doesn't find them first, the Cop can just pick off Town one by one and narrow the pool of suspects. This idea is even weaker than Az's reasons for why the Coordination idea was bad. The Cop would have to go through at most 7 people in order to narrow down the pool of suspects definitively if they were able to avoid scum. I would think the risk of hitting an armed scum would be worth it rather than waiting it out by aiming for town, especially when you consider a cop isn't going to out himself to avoid a town from being lynched since that would put the bullet on their back for that night phase. Scum only get one chance to arm themselves so they will be strategic about it. All in all, Az's play confuses me because he normally has so much to say. He said he's busy right now so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but if he doesn't give us much more before the end of the day phase... I've read through others too. Narwhals, I get the newbie vibe from him. To answer Kunt's question about him and LCBcountryrocks, neither really jump out much to me. If I was FORCED to choose between the two, Narwhals' newbie vibe would probably get my vote because it's easier to hide behind. At the same time, I almost wouldn't be surprised if both were our scum team because they've been oddly at odds with each other. For now, I'd lean townish for both of them. Popstop hasn't said a ton and his biggest contribution has been to support Cynthia's plan, then support Wot's plan, and suggest a no-lynch for Day 1, which I supported. Now, I think the obvious route to go regarding that is to say a scum would never risk drawing attention to themselves by suggesting a no-lynch for day 1, but popstop is experienced enough to probably know that, so I don't think his suggestion of that necessarily indicates his alignment as town. He could know well enough that most people think scum would do what they can to avoid being seen as scum or making suggestions that could be seen as helping scum. Suggesting a no-lynch is often seen as helping scum, even if it can have its benefits. Popstop also seems comfortable - just my interpretation of his posts, and I realize that probably doesn't make a lot of sense but it does to me. I'm having a null FOS on him right now I think. Albie seems town to me. I'm not particularly familiar with his style of gameplay but he seems pretty dedicated to the game and observing everything. I get a sense if he was scum, he'd be trying to interpret things a little more aggressively than he is. While I'm on him, I'll address this: ] Devil Marlena Nylund I disagree with your idea that weβd have to do a coordinated visit plan each night following Night 1. I think we could essentially glean quite a bit from the results on N1 with a coordinated visit along with whatever work we do to figure things out on D2. I find that an odd suggestion actually. My point with that suggestion was that if we were to coordinate our visits, it was mostly to minimalize loss. If we coordinated on N1 and then just did whatever for N2, the chance to have unnecessary kills as a result of an armed scum was still there if multiple people, for whatever reason, visited the same person without the others knowing it. Of course, this was only under the assumption that nothing concrete was learned on N1. My assumption was that, scum likely wouldn't arm themselves on N1 especially knowing it would give them away. If we kept the coordination plan going, eventually, we'd find them through clues and/or process of elimination (as per every other game) because as soon as they armed themselves during a night phase, they'd be outed based on who was killed. Of course, this is neither here nor there since we have a better suggestion going forward. I've explained my position on Kunt earlier. He's always the hardest read, which makes him both very helpful to town but also dangerous if he's scum. Anyway, I'm curious to know about this: I don't think No Lynch is a good option because all we'd be doing is delaying the inevitable first lynch anyway, but at the expense of one of our players. That's a spin. How is it at the expense of one of our players? Whether or not we have a day kill doesn't effect whether we have a night kill. Not having a day kill doesn't sacrifice a player into being killed during the night. I'm sorry, I just don't understand this line at all. It almost seems like a scare tactic to me. Cynthia I lean town on since she worked out the coordination plan and tried to swing it from multiple angles before eventually dropping it as a bad idea. It could be a scum tactic, mind you, but it would be a pretty elaborate one only to just drop if she were scum. I've read through WotUNeed and nothing in particular jumped out at me, but he also amended the coordination plan, improving it, something I don't see scum doing - unless there's a hole in it that we haven't considered yet? Nothing really on Libra/walker9 at the moment. Regarding the plan I'm dubbing Wot's plan where everyone visits one person (except that person, who can't visit themselves, so they must visit someone else). Have we determined who that will be? Since the cop is involved, and the Jailkeeper will serve as protector for everyone else, we should obviously visit someone who we deem suspicious enough to make the cop's reading useful for us. Deciding this could be tough because, what if many of us want the night visit to be on the player who happens to be the cop, or the jailkeeper? It doesn't harm anyone else but then if the player THEY have to visit is scum, who uses that opportunity to arm themselves, well, the jailkeeper would be safe, but the cop wouldn't be. So if scum decide not to send in a NK, we'd never know. This is an unlikely scenario, of course, but one we need to consider. I'll ask a random question while I'm here. If you were to divide the players in this game into two groups of five, and you had to have both scum players in the same group, where would you place everyone? For example, for my list, I have: Group A Albie Cynthia LBTRocks Max wotUNeed Group B Az Kunt Libra/walker9 Narwhals Popstop At this point in time, I would say both scum members are in Group B.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 14:57:45 GMT -5
Having thought about it, I'm pro Wot's coordination plan. It makes a lot of sense and actually answers my question about when the Cop would see the most utility since it basically guarantees that they can target anyone without fear of being shot since the Jailkeeper would, in turn, also roleblock the gun owner should they choose to arm themselves. That is assuming I understand everything correctly.
