Billboard Hot 100: 12/21/2019

[weirdo]

Dec 17, 2019 20:03:44 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Dec 17, 2019 19:56:56 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Not saying it would be a bad thing necessarily, but without the 20/50 rule we'd see a lot of "dead" hits resurfacing after Spotify Wrapped and radio year-end countdowns, which would make December an even more complicated month for charts. 

I like this rule personally because it allows for newer acts to break through, which is probably one of the reasons why it is in place. As irrelevant as it is to the general public, charts still influence who makes it in the industry and we'd lose on a lot of #80-100 charting songs if it weren't for the 20/50 rule.

One thing I will say is that I wish Billboard still tracked and factored in the weekly points of recurrent songs when compiling the *drumroll please* year end charts. That's one thing that bugs me, as those don't represent actual popularity of a song over a 52-week period -- they leave out weeks the song wasn't allowed to chart for being older than 20 weeks, which is bs.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I completely understand why the recurrent rules exist and what their function is for. I just personally would love to see a completely recurrentless chart for my own purposes. I understand, though, that I am not the target audience or even a consumer for Billboard, so my opinion on a recurrentless chart existing is moot. Still, though, would be cool to see. Especially if said chart were long, i.e. 500 positions or something. But the industry itself isn't checking for that, so the chances of ever seeing a chart like that or the Hot 100 removing recurrent rules is essentially zero.

I wish someone made their own Hot 100 chart without rwcurrwnt rulws. I get that its unrealistic and too much work but it would be so fun to see where Sucker or Talk or How Do You Sleep? would be without the recurrent rules

[Mauricio]

I was having a great evening, why did i decide to check this thread...

[Au$tin]

Look, moonlight, you are consistently missing the entire point of "chart watchers don't matter." Your opinion of these things is not relevant to this discussion as your opinion is irrelevant towards Billboard. What you or I think about a song spending 1000 weeks at #1 and 10000 on the chart altogether is moot in this argument. Billboard does not create the chart for you or any of us here. It's not made for the fans or the chart watchers. It's made exclusively for the industry. Us followers are a mere consequence of its existence. So nothing you could possibly say has any merit until you start coming at your argument from that place. Therefore, it is useless to continue engaging with you in this discussion.

Have a Merry Christmas.

[lyhom]

Dec 17, 2019 20:07:30 GMT -5 weirdo said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:04:27 GMT -5 Sambalada said:

Maybe it didn't feel as big because you didn't live through the song's success.

Im sure that plays a role in it. But even its chart run wasnt "best of all time" level

it spent 39 weeks across its two chart runs at a time on where even getting to 20 weeks probably was a rarity, that sounds pretty impressive to me lmao

[thabb]

Dec 16, 2019 17:59:18 GMT -5 feoba said:

Dec 16, 2019 17:46:09 GMT -5 thabb said:

tbh, in "break up with your girlfriend i'm bored"'s case, if it had been released as a single outside of album release week, it probably would've been able to stuck around more.

as for "highest in the room" and "heartless"… well, release better music

True, she should’ve waited til 7 Rings died down a bit to release it & the album. As for the others I hope this trend starts to stop. A #1 hit only having a few weeks in the top 10 is not cute.

i agree but at the same time it's just simply "sh*t happens". i guess you could say that it'll continue to happen for as long as big artists put out underwhelming singles lol. it's annoying and kind of embarrassing for the artist(s) involved, i agree.

but as another point, while we're still talking about big drops, 1-17 is just simply indefensible. even without the juice wrld and xmas waves, it would've fallen 1-11. it fluked its way up to #1 with a midweek sales bundle that caused it to drop about 90% in sales, and it also dropped about 30% in streams. that's just bad all around lol. and once radio drops this song it's going to be even more messy

[weirdo]

Dec 17, 2019 20:12:09 GMT -5 lyhom said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:07:30 GMT -5 weirdo said:

Im sure that plays a role in it. But even its chart run wasnt "best of all time" level

it spent 39 weeks across its two chart runs at a time on where even getting to 20 weeks probably was a rarity, that sounds pretty impressive to me lmao

