WotUNeed
2x Platinum Member
Deacon Blues
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 2,935
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Post by WotUNeed on May 21, 2016 1:23:38 GMT -5
I should probably sleep first and then catch up rather than ending my night with the catch up, but it doesn't look like there's too much to sort through now, so whatever, I'll give it a go. Perhaps there will be a clear answer that will upend everything, but history has traditionally proven otherwise, so I am suggesting it. I'm not sure what you mean by a clear answer, but if you mean something will happen that makes it easy to pinpoint a good lynch target, that's not the nature of the game. But if we feel like we're lacking in shit to analyze D1, giving people a way out of taking action doesn't seem like it addresses that issue. I don't think No Lynch is a good option because all we'd be doing is delaying the inevitable first lynch anyway, but at the expense of one of our players. ... so yeah, basically this. I'll throw out a question for the sake of it. I'd like as many people to answer as possible, if at all possible. – LBTRocks vs Narwhals. Who is more suspicious, and why? – What does everyone think of WotUNeed at the moment? – Who is the most "expendable" member of town? Answer based on what has occurred this game, not "Max always gets confused, so him." (No shade, I'm just assuming Max will answer this himself because he always does when I ask this question lmao) – Where and when do you think the Cop will see the most utility? – Same question as above, but applied to the Jailkeeper now that we know it roleblocks any armed scum. 1) My vote's on LBT because his waffling post rubbed me the wrong way. Narwhals is basically a null for me at this point, but I also have zero current baseline for comparison. 2) I'll let others handle this one. 3) Libra has done quite literally nothing, so his replacement will be inheriting that honor. Beyond that obvious answer... I generally have respected Az's play in past games (despite his play style being more emotionally charged than mine), so I've been somewhat surprised to not have seen much of note from him. Narwhals and LBT are both in the precarious position of coming in, waffling, and leaving. Max has said stuff, but has only one random vote and wishy-washy strategy analysis to his name. While this thread is conveniently short, I'm getting a tired and don't have the energy to ISO anymore since I want to at least address your other Q's / toss out my potential strategy thought before concluding this post, so I guess my summary would be, it's hard to pick a most expendable when a lot of folks, to date, have contributed little. 4) Don't understand the basis for this question. I don't see how the Cop in this setup is much different from a Cop in any other setup. 5) Transitions nicely into why I was pressing the issue of why I wanted to know if Jailkeeper blocked kills from armed scum, and now that we have an answer, I will elaborate on that. I'll move that to its own paragraph though since that's more based on if town chooses to coordinate night actions and less a direct answer to your question. My answer to your question outside of a coordination situation would be similar to my answer for #4: the Jailkeeper role isn't much different than in other setups where a Jailkeeper is present. Anyway, since Jailkeeper blocks armed scum, my suggestion for consideration, if town sees merit in night action coordination on Night 1 (and I probably should have specified earlier that I was only suggesting potential planning for N1, since what if anything would be viable on subsequent nights would depend on what transpired with today's lynch and N1 actions), would be this: -All players (visitors/cop/jailkeeper alike) except Player X: agree to target Player X N1. -Player X: target Player Y N1. The reason I kept saying how JK vs. armed scum resolves itself would dramatically change how good coordination would work is that, if JK didn't block armed kills, this plan would leave open the possibility of the whole town dying N1 if a scum player were the chosen target, which clearly is not a chance worth taking. Since JK blocks the armed kills also, however, this, in my head, would be a good way to mitigate the risk posed by the scum's arming mechanism.
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 21, 2016 1:43:21 GMT -5
Ok but can anyone cite a time when role claiming on d1 put town at any further a disadvantage than we normally have? I haven’t seen a game when we’ve actually lynched scum on d1 (mind you, my history with this game only goes back about a year). What I was trying to get at was that if I think back to Tutorial Mafia which was also open set up and essentially it was pretty clear cut because we knew how many of each type of player there was. There were no power roles in that game with the exception of the Chosen Townie but those people didn’t even know they were Chosen so it was useless to role claim.
But in this case, I was thinking if role claiming could be beneficial if it was actually working in conjunction with the coordinated visits. Of course the mafia has safe claims but there should only be one person saying ‘cop’ and one person saying ‘jailkeeper’ and then I assume everyone else will say Town Compulsive Visitor. At the very least we can remove two people from our suspicions which would be the cop and jailkeeper. I mean, I know this also makes town extra vulnerable but then the visiting plan could actually be put in place with town having an upper hand in that if the cop or the jailkeeper die we’ll know it was whomever they visited. Scum would be too much at risk of outing themselves. So scum would probably not arm themselves as Max and Kunt mentioned, I think. At the same time though, the jailkeeper could protect the cop so the cop wouldn’t be NK’d. If the NK is a regular townie then we will have actually narrowed down our search by one more person though unfortunately it would come at the loss of one townie. But as I’m saying all this I’m realizing that the Jailkeeper could be the NK but I’m not sure whether that would be roleblocked or not. I didn’t want to actually just put this all out there but I think its better that I do just to have it out there in case it makes any sense at all.
Now, to speak to LBTrocks’ point that looking at past games isn’t as helpful as looking at how people are playing currently, well sure - point conceded but this has pretty much been a part of every mafia game I’ve seen recently. It pretty much was the kick off point to leaving RVS in the last game where Cynthia started a similar line of questioning (which popstop addresses in his post where he posed the questions). I’m not saying that this is right or wrong but when all we have to start with is our opinions of people based on absolutely nothing but history – well that’s all it is. Thanks for pointing out that I haven’t actually given my reads on anyone based on this game yet. Neither has anyone else which I find interesting really. I’m a bit surprised, in fact, that folks like Cynthia or Kunt haven’t given us their reads which they aren’t usually shy about. I find it a little concerning that both have been focused more on set- up talk from the get-go where by now I feel like we might have already gotten some sort of run-down of their vibes on people.
Question for Kunt: here you FOS Narwhals. You expressed a weak suspicion and I’m just curious if you’ve since dropped this or not?
All that said, I really do appreciate that Cynthia has been trying to come up with something to help us make some decisions with the coordination system but, again, I am a little disconcerted that this is what her focus has been on when historically she’s so good at instead giving reads on people (with exception of Kunt whom she essentially said she had a null read on. And, again, I’m looking at history and that’s not the best indicator but it’s better that I say it troubles me than that I say nothing at all. And maybe she’s trying a different strategy as far as how to get the ball rolling but I still want to hear more from Cynthia and her thoughts on the players so far.
I also want to hear from Max. Earlier in the day he gave us his thoughts on some of the scenarios with the visiting coordination but he wanted to give that more thought. I’m curious to see what other insight he has on that topic and also curious what your current reads are on people.