The next step is for town to basically decide who our top two most suspicious are, meaning who we want to lynch D1 and who we all want to visit N1.
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 22, 2016 15:01:24 GMT -5
*Confirm the replacement* Just letting you all know I wont be able to be on tomorrow. I will try to see what I can get and say for today. From what I see it seems like we random lynching anyone. Im not really in favor to do that. Ill see what info I can find when night time comes. What? Thatβs not going to be the case. Like Az said, we will try to figure out a lynch target as a group. Thereβs enough content in the thread to at least have some reasons for lynching whoever we do. Its not like thereβs absolutely nothing to go on. Also, you say youβll find what info you can when night time comesβ¦. you mean N1? Thatβs fine and all, but it does nothing to help us on D1. I get that youβre replacing someone so you might have to play catch up, but it would be nice if you could try to find any βinfoβ and share any thoughts you can before the deadline. Yea, my info basically so far is that Idk myself who the most suspicious is. Its hard to tell. I have played in plenty of games like this where Town always ends up lynched day 1. Thats why I do not favor day 1 lynchings cause theres higher chance Town gets lynched than Mafia. What βinfoβ is that? Had you even read the thread when you posted this? And what youβre saying isβ¦ you always think going with No Lynch for D1 is the best moveβ¦? Also, Iβm curious about how much experience you have in playing Mafia and where have you played before? In response to your questions, I am answering these with full knowledge that I'm not 100% caught up on the thread: 1) I would have said Narwhals up until my re-reading this morning and its not that I've dropped that but I've grown a stronger suspicion actually towards LBT. I went back to LBT's long post near the bottom of page 4 and something about it was just off to me. Maybe he sat and went through the thread and then had all these thoughts laid out about things but for some reason I'm getting a bit of coached scum from it. Not enough for an FOS even but within the context of this question, it's enough to make me change what my answer would have been prior to that post. This is strange, because it completely contradicts what you said earlier about me based on that same post. This is what you said during your last analysis: My current thoughts on all players: LTBrocks β leaning town Voted Kunt in RVS for breaking the rules. Voted Albie in RVS because his flavor is Bill Clinton and mine is Bernie Sanders. Voted popstop for suspicion of his d1 no lynch idea and needing further clarity on it. Contributed to the set up discussion re: the PGO v. Jailkeeper convo. Was hurt that popstop didnβt remember playing with him during God Redacted. Had been posting pretty consistently up until today when he mentioned heβd be out of commission until the evening at which time he did return and offered his input on Cynthiaβs plan pointing out that he didnβt like that the plan takes away a playerβs right to choose to do what they want to do which is our only weapon in this game really. I like that he threw the theory out there that the coordination idea was originated by scum β it does help us think about people as being scum instead of assuming town for doing something potentially helpful. Its something that had crossed my mind as well and Iβve tried to look at things from that perspective β mind you, it seems like a stretch, as LBT noted, but its not impossible. You cited specific things I said in that post as reasons why you were getting a town-leaning read on me, but now youβre getting more of a scum read on me from that same post because you suddenly find something about it βoffβ? Thatβsβ¦ interesting. Also, Iβm not sure why you kept pushing the role-claiming thing so hard even after others told you why it wasnβt a good idea, but I donβt like it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:34:36 GMT -5
oh and I never answered these. Well, kinda, but I'll give hard ones here.<br><div class="quote" author="@touch" timestamp="1463807825" source="/post/5704507/thread"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-9123" title="Kunt"><img src="http://storage.proboards.com/1258812/a/f06xMsixYrs8IsweXsVx.jpg" alt="Kunt Avatar"></div></div><div class="quote_header"><a href="/post/5704507/thread"><abbr data-timestamp="1463807825000" title="May 21, 2016 1:17:05 GMT -4" class="time">May 21, 2016 1:17:05 GMT -4</abbr></a> <span itemscope="" itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"><a href="/user/9123" class="user-link user-9123 group-0" itemprop="url" title="@touch"><span itemprop="name">Kunt</span></a></span> said:</div>I'll throw out a question for the sake of it. I'd like as many people to answer as possible, if at all possible.<br><br>β LBTRocks vs Narwhals. Who is more suspicious, and why?<br>β What does everyone think of WotUNeed at the moment?