Billboard Hot 100: 12/21/2019

[atg]

Jesus what has this thread become? First the whole sudden death of juice and some insensitive people, then the whole mariah talk and debate, then the christmas song charting talk debate. We hit over 1300+ replies and this was all in one week guys

[iHype.]

I swear y'all complain about the discussion every week. It's more annoying than the actual discussion y'all swear is the issue. Just scroll past if you don't like the discussion?....

Never understand why y'all need to make posts announcing it every single week.

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OT: Blinding Lights falling 40 spots is just as worrying, if not more, than Heartless having that drop. People swore BL was gonna start smashing once his label moved towards it, but the song isn't really sticking out to the public it seems. 

[atg]

^ i’m not complaining in fact i think we broke a record of our own here. Most replies in one week

[garrettlen]

Dec 17, 2019 22:39:51 GMT -5 atg said:

Jesus what has this thread become? First the whole sudden death of juice and some insensitive people, then the whole mariah talk and debate, then the christmas song charting talk debate. We hit over 1300+ replies and this was all in one week guys

This is NOTHING compared to some of Pulse's Hot 100 threads in the past.   Really.

[thegreatdivine]

45 pages has to be a record for 2019, right?

[Lukas]

Dec 17, 2019 22:44:22 GMT -5 atg said:

^ i’m not complaining in fact i think we broke a record of our own here. Most replies in one week

So you'd rather have the threads be like this for the sake of "breaking records?"

[Naos]

Dec 17, 2019 22:41:06 GMT -5 iHype. said:

OT: Blinding Lights falling 40 spots is just as worrying, if not more, than Heartless having that drop. People swore BL was gonna start smashing once his label moved towards it, but the song isn't really sticking out to the public it seems. 

Would've liked "Blinding Lights" to become a hit, one of the few Weeknd songs I like.

[campbellssoup]

What’s the problem with so many replies on the thread? That just means it was an eventful week. More posts means more opinions to read about popular music and the charts and that’s exactly what I come here to read.

[tanooki]

Dec 17, 2019 23:12:19 GMT -5 campbellssoup said:

What’s the problem with so many replies on the thread? That just means it was an eventful week. More posts means more opinions to read about popular music and the charts and that’s exactly what I come here to read.

a lot of shit talking of a dead kid

[Ernesto]

Dec 16, 2019 21:15:17 GMT -5 @benson said:

This is amazing! Excellent job, mate!

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2019 21:53:10 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Dec 17, 2019 13:39:17 GMT -5 awesomecharts said:

They have a holiday 100 for a reason, to track the most popular holiday songs.

Using that logic, they have a Rap chart for a reason. Let's cut out all the rap songs clogging the hot 100 52 weeks a year.

lol this is not logical at all ...

[iHype.]

Dec 17, 2019 22:44:22 GMT -5 atg said:

^ i’m not complaining in fact i think we broke a record of our own here. Most replies in one week

I'm just saying, it should be pretty expected at this point, that any Hot 100 discussion (even outside this website) comes with stanwars and arguments/heated discussions. That will always be a thing. You just have to scroll past if you don't like it, engage if you do. 

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Dec 17, 2019 23:26:19 GMT -5 awesomecharts said:

Dec 17, 2019 21:53:10 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Using that logic, they have a Rap chart for a reason. Let's cut out all the rap songs clogging the hot 100 52 weeks a year.

lol this is not logical at all ...

You're right. Nor is disallowing Christmas songs from charting.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2019 22:25:43 GMT -5 garrettlen said:

Dec 17, 2019 22:01:03 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

 Olivia Newton-John's Physical was the first song to spend 10 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100

Debby Boone (Pat's daughter) and "You Light Up My Life" was the first single on the Hot 100 to spend 10 weeks at #1 between October and December 1977; four years before "Physical".

My bad, brain fart/unfinished post on my part. My mother walked in the room while I was typing my post and I am just now seeing I hit submit before completing my thought there. I intended to say Physical was the first song in the 80s to reach 10 weeks at #1, and even it only spent 24 weeks on overall (idk how long YLUML charted), just to point out that even big hits back then did not chart long compared to now. I don't even think BB had recurrent rules for the Hot 100 back then because they really weren't necessary.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2019 20:31:37 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:11:00 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Look, moonlight, you are consistently missing the entire point of "chart watchers don't matter." Your opinion of these things is not relevant to this discussion as your opinion is irrelevant towards Billboard. What you or I think about a song spending 1000 weeks at #1 and 10000 on the chart altogether is moot in this argument. Billboard does not create the chart for you or any of us here. It's not made for the fans or the chart watchers. It's made exclusively for the industry. Us followers are a mere consequence of its existence. So nothing you could possibly say has any merit until you start coming at your argument from that place. Therefore, it is useless to continue engaging with you in this discussion.