My current thoughts on all players: LTBrocks – leaning town Voted Kunt in RVS for breaking the rules. Voted Albie in RVS because his flavor is Bill Clinton and mine is Bernie Sanders. Voted popstop for suspicion of his d1 no lynch idea and needing further clarity on it. Contributed to the set up discussion re: the PGO v. Jailkeeper convo. Was hurt that popstop didn’t remember playing with him during God Redacted. Had been posting pretty consistently up until today when he mentioned he’d be out of commission until the evening at which time he did return and offered his input on Cynthia’s plan pointing out that he didn’t like that the plan takes away a player’s right to choose to do what they want to do which is our only weapon in this game really. I like that he threw the theory out there that the coordination idea was originated by scum – it does help us think about people as being scum instead of assuming town for doing something potentially helpful. Its something that had crossed my mind as well and I’ve tried to look at things from that perspective – mind you, it seems like a stretch, as LBT noted, but its not impossible. WotUNeed – leaning town Voted Libra in RVS, presumably because Libra had been quiet. Voted LBTrocks for pressure. I noticed he took nearly 24 hours from his first post until he posted again the following day, granted it was an RVS 24 hours, so that in and of itself means little to nothing but he then came back to point out how all we’d done was talk about set-up and then of course ate crow soon after (his words, not mine). Was one of the initial supporters of the coordinated visits. I find it interesting that he brought up the coordinated visit thing in a way that it seemed like no one had suggested that yet pulsemusic.proboards.com/post/5703148/thread when in fact Kunt had suggested it the page prior pulsemusic.proboards.com/post/5701473/thread Narwhals – null/weak scum lean Voted Libra in RVS for not being around. Immediately questioned the fact that Kunt was the one to start the flavor claiming which came off as a bit reaching to me – but what else was anyway. Seemed to misunderstand the difference between role claiming and flavor claiming until it was further explained by Az. He also pointed out that Kunt was the one to bring up the coordinated visit thing. I can't tell if he seems scummy and is pushing for Kunt to seem scummy or not. Albie – Town and still the best person you’ll ever meet. Voted Max in RVS because he didn’t have a vote on him at the time. Popstop – null Voted Max near the end of RVS because he hadn’t voted for anyone yet and Max brought the PGO v. Jailkeeper talk back up. Flavor claimed and then took well over a day to come back with posing a question about people’s strengths/weaknesses in an attempt to move convo (again, super RVS stage). Continues to be a proponent of coordinated visits, specifically Cynthia’s plan. Suggested a possible no lynch for D1. A little defensive on criticism of his thought on D1 no lynch. Cynthia – leaning Town Voted Cynthia in RVS. Voted popstop for inciting thirst. Voted Az following Kunt's vote on him. One of the initiators of the PGO v. Jailkeeper convo and heavily entertained it. Briefly mentioned the thought of coordinated visits in agreement with Kunt’s intial suggestion only to come back later with a full blow plan. I feel like she really thought it out a lot – maybe too much to be scum trying to lead us on. **note something about Kunt and Cynthia jumping on that random comment of Az’s and them both placing their vote on him doesn’t sit right with me. Az – null Voted Albie in RVS for being Bernie. Voted popstop because pressure. Voted Libra because pressure (got called out on this by Kunt and jumped on by Cynthia soon after).Seems to be helping out newbies (ie flavor v role etc). Speculated on the PGO v. Jailkeeper scenarios. Is against role-claiming now. Is also against coordinated visits. His posts have been a little too few and far between and not of super substance but not specifically defensive or scummy so I’m not feeling too strongly one way or the other about him. Kunt – null/leaning scum-ish Voted Cynthia in RVS. Voted narwhals for reaching in RVS. Voted WotUNeed for insubstantial posting. Voted Az for seeming scummy. I’ve covered his actions in most everyone else’s sections actually. By far has been the most active in terms of number of posts and content in some ways too. But I’m having trouble with some of the topics he’s started – they are getting the conversation going but then not really based on scum-finding which should be the priority. Granted, no one has really been scum-finding but if anyone would, I’d expect it to be him and he hasn’t yet. He does mention that we are focusing too much on night phase and not on day phase but didn’t then really any input to that point. This is a super weak vibe but I’m just putting my current feelings down on paper. Libra – stopped typing what I was typing because its pointless now that he’s on his way out. Max – null/weak town read Voted Az in RVS (Note that it took him nearly 24 hours to come back and do anything else). Also heavily contributed to the PGO v. Jailkeeper discussion even if a rehash. Has a long weekend coming up so I’m keeping my eye on him over the next few days. Contributed to the coordinated visit discussion which he seems to support unless there is a better plan. Kind of placing max in the same boat as Az for now where I don’t feel too strongly about anything he’s done.
All that in mind, my current vote is on Max and that's purely an RVS vote so Unvote: Max but I don't want to not have a vote down so I'm going to Vote: Kunt based on my thoughts above but this is by no means a strong vote or lean. I've put my thoughts out there and hoping to hear from everyone else.
Finally, just to address the coordinated visits once more, I like LBT’s idea of maybe putting it to a vote at some point – maybe Sunday or early Monday if it comes down to it and seeing if people want to go with that or not. It may be that other things develop before then but it’s a good thought to have in the back of our minds.
NOTE: I won't be on a computer at all tomorrow as I'll be at Six Flags all day so I'm only on mobile which will limit my posting but I'll be checking in as often as I can.
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 21, 2016 1:46:20 GMT -5
oh crap. ok I kept trying to check into the thread for any updates while I was typing all that out but hadn't gotten to your questions Kunt. I kind of go into some of those questions in my post, but otherwise I will try to answer tomorrow. I have to get to bed now and I'll be out at the park all day tomorrow so I'll answer them on mobile how I can. I'll be waiting in line a lot anyway lol.
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popstop
6x Platinum Member
Pulse's Summer Intern
Advancing the Mountain Time Zone for all mankind
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Post by popstop on May 21, 2016 2:31:53 GMT -5
I'll explain, but then I'm dropping this because I like Wot's plan. My idea wasn't about giving people an out or conceding - it was about playing the numbers when our chance of mislynching is already quite high. Considering Cynthia's plan, I felt this would be a way to guarantee we wouldn't have MYLO on D2.
Anyhow all moot. If we don't mislynch the JK D1, Wot's plan limits loss in a way that Cynthia's doesn't (as long as people submit their night actions or don't go rogue.) I'm in.