Really?, i thought it was only like 25 weeks on the chart, maybe i got it mixed up with another song. But 39 weeks yeah no thats really good

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2019 20:11:00 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Look, moonlight, you are consistently missing the entire point of "chart watchers don't matter." Your opinion of these things is not relevant to this discussion as your opinion is irrelevant towards Billboard. What you or I think about a song spending 1000 weeks at #1 and 10000 on the chart altogether is moot in this argument. Billboard does not create the chart for you or any of us here. It's not made for the fans or the chart watchers. It's made exclusively for the industry. Us followers are a mere consequence of its existence. So nothing you could possibly say has any merit until you start coming at your argument from that place. Therefore, it is useless to continue engaging with you in this discussion.

Have a Merry Christmas.

[thabb]

Dec 17, 2019 20:11:00 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Look, moonlight, you are consistently missing the entire point of "chart watchers don't matter." Your opinion of these things is not relevant to this discussion as your opinion is irrelevant towards Billboard. What you or I think about a song spending 1000 weeks at #1 and 10000 on the chart altogether is moot in this argument. Billboard does not create the chart for you or any of us here. It's not made for the fans or the chart watchers. It's made exclusively for the industry. Us followers are a mere consequence of its existence. So nothing you could possibly say has any merit until you start coming at your argument from that place. Therefore, it is useless to continue engaging with you in this discussion.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Jeez lol

[Fears in the Fire]

I don’t see a problem with songs starting to have bigger falls from #1. If this is a signal that in general the charts are becoming more turbulent, then I’m all for it.

[Au$tin]

I've been working on my business email demeanor, you guys think it's working based on that post? :kii:

Dec 17, 2019 20:17:27 GMT -5 Fears in the Fire said:

I don’t see a problem with songs starting to have bigger falls from #1. If this is a signal that in general the charts are becoming more turbulent, then I’m all for it.

I'm honestly surprised we didn't see more of this last decade and earlier in this decade with digital sales.

[Au$tin]

Dec 17, 2019 20:19:34 GMT -5 awesomecharts said:

Every song should follow the same rules its that simple. Christmas songs get their own set.

They don't, though? They follow the same recurrent rules as everything else.

[weirdo]

Dec 17, 2019 20:17:27 GMT -5 Fears in the Fire said:

I don’t see a problem with songs starting to have bigger falls from #1. If this is a signal that in general the charts are becoming more turbulent, then I’m all for it.

Agreed

[garrettlen]

Dec 17, 2019 19:51:16 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

If a song is "hot" it should be allowed to chart no matter how old it is. I'm perfectly fine with xmas songs re-entering the chart every year. They are what's popular during that time. The Hot 100 reflects total consumption for the week.

i don't want some weird, new set of rules. That's how we got the stupidity of "airplay only" singles not being allowed to chart. Just keep it as a total consumption chart no matter what.

If you're afraid of Mariah being #1 every year, then have your fav release a good song to block it. The pressure is on.

Airplay only singles not being allowed to chart was not a new rule, it was a very old one.  

When the Billboard Hot 100 was created in 1958 it was created as a singles chart.  And from August 1958 to December 1998 that's exactly what is was.  It was just a given that any song by any artist who wanted to chart on it needed a commercial single to be available to purchase in order to do so (as well as a certain amount of airplay on the top 40 radio stations at the time).

This was the way it happened from the late 50's to the mid 90's on the Hot 100.  You needed a commercially available single to chart.  But by the mid 90's, singles were not selling in the numbers that they once did and record companies started not releasing them with each new song that an artist released to radio from an album; and sometimes they didn't release them at all; letting the album promote itself.  Hence, the airplay only songs that started to appear in the 90's that were ineligible to chart on the Hot 100; it was not Billboard that changed the rules, it was the record companies and the artists.

Seeing that more and more artists were having big airplay only hits while not being able to chart on the Hot 100, Billboard changed the Hot 100 chart to a songs or track chart in December 1998; allowing these airplay only songs to chart for the first time.  It was arguably one of the most significant changes the Billboard Hot 100 had made in its then 40 year history.

Just wanted to clear the record about who was actually responsible for the "stupidity" of airplay only songs.