Have a Merry Christmas.

I don't know why you're running away

I understand the Hot 100 is made for the industry... which is why I'm saying what I'm saying. You think labels like seeing their songs being demolished on the charts by these 30-50 year old songs?

Labels do not dislike holiday music at all and frankly I don't think they gaf when there are 10 whole other months in which they can release something and achieve maximum chart performance.

This NYT article from 2017 noted that Warner Music actually started advising its labels to not release any albums in December, and that Sia and Gwen Stefani both released Christmas albums in pursuit of an "evergreen" hit like AIWFCIY. To quote the Warner Music exec, "It’s like the world stopped between Dec. 7 and Dec. 28. It’s like people stopped listening to [non-holiday] music." I.e., it's not the Christmas songs being allowed to chart that are 'demolishing' normal releases or making labels run away from the fourth quarter - it's people's active listening habits + streaming now being the dominant form of consumption. Streaming reveals that listeners largely gravitate toward Christmas music at this time while plays for everything else drop.

It is important to remember that charts are the result of what is happening in music, not the catalyst of it. The big Q4 launch worked when people were still buying albums and iTunes gift cards as stocking stuffers, but that's DOA now. If labels have already assessed that new releases aren't making that much money in December and are avoiding Q4 accordingly, why would they really care that Billboard allows Christmas songs to repeatedly re-chart this time of year? It's not like removing them will magically boost regular music consumption.

I do think eventually BB will come up with some rule, but it will probably be an adjustment to the Hot 100's recurrent rules rather than an outright removal of holiday songs altogether. E.g. a song is removed from the chart altogether after X number of weeks of charting, or is only allowed Y number of separate chart runs. And who knows, maybe this will lead to labels/artists recognizing an opportunity to be competitive in a different way - there's a bit of a void in the market of (quality) original Christmas songs with promotional investment and I wouldn't mind if Q4 became an old vs new Christmas songs battle, as opposed to the current old Christmas vs. old non-Christmas thing we have going on now.

[prosandcons]

Dec 18, 2019 0:00:10 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Dec 17, 2019 22:25:43 GMT -5 garrettlen said:

Debby Boone (Pat's daughter) and "You Light Up My Life" was the first single on the Hot 100 to spend 10 weeks at #1 between October and December 1977; four years before "Physical".

My bad, brain fart/unfinished post on my part. My mother walked in the room while I was typing my post and I am just now seeing I hit submit before completing my thought there. I intended to say Physical was the first song in the 80s to reach 10 weeks at #1, and even it only spent 24 weeks on overall (idk how long YLUML charted), just to point out that even big hits back then did not chart long compared to now. I don't even think BB had recurrent rules for the Hot 100 back then because they really weren't necessary.

Physical charted for 26 weeks. You can’t compare the charts back then to now. They’re a completely different beast.

[Au$tin]

Dec 18, 2019 2:33:30 GMT -5 prosandcons said:

Dec 18, 2019 0:00:10 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

My bad, brain fart/unfinished post on my part. My mother walked in the room while I was typing my post and I am just now seeing I hit submit before completing my thought there. I intended to say Physical was the first song in the 80s to reach 10 weeks at #1, and even it only spent 24 weeks on overall (idk how long YLUML charted), just to point out that even big hits back then did not chart long compared to now. I don't even think BB had recurrent rules for the Hot 100 back then because they really weren't necessary.

Physical charted for 26 weeks. You can’t compare the charts back then to now. They’re a completely different beast.

Yes, that's the point of this discussion. Someone had posted that they don't understand how "The Twist" is number one on Billboard's all time list and others responded as to why while giving reasons why multipliers are used because exact weeks can't be compared as is from era to era.

[prosandcons]

Dec 18, 2019 3:04:10 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Dec 18, 2019 2:33:30 GMT -5 prosandcons said:

Physical charted for 26 weeks. You can’t compare the charts back then to now. They’re a completely different beast.

Yes, that's the point of this discussion. Someone had posted that they don't understand how "The Twist" is number one on Billboard's all time list and others responded as to why while giving reasons why multipliers are used because exact weeks can't be compared as is from era to era.