For Kunt:
1) They've both primarily discussed set-up, so it's hard to declaratively say anything about either of them. LBT's last post feels a bit belabored, but that could just be the OMGUS in me. I think it's more him wanting to participate, but having difficulty constructing ideas from what's been presented so far. 2) Hmm, my answer would have been different until the post above -I see him providing more advice and strategy than evidence of scum hunting, though the game is still young. 3) Piggybacking on what Wot wrote - for those who haven't contributed much, I would then default to past participation. Narwhals hasn't really said much at all other than to clarify the game, so he might be my first choice. I might also consider Max, simply based on what I said earlier - that he tends to stay in the background and make tentative comments. 4) I'm not sure what you mean by where a cop is most useful (tied to my bed in handcuffs - ba-dum-bum), but a cop's utility grows exponentially as the scum/town ratio decreases. If we can lynch one of the mafia and cop/JK survive, then we can follow the cop to the other one. 5) Same as #4
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 21, 2016 6:12:48 GMT -5
Popstop’s reaction to my post in which I voted for him seemed pretty defensive, but the more I thought about it, the one reservation I have with labelling popstop’s No Lynch suggestion as scummy is the fact that I have a hard time believing he would suggest a No Lynch on D1 if he is actually scum. He’s experienced enough to know doing so might result in him attracting unwanted suspicion, which is something scum usually does their best to avoid. He’s abandoned the idea now anyway. So while its something I’ll keep in mind going forward, I’ll Unvote: popstop for now. I'll throw out a question for the sake of it. I'd like as many people to answer as possible, if at all possible. – LBTRocks vs Narwhals. Who is more suspicious, and why? – What does everyone think of WotUNeed at the moment? – Who is the most "expendable" member of town? Answer based on what has occurred this game, not "Max always gets confused, so him." (No shade, I'm just assuming Max will answer this himself because he always does when I ask this question lmao) – Where and when do you think the Cop will see the most utility? – Same question as above, but applied to the Jailkeeper now that we know it roleblocks any armed scum. 1. Obviously I can’t really answer this lol, but as far as Narwhals goes, pretty much his whole existence in this game has been asking questions about the game and every now and then piggybacking off of things others have said. He really hasn’t been very active and hasn’t really offered anything of true value. I mean, I know I’m not the poster child for optimal contributing this game, but I’d like to think that I have at least been a little more helpful than Narwhals has lol. I have to wonder if he's maybe trying to hide the fact that he's scum by playing the confused newbie card. 2. I ISO’d Wot’s post and I think he has been pretty consistent thus far and has made good points. Seems to be suggesting things that will help town. He did admit at one point that he contradicted himself on his views about discussing the game’s setup/mechanics. And he was persistent in getting the mods to confirm one way or the other about how the Jailkeeper vs PGO thing would work, and based on their decision he devised a coordinated plan that, if we decided to go the coordinated route, I’d probably be down to follow. So Wot is definitely more town leaning for me right now. 3. Well, aside from Libra, which is kind of moot now since he asked for a replacement, I’d say Narwhals for reasons I stated in #1. He’s asked questions, which could be just because he's a newer player, but its also something that he could easily hide behind if he’s scum. He could still be using his newness as a way to divert people's attention from the fact that he's scum. Since he was scum his first game, he could say he’s asking all theses questions because this is his first time playing town. Also, he wouldn’t want to make people think he's being coached by a scum partner, which is something that could easily still be happening in the QT considering this is only his second time playing. The fact that he hasn't really contributed anything useful makes me even more suspicious. Based on everything I said here and in #1, I’m going to Vote: Narwhals. 4. In this setup the Cop would be most useful if he targets a scum member and doesn’t die lol. Whether that be because the scum member didn’t arm himself/herself, or if the arming was blocked by the Jailkeeper, or if the Jailkeeper protected the Cop. So essentially the Cop needs to target a scum member and live to tell the tale, which i think is the same for most games. 5. Well, I think the Jailkeeper’s role is definitely stronger now and I think it definitely changes strategy on their part. Now that it’s known that they block armed scum, they won’t be as afraid to focus on targeting scum. If it was decided that an armed scum would kill the Jailkeeper if the Jailkeeper visited them, the Jailkeeper would probably want to avoid targeting players they suspect are scum for fear of dying. That’s one of the reasons why it wasn’t sitting right with me at all that that hadn’t been decided one way or the other. It really does make a huge difference in terms of strategy. And with coordination too, as Wot pointed out. Of course if we go with Wot’s coordinated plan, the Jailkeeper’s target will be chosen for him if he goes along with it, so I guess a lot of what I said here wouldn’t be extremely relevant.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 7:42:58 GMT -5
Okay I see we are starting to get somewhere since last night - I don't have the time right now to make as an informed post I would like but here's some thoughts:
I was trying my best to understand this setup at the onset of the game but I know I need to start offering something more significant now. Re: Kunts question: 1. Ok regarding LBTrocks post above, I will say I was genuinely confused about some of the setups especially the night actions so I wasn't trying to hide behind that. Maybe I should have asked more questions in my role PM. I know I need to be more active. 2. WotUNeed has been helpful and informed in his posts. He seems to be pretty observant when he does post. I seem him being pretty valuable so far. 3. Probably me I guess if we had to lynch at this moment but I don't know I guess that's based on me being not as experienced? Could scum be hiding behind going after someone who is not participating well enough/not experienced to appear as town though idk? Is that an easy way to mislead a first lynch?
Ok that's all I have time for now. Sorry. I'll have more thoughts on the rest later today.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 21, 2016 8:17:03 GMT -5
Anyway, much as I appreciate the willingness to help the Jailkeeper understand their role, they can probably just PM a mod about it. I'm not entirely sure how much this matters to anyone else right now. This post was odd to me since it was mere minutes after he asked the mods for clarification on the role. I understand not wanting to tunnel the entire thread and everyone's frame-of-mind into one discussion, but this attempt to shut down the conversation left a sour taste for me. It's day 1, any discussion is good discussion because the more people say, the more of a read we can hopefully get on them. This was something that was getting people talking. And (as we later realized), how the jailkeeper's role works in relation to the scum team does matter so... Based on the way the role PMs were written in the linked wiki of this game type, it seems pretty clear which actions resolve themselves when, but of course, our own fair mods could have altered the PMs to suit their own needs and have whatever discretion they like and have admitted to holding onto that prerogative, so I think we can all safely stop worrying about the mechanics now, yeah? Wot says kind of the same thing. volte: WotUNeedTotally not an OMGUS ego thing lol because I don't technically disagree with you basically expanding on something I already said, but what would you have us talk about, then? First post in 24 hours and it's not a lot. At least the circle-jerking about the setup is something. Kunt calls him out on it, complete with an OMGUS vote. But still, he made it a point to call him out on something he himself suggested less than half a page earlier. Wut indeed. And Matt as town - his heart in the right place, but he tends to direct his focus on one theory too long and doesn't consider different angles. Matt=Kunt, so Popstop points this out, which is really just his observation (which I've seen others point out in previous games), so it isn't a tell for anything but something to consider. Kunt does tend to stick on one point for too long. In this case, he's not. P.S. Also, when are you going to stop being Rose? Excuse you?! I'm commenting as I read through the thread. So I'm going to comment some more on the original Coordination plan that we were considering, knowing that I think we've since moved on from that? So, other things to consider if we went that route: -What if the two scums are alphabetically side-by-side? If we WERE to go this route, I would also suggest changing the order each day. -I did say if we did go this route, we'd have to stick with it for the duration of the game. Otherwise, it's pointless to commit to it for N1 only to not do it any other night, thereby leaving the scum to no arm themselves on N1 and save it for later. Here's the thing, and Devil Marlena Nylund should probably consider this as well: scum can also use this situation to their advantage and ultimately wreak havoc, as Wot put it. If scum knows Narwhals is visiting popstop, and Albie is visiting Az (still assuming popstop is scum in this scenario), then popstop can arm himself so that Narwhals dies, but he could also submit a kill so that Albie is nightkilled. He and his partner can then propose that Az, who is innocent in this scenario, is guilty of arming himself (and Albies's death), but Narwhals was killed via factional kill. This assumes that town won't know who died as a result of what, which is consistent with most games. That, and we have to account for Jailkeeper protection which could make an armed kill look like a nightkill should only one show up at daystart. I'm personally against the coordination because it creates wall of "what-if" scenarios that scum can just hide behind without actually being proactive. "I'm not sure if we can conclusively say X was killed because he was nightkilled, or he visited someone who was armed..." The posts write themselves, or am I just missing something? Either way, I'm willing to cooperate if the consensus is mostly positive regarding this plan of action, but again: I'm not for this. I acknowledged the bold earlier but want to again. Is it consistent with most games? If we don't know how the kill happens, then I do agree, the coordination plan has its flaw. But at the same time, it could narrow the playing field. So using your example, Popstop is scum who doesn't arm himself, so Narwhals is alive, but Albie is NKed to try to throw us off, in an attempt to frame Az. Would that be the only kill that night? If so, we'd likely assume Albie's NK was standard - (and it was, though making that assumption is problematic in the event that scum decide not to NK for that night phase). I'm just thinking out loud here. I think the worst case scenario of going with the Coordination plan is if scum actually never used their NK on a night when they arm themselves, thereby ensuring there's only ever one NK per night, and going by the assumption that we don't know how a kill is made (whether by regular NK or by armed scum), then this would cover their tracks. Of course, the risk in this is the same risk that goes with any game. There's 2 scum and 8 town. Unless they took out the Cop or the Jailkeeper, the odds are still against them. It's when a NK is used WITH an armed-scum situation that I think helps us*. Using the example above again, Let's say Popstop DOES arm himself, and his scum partner doesn't. Both Narwhals and Albie are killed. That leaves us to choose definitively between either Popstop or Az as the scum. * as long as we have the numbers...! I also don’t like how it essentially takes away a player’s choice to do what he/she thinks is best at the time. For example, if I think Libra is scum, I still have to visit him anyway if I follow through on the coordination plan as agreed. The compulsive visitor, by nature of the role, would want to target someone they believe to be town in order to avoid the possibility of being shot and killed. Also, let’s say the Jailkeeper targets Libra or me, thus protecting me from getting killed. There’s no way myself (or any other townie in the game) would know that that is what happened unless the Jailkeeper admits to it the next day, which they likely wont do, and we could therefore come to the wrong conclusion that Libra isn’t scum and/or didn’t arm himself, therefore I’m still alive. So like I said earlier today, I thought the coordinated visits were a good idea on paper, but it is variables like this that make me question just how useful for town this pre-determined visiting will really be. In theory, the jailkeeper (and the cop) would follow the chain and 'visit' the person next in line. And for the most controversial discussion point: I'm wondering if no lynch would be a good option for D1. I know normally that's a terrible plan, but I think this set-up gives us a lot more data on D2 than normal. Not to mention I don't think I've ever played a (completed) game where mafia was lynched D1. I'm going to borrow from the book of Libra and Kunt when I say this but: I......don't think that's a terrible idea. (see what I did there? :kii: ) Unless we get lucky, on day 1 we do almost always take out a scum member. This game setup is different than most and the longer it takes us to identify scum, the more powerful they become. Obviously, not killing someone on Day 1 is bad but I don't think it's unwise to at least consider the possibility that, unless we're confident enough in who we lynch, it might not be terrible to just not? The only thing we really learn with a D1 kill is... that person isn't scum. Unless it's a situation where someone attracts suspicion from a bunch of players, a lynch on day 1 is probably not something that needs to be forced. Anyway, I'm at least entertaining the thought. This is, of course, under the assumption that something more concrete doesn't come up...! Obviously, I'd rather have a lynch on Day 1 if it means finding out for certain whether a suspicious player is town or scum, but as of right now, nobody is jumping out enough for me yet. I don't think No Lynch is a good option because all we'd be doing is delaying the inevitable first lynch anyway, but at the expense of one of our players. That's a spin. How is it at the expense of one of our players? Whether or not we have a day kill doesn't effect whether we have a night kill. Not having a day kill doesn't sacrifice a player into being killed during the night. I'm sorry, I just don't understand this line at all. It almost seems like a scare tactic to me. Popstop, I get what you're saying about not giving mafia ideas, but I think that boils down to differences in playstyle. Having an informed town who respects the mafia is more important to me than not giving them any ideas. If you and I thought of it, then nothing is stopping them from doing so either. Putting it out there for everyone to keep in mind going forward is more important to me than running the risk of it actually happening and everyone scrambling, which is so often the case when unexpected day starts occur. This I agree with. My thoughts are, if I can think of it, chances are scum can too (unless both scum players are newer, in which case oops), but at the very least, if we voice our thoughts, at least they know we're aware of the potential idea. It's possible voicing ideas for scum could actually give them ideas, but then I also feel like.... is it more helpful to give them ideas while ALSO informing every other player of that potential idea, or is it better to have the idea, not share it under hope scum doesn't think of it either. I'm not sure what you mean by a clear answer, but if you mean something will happen that makes it easy to pinpoint a good lynch target, that's not the nature of the game. But if we feel like we're lacking in s**t to analyze D1, giving people a way out of taking action doesn't seem like it addresses that issue. This is a fair point - if we choose to see it that way. Action will still happen during the night phase though. And now, Kunt's Qs: – LBTRocks vs Narwhals. Who is more suspicious, and why?Why these two? You always pick two players and I always grill you over why you chose two players for us to focus on, thereby leading into the same discussion of me accusing you of pointing everyone in one direction. lol. So, going past that to the question: I haven't looked at either in depth at all and nothing they've said in passing has made me note it. – What does everyone think of WotUNeed at the moment?He doesn't seem particularly active. I seem to remember he wasn't overly active last game I played with him too, and I thought that was strange. But I forget what game it was and I forget where he ended up aligning so that's useless. I wouldn't say his lack of activity is troublesome at this point though. I think he tends to pack a whole bunch of stuff into fewer posts. – Who is the most "expendable" member of town? Answer based on what has occurred this game, not "Max always gets confused, so him." (No shade, I'm just assuming Max will answer this himself because he always does when I ask this question lmao)Rude. I guess at this point, Libra, though he's asked for a replacement. If you're asking this to try to sway us away from the no-lynch option though.... in this setup, there is power in numbers so I don't think anyone is "expendable." – Where and when do you think the Cop will see the most utility?If we go with Cynthia's Coordination method, the cop would be useful every night obviously. The downside is, if the Jailkeeper visits the Cop, then the cop is rendered useless that night. – Same question as above, but applied to the Jailkeeper now that we know it roleblocks any armed scum.It roleblocks scum (armed or not), which is gooooood. It roleblocks cop, which is bad. What happens if jailkeeper and cop visited the same person? Does the cop still get a reading? If so, Wot's plan of having everyone except Person X visit Person X, because the Jailkeeper would protect the town in the event Person X is armed scum. Then the cop would get a for sure reading. Ok, and that catches me up. I want to hear more from Az because on games he plays, he seems to know it all and have all the good and bad moves down pat, so surely he must know by now who we should be targeting. Anyway, I'm going to lay a vote down on Kunt because of everyone else, he's the one who kept popping up during my read-throughs with strange minor things which I mentioned above. Vote: Kunt
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 21, 2016 8:19:29 GMT -5
That should read above: "on day 1, we almost always take out a town member."