<br>β Who is the most "expendable" member of town? Answer based on what has occurred this game, not "Max always gets confused, so him." (No shade, I'm just assuming Max will answer this himself because he always does when I ask this question lmao)<br>β Where and when do you think the Cop will see the most utility? <br>β Same question as above, but applied to the Jailkeeper now that we know it roleblocks any armed scum.<div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div>β Narwhals. The more LBTRocks posts, the more engaged he appears in discussion. Went ahead and ISO'd them both, and I get the impression that he's trying, and a few things he's said in particular in reference to the Jailkeeper utility/what the fuck it does discussion a while back make me think town. Narwhals doesn't strike me as explicitly scummy either, actually, if only because I don't think scum would volunteer themselves as the most "expendable" player, but he seems less engaged.<br><br>On that note: awesomecharts, do you still have a scum read on popstop? <br><br>β I'm going to go ahead and say Wot is town. That's subject to change on principle because he's a very subtle player, and I still question the amount of content he's provided, but I don't think scum would ever in their right mind suggest a strategy that not only invalidates their night actions, but also strengthens town's. I posed this question in particular because not many people had mentioned him. <br><br>β walker9 by default lol. This has little if anything to do with personal bias, and more to do with the fact that neither he or Libra have done shit.<br><br>β Answered this above basically, but in the scenario Wot provided since, as I understand it, it allows the Cop to operate with the least risk.<br><br>β Same as cop in this scenario. I think the Jailkeeper is going to see the most utility targeting scum as opposed to town, so you know, assuming we do not agree to coordinate our actions (or if we do, we end up having to break that strategy later), it may be a good idea to target those you find suspicious as opposed to trying to protect someone else. Hitting scum could save more lives than one. That's an ideal though since the chances of actually nailing scum are slim if you're just taking a shot in the dark, so this role is best put in the hands of someone who's good at making reads. <br><br>--<br><br>In order from most to least town, placed within their own "tiers". <br><br>Town: Cynthia, WotUNeed, LBTRocks<br>Weak Town: Narwhals<br>Null: walker9, Albie, popstop<br>Weak Scum*: Max<br>Scum: Az<br><br>*To clarify this, I don't think Max is actually all that scummy. The only thing I noticed is that he seems to be taking strange stances and doesn't appear to be reading in-depth. Neither of those are inherently scummy, but they're moreso than anything I've gotten from other players.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:34:46 GMT -5
what the fuck
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:35:38 GMT -5
you know what I don't feel like fixing that right now. I'll get back to you.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 22, 2016 15:44:37 GMT -5
Looks like a billboardfan1 post
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:52:07 GMT -5
oh and I never answered these. Well, kinda, but I'll give hard ones here. β Narwhals. The more LBTRocks posts, the more engaged he appears in discussion. Went ahead and ISO'd them both, and I get the impression that he's trying, and a few things he's said in particular in reference to the Jailkeeper utility/what the f**k it does discussion a while back make me think town. Narwhals doesn't strike me as explicitly scummy either, actually, if only because I don't think scum would volunteer themselves as the most "expendable" player, but he seems less engaged. On that note: awesomecharts, do you still have a scum read on popstop? β I'm going to go ahead and say Wot is town. That's subject to change on principle because he's a very subtle player, and I still question the amount of content he's provided, but I don't think scum would ever in their right mind suggest a strategy that not only invalidates their night actions, but also strengthens town's. I posed this question in particular because not many people had mentioned him. β walker9 by default lol. This has little if anything to do with personal bias, and more to do with the fact that neither he or Libra have done s**t. β Answered this above basically, but in the scenario Wot provided since, as I understand it, it allows the Cop to operate with the least risk. β Same as cop in this scenario. I think the Jailkeeper is going to see the most utility targeting scum as opposed to town, so you know, assuming we do not agree to coordinate our actions(or if we do, we end up having to break that strategy later), it may be a good idea to target those you find suspicious as opposed to trying to protect someone else. Hitting scum could save more lives than one. That's an ideal though since the chances of actually nailing scum are slim if you're just taking a shot in the dark, so this role is best put in the hands of someone who's good at making reads. -- In order from most to least town, placed within their own "tiers". Town: Cynthia, WotUNeed, LBTRocks Weak Town: Narwhals Null: walker9, Albie, popstop Weak Scum*: Max Scum: Az *To clarify this, I don't think Max is actually all that scummy. The only thing I noticed is that he seems to be taking strange stances and doesn't appear to be reading in-depth. Neither of those are inherently scummy, but they're moreso than anything I've gotten from other players.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 16:08:51 GMT -5