[garrettlen]

Dec 17, 2019 20:14:34 GMT -5 weirdo said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:12:09 GMT -5 lyhom said:

it spent 39 weeks across its two chart runs at a time on where even getting to 20 weeks probably was a rarity, that sounds pretty impressive to me lmao

Really?, i thought it was only like 25 weeks on the chart, maybe i got it mixed up with another song. But 39 weeks yeah no thats really good

"The Twist" spent a total of 25 weeks in the Top 10 combining both of its chart runs (which was insane back in the early 60's).  That's also why it rates so high on the All Time chart too.

That's probably where you got the figure of 25 weeks; you weren't wrong.

[tuna]

HOT 100 WITHOUT CHRISTMAS SONGS: 12/21/2019



note: new peak is for any song that's higher than it has been on the actual charts. songs like Ballin' would have peaked higher if this idea was applied to other weeks but to prevent confusion any new peak is a new peak

also note: i left in the Christmas songs that were made and released this year


1. Circles- Post Malone

2. Someone You Loved- Lewis Capaldi

3. Good As Hell- Lizzo
4. Roxanne- Arizona Zervas (new peak)
5. Memories- Maroon 5
6. Lucid Dreams- Juice WRLD
7. Dance Monkey- Tones and I (new peak)
8. BOP- DaBaby (new peak)
9. Bandit- Juice WRLD and YoungBoy Never Broke Again (new peak)
10. Lose You To Love Me- Selena Gomez
11. 10,000 Hours- Dan + Shay + Justin Bieber
12. Senorita- Shawn Mendes and Camilla Cabello
13. Heartless- The Weeknd (the previous record was 15, so it would not have broken the record for largest drop)
14. Ballin'- Mustard ft. Roddy Ricch (new peak)
15. No Guidance- Chris Brown ft. Drake
16. Bad Guy- Billie Eilish
17. Panini- Lil Nas X
18. Truth Hurts- Lizzo
19. HIGHEST IN THE ROOM- Travis Scott
20. Trampoline- SHAED
21. Woah- Lil Baby
22. Legends- Juice WRLD (new peak)
23. everything i wanted- Billie Eilish
24. Ran$om- Lil Tecca
25. Hot- Young Thug ft. Gunna (and Travis Scott)
26. Adore You- Harry Styles (debut)
27. Falling- Trevor Daniel (new peak)
28. Old Town Road- Lil Nas X
29. Lover- Taylor Swift
30. One Man Band- Old Dominion
31. Don't Start Now- Dua Lipa
32. Only Human- Jonas Brothers
33. On Chill- Wale ft. Jerimih
34. Even Though I'm Leaving- Luke Combs
35. The Box- Roddy Ricch (debut)
36. Graveyard- Halsey
37. Robbery- Juice WRLD
38. Beautiful People- Ed Sheeran ft. Khalid (probably would have staved off recurrency another week)
39. Hot Girl Bummer- blackbear (new peak)
40. Blinding Lights- The Weeknd
41. Playing Games- Summer Walker
42. The Bones- Maren Morris (new peak)
43. Into The Unknown- Idina Menzel and AURORA (new peak)
44. Heat- Chris Brown ft. Gunna
45. Juicy- Doja Cat ft. Tyga (new peak)
46. Start Wit Me- Roddy Ricch ft. Gunna (new peak)
47. Christmas Tree Farm- Taylor Swift
48. Hate Me- Ellie Goulding and Juice WRLD (new peak)
49. Like It's Christmas- Jonas Brothers (new peak)
50. VIBEZ- DaBaby
51. Remember You Young- Thomas Rhett (new peak)
52. Death- Trippie Redd ft. Dababy (new peak)
53. Heart On Ice- Rod Wave (new peak)
54. Camelot- NLE Choppa
55. Take What You Want- Post Malone ft. Ozzy Ozbourne and Travis Scott
56. Ridin' Roads- Dustin Lynch (new peak)
57. Leave Em Alone- Layton Greene, Lil Baby, City Girls and PnB Rock (new peak)
58. What If I Never Get Over You- Lady Antebellum
59. Heartache Medication- Jon Pardi (new peak)
60. Peta- Roddy Ricch ft. Meek Mill (debut)
61. Tip Toe- Roddy Ricch ft. A Boogie Wit da Hoodie (new peak)
62. Suicidal- YNW Melly (new peak)
63. Vete- Bad Bunny
64. No Idea- Don Tolliver (new peak)
65. Kinfolks- Sam Hunt
66. 6 Kiss- Trippie Redd ft. Juice WRLD and YNW Melly
67. Prayed For You- Matt Stell
68. 223's- YNW Melly and 6lokknine
69. SLOW DANCING IN THE DARK- Joji
70. My Oh My- Camilla Cabello ft. DaBaby (debut)
71. Enemies- Post Malone ft. DaBaby
72. Baby Sitter- DaBaby ft. Offset
73. Bad Vibes Forever- XXXTENTACION ft. PnB Rock and Trippie Redd (debut)
74. Candy- Doja Cat (new peak)
75. Empty- Juice WRLD
76. We Back- Jason Aldean (new peak)
77. Easy- DaniLeigh ft. Chris Brown (new peak)
78. Homesick- Kanye Brown (new peak)
79. Nice To Meet Ya- Niall Horan
80. Watermelon Sugar- Harry Styles
81. Show Yourself- Idina Menzel and Evan Rachel Wood
82. We Were- Keith Urban
83. Yellow Hearts- Ant Saunders
84. RITMO (Bad Boys For Life)- The Black Eyed Peas ft. J Balvin (new peak)
85. Lord Above- Fat Joe & Dre Featuring Eminem and Mary J. Blige (debut)
86. Big Stepper- Roddy Ricch (debut)
87. Cuban Links- Rod Wave & Kevin Gates (new peak)
88. BEST ON EARTH- Russ and BIA (debut)