But that should be obvious.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 12:56:20 GMT -5
3) Libra has done quite literally nothing, so his replacement will be inheriting that honor. Beyond that obvious answer... I generally have respected Az's play in past games (despite his play style being more emotionally charged than mine), so I've been somewhat surprised to not have seen much of note from him. Narwhals and LBT are both in the precarious position of coming in, waffling, and leaving. Max has said stuff, but has only one random vote and wishy-washy strategy analysis to his name. While this thread is conveniently short, I'm getting a tired and don't have the energy to ISO anymore since I want to at least address your other Q's / toss out my potential strategy thought before concluding this post, so I guess my summary would be, it's hard to pick a most expendable when a lot of folks, to date, have contributed little. 4) Don't understand the basis for this question. I don't see how the Cop in this setup is much different from a Cop in any other setup. Only pulling 3, 4, and 5 from these because I like these answers and want to add to them myself. For 3, I would agree with Libra/his replacement being the most expendable by default, but your point about Az is worth highlighting because he's been around enough to, at the very least, acknowledge discussions happening around him. He hasn't even done that much. Regarding my question about the Cop, I pose the question because in most situations the Cop doesn't have to worry about getting hard-punished for doing his job and correctly investigating scum. Here, he could die for it. I'll have to review your answer to five, because I didn't hate it at first glance. The Jailkeeper cockblocking armed scum definitely changes things in reference to the coordinated visits idea, but I'm not sure how much. Ok but can anyone cite a time when role claiming on d1 put town at any further a disadvantage than we normally have? I haven’t seen a game when we’ve actually lynched scum on d1 (mind you, my history with this game only goes back about a year). The problem with role-claiming is that scum would immediately know to take out the Cop through nightkill. This assumes the Jailkeeper does not protect the Cop, but why would the Jailkeeper do that if that would just roleblock the cop anyway? There have been games when Vanilla townies have role-claimed D1 (Invince), or players who were put at L1 and ended up role claiming... basically, it gives scum the last remaining pieces of the puzzle. Town is only afforded so many secrets, and your role is one of them. I also think we need to wholly ditch this "we always mislynch D1" mentality. This isn't uncommon of most mafia games, even on experienced forums, unless the setup is intentionally designed to mitigate that (such as tutorial mafia games; although even those have room for error). Basically, what I'm getting at is we really need to stop circlejerking about variables that do not concern this specific game, such as "player did X in Y mafia, so we should consider A in B mafia". This line of thinking has fucked town over more times than I can count. Frankly the only reason they won so much last "season" was because the setups were either imbalanced in town's favor to compensate their general lack of focus, or straight up broken. Question for Kunt: here you FOS Narwhals. You expressed a weak suspicion and I’m just curious if you’ve since dropped this or not? I haven't. Never saw a defense for this from either him or Az, and I haven't gotten a hard read on his gameplay thus far because he's just been sitting back and letting everyone else talk it out. That doesn't immediately stick out to me as suspicious, but he's not on my good side. Kunt – null/leaning scum-ish Voted Cynthia in RVS. Voted narwhals for reaching in RVS. Voted WotUNeed for insubstantial posting. Voted Az for seeming scummy. I’ve covered his actions in most everyone else’s sections actually. By far has been the most active in terms of number of posts and content in some ways too. But I’m having trouble with some of the topics he’s started – they are getting the conversation going but then not really based on scum-finding which should be the priority. Granted, no one has really been scum-finding but if anyone would, I’d expect it to be him and he hasn’t yet. He does mention that we are focusing too much on night phase and not on day phase but didn’t then really any input to that point. This is a super weak vibe but I’m just putting my current feelings down on paper. I'll be the first to admit that a lot of the points of discussion I've started haven't lead to much of anything yet (and, in some cases, proved little more than distracting), which is my own fault; but what I'm not sure how that isn't "scum-finding" enough for you or what you expect of me. It's not anymore beneficial to surmise someone is scum without them having said anything to go off of. You also listed like three instances where I actually was scum-hunting, or trying, so...? Anyway, much as I appreciate the willingness to help the Jailkeeper understand their role, they can probably just PM a mod about it. I'm not entirely sure how much this matters to anyone else right now. This post was odd to me since it was mere minutes after he asked the mods for clarification on the role. I understand not wanting to tunnel the entire thread and everyone's frame-of-mind into one discussion, but this attempt to shut down the conversation left a sour taste for me. It's day 1, any discussion is good discussion because the more people say, the more of a read we can hopefully get on them. This was something that was getting people talking. And (as we later realized), how the jailkeeper's role works in relation to the scum team does matter so... Based on the way the role PMs were written in the linked wiki of this game type, it seems pretty clear which actions resolve themselves when, but of course, our own fair mods could have altered the PMs to suit their own needs and have whatever discretion they like and have admitted to holding onto that prerogative, so I think we can all safely stop worrying about the mechanics now, yeah? Wot says kind of the same thing. volte: WotUNeedTotally not an OMGUS ego thing lol because I don't technically disagree with you basically expanding on something I already said, but what would you have us talk about, then? First post in 24 hours and it's not a lot. At least the circle-jerking about the setup is something. Kunt calls him out on it, complete with an OMGUS vote. But still, he made it a point to call him out on something he himself suggested less than half a page earlier. Wut indeed. Anyway, I'm going to lay a vote down on Kunt because of everyone else, he's the one who kept popping up during my read-throughs with strange minor things which I mentioned above. Vote: KuntYour first point is totally out of context. At the time I posted that, everyone was trying to figure out what the Jailkeeper did, so I asked the mod to clarify specifically so people would stop talking about it. Like you said, it was an attempt to get discussion going, but it wasn't headed in a particularly fruitful direction that would tell town anything. Your second point is just flat out wrong. I can't tell f you're making a joke about it being an OMGUS vote or not, but to clarify in case you're serious, it was not. I voted for Wot because, coming from someone who has said next to nothing until that point in the game, he just kind of repeats what I'd already said but offers nothing to promote more beneficial discussion. Neither did I, I guess, but I like to think I'd been active enough to warrant passing the baton. The vote was cast on grounds of parroting, and I felt further justified in that he offered little else shy of that. But, yeah, I'm not surprised my posts have left the most head-scratchers. For one, I'm not a particularly excellent player, so that's probably why; for another, I also have the most posts in this thread, so you'll run into my nonsense more often, lol. -- FoS: Max on principle because in your response to the first question you basically admit that you aren't reading the thread in depth, lol. To answer your question RE: why I ask what I ask, it's less about the question and more about the answers, but Narwhals and LBTRocks but fall in the "newish and confused" territory.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 12:57:42 GMT -5
Vote: Az, actually, based on the above/what Wot said.