Alright so I was re-reading some stuff today, trying to find a connection between my scum reads. I'm still in this process right now. But I have another thought I wanted to address.
I do have a question to ponder: Do we think that the scum team is more likely to be
1. both engaging in the thread a lot and driving discussions 2. trying to avoid saying too much to avoid being analyzed and mostly piggybacking 3. A mix of 1 and 2 with one partner not saying much, piggybacking and another being more engaged.
I believe #3 is the most plausible but I am still pondering what the exactly means with regards to my scum reads. I feel were are probably dealing with an experienced scum team that is covering their tracks well.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 16:38:44 GMT -5
Fuck, I thought I answered Kunt's questions last night - I was going to do it separately from my longer post - but I see now that I must not have submitted that one before I fell asleep. β LBTRocks vs Narwhals. Who is more suspicious, and why? See my last post (feeling slightly town on LBT, null on Narwhals). But as a side note, when I checked last night Narwhals actually had the fourth-most posts in the thread. That might have changed now that we're on a new page but that kind of surprised me b/c it felt like he had posted less. β What does everyone think of WotUNeed at the moment? See my last post (leaning town) β Who is the most "expendable" member of town? Answer based on what has occurred this game, not "Max always gets confused, so him." (No shade, I'm just assuming Max will answer this himself because he always does when I ask this question lmao) Libra/walker by default - as you said it really is just that neither player has given us anything to work with or against yet. After that, Narwhals and Az are the two whose comments have mostly just not jumped out at me much as everyone else. But that could just mean I need to take a closer look at them - I see Az has answered these questions at length (and voted for me ) so at least there's something more to work with there. β Where and when do you think the Cop will see the most utility? N2/D3. Two reads + a few dead bodies gives the Cop a lot to work with. β Same question as above, but applied to the Jailkeeper now that we know it roleblocks any armed scum. Pretty much equally useful for every night that he is in the game, given Wot's plan. As it's impossible for anyone else to tell time passing as this page sits open, I've been doing so for about an hour since I started typing this and have nothing to show for it, so at this point, I think we both have our votes sitting on someone because we grasped at anything we could get, both then became dissatisfied with that, and neither is succeeding at finding another angle to take. Is that an accurate summary of your current position? Yep, that is a pretty accurate summation.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 16:53:03 GMT -5
Alright so I was re-reading some stuff today, trying to find a connection between my scum reads. I'm still in this process right now. But I have another thought I wanted to address. I do have a question to ponder: Do we think that the scum team is more likely to be 1. both engaging in the thread a lot and driving discussions 2. trying to avoid saying too much to avoid being analyzed and mostly piggybacking 3. A mix of 1 and 2 with one partner not saying much, piggybacking and another being more engaged. I believe #3 is the most plausible but I am still pondering what the exactly means with regards to my scum reads. I feel were are probably dealing with an experienced scum team that is covering their tracks well. #3 is a common scum tactic (varying the activity levels of each person on the team) but here is the activity of the thread thus far: 1. Kunt (41) 2. cynthia (18 - this post will make it 19) 3. Albie (16) 4. Narwhals (15) 5. Max (14) 6. Az (13) 6. LBTRocks (13) 8. Popstop (10) 9. WotUNeed (9) 10. Libra/his replacement (6, combined) So the activity is actually not quite as spread out as I was thinking, and the answer seems to be #1 - posting enough that neither of them stands out for inactivity (one might stand out for lack of substance, but that doesn't necessarily mean a person isn't trying). Kunt's way ahead of the pack, but that's par for the course in just about any game.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 16:58:00 GMT -5