-ALL BELOW ARE FROM THE BUBBLING UNDER CHART-

89. Ex Bitch- XXXTENTACION
90. Slide- H.E.R ft. YG
91. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)- John Legend
92. I Hope- Gabby Barett
93. Intro- Roddy Ricch
94. Paid My Dues- NF
95. Perfect Time- Roddy Ricch
96. Let Me Know (I Wonder Why Freestyle)- Juice WRLD
97. Make Me Want To- Jimmie Allen
98. High Fashion- Roddy Ricch ft. Mustard
99. Boom Boom Boom- Roddy Ricch
100. More Hearts Than Mine- Ingrid Andress

[moonlite]

Dec 17, 2019 20:11:00 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Look, moonlight, you are consistently missing the entire point of "chart watchers don't matter." Your opinion of these things is not relevant to this discussion as your opinion is irrelevant towards Billboard. What you or I think about a song spending 1000 weeks at #1 and 10000 on the chart altogether is moot in this argument. Billboard does not create the chart for you or any of us here. It's not made for the fans or the chart watchers. It's made exclusively for the industry. Us followers are a mere consequence of its existence. So nothing you could possibly say has any merit until you start coming at your argument from that place. Therefore, it is useless to continue engaging with you in this discussion.

Have a Merry Christmas.

I don't know why you're running away

I understand the Hot 100 is made for the industry... which is why I'm saying what I'm saying. You think labels like seeing their songs being demolished on the charts by these 30-50 year old songs?

[garrettlen]

Dec 17, 2019 20:17:27 GMT -5 Fears in the Fire said:

I don’t see a problem with songs starting to have bigger falls from #1. If this is a signal that in general the charts are becoming more turbulent, then I’m all for it.

I personally think it's more a sign of front loaded singles from really popular artists; but if the song isn't really that great in the end, it will have a hard time sustaining that kind of momentum, hence the large drops from #1 for some of these.  JMO.

[weirdo]

Dec 17, 2019 20:30:20 GMT -5 garrettlen said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:14:34 GMT -5 weirdo said:

Really?, i thought it was only like 25 weeks on the chart, maybe i got it mixed up with another song. But 39 weeks yeah no thats really good

"The Twist" spent a total of 25 weeks in the Top 10 combining both of its chart runs (which was insane back in the early 60's).  That's also why it rates so high on the All Time chart too.

That's probably where you got the figure of 25 weeks; you weren't wrong.