Right. No matter what multipliers you use, you could never accurately create an all time list. Even this decade’s top 100 hits aren’t an even playing field due to how the chart methodology changed during the decade.

[Au$tin]

Dec 18, 2019 4:40:01 GMT -5 prosandcons said:

Dec 18, 2019 3:04:10 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Yes, that's the point of this discussion. Someone had posted that they don't understand how "The Twist" is number one on Billboard's all time list and others responded as to why while giving reasons why multipliers are used because exact weeks can't be compared as is from era to era.

Right. No matter what multipliers you use, you could never accurately create an all time list. Even this decade’s top 100 hits aren’t an even playing field due to how the chart methodology changed during the decade.

Well, Billboard found a way. They have a Top 600 of All Time list. And that is what we were all referring to. Someone wondered how "The Twist" could be #1 on that. They received the answer to that. I'm so confused what you're trying to add to that.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Dec 18, 2019 2:33:30 GMT -5 prosandcons said:

Dec 18, 2019 0:00:10 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

My bad, brain fart/unfinished post on my part. My mother walked in the room while I was typing my post and I am just now seeing I hit submit before completing my thought there. I intended to say Physical was the first song in the 80s to reach 10 weeks at #1, and even it only spent 24 weeks on overall (idk how long YLUML charted), just to point out that even big hits back then did not chart long compared to now. I don't even think BB had recurrent rules for the Hot 100 back then because they really weren't necessary.

Physical charted for 26 weeks. You can’t compare the charts back then to now. They’re a completely different beast.

Yep. They’re more accurate now - but also up for more levels of interpretation.

[forg]

I like the discussion/debate about Christmas songs charting, it has some good insights from both sides. It's definitely better than "this song sucks" type of posts lol

[atg]

Dec 17, 2019 22:57:05 GMT -5 Lukas said:

Dec 17, 2019 22:44:22 GMT -5 atg said:

^ i’m not complaining in fact i think we broke a record of our own here. Most replies in one week

So you'd rather have the threads be like this for the sake of "breaking records?"

I think everyone’s misunderstanding what i was trying to say and i guess some thoughts are better left to be unsaid

[tuna]

Dec 17, 2019 22:41:06 GMT -5 iHype. said:

OT: Blinding Lights falling 40 spots is just as worrying, if not more, than Heartless having that drop. People swore BL was gonna start smashing once his label moved towards it, but the song isn't really sticking out to the public it seems. 

It's just that both heartless and BL are falling on streaming and BL hasn't been sent out to radio. Everyone I know loves the song, it's just not been properly pushed

[violentdreams]

Thinking about Heartless, I feel like this was just not a good time for him to start rolling out an album. Dropping two singles on the week of Black Friday was kind of asking for a relative flop, because heading into December it's way harder to make new music stick around (and Heartless is just not a strong enough song to become an exception to that precedent). As such, I think he can get back on track if he lets Heartless fade into the background and gives Blinding Lights a music video and a radio push after Christmas.

[garrettlen]

Dec 17, 2019 22:53:37 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

45 pages has to be a record for 2019, right?

Very possible.   But it's not even close to being an all time record.   Pretty sure Pulse has had 100+ page Hot 100 threads in the past.

And at least ONE of them had a lot to do with Mariah too.  LOL

[thegreatdivine]

Dec 18, 2019 9:01:34 GMT -5 garrettlen said:

Dec 17, 2019 22:53:37 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

45 pages has to be a record for 2019, right?

Very possible.   But it's not even close to being an all time record.   Pretty sure Pulse has had 100+ page Hot 100 threads in the past.

And at least ONE of them had a lot to do with Mariah too.  LOL

I joined Pulse in 2018, so I wouldn't know about 100+ page threads, but that sounds really wild. This thread almost got to 50 pages and in the right kind of week with the right kind of activity, we could see a thread get to 60/70 pages. Enough people just have to be willing to engage in the discussion(s).

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2019 5:10:03 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Dec 18, 2019 4:40:01 GMT -5 prosandcons said:

Right. No matter what multipliers you use, you could never accurately create an all time list. Even this decade’s top 100 hits aren’t an even playing field due to how the chart methodology changed during the decade.

Well, Billboard found a way. They have a Top 600 of All Time list. And that is what we were all referring to. Someone wondered how "The Twist" could be #1 on that. They received the answer to that. I'm so confused what you're trying to add to that.