Alright so I was re-reading some stuff today, trying to find a connection between my scum reads. I'm still in this process right now. But I have another thought I wanted to address. I do have a question to ponder: Do we think that the scum team is more likely to be 1. both engaging in the thread a lot and driving discussions 2. trying to avoid saying too much to avoid being analyzed and mostly piggybacking 3. A mix of 1 and 2 with one partner not saying much, piggybacking and another being more engaged. I believe #3 is the most plausible but I am still pondering what the exactly means with regards to my scum reads. I feel were are probably dealing with an experienced scum team that is covering their tracks well. #3 is a common scum tactic (varying the activity levels of each person on the team) but here is the activity of the thread thus far: 1. Kunt (41) 2. cynthia (18 - this post will make it 19) 3. Albie (16) 4. Narwhals (15) 5. Max (14) 6. Az (13) 6. LBTRocks (13) 8. Popstop (10) 9. WotUNeed (9) 10. Libra/his replacement (6, combined) So the activity is actually not quite as spread out as I was thinking, and the answer seems to be #1 - posting enough that neither of them stands out for inactivity (one might stand out for lack of substance, but that doesn't necessarily mean a person isn't trying). Kunt's way ahead of the pack, but that's par for the course in just about any game. Caveat to the bolded: don't know what to make of Libra asking for early replacement. That's the only role we can truly consider as being inactive/laying low. Wot and Pop are the posters with the next fewest posts but I don't get the sense that either of them are intentionally lying low. In fact I think I remember pop making a comment that he thought he was contributing but apparently needed to step his game up because so many people had him down as a null read.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 18:23:09 GMT -5
Yes Kunt I do have suspicions on popstop still. I see he is contributing more but the whole no lynch suggestion is still rubbing me the wrong way. But I think I have a stronger read on Albie. His suggestion of role claiming seems rather bizarre to me. I think, along with popstop's no lynch suggestion, these are the two things that stick out to me the most. I'm having a hard time believing that Albie really thought it was a good idea or that he got the idea on his own. I think it was meant to throw off discussion and a distraction. Could this be coached scum? so Vote: Albie on this basis. I did read through all of Rose9's posts and his viewpoints on Albie are kinda odd I think. He says that he would expect Albie to be more aggressive if he was scum? Then before that he mentions he is not familiar with his gameplay style? That's the thing that jumped out to me that most. Albie seems town to me. I'm not particularly familiar with his style of gameplay but he seems pretty dedicated to the game and observing everything. I get a sense if he was scum, he'd be trying to interpret things a little more aggressively than he is. Anyway my reads are: scum: Albie, popstop, Rose null: LBTrocks, Az, cynthia town: Kunt, WotUNeed, walker9 so i guess for Rose9's groups: Group A: walker9 WotUNeed Kunt Cynthia Group B: Albie popstop Rose9 LBTrocks Az I haven't fully dropped suspicions of LBTrocks, I feel like he did contradict himself with his voting of me, but I don't know if that really means he is scummy.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 22, 2016 18:32:46 GMT -5
I meant Albie seems like someone who would be more aggressive based on what I've observed this game, not past gameplay, which I don't remember well enough to comment on. My question for you awesomecharts is: what makes you think walker9 is town - or any alignment for that matter? There's literally nothing to go off of. Putting him as town, especially when you list others as null, is a pretty bold statement to make based on a combined 6 posts (3 for libra, 3 for walker) of nothing. Unless it's something you already know?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 18:44:33 GMT -5
I meant Albie seems like someone who would be more aggressive based on what I've observed this game, not past gameplay, which I don't remember well enough to comment on. My question for you awesomecharts is: what makes you think walker9 is town - or any alignment for that matter? There's literally nothing to go off of. Putting him as town, especially when you list others as null, is a pretty bold statement to make based on a combined 6 posts (3 for libra, 3 for walker) of nothing. Unless it's something you already know? Well I guess from walker9 suggestions we random vote. That's not something I think he would say if he were being a coached scum since he's a Newbie at this. Then again I guess, maybe he was told to say that to throw us off so maybe I need to rethink this. Nothing from Libras post jump out to me one way or. The other.