Ok. That makes sense then

[spoons]

Anyone else rooting for BOP to hit the top 10 and survive the Christmas songs? How likely will that be?

[weirdo]

Dec 17, 2019 20:31:31 GMT -5 tuna said:

HOT 100 WITHOUT CHRISTMAS SONGS: 12/21/2019



note: new peak is for any song that's higher than it has been on the actual charts. songs like Ballin' would have peaked higher if this idea was applied to other weeks but to prevent confusion any new peak is a new peak

also note: i left in the Christmas songs that were made and released this year


1. Circles- Post Malone

2. Someone You Loved- Lewis Capaldi

3. Good As Hell- Lizzo
4. Roxanne- Arizona Zervas (new peak)
5. Memories- Maroon 5
6. Lucid Dreams- Juice WRLD
7. Dance Monkey- Tones and I (new peak)
8. BOP- DaBaby (new peak)
9. Bandit- Juice WRLD and YoungBoy Never Broke Again (new peak)
10. Lose You To Love Me- Selena Gomez
11. 10,000 Hours- Dan + Shay + Justin Bieber
12. Senorita- Shawn Mendes and Camilla Cabello
13. Heartless- The Weeknd (the previous record was 15, so it would not have broken the record for largest drop)
14. Ballin'- Mustard ft. Roddy Ricch (new peak)
15. No Guidance- Chris Brown ft. Drake
16. Bad Guy- Billie Eilish
17. Panini- Lil Nas X
18. Truth Hurts- Lizzo
19. HIGHEST IN THE ROOM- Travis Scott
20. Trampoline- SHAED
21. Woah- Lil Baby
22. Legends- Juice WRLD (new peak)
23. everything i wanted- Billie Eilish
24. Ran$om- Lil Tecca
25. Hot- Young Thug ft. Gunna (and Travis Scott)
26. Adore You- Harry Styles (debut)
27. Falling- Trevor Daniel (new peak)
28. Old Town Road- Lil Nas X
29. Lover- Taylor Swift
30. One Man Band- Old Dominion
31. Don't Start Now- Dua Lipa
32. Only Human- Jonas Brothers
33. On Chill- Wale ft. Jerimih
34. Even Though I'm Leaving- Luke Combs
35. The Box- Roddy Ricch (debut)
36. Graveyard- Halsey
37. Robbery- Juice WRLD
38. Beautiful People- Ed Sheeran ft. Khalid (probably would have staved off recurrency another week)
39. Hot Girl Bummer- blackbear (new peak)
40. Blinding Lights- The Weeknd
41. Playing Games- Summer Walker
42. The Bones- Maren Morris (new peak)
43. Into The Unknown- Idina Menzel and AURORA (new peak)
44. Heat- Chris Brown ft. Gunna
45. Juicy- Doja Cat ft. Tyga (new peak)
46. Start Wit Me- Roddy Ricch ft. Gunna (new peak)
47. Christmas Tree Farm- Taylor Swift
48. Hate Me- Ellie Goulding and Juice WRLD (new peak)
49. Like It's Christmas- Jonas Brothers (new peak)
50. VIBEZ- DaBaby
51. Remember You Young- Thomas Rhett (new peak)
52. Death- Trippie Redd ft. Dababy (new peak)
53. Heart On Ice- Rod Wave (new peak)
54. Camelot- NLE Choppa
55. Take What You Want- Post Malone ft. Ozzy Ozbourne and Travis Scott
56. Ridin' Roads- Dustin Lynch (new peak)
57. Leave Em Alone- Layton Greene, Lil Baby, City Girls and PnB Rock (new peak)
58. What If I Never Get Over You- Lady Antebellum
59. Heartache Medication- Jon Pardi (new peak)
60. Peta- Roddy Ricch ft. Meek Mill (debut)
61. Tip Toe- Roddy Ricch ft. A Boogie Wit da Hoodie (new peak)
62. Suicidal- YNW Melly (new peak)
63. Vete- Bad Bunny
64. No Idea- Don Tolliver (new peak)
65. Kinfolks- Sam Hunt
66. 6 Kiss- Trippie Redd ft. Juice WRLD and YNW Melly
67. Prayed For You- Matt Stell
68. 223's- YNW Melly and 6lokknine
69. SLOW DANCING IN THE DARK- Joji
70. My Oh My- Camilla Cabello ft. DaBaby (debut)
71. Enemies- Post Malone ft. DaBaby
72. Baby Sitter- DaBaby ft. Offset
73. Bad Vibes Forever- XXXTENTACION ft. PnB Rock and Trippie Redd (debut)
74. Candy- Doja Cat (new peak)
75. Empty- Juice WRLD
76. We Back- Jason Aldean (new peak)
77. Easy- DaniLeigh ft. Chris Brown (new peak)
78. Homesick- Kanye Brown (new peak)
79. Nice To Meet Ya- Niall Horan
80. Watermelon Sugar- Harry Styles
81. Show Yourself- Idina Menzel and Evan Rachel Wood
82. We Were- Keith Urban
83. Yellow Hearts- Ant Saunders
84. RITMO (Bad Boys For Life)- The Black Eyed Peas ft. J Balvin (new peak)
85. Lord Above- Fat Joe & Dre Featuring Eminem and Mary J. Blige (debut)
86. Big Stepper- Roddy Ricch (debut)
87. Cuban Links- Rod Wave & Kevin Gates (new peak)
88. BEST ON EARTH- Russ and BIA (debut)