Yeah, whether one can create an accurate all-time list is a whole other discussion. All we can say now is that Billboard attempted such a list, came up with a multiplier to keep the older songs from being too disadvantaged, and by doing so gave The Twist a huge and likely an insurmountable advantage. That multiplier didn't even weigh much in favor of the 60s (only 12 songs from 1958-1969 made the all-time 100 and only three of those placed inside the top 20), but The Twist had two wholly separate and full (for its time) runs that literally gave it an almost 2-year shelf life, something even modern longevity beasts cannot claim. It should be #1 on the GOAT Hot 100 list, for that reason alone.

[divasummer]

Dec 17, 2019 22:20:01 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Dec 17, 2019 20:31:37 GMT -5 moonlite said:

I don't know why you're running away

I understand the Hot 100 is made for the industry... which is why I'm saying what I'm saying. You think labels like seeing their songs being demolished on the charts by these 30-50 year old songs?

Exiting a conversation because you understand you're talking with a brick wall who refuses to budge on their stance no matter how much logical reasoning you throw at them is not "running away," miss me with that 12-year-old mentality on debates. But if you absolutely think you're ready to have this discussion from a business standpoint rather than your own personal take on what should or shouldn't be, then I'll bite.

I don't think you realize how much time and effort goes into promoting and ensuring these Christmas songs become annual classics. It's not magical. Do you know how many Christmas songs exist out there? Exponentially more than what is charting. Many of which are originals by A-listers at the time that have long since been forgotten because the effort to continuously push them wasn't enough or made at all. Labels absolutely want to see their hard work be paid off. Likewise, the songs going recurrent because of them simply are no longer being actively promoted by their labels. Khalid is two singles removed from "Talk," Ed Sheeran is a single removed from "Beautiful People," "My Type" has long since ceased its active label push outside of pop radio where it just recently peaked. This list goes on. We're not talking about songs actively growing here. These are dead songs labels have already moved on from up against songs that receive annual support from their respective labels.

I know I've already made this point, but I don't think it got through to you. The music industry doesn't do much this month anyway. Harry Styles's album release is the last big push you're gonna see this year, and even him releasing an album so late into the month is risky and largely unheard of. Radio station program directors are literally gearing up for a 1-2 week vacation, making it difficult for new songs to grow anyway. Consumers are focusing on Christmas music and reflecting on the year's biggest hits en masse. There's no sense for the industry to do much active promotion for anything new. Generally they let their current hits coast and focus on pushing whatever Christmas songs and hits of the year are in their catalogs. They want to see their efforts in that regard reflected on the charts, not songs already falling foundering around or new songs doing basically nothing until January. They don't have any songs being demolished, just songs being removed they weren't checking for anymore anyway.

You both have brought up beautiful points during this thread.
It's just 2 different business heads having 2 different opinions.
I don't know who is right.
It's kind of what you want the Hot 100 to be.
The most popular songs or The most popular songs of the day...
Thank you both for a great debate along with a few other posters.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 17, 2019 23:13:08 GMT -5 tanooki said:

Dec 17, 2019 23:12:19 GMT -5 campbellssoup said:

What’s the problem with so many replies on the thread? That just means it was an eventful week. More posts means more opinions to read about popular music and the charts and that’s exactly what I come here to read.

a lot of s**t talking of a dead kid

That was a few pages earlier in the thread. The last half hasn’t been that, has it?

[renfield75]

Dec 18, 2019 9:05:08 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Dec 18, 2019 9:01:34 GMT -5 garrettlen said:

Very possible.   But it's not even close to being an all time record.   Pretty sure Pulse has had 100+ page Hot 100 threads in the past.

And at least ONE of them had a lot to do with Mariah too.  LOL

I joined Pulse in 2018, so I wouldn't know about 100+ page threads, but that sounds really wild. This thread almost got to 50 pages and in the right kind of week with the right kind of activity, we could see a thread get to 60/70 pages. Enough people just have to be willing to engage in the discussion(s).

There was a legendary thread in 2009 when Mariah's "Obsessed" debuted at number 11 and spent its first three or four weeks there. There was insane hand-wringing about her getting into the top ten, and that's where the phrase "Where will Mimi be?" came from (which still pops up occasionally). The week it finally jumped to number 7 was a huge relief to her fans who wanted it to happen and to everyone else who was sick of hearing about it non-stop for a month. Then of course right after that was the infamous meltdown thread when Mariah's 'Memoirs Of An Imperfect Angel' album was expected to debut at number one and came in at #3 behind Barbra Stresiand and Paramore. Honestly, it was a pretty fun time.