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Post by WotUNeed on May 22, 2016 18:52:12 GMT -5
Rereading entire thread since I'm not likely to be able to do so tomorrow. I think narwhals was the only one to engage my question from last night. >:( That's actually an interesting point. You have brought up several potential angles or ideas to get discussion rolling, but many players (myself included) seems to have hive-mindedly glossed over all but the easiest of it (like offering opinions on a potential Day 1 No Lynch). I don't know what to make of that. I've tried to look at players as the game day evolves and at least commit something to words. To continue with people I don't think I've said anything directly about: Cynthia - I think I'm willing to give her towncred at this point, though I'm perhaps unreasonably hesitant. Some of her reasoning hasn't connected with my brain 100% of the way, but I guess none of that seems to be motivated by anything sinister. Popstop - If nothing else, he seems to be coming in with unique points of view / attempts to address things. Kunt - He's been vocal, which is not unusual. He's also been... much more passive in his player analysis than I remember him in past games as town. That's not to say that makes him Mafia, but it is something I can't push out of my head, either. That said, I haven't played this game in a while: for those of you have played with him recently, would you say he's being out of character? I think that's everyone I'd not commented on at this point. Continuing to read... Albie seems to have made a point somewhat similar to the one I just raised about Kunt on p.5 when he Albie changed his vote to him. Hmm. 3. Probably me I guess if we had to lynch at this moment but I don't know I guess that's based on me being not as experienced? Could scum be hiding behind going after someone who is not participating well enough/not experienced to appear as town though idk? Is that an easy way to mislead a first lynch? I didn't quote this comment earlier when I made my observation about the weakest of newbtown reads on Narwhals based on commentary instead of content, but this is a good example of what I mean. This is all personally biased interpretation and about a pubic hair's length above not offering a read at all in terms of utility, but stuff like this reads like an apologetic Scorpio who's been trying to get a handle on the game but realizes he's only had so much to offer so far. That kind of attitude can be faked, but eh, for now, I'm going with it. I don't want a text wall and I haven't even worked my way up to the new posts in the thread yet since I posted last time, so I'm cutting this off here and resuming in a new post. Shouldn't be too much left; part of p.5 and all of p.6.