-ALL BELOW ARE FROM THE BUBBLING UNDER CHART-

89. Ex Bitch- XXXTENTACION
90. Slide- H.E.R ft. YG
91. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)- John Legend
92. I Hope- Gabby Barett
93. Intro- Roddy Ricch
94. Paid My Dues- NF
95. Perfect Time- Roddy Ricch
96. Let Me Know (I Wonder Why Freestyle)- Juice WRLD
97. Make Me Want To- Jimmie Allen
98. High Fashion- Roddy Ricch ft. Mustard
99. Boom Boom Boom- Roddy Ricch
100. More Hearts Than Mine- Ingrid Andress

Thanks for posting this. Always interesting to see these kinds of lists. Also, not to self-promote, but if anyone is interested i have a thread for the 2018 holiday season without Christmas songs

[Au$tin]

Dec 17, 2019 20:23:45 GMT -5 awesomecharts said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:21:01 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

They don't, though? They follow the same recurrent rules as everything else.

I’m confused lol

Songs go recurrent either after spending 52 weeks on the chart and falling below #25, spending 20 weeks on the chart and falling below #50, or (assuming I theorized this correctly from a few weeks ago) coming from an album over two years old.

For the latter two instances, in order for the song to reappear on the chart, it needs to be above #50. For the first instance, it needs to be above #25. For all instances, it needs to be showing significant gains to reappear so we don't have songs bouncing in and out of the chart around the #50 and #25 positions.

Christmas songs follow those rules. None of the Christmas songs are over 52 weeks yet since Billboard didn't even allow them to chart until a few years ago. But some of them are over 20 weeks and damn near all of them are over 2 years old, thus they all need to reach the top 50 before charting. (Soon RATCT, AIWFCIY, and AHJC will reach that 52 weeks mark and will need to reach the top 25.) The only ones that don't follow those rules are the newly released ones like "Christmas Tree Farm" or "Like It's Christmas" (and John Legend's "Happy Xmas" in the Bubbling Under).

Songs can subvert all three rules if they meet the "active promotion" rule. Though this is rare. Lizzo's "Good as Hell" was allowed out of recurrency before reaching the top 50 because she performed it on television and a radio release was announced, for example. But I don't believe any Christmas song has ever been given this exclusion.

[Sambalada]

Dec 17, 2019 20:07:30 GMT -5 weirdo said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:04:27 GMT -5 Sambalada said:

Maybe it didn't feel as big because you didn't live through the song's success.

Im sure that plays a role in it. But even its chart run wasnt "best of all time" level

I'm sure someone will explain it a lot better than me but 25 weeks in the top 10 in the 60s is equivalent to 50 weeks in the top 10 today taking into account the multiplier they use.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Dec 17, 2019 13:39:17 GMT -5 awesomecharts said:

Dec 17, 2019 13:01:07 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Why

They have a holiday 100 for a reason, to track the most popular holiday songs.

