Billboard Hot 100: 12/9/2017

[weaver]

Nov 24, 2017 10:16:40 GMT -5 djkhaled said:

Nov 24, 2017 8:51:28 GMT -5 weaver said:

I think because people search for the song, get there and start playing it, long enough to find out it's only a loop, which is also long enough to count as a play. Then they have to go to spotify or apple music or another service to stream the actual song, or purchase it. So it ends up sort of doubling his points.

Yeah but so what tho? They still watched it twice.

Do most people seek out a chorus only loop?? I think not, so they are in effect doubling the points for the view. I don't think anyone intended to pit stop at a chorus-only loop of a song.

[weaver]

Nov 24, 2017 11:20:25 GMT -5 ddlz said:

Post Malone is a streaming phenomenon, and Rockstar was massive from the get go. The guy literally has 4 songs in Top 20 on Spotify. He doesn't need YouTube tricks to get people to stream his music on other streaming platforms.

Dj Akademics is a bitter old hag.

I'd guess perhaps Post Malone is not the only one doing this, and I'm sure it's record label machinations and not anything really of his doing.

[ddlz]

Nov 24, 2017 11:45:08 GMT -5 weaver said:

Nov 24, 2017 11:20:25 GMT -5 ddlz said:

Post Malone is a streaming phenomenon, and Rockstar was massive from the get go. The guy literally has 4 songs in Top 20 on Spotify. He doesn't need YouTube tricks to get people to stream his music on other streaming platforms.

Dj Akademics is a bitter old hag.

I'd guess perhaps Post Malone is not the only one doing this, and I'm sure it's record label machinations and not anything really of his doing.

Yeah, Migos and Big Sean latest singles used this same tactic. Dj Akademics is just mad that Post went #1.

[Golden Bluebird]

Keep in mind that DJ Akademiks isn't the first person/publication to point out that Republic Records might have gamed the system. The Fader brought it up first and DJ Akademiks was likely just re-reporting what Fader has reported, which you can click on here:

www.thefader.com/2017/10/17/post-malone-youtube-rockstar-chorus-loop

Keep in mind that this piece is more than a month old, so you guys seem to be late on this.

[Glove Slap]

Nov 24, 2017 0:59:09 GMT -5 kcdawg13 said:

rockstar is starting to pick up airplay on pop radio, but unfortunately like Black Beatles and Bodak Yellow I think it will probably get bad call-out scores and will be eliminated rather quickly. I think this is a perfect time for Post to push a song to pop radio, like I Fall Apart or Candy Paint or another radio friendly song. He should capitalize on rockstar's success and attempt to reach many audiences as possible.

The callout scores for Rockstar are already in (and have been for 2 or 3 weeks) and they're good. It's the third least disliked song, and the sixth highest favorite. Big difference from Bodak Yellow, which came in with the highest negative.

[85la]

Nov 24, 2017 8:33:14 GMT -5 weaver said:

This is an interesting read. I didn't realize this had been done but it's kind of smart in a totally unethical way...

The Youtube Values Gap

I doubt that those streams actually count though, he didn't give any credible evidence suggesting they do, just that "a reliable source close to the situation believes" that they do. I thought it's been made clear that Billboard requires the full original recording to be used in order for it to count, or in only slightly altered versions, such as remixes, etc., and that they have mechanisms in place to weed out such tricks? I could be wrong though, as I don't fully know all the ins and outs of how they count YouTube. Also interesting that the author gives one of the tired old arguments made repeatedly on this thread, that to him, rockstar didn't "feel really big" and like a no. 1 hit, but mentions that he mostly only listens to music on one metric, "mainstream radio" (I'm quoting his words exactly, whatever they mean. He didn't specify whether it was top 40, urban, etc.).

Ironically though, he further states that Mi Gente (the Beyonce remix) felt like a bigger hit to him and "deserved" to be no. 1 more (on Oct 18, the date of the article), when in fact that song was doing much better in sales and streaming then! So what feels like the biggest hits to one person goes beyond even what metric you use the most, but personal perception. I'm sure it also varies by song of course, like maybe Mi Gente was one of the few songs he just happened to buy or stream a whole lot, etc.

[ddlz]

Nov 24, 2017 15:41:04 GMT -5 85la said:

Nov 24, 2017 8:33:14 GMT -5 weaver said:

This is an interesting read. I didn't realize this had been done but it's kind of smart in a totally unethical way...