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Post by WotUNeed on May 22, 2016 19:22:12 GMT -5
Speaking of which, we've all indicated we're ok with this plan, so what would be the next step? Is there anyone who isn't on board with it? Probably something that needs to be seriously addressed at this point. If we're doing it, we need 100% commitment and players selected. With time zone differences, schedules varying, and no way to know just when the lynch will solidify tomorrow, we probably need to agree/get targets settled now. As much as I do think it's an idea worth pursuing, time is a bit too tight for it to linger as a distraction from finalizing a lynch target. Okay WotUNeed I think I understand it now, But how are we going to determine who to visit? Shouldn't really matter too much. I kind of like the idea of Player X being someone who generally appears as a town read for people (since that person would have likely drawn targets from visitors anyway), but if people want to use it as an opportunity to suggest X being an unknown quantity, that's fine too. The main idea, as Cynthia pointed out, is that we're doing it in an attempt to limit scum's night options. You admitted to being coached in the game, so it's hard to use that as an example of precedent. Admittedly, I didn't read your Mafia QuickTopic, which might have given me a better baseline for comparison, but eh, I didn't even really think about that until just now and I'm not able to do it at this time. What swayed me toward Albie-town in my observation is that his play style and ideas seem to be stemming directly from Tutorial. The way he's running through his reads on people seems consistent with how he played that game. The way he's generating ideas but also trying to find something/someone in the thread to latch onto seems consistent. His idea about role claiming, while flawed, seems to follow directly from the advice he was given about paying more attention to the setup (specifically, the "Chosen One" element) of Tutorial, and potential bonus points for the fact that he persisted in discussing the potential benefits of role claiming after he got several opinions that were decidedly negative in response to his first inquiry. Max's idea of Group A / Group B is interesting to me. I will consider it, but at this point I don't have an answer to it. Out of curiosity, what brought you to this particular organizational structure, Devil Marlena Nylund? I meant Albie seems like someone who would be more aggressive based on what I've observed this game, not past gameplay, which I don't remember well enough to comment on. My question for you awesomecharts is: what makes you think walker9 is town - or any alignment for that matter? There's literally nothing to go off of. Putting him as town, especially when you list others as null, is a pretty bold statement to make based on a combined 6 posts (3 for libra, 3 for walker) of nothing. Unless it's something you already know? Well I guess from walker9 suggestions we random vote. That's not something I think he would say if he were being a coached scum since he's a Newbie at this. Then again I guess, maybe he was told to say that to throw us off so maybe I need to rethink this. Nothing from Libras post jump out to me one way or. The other. This entire exchange confuses me and I can't decide if I want to make something out of it.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 22, 2016 19:34:56 GMT -5
Max's idea of Group A / Group B is interesting to me. I will consider it, but at this point I don't have an answer to it. Out of curiosity, what brought you to this particular organizational structure, Devil Marlena Nylund? We need to narrow down our choices before the end of Day 1 and if anything, I was hoping everyone could answer the question so we could at least get somewhat of a consensus on who we would select as the player we all visit (if we go with that plan for night phase). I think it would be beneficial for us to target a player many of us think is scum. If the jailkeeper can offer the protection and the cop can determine alignment of that person (player X), we could eliminate that person from the list of scum. Meanwhile, Player X would visit a player (player Y) that most of us agree is most likely to already be town, and therefore unlikely to be armed. If this is confusing for anyone, I could write out an example using names.
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Post by WotUNeed on May 22, 2016 19:47:10 GMT -5
Max's idea of Group A / Group B is interesting to me. I will consider it, but at this point I don't have an answer to it. Out of curiosity, what brought you to this particular organizational structure, Devil Marlena Nylund ? We need to narrow down our choices before the end of Day 1 and if anything, I was hoping everyone could answer the question so we could at least get somewhat of a consensus on who we would select as the player we all visit (if we go with that plan for night phase). I think it would be beneficial for us to target a player many of us think is scum. If the jailkeeper can offer the protection and the cop can determine alignment of that person (player X), we could eliminate that person from the list of scum. Meanwhile, Player X would visit a player (player Y) that most of us agree is most likely to already be town, and therefore unlikely to be armed. If this is confusing for anyone, I could write out an example using names. Ah, I was reading it as a way to arrive at a Day 1 lynch target, but I see now what you're trying to do and it does make some more sense. That said, Player Y should be a throwaway decision, so I wouldn't spend time trying to figure that out. Based on what we know of the setup, as long as we manage to lynch not-the-jailkeeper (and god, even we shouldn't be bad enough to hammer someone without offering a chance for crucial evidence like that to be presented, haha), then N1 under the X-Y strategy would leave these possibilities: -Player X is scum: Player X isn't really going to visit anyone so who cares? -Player X is non-jailkeeper town: Player X will be roleblocked, so an attempt to visit armed scum would fail. -Player X is the jailkeeper: Player X will roleblock even if s/he happens to hit armed scum.
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