Using that logic, they have a Rap chart for a reason. Let's cut out all the rap songs clogging the hot 100 52 weeks a year.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Dec 17, 2019 20:31:37 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:11:00 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Look, moonlight, you are consistently missing the entire point of "chart watchers don't matter." Your opinion of these things is not relevant to this discussion as your opinion is irrelevant towards Billboard. What you or I think about a song spending 1000 weeks at #1 and 10000 on the chart altogether is moot in this argument. Billboard does not create the chart for you or any of us here. It's not made for the fans or the chart watchers. It's made exclusively for the industry. Us followers are a mere consequence of its existence. So nothing you could possibly say has any merit until you start coming at your argument from that place. Therefore, it is useless to continue engaging with you in this discussion.

Have a Merry Christmas.

I don't know why you're running away

I understand the Hot 100 is made for the industry... which is why I'm saying what I'm saying. You think labels like seeing their songs being demolished on the charts by these 30-50 year old songs?

Christmas songs don't exist in a record label void. I'm sure UMG and Columbia are dancing on dollars at this moment thanks to these holiday songs that demolished the charts pretty much completely on their own or with little investment. The easiest money they'll make all year.

[David]

MARIAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2019 20:59:34 GMT -5 Sambalada said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:07:30 GMT -5 weirdo said:

Im sure that plays a role in it. But even its chart run wasnt "best of all time" level

I'm sure someone will explain it a lot better than me but 25 weeks in the top 10 in the 60s is equivalent to 50 weeks in the top 10 today taking into account the multiplier they use.

Pretty much. When I was looking at the mid-70s weekly charts some days ago, I noticed that in any given week, it was very rare to have any song on the entire chart older than 25 weeks old. In fact, close to 50% of the time there wasn't even a song older than 20 weeks old. Olivia Newton-John's Physical was the first song to spend 10 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100 in the 80s (1981-82), a huge smash for the time, and it spent 24 weeks total on.

The Twist was so popular that it went to #1 for a week in September 1960, spawned a top 10 hit sequel (Let's Twist Again, #8) in 1961, and then returned to #1 itself for two weeks in January 1962 because high society belatedly caught on to the craze and reignited its popularity, lining up outside popular nightclubs to do the dance and get papped for the gossip columns.

In the 21st century this would be the equivalent of a TikTok meme pushing a song to #1 in 2019 and that song reaching recurrent status, the artist making a sequel that goes top 10 in 2020, and then the original song breaking past the 25/52 rule in 2021 to return to the #1 spot for even more weeks than the 2019 run because a bunch of A-list actors were two years late to the first party and started making their own meme vids which spark a s**t ton of unpredictable UGC.

All without the artist in question dying.

A lot of y'all would be mad as F*CK if that happened lmao

[Lukas]

I’m late to this, but I’ll try to squeeze my thoughts in this in:

If you combine “The Twist’s” chart run, it spent 25 weeks in the top 10 total. Since the all-time list puts a lot of emphasis for longevity in the chart’s top 10, it makes sense to focus on that record.

Here’s the songs with the most weeks in the top 10 for both the pre-Soundscan era and the current Soundscan era (I actually might be :

Pre-Soundscan:

25 weeks:
The Twist

17 weeks:
How Deep Is Your Love

16 weeks:
Mack the Knife
I Just Want To Be Your Everything
Hurts So Good

15 weeks:
Le Freak
Eye of the Tiger
Another One Bites The Dust
Waiting For A Girl Like You

Currently:

33 weeks:
Shape of You
Girls Like You
Sunflower

32 weeks:
How Do I Live
Closer
Sicko Mode

31 weeks:
Uptown Funk!

30 weeks:
Smooth
bad guy



What do you take away from this? Well, “The Twist” spent 1.5 times as much time inside the top 10 than any other song did during the pre-Soundscan era where there was much shorter chart runs.

Even songs like “Bette Davis Eyes”, “Endless Love”, “You Light Up My Life”, and “Hey Jude”, which are in the top 20 of all time, couldn’t get to 15 weeks inside the top 10. And “Everything I Do (I Do It For You)” only had 10 weeks inside the top 10.