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Post by josh on May 21, 2016 14:14:33 GMT -5
It is Day 1.
Deadline has been set for 05/23/2016 at 11:59:59 PM ET.
It takes 6/10 votes to lynch!
Day 1 Vote Count 6:
Az: Kunt, Cynthia Kunt: Albie, Max LBTRocks: WotUNeed Libra: Narwhals, Az Max: Popstop Narwhals: LBTrocks
Not Voting: Libra
#Mod: Working on Libra's replacement.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 18:36:43 GMT -5
Albie: null/weak scum
He brought up role claiming, and continued to search for confirmation in the thread that it could be a good idea. It seems on the surface that that would not be something scum would deliberately do. However he has said how inexperienced he is so maybe he is hiding behind that fact to appear town? Like no one would expect him to say that if he were scum so that's exactly what he suggested. I'm not sure. His analysis was pretty through as well so I do know he's reading the thread well and not asleep like some other town players are currently.
Kunt: weak town
I'm having a hard time reading him. He's been the most active player and changed his votes the most as well but he seems to have a justified reason for each of his votes. He has also been the most defensive player I believe especially in his posts toward Albie and Rose:
But he has been kinda all over the place at times especially with him switching to vote Az after FOSing Rose. I suspect he's town but it's not a very strong read; i Dont know if he would be this active if he were scum?
cynthia: null
She piggybacked Kunt's vote on Az, which seemed a bit odd. She explained a way to do the coordinated visits and explained the pros and cons of certain scenarios. She said she would come back to focus on who to lynch after admitting she was focused too much on the night actions. She hasn't done so yet so I guess we'll hopefully learn more about her once that occurs?
popstop: null/weak scum
He seems eager for people to participate, but has he offered much himself yet? He suggested a no lynch as a possibility (Maybe he should spend more effort in trying to find someone to lynch instead? Idk. seems odd. ) but what else besides piggybacking on others thoughts?
WotUNeed: weak town
i already stated above how he has been rather helpful
but okay maybe I'm just brain dead right now but can you explain what this means??
May 21, 2016 2:23:38 GMT -4 WotUNeed said:
-All players (visitors/cop/jailkeeper alike) except Player X: agree to target Player X N1.
-Player X: target Player Y N1.
The reason I kept saying how JK vs. armed scum resolves itself would dramatically change how good coordination would work is that, if JK didn't block armed kills, this plan would leave open the possibility of the whole town dying N1 if a scum player were the chosen target, which clearly is not a chance worth taking. Since JK blocks the armed kills also, however, this, in my head, would be a good way to mitigate the risk posed by the scum's arming mechanism.
Az: null/weak town
I really haven't seen enough from him to steer one way or the other. I feel like some others have said he has been noticeably absent so far and I do agree. He points out to popstop and votes him that he hasn't been around. Now the same goes for him.. I think he makes a good point here though regarding the increased chance of the town power roles being outed with the coordinated visiting plan:
LBTrocks: weak scum
I feel like part of his argument to vote me is rather weak and partly based on a previous game,
Because here he says:
And now he is using it here to vote me:
but I guess on the other if he feels I haven't been contributing then I guess it's a valid suspicion?
I'm trying to Change that now :) Anyway my vote for Libra really isn't helpful at the moment until we get a replacement so i am going to
Vote: LBTrocks for the above reason.
Rose: null
Admittedly, i havent had the time yet to fully investigate his last few long posts. I'll hope to have more on him soon when i'm thinking more clearly.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 18:38:41 GMT -5
i hit reply before I could add something at the beginning to explain but these are my thoughts on everyone so far. I still can't get the multiple quotes thing to work though :/
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 21, 2016 19:47:42 GMT -5
LBTrocks: weak scumI feel like part of his argument to vote me is rather weak and partly based on a previous game, Because here he says: And now he is using it here to vote me: but I guess on the other if he feels I haven't been contributing then I guess it's a valid suspicion? I'm trying to Change that now :) Anyway my vote for Libra really isn't helpful at the moment until we get a replacement so i am going to Vote: LBTrocks for the above reason. I wasn't really analyzing your gameplay from last game though, and my suspicions of you were formulated from how you've been acting in this game. I just used the fact that this would be your first time playing town as a way to strengthen my argument that you might use that to your advantage while playing the confused newbie card, if that is indeed what you're doing. Also, your vote on me here feels a bit OMGUS. Its good that you're starting to contribute more now, but it does feels like it had to be dragged out of you a bit. I'm not sure how long you would have kept flying under the radar if Kunt's question and my vote for you hadn't put you in the hot seat a bit.
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 21, 2016 20:00:40 GMT -5
i hit reply before I could add something at the beginning to explain but these are my thoughts on everyone so far Why not just add it in a different post?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 20:03:09 GMT -5
LBTrocks: weak scumI feel like part of his argument to vote me is rather weak and partly based on a previous game, Because here he says: And now he is using it here to vote me: but I guess on the other if he feels I haven't been contributing then I guess it's a valid suspicion? I'm trying to Change that now :) Anyway my vote for Libra really isn't helpful at the moment until we get a replacement so i am going to Vote: LBTrocks for the above reason. I wasn't really analyzing your gameplay from last game though, and my suspicions of you were formulated from how you've been acting in this game. I just used the fact that this would be your first time playing town as a way to strengthen my argument that you might use that to your advantage while playing the confused newbie card, if that is indeed what you're doing. Also, your vote on me here feels a bit OMGUS. Its good that you're starting to contribute more now, but it does feels like it had to be dragged out of you a bit. I'm not sure how long you would have kept flying under the radar if Kunt's question and my vote for you hadn't put you in the hot seat a bit. [ I wasn't deliberately flying under the radar. I just hadn't had the time to catch up with the thread and make some observations of my own. I see why you think my vote was OMGUS though & tbh i think it's a rather weak reason actually now that I think about it. I'm okay with being "in the hot seat" if people think I'm scummy looking but I also don't think it's good idea to not be looking elsewhere as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 21:40:23 GMT -5
I'm catching up on the last couple of pages and typing up a post now but real quick, caught this comment from Kunt:
And to albie there are only two scenarios that would play out in this game if we all role claimed right now:
1. mafia aims for the jailkeeper N1 to make sure there is no one who can block their NKs on subsequent nights, then they arm themselves in case they are targeted by the cop. If the cop manages to survive N1, they kill him on cop N2. 2. mafia aims for the cop N1 to make sure he can't get a read on anyone, then aim for the jailkeeper on N2.
in both scenarios the only hope is for the jailkeeper to not only target one of the mafia players but to specifically target the mafia player who sends in the NK. That's a ridiculously onerous burden to put on one person to save town and is all but an unwinnable scenario unless we catch both mafia players right away. I don't know why this is still a point of discussion, it's so clearly a Not Good idea.