The Youtube Values Gap

I doubt that those streams actually count though, he didn't give any credible evidence suggesting they do, just that "a reliable source close to the situation believes" that they do. I thought it's been made clear that Billboard requires the full original recording to be used in order for it to count, or in only slightly altered versions, such as remixes, etc., and that they have mechanisms in place to weed out such tricks? I could be wrong though, as I don't fully know all the ins and outs of how they count YouTube. Also interesting that the author gives one of the tired old arguments made repeatedly on this thread, that to him, rockstar didn't "feel really big" and like a no. 1 hit, but mentions that he mostly only listens to music on one metric, "mainstream radio" (I'm quoting his words exactly, whatever they mean. He didn't specify whether it was top 40, urban, etc.).

Ironically though, he further states that Mi Gente (the Beyonce remix) felt like a bigger hit to him and "deserved" to be no. 1 more (on Oct 18, the date of the article), when in fact that song was doing much better in sales and streaming then! So what feels like the biggest hits to one person goes beyond even what metric you use the most, but personal perception. I'm sure it also varies by song of course, like maybe Mi Gente was one of the few songs he just happened to buy or stream a whole lot, etc.

Yeah, lol. It looks like angry Beyonce fan wrote that article. So much cringe.

[chicken077]

Ugh I just so so so want Havana to get at least 1 week at #1... it's just such a jam and so catchy! Also because the song means a lot to me personally... If Havana hits #1, it would be the first song on to hit #1 on both my personal chart and the Hot 100 since Starboy (well technically Despacito, but it's technically the original that hit #1 on my chart so...)

Also, any chance for Legends by Kelsea debuting on 12/9?

[weaver]

Nov 24, 2017 15:41:04 GMT -5 85la said:

Nov 24, 2017 8:33:14 GMT -5 weaver said:

This is an interesting read. I didn't realize this had been done but it's kind of smart in a totally unethical way...

The Youtube Values Gap

I doubt that those streams actually count though, he didn't give any credible evidence suggesting they do, just that "a reliable source close to the situation believes" that they do. I thought it's been made clear that Billboard requires the full original recording to be used in order for it to count, or in only slightly altered versions, such as remixes, etc., and that they have mechanisms in place to weed out such tricks? I could be wrong though, as I don't fully know all the ins and outs of how they count YouTube. Also interesting that the author gives one of the tired old arguments made repeatedly on this thread, that to him, rockstar didn't "feel really big" and like a no. 1 hit, but mentions that he mostly only listens to music on one metric, "mainstream radio" (I'm quoting his words exactly, whatever they mean. He didn't specify whether it was top 40, urban, etc.).

Ironically though, he further states that Mi Gente (the Beyonce remix) felt like a bigger hit to him and "deserved" to be no. 1 more (on Oct 18, the date of the article), when in fact that song was doing much better in sales and streaming then! So what feels like the biggest hits to one person goes beyond even what metric you use the most, but personal perception. I'm sure it also varies by song of course, like maybe Mi Gente was one of the few songs he just happened to buy or stream a whole lot, etc.

If the video on Youtube requires the whole song to count, then how do these viral videos affect the charts? They usually only use a portion of the song, and are pretty short. Is it a recent change? I guess the last song I remember really being affected by viral videos is Black Beatles...

[85la]

Nov 25, 2017 9:26:12 GMT -5 weaver said:

Nov 24, 2017 15:41:04 GMT -5 85la said:

I doubt that those streams actually count though, he didn't give any credible evidence suggesting they do, just that "a reliable source close to the situation believes" that they do. I thought it's been made clear that Billboard requires the full original recording to be used in order for it to count, or in only slightly altered versions, such as remixes, etc., and that they have mechanisms in place to weed out such tricks? I could be wrong though, as I don't fully know all the ins and outs of how they count YouTube. Also interesting that the author gives one of the tired old arguments made repeatedly on this thread, that to him, rockstar didn't "feel really big" and like a no. 1 hit, but mentions that he mostly only listens to music on one metric, "mainstream radio" (I'm quoting his words exactly, whatever they mean. He didn't specify whether it was top 40, urban, etc.).

Ironically though, he further states that Mi Gente (the Beyonce remix) felt like a bigger hit to him and "deserved" to be no. 1 more (on Oct 18, the date of the article), when in fact that song was doing much better in sales and streaming then! So what feels like the biggest hits to one person goes beyond even what metric you use the most, but personal perception. I'm sure it also varies by song of course, like maybe Mi Gente was one of the few songs he just happened to buy or stream a whole lot, etc.

If the video on Youtube requires the whole song to count, then how do these viral videos affect the charts? They usually only use a portion of the song, and are pretty short. Is it a recent change? I guess the last song I remember really being affected by viral videos is Black Beatles...

I don't think those viral videos that just showed various people doing the mannequin challenge counted.