You can see that this is massively impressive.

Compare that to right now, where literally 6 songs are at the record or one week away from it, and lots of songs have reached half a year inside the top 10.

There’s a reason why The Twist is still #1 of all-time with over almost a 1.25x margin over Smooth.

[Au$tin]

Dec 17, 2019 20:31:37 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:11:00 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Look, moonlight, you are consistently missing the entire point of "chart watchers don't matter." Your opinion of these things is not relevant to this discussion as your opinion is irrelevant towards Billboard. What you or I think about a song spending 1000 weeks at #1 and 10000 on the chart altogether is moot in this argument. Billboard does not create the chart for you or any of us here. It's not made for the fans or the chart watchers. It's made exclusively for the industry. Us followers are a mere consequence of its existence. So nothing you could possibly say has any merit until you start coming at your argument from that place. Therefore, it is useless to continue engaging with you in this discussion.

Have a Merry Christmas.

I don't know why you're running away

I understand the Hot 100 is made for the industry... which is why I'm saying what I'm saying. You think labels like seeing their songs being demolished on the charts by these 30-50 year old songs?

Exiting a conversation because you understand you're talking with a brick wall who refuses to budge on their stance no matter how much logical reasoning you throw at them is not "running away," miss me with that 12-year-old mentality on debates. But if you absolutely think you're ready to have this discussion from a business standpoint rather than your own personal take on what should or shouldn't be, then I'll bite.

I don't think you realize how much time and effort goes into promoting and ensuring these Christmas songs become annual classics. It's not magical. Do you know how many Christmas songs exist out there? Exponentially more than what is charting. Many of which are originals by A-listers at the time that have long since been forgotten because the effort to continuously push them wasn't enough or made at all. Labels absolutely want to see their hard work be paid off. Likewise, the songs going recurrent because of them simply are no longer being actively promoted by their labels. Khalid is two singles removed from "Talk," Ed Sheeran is a single removed from "Beautiful People," "My Type" has long since ceased its active label push outside of pop radio where it just recently peaked. This list goes on. We're not talking about songs actively growing here. These are dead songs labels have already moved on from up against songs that receive annual support from their respective labels.

I know I've already made this point, but I don't think it got through to you. The music industry doesn't do much this month anyway. Harry Styles's album release is the last big push you're gonna see this year, and even him releasing an album so late into the month is risky and largely unheard of. Radio station program directors are literally gearing up for a 1-2 week vacation, making it difficult for new songs to grow anyway. Consumers are focusing on Christmas music and reflecting on the year's biggest hits en masse. There's no sense for the industry to do much active promotion for anything new. Generally they let their current hits coast and focus on pushing whatever Christmas songs and hits of the year are in their catalogs. They want to see their efforts in that regard reflected on the charts, not songs already falling foundering around or new songs doing basically nothing until January. They don't have any songs being demolished, just songs being removed they weren't checking for anymore anyway.

[garrettlen]

Dec 17, 2019 22:01:03 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:59:34 GMT -5 Sambalada said:

I'm sure someone will explain it a lot better than me but 25 weeks in the top 10 in the 60s is equivalent to 50 weeks in the top 10 today taking into account the multiplier they use.

 Olivia Newton-John's Physical was the first song to spend 10 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100

Debby Boone (Pat's daughter) and "You Light Up My Life" was the first single on the Hot 100 to spend 10 weeks at #1 between October and December 1977; four years before "Physical".

[summers]

Dec 17, 2019 20:04:26 GMT -5 moonlite said:

You guys are thinking too short term. I get that holiday music on the charts is exciting now because its still a new thing. But it will get dull and stale and irritating very fast. I can't imagine how annoyed and bored out of their minds chart watchers in 2050 will feel when AIWFC is charting for the 300th week and at its 50th week at #1. 

When this happened, by the current billboard rules, they probably won't have enough points to chart anyway. In which case, not many Christmas songs will chart (what you want), while the Hot 100 will still accurately reflecting what popular that week (what everyone wants). So I don't see any problem with the current rules.