I'd generally not in favor of a no-lynch from the perspective that we're not guaranteed to go into D2 with any more leads than we would have at the end of D1, so the extra number we save ourselves isn't much good if we end up mislynching on D2 anyway. Actually I could be wrong on this - I'm trying to run the numbers in my head at the moment instead of working it out on paper - but now that I think about it we might go into D2 with a LYLO situation regardless of what we do, just b/c of the possible # of deaths any given night can have. (I'm assuming that the majority of people are still leaning against the coordination idea when I say this.) So in that case would it not be smarter to try to find scum on D1 - even if we don't, we will have a day's worth of discussion and a lynch wagon to look at - than to do nothing D1 and then be under massive pressure D2 to get it right on the first try? Or maybe the odds break even - which, in that case, there is still no point in a no-lynch because that's basically us saying we're not going to try.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 22:14:25 GMT -5
I mean, yes, we should be trying to find scum on D1.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 22:15:45 GMT -5
I'm not directly quoting here but I am indirectly responding to various things that have been said in this post.
The coordination thing, or at least the version I had suggested - I won't rehash the advantages and disadvantages that have already been mentioned but I will add one more disadvantage, possibly the biggest disadvantage of all, that I thought of when reading Kunt's comment about how we might end up WIFOM'ing ourselves over whose death was caused by whom - I didn't realize it but I was basically trying to give town a handicap to make it easier to find scum when the whole point of the game, for town is to read the conversation and look for scum tells, not rely on night actions to bail us out. Sure, having power roles helps and we should utilize them as best as possible, but if we're just going to end up falling back on bad habits then no, I don't want to do that either, because that helps no one (either in this game or in future games as far as playing skills are concerned). Lazy reliance is a bigger concern to me than most other things that have been pointed out, not to discount the other disadvantages though b/c they are valid.
No matter what town does, scum will maneuver around it, but if our sole goal is an attempt to minimize # of deaths, then I can understand it. However, as an actual scumhunting strategy (which is what I believe everyone was thinking the idea was intended to do), I now realize the error of my ways and I am sorry about that.
But on the note of minimizing deaths, Wot's proposal is actually VERY good for that. On the 'mafia will maneuver around this' front it doesn't help much, obviously, but it does essentially limit mafia to its one NK, thereby 'normalizing' the rate of the game. That can only help town. So I'll commit to this idea. I'm very much in favor of doing that.
I said when I came back in here I'd focus more on who to lynch so I'll do a quick run down of what I think of all the players so far:
Az - I moved my vote to him after Kunt pointed out Az making reference to Libra's flavor when Libra hadn't claimed his role yet. But admittedly I did that only because that was really the first 'scummy' thing I had noticed, so I figured it was something to go with, and beats having a lingering RVS vote on someone. Albie did point out that it might have been a general reference to the flavor of the game. Which is true, but could that also be a slight defense of one's partner? I've got my eyes on you two.
Albie - other than the tenuous connection mentioned above, I was kind of caught off guard by him asking if we should role claim immediately. I know he hasn't played as many games as most of the rest of us, but he's no longer a rookie either and this was just a Not Good idea to suggest that. Nothing else he has said has stood out as particularly scummy, though - basically the reason the weak scum read I have on Az and Albie is so weak is because it is entirely reliant on them being scum together. Like, I actually had to list these two out of alphabetical order b/c my analysis of Albie doesn't make sense unless you read my analysis of Az first. Individually, they're both closer to null, and are basically only guilty of things that other players are also guilty of (low activity/contribution level for Az, random sketch comment for Albie) and that aren't always scum tells. But I'll keep this in the back of my mind for now.
Kunt - **insert obligatory 'Kunt is too good to fully trust on day 1' comment here** He's seemed pretty townish to me so far though. Very townish, actually. I think it might have gotten lost in the shuffle because I ran with the analysis of it, but it was Kunt who mentioned the coordination idea first, although he dismissed it in the same post. I don't really see what scum would get out of bringing up an idea and discarding it in the thread. It could have been for show, but to me it came more across like some thinking out loud/looking for feedback thing that he did because he doesn't have a QT to discuss ideas with someone else. I considered whether it was an attempt at baiting town into following through on an idea without seeming as if he was pushing it, but he's pretty much consistently shot it down since then. Again, I don't see how scum would benefit from mentioning (even in mere passing) an idea that they don't want to see happen. I've thought this through and I even think his shut-down of the jailkeeper conversation was justified. I decline to clarify that point, though.
LBTRocks and Narwhals - I'll answer Kunt's 'who is more suspicious' question here. It feels as if LBT has contributed more to the discussion so far than Narwhals (although they have an equal number of posts, there has been more substance to LBT's), and nothing LBT has said so far has raised my scumdar (not that I have a particularly great one). So I suppose Narwhals in this case. WotUNeed feels both of these guys have been 'waffling' but I'm not sure I feel the same with regard to LBT - or if I do, I don't know that I think it's more likely to be a scum tell. A closer read is in order, but slight town read on LBT and null on Narhwals is where I currently am with these two.
Libra - inactive and has almost immediately asked for replacement, so I've got absolutely nothing here. Trying not to look too much into it right now b/c I know inactivity can swing either way. I'll just have to see how I feel about the new Ben Carson.
Max - is doing his Max thing. He is contributing (in what is so far a giving-actual-input way, not a post-to-appear-active way). As usual he's just kind of blending in, so he's not immediately jumping out one way or the other. Null/slight town vibes for now.
Popstop - Like Max he has contributed his opinions on things, but he's not really standing out one way or the other, other than suggesting a D1 No Lynch, so I guess another null/slight town vibe here. (side note: we're not in MYLO, so no to the no-lynch suggestion, but I don't immediately raise an eyebrow at this suggestion b/c I assume it was somewhat in tandem with being in favor of the coordinated visit plan. But also also, Wot's suggestion is effective enough that it makes no-lynch entirely unnecessary.)
WotUNeed - NGL at first I was pretty null on him, but the more I think about it the more I think he is town, as his target suggestion is a much improved version of the coordination idea and I don't see why mafia would suggest an idea that prevents them from blowing up as many people as possible at once.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 22:19:16 GMT -5
I mean, yes, we should be trying to find scum on D1. well yeah when you put it like that, no brainer. but I was just speaking in response to pop's no-lynch suggestion - in retrospect it didn't make sense for me to respond to that at all b/c Wot's strategy makes it a moot point. I do want to reiterate that I like Wot's strategy solely for it narrowing the # of deaths to just one.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 22:21:13 GMT -5
I mean, yes, we should be trying to find scum on D1. well yeah when you put it like that, no brainer. but I was just speaking in response to pop's no-lynch suggestion - in retrospect it didn't make sense for me to respond to that at all b/c Wot's strategy makes it a moot point. I do want to reiterate that I like Wot's strategy solely for it narrowing the # of deaths to just one. but I'm tipsy being shady is all I have to offer rn
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popstop
6x Platinum Member
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Advancing the Mountain Time Zone for all mankind
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Post by popstop on May 21, 2016 23:00:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I get it. No lynch is out as an option It's interesting that the only one who has been on board with it is Max, who I have had my vote on the whole time. Probably projecting, but I know the first time I was an independent, Liucci was initially onto me, and rather than defend myself, I just agreed with a lot of what he was saying and consistently wrote I thought he was town to throw him off my trail. Luckily, Liucci was hard for people to take seriously, so that was easy to do... I do also feel Wot, Kunt, and Cynthia are all town, particularly Wot with his plan. Speaking of which, we've all indicated we're ok with this plan, so what would be the next step? Is there anyone who isn't on board with it? I wish Kunt hadn't answered his own questions so soon, and waited for other people to respond though. Kunt, have you gotten enough feedback on your questions? Can you explain your reasoning for the first two questions? If Libra is one of the scum, we've got little to go on, other than the weird "I'm ready to sit down and start reading... nah, nm" posts. As far as Az, it is interesting that as soon as Kunt and Cynthia laid their votes down, he kind of defended himself and then sauntered off. Knowing Az, that could mean he's pissed off and trying to calm down because he is actually town, or he is scum and trying to avoid saying something that might get him in trouble. One thing that kind of tips him for me scum-wise is the disinterest in creation of any plan. Anyhow, I guess I need to up my game because I thought I was contributing pretty fully, but I guess I'm just being read as a null to most of you.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on May 21, 2016 23:20:02 GMT -5
Hai~ I have actually legit been doing other things, sorry. I've been checking in and reading though, I'm happy to see that we appear to be nixing the no-lynch idea since I thought that was kinda dumb to begin with (IDK why Max thought it was a good idea without going back and re-reading). I also didn't want to make a drive-by 'sorry can't talk right now.; will contribute later' post because that just looks bad, and it helps nobody anyway. I might've been getting a little pissy if a vote wagon formed based on my absence, but literally two votes against me is hardly a wagon and nothing to get worked up over lol. I mean yeah I know I get emotionally invested in this game but I'm trying to work on that.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on May 21, 2016 23:51:41 GMT -5
Kunt's Kuestion Korner
– LBTRocks vs Narwhals. Who is more suspicious, and why?
With a gun to my head, I'd have to say Narwhals. Having said that though, I don't particularly believe there is anything suspect about either of them. LBT has certainly provided more in the way of discussion, and I couldn't help but pick up on his point that Cynthia proposing her visitation plan might be a means of subterfuge by scum. Even though I'm against the idea I hadn't considered that angle so I definitely think it's something to keep in mind. It seems silly to me for scum to point out their own plan as potentially scummy, and I certainly don't think LBT would do that, so I don't think he's scum.
Narwhals, meanwhile, hasn't offered a whole lot but I also don't know if he's played enough games to be effective as scum (I don't recall if he's ever been scum?). Anyway, seeing as Pulse likes to put the spotlight on those who are less active I think it would be a bad move to consider him scummy based on that (there are other people who have been less active, myself included - my point being, we can't focus on Narwhals for being quieter when he's not the only one).
– What does everyone think of WotUNeed at the moment?
Town, driving discussion. As a seasoned player I think we ought to be paying attention to what he has to say. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, 'cause I think he might pick up on other things that we don't. As Max said, he tends to pack more content into fewer posts. And maybe he might just deliberately say odd stuff to make us take notice and kick our asses into gear. Hence, benefit of the doubt - he's not trying to be scummy, just trying to help us focus.
– Who is the most "expendable" member of town?
Unfortunately that would be Libra/whoever steps in to fill Libra's shoes. It's through no fault of his own, but if a player can't make a meaningful contribution that would make them the most expendable. That said though, policy lynching the dead weight is a bad idea, it's a cop out from actual scum hunting. Even if you use the logic that 'well, we usually swing and miss on D1', by axing the non-contributor we're wasting a kill when we could just rule that person out and look at the smaller selection of active players.
– Where and when do you think the Cop will see the most utility?
I... actually don't know. It's always gonna be a gamble if the Cop lands a correct target, because nobody except scum knows if that gun is loaded. Cop could hit a bullseye, but then consequently BE the bullseye if the scum they picked up on is armed. Then Town doesn't get to benefit from the Cop's results. I think the Cop would have the most utility never finding scum using their Night action. Provided scum doesn't find them first, the Cop can just pick off Town one by one and narrow the pool of suspects. – Same question as above, but applied to the Jailkeeper now that we know it roleblocks any armed scum.
I guess this would have to be the mirror image of my Cop answer. While it's best for the Cop to always target Town, it's best for the Jailkeeper to always target scum. I realize this is much harder to accomplish with only intuition and suspicion to go on, but if we ever have a night with no deaths, then it would mean that the Jailkeeper blocked the scum member that made the kill (and since he blocks the PGO power it doesn't matter whether they're armed or not). The Jailkeeper can give us a decisive lynch target just from the assumption that no death = they clock'd a scum player.
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Az Paynter
Diamond Member
On Dsico's Block List™
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 110,530
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Post by Az Paynter on May 21, 2016 23:53:05 GMT -5
Oh yes, I forgot to put in that post, based on LBT's suggestion that the visitation plan could be a dupe Vote: Cynthia
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Post by josh on May 22, 2016 0:01:23 GMT -5
It is Day 1.
Deadline has been set for 05/23/2016 at 11:59:59 PM ET.
It takes 6/10 votes to lynch!
Day 1 Vote Count 7:
Az: Kunt, Cynthia Cynthia: Az Kunt: Albie, Max LBTRocks: WotUNeed, Narwhals Max: Popstop Narwhals: LBTrocks
Not Voting: Walker9
#Mod: @walker9 is replacing Libra.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 0:03:25 GMT -5
*Confirm the replacement*
Just letting you all know I wont be able to be on tomorrow.
I will try to see what I can get and say for today.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 0:14:24 GMT -5
From what I see it seems like we random lynching anyone. Im not really in favor to do that. Ill see what info I can find when night time comes.
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Az Paynter
Diamond Member
On Dsico's Block List™
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 110,530
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Post by Az Paynter on May 22, 2016 0:18:38 GMT -5
"We random lynching anyone"? Since this was poorly expressed, are you suggesting we're currently looking to just pick any person and lynch them? 'Cause that's the opposite of what we want - we're trying to decide as a group who we think is the most suspicious and lynch them decisively. Randomness has nothing to do with it if we can help it.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 0:21:00 GMT -5
Yea, my info basically so far is that Idk myself who the most suspicious is. Its hard to tell. I have played in plenty of games like this where Town always ends up lynched day 1. Thats why I do not favor day 1 lynchings cause theres higher chance Town gets lynched than Mafia.
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