[Golden Bluebird]

kworb.net/airadio/

*** = Dropped or added a format

Overall AI (Top 20) - 11/25/2017
1. (=) IMAGINE DRAGONS - Thunder (161.273) (+1.064)
2. (=) PORTUGAL. THE MAN - Feel It Still (145.891) (-0.396)
3. (=) CAMILA CABELLO - Havana f/Young Thug (139.479) (+3.824)
4. (=) POST MALONE - Rockstar f/21 Savage (118.893) (+1.330)
5. (=) MAROON 5 - What Lovers Do f/SZA (116.723) (+1.789)
6. (+1) ED SHEERAN - Perfect (106.133) (+1.923)
7. (+1) SAM SMITH - Too Good At Goodbyes (105.269) (+1.220)
8. (-2) DEMI LOVATO - Sorry Not Sorry (105.061) (+0.685)
9. (=) P!NK - What About Us (99.836) (-2.677)
10. (+1) LOGIC - 1-800-273-8255 f/A.Cara/Khalid (89.412) (-0.459)
11. (-1) CHARLIE PUTH - Attention (89.326) (-1.408)
12. (=) KESHA - Praying (88.102) (-0.218)
13. (=) J BALVIN - Mi Gente f/Willy William (85.596) (+0.931)
14. (=) HALSEY - Bad At Love (82.749) (+2.148)
15. (=) SHAWN MENDES - There's Nothing Holdin' Me Back (79.245) (-1.308)
16. (=) LIAM PAYNE - Strip That Down f/Quavo (79.233) (-1.005)
17. (=) NIALL HORAN - Slow Hands (74.649) (-0.122)
18. (=) CARDI B - Bodak Yellow (72.963) (-0.871)
19. (=) TAYLOR SWIFT - Ready For It (71.903) (+1.159)
20. (=) LANCO - Greatest Love Story (69.335) (+0.735)

Others:
22. (=) G-EAZY - No Limit f/A$AP Rocky, Cardi B (66.177) (+1.061)
24. (+4) KENDRICK LAMAR - LOVE. (64.221) (+5.701) ***
25. (+1) GARTH BROOKS - Ask Me How I Know (60.915) (+1.066)
28. (+1) LUKE BRYAN - Light It Up (57.791) (+1.004)
33. (=) DUA LIPA - New Rules (52.685) (+1.834)
34. (+2) CHARLIE PUTH - How Long (50.426) (+1.393)
42. (=) GUCCI MANE - I Get The Bag f/Migos (45.562) (+1.136)
53. (=) MAX - Lights Down Low (35.981) (+1.343)
62. (+3) SELENA GOMEZ X MARSHMELLO - Wolves (29.296) (+1.019)

[Deleted]

Thunder has now surpassed Believer's Overall AI peak (160.9 M), falling just short of Demons for Imagine Dragons' biggest radio hit (166.2 M). It'll surpass it within the next few days, for sure.

PS: Radioactive is only their 4th-biggest song on radio (157.3 M).

[brady47]

Praying's longevity on radio is amazing.

At one point, I wasn't sure if it would reach the top 20, and now it's so close to the Top 10.

Really hope it can make it.

[fhas]

Nov 25, 2017 13:17:53 GMT -5 Taiga said:

Thunder has now surpassed Believer's Overall AI peak (160.9 M), falling just short of Demons for Imagine Dragons' biggest radio hit (166.2 M). It'll surpass it within the next few days, for sure.

PS: Radioactive is only their 4th-biggest song on radio (157.3 M).

WTF. Each time I see any number like this where the biggest overall hit isn't the biggest on radio I wonder how tf airplay accounts for 30-35% of the Hot 100 points. One of the biggest hits of the decade had less audience impressions at its peak than Demons, Thunder and Believer. 

[Au$tin]

Nov 25, 2017 13:59:42 GMT -5 fhas said:

Nov 25, 2017 13:17:53 GMT -5 Taiga said:

Thunder has now surpassed Believer's Overall AI peak (160.9 M), falling just short of Demons for Imagine Dragons' biggest radio hit (166.2 M). It'll surpass it within the next few days, for sure.

PS: Radioactive is only their 4th-biggest song on radio (157.3 M).

WTF. Each time I see any number like this where the biggest overall hit isn't the biggest on radio I wonder how tf airplay accounts for 30-35% of the Hot 100 points. One of the biggest hits of the decade had less audience impressions at its peak than Demons, Thunder and Believer. 

"Radioactive" didn't hit all of the formats at one time, though. That's why its peak isn't that high. Remember, one week of stats does not tell the full story. If we use combined AI totals, "Radioactive" is by far Imagine Dragons's biggest radio hit.

[C.Ro]

So, Rockstar is gonna be #1 again? Is No Limit going finally top 10?

[deepston]

Kworb is predicting 87k for Havana (with the remix) and 56k for rockstar. Could this + the radio lead cut the streams disadvantage?

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

Nov 25, 2017 12:07:21 GMT -5 85la said:

Nov 25, 2017 9:26:12 GMT -5 weaver said:

If the video on Youtube requires the whole song to count, then how do these viral videos affect the charts? They usually only use a portion of the song, and are pretty short. Is it a recent change? I guess the last song I remember really being affected by viral videos is Black Beatles...

I don't think those viral videos that just showed various people doing the mannequin challenge counted.

I think they have and if I remember correctly a song just need to be played in the background of a viral video to count and video for at least 30 seconds. That's how Harlem Shake managed to have 100+ million streams on YouTube its first week and debut at #1 in the Hot 100.

As mentioned by YouTube Music Insights:

"How is this calculated?
Introduction to YouTube Music Charts and Music Insights

YouTube Music Charts and Music Insights provide the music community with information on YouTube views, to celebrate artist success on YouTube. Music Insights allows you to search and filter viewership data for artists and locations based on total views, while Music Charts are a weekly ranking of the top music on YouTube.

Built on the same underlying data, both Charts and Insights calculate views for artists and for tracks following a consistent methodology:

A track’s “total views” reflect views of videos that use all or part of a track – including official videos, live videos, fan videos, and commercials.
An artist’s “total views” are the combined views of tracks associated with the artist.

How total views are calculated for tracks

Views are counted for each track based on its International Standard Recording Code (ISRC), a “tag” that digitally identifies music tracks. On YouTube, a system called Content ID also analyzes videos automatically on behalf of the content owners. If an ISRC is assigned to an artist’s track and is claimed by Content ID, then YouTube counts any video that includes the track. The video could use all or only part of a track.

YouTube Music Charts

The YouTube Music Charts break down the most viewed music on YouTube by video, artist, track, and viral score:

“All Videos” ranks music videos by video view count in the previous week.
“Viral Videos” are scored using a number of popularity factors, with the goal of highlighting videos with the most uplift in the previous week.
The rankings in “Tracks” reflect total views for videos that contain a particular track, including user-generated content.
“Artists” rankings show the top 100 artists by total views.

Music Insights

YouTube Music Insights allows you to search and filter viewership data for artists and locations based on total views. Note that all of the numbers in YouTube Music Insights reflect data collected since September, 2014.
Locations

Finding an audience is critical, so we give you the tools to see view counts for cities, states, regions, and countries. For each location, you also get “locally popular” listings—a weekly summary of artists and tracks that are doing especially well in that location.
Filters

Click the filter button to adjust the date range and locations for your results. Note that because Music Insights contains data since September 1, 2014, that is the earliest date you can use to set the date range filter. Also, note that “locally popular” listings reflect the data for the last week of the filtered date range.
FAQ
Why is the number of views in Music Insights different from YouTube’s view count?

Music Insights compiles views since September 2014, which could result in a lower view count than an older individual video on YouTube. Also, Music Insights compiles views for ALL videos that feature a track, which could result in a higher view count than an individual YouTube video.

[djkhaled]

Ak reported on the migos trick too. He's consistent and I don't have anything against him, but I think people are overreacting to this by calling it a "trick". If someone hears the chorus and wants to listen to the entire song too, would it be fair to count that as only one stream? Should black beatles have not gotten any points from YouTube due to its chorus being the only thing being played in the mannequin challenge videos? How about Harlem shake?

[weaver]

Nov 25, 2017 23:33:17 GMT -5 djkhaled said:

Ak reported on the migos trick too. He's consistent and I don't have anything against him, but I think people are overreacting to this by calling it a "trick". If someone hears the chorus and wants to listen to the entire song too, would it be fair to count that as only one stream? Should black beatles have not gotten any points from YouTube due to its chorus being the only thing being played in the mannequin challenge videos? How about Harlem shake?

Well I don't know if it's a "trick" per se, but it's definitely a little extra, in the case of just looping a chorus especially, when done by the label/artist rather than some viral video, which just takes on a life of its own. Are these labeled as "chorus only"? I'm guessing not. In that case, they end up racking up extra streams, because people first listen to the chorus only version, and then realize it's only the chorus, after which they need to go download it, or stream the song in its entirety. This clearly would result in a higher number of streams than people just finding the correct version of the song. I actually have trouble understanding how that is NOT at least questionable?

It's not as if it's the first time labels have found ways to manipulate the chart. The most egregious example was the mid 90s - withholding a physical single until the song is peaking in airplay, resulting in a slew of #1 debuts. Or withholding it altogether, forcing people to purchase an entire album for one song, and also giving rise to illegal file sharing...#oops. While both of these are chart manipulation, the 90s example I feel is a bit different. People were still purchasing the song, the purchases were just in a big front-loaded burst, artificially, because of pent up demand after hearing a song all over the radio.

[Golden Bluebird]

kworb.net/airadio/

*** = Dropped or added a format

Overall AI (Top 20) - 11/26/2017
1. (=) IMAGINE DRAGONS - Thunder (161.645) (+0.372)
2. (=) PORTUGAL. THE MAN - Feel It Still (145.036) (-0.855)
3. (=) CAMILA CABELLO - Havana f/Young Thug (142.778) (+3.299)
4. (=) POST MALONE - Rockstar f/21 Savage (119.780) (+0.887)
5. (=) MAROON 5 - What Lovers Do f/SZA (118.263) (+1.540)
6. (=) ED SHEERAN - Perfect (107.550) (+1.417)
7. (=) SAM SMITH - Too Good At Goodbyes (105.344) (+0.075)
8. (=) DEMI LOVATO - Sorry Not Sorry (105.072) (+0.011)
9. (=) P!NK - What About Us (96.473) (-3.363)
10. (+1) CHARLIE PUTH - Attention (87.956) (-1.370)
11. (-1) LOGIC - 1-800-273-8255 f/A.Cara/Khalid (87.388) (-2.024)
12. (=) KESHA - Praying (86.380) (-1.722)
13. (=) J BALVIN - Mi Gente f/Willy William (85.611) (+0.015)
14. (=) HALSEY - Bad At Love (84.393) (+1.644)
15. (+1) LIAM PAYNE - Strip That Down f/Quavo (77.890) (-1.343)
16. (-1) SHAWN MENDES - There's Nothing Holdin' Me Back (77.743) (-1.502)
17. (=) NIALL HORAN - Slow Hands (73.355) (-1.294)
18. (+1) TAYLOR SWIFT - Ready For It (72.028) (+0.125)
19. (-1) CARDI B - Bodak Yellow (71.895) (-1.068)
20. (=) LANCO - Greatest Love Story (69.527) (+0.192)

Others:
26. (=) THOMAS RHETT - Unforgettable (59.340) (-1.038)
31. (+2) DUA LIPA - New Rules (54.026) (+1.341)
41. (+1) GUCCI MANE - I Get The Bag f/Migos (46.629) (+1.067)

[MilesW1998]

A couple songs to keep track of:

80. (+4) TAYLOR SWIFT - End Game f/Ed Sheeran/Future (23.879) (+1.509)
92. (+6) KEITH URBAN - Female (20.126) (+1.211)

[Golden Bluebird]

[deepston]

Wow Camilla really had some bad luck with the timing for Havana.

[MilesW1998]

at GUMMO reaching the top 40. 

[kacpe3]

Nov 26, 2017 10:07:44 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

at GUMMO reaching the top 40. 

Can this not be a hit?

[Someone]

Nov 26, 2017 10:07:44 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

at GUMMO reaching the top 40. 

How is it even doing good? It’s only top 40 in Apple Music and 58 on Spotify

[Golden Bluebird]

Nov 26, 2017 10:38:25 GMT -5 Someone said:

Nov 26, 2017 10:07:44 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

at GUMMO reaching the top 40. 

How is it even doing good? It’s only top 40 in Apple Music and 58 on Spotify

Must be doing well on YouTube since it has 33 million views so far.

Man, America really needs to stop making terrible people popular.

[jenglisbe]

Nov 26, 2017 10:02:13 GMT -5 deepston said:

Wow Camilla really had some bad luck with the timing for Havana.

True. Having said that, should't "Rock star" start losing airplay any day now? It has peaked at Urban and Rhythmic. I guess it depends how well Pop supports it. But if it starts losing points there, maybe...I haven't followed its streaming. Has it started losing in streams at all?

[deepston]

Nov 26, 2017 10:53:51 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 26, 2017 10:02:13 GMT -5 deepston said:

Wow Camilla really had some bad luck with the timing for Havana.

True. Having said that, should't "Rock star" start losing airplay any day now? It has peaked at Urban and Rhythmic. I guess it depends how well Pop supports it. But if it starts losing points there, maybe...I haven't followed its streaming. Has it started losing in streams at all?

The streams from Spotify are going down but he released the video last week so I suspect overall streams